I think Mahns did exceptionally well given he had to deal with a massive basket case of a club that only appointed its list manager a few days before the period began, who happens to be one of the worst cases of little man syndrome I have ever encountered (I used to be neighbors with Peter Bell in Ascot Vale when he was at North, he has always been a f l o g who thinks he's smarter than everyone else).

Did Freo sign Hogan to the 8 years he wanted? I thought I read somewhere it is only a 3 year contract. I really think there was something more to all of this if that is the case.

58 minutes ago, kallangurdemon said:

we got shafted ; simple as that . i agree with Dr D that you would not have to complete a Negotiation 101 Course to get 6 and 23 .We wanted 6 and 5 .What a joke .Overs for Lever unders for Hogan ,what a result .Nice guys come last and that is where we will end up with these children handling negotiations. Im absolutely gutted .

Do you even understand deal making? .

Hogan was gone and Mahoney got us perfect support for gawn who is our marque player. We now have a premiership defence and hogan was never to remain a kpf. We sae tge clubs plan for that in the finals with weid.. KK gives run that we needed. 

JM in my opinion  has delivered goody the keys to success. 

Who gives a toss about wins/losses  in trades. Its the final objectives that matters. I give him an A score. 

What will sadden me next year is watching jesse run around in a ross lyon-coached team. He will lose a couple of years off his career with perth travel as well.

1 hour ago, kallangurdemon said:

we got shafted ; simple as that . i agree with Dr D that you would not have to complete a Negotiation 101 Course to get 6 and 23 .We wanted 6 and 5 .What a joke .Overs for Lever unders for Hogan ,what a result .Nice guys come last and that is where we will end up with these children handling negotiations. Im absolutely gutted .

Spoken like someone with no real understanding of what they would teach in negotiation 101, and who still views all negotiation scenarios as simple distributive bargaining. 

58 minutes ago, kallangurdemon said:

we got shafted ; simple as that . i agree with Dr D that you would not have to complete a Negotiation 101 Course to get 6 and 23 .We wanted 6 and 5 .What a joke .Overs for Lever unders for Hogan ,what a result .Nice guys come last and that is where we will end up with these children handling negotiations. Im absolutely gutted .

Who said Josh asked for 6 & 5? Freo didn't have p5 at that stage. Obviously you have never done a negotiation course where rule #1 says you need to establish your goal and work out how you are going to achieve that goal. The "overs" and "unders" is just noise. There you have just had your first lesson.

 

So its being reported that Essendon and Collingwood both gave up 2x first round draft picks for Shiel and Beams respectively.

We were shafted.

7 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

So its being reported that Essendon and Collingwood both gave up 2x first round draft picks for Shiel and Beams respectively.

We were shafted.

Collingwood gave up Pick 18 and, if they finish high again next year, the same pick in 2019.  We got 6 and 23.  We actually got a better deal than the Pies.

2 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

So its being reported that Essendon and Collingwood both gave up 2x first round draft picks for Shiel and Beams respectively.

We were shafted.

May and kk are 2 first round picks and proven at AFL level, the only question is KK and his concussion issues. The club has been on top of his issues for months.I trust the club with KK

this equates to 2 first round picks (players) with players who have development plus a second round pick. The club wins. Hogan has issues (injury and emotional). Hogan has elite attributes and below average attributes. He also has the most goals from the umpires with free kicks. That wont last.

Josh Mahoney is fantastic! Melbourne have been winning the off field battles ever since Jason Taylor came on board. Thank Mark Neeld for that and Josh Mahoney.

Edited October 17, 20186 yr by Thehardtackler

1 hour ago, deehughman said:

He listens to advice. It’s not just him. He backs those around him. We all wanted to get more for hogan. On reflection we won the lever trade. It seemed like lots but it was less than we thought. We also finished above crows. That’s a win. The trade up Oliver pick, win. The watts trade win.

i reckon may alone will improve our structure in defence a lot. Gives lever the third man up role. That could win us a flag. Kk for nothing. That’s a win. 

We probably lost the hogan trade but we won the rest. But in 12 months or 24 months he would have walked. What else could he do? 

The jury still out on Col Silvia to Freo trade which netted us Bernie Vince. A full preseason and Col could have been anything. 

Was not his best hour by any stretch.

Could we have done better. Probably not. The cards were marked from the moment Bell came on the scene. The trade scenarios are worked months if not more in advance. Bell entering at the last hour disrupted the flow.

A pity.. Hogan's trade had the power to consolidate a dynasty but it was not to be.

Structurally May improves the team but having someone like Hogan surplus to requirements comes along rarely and we didn't really profit from it.

As they say que sera etc  and onwards to 2019

I like the way that he does business. He comes across as a a very straight person to deal with and he gets done what needs to be done.

This years trades will only be able to judged at the earliest at the end of next season.

Overall I believe that we have a good list and if it can stay healthy I think we will give the top 4 a real tilt in 2019.

17 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Collingwood gave up Pick 18 and, if they finish high again next year, the same pick in 2019.  We got 6 and 23.  We actually got a better deal than the Pies.

Exactly Wiseblood. Some of these posters get their ambitions mixed up with their capabilities. We have done VERY well in this trade period. People need to be reminded that Hogan was not invested in us and would most likely been a liability next year. Let him see what it is like playing at Freo. Make up your minds half way through the season. I suspect we will be well in front. We have got what we wanted and look to pick up some useful players in draft with now 2 early 2nd round picks

The Hogan trade values him at pick 2.

The Beams Trade values him at pick 9 (assuming Pies top 4 next year) with the late pick swaps.

Assuming GWS and Bombers both 5-8, Shiel valued at pick 5.

We did better than the Bombers, that's for sure. 

Another year where the FD ticked off all their to do list - A. We have a great list, no doubting it.

rating the hogan trade itself - C+

We could have and should have walked away with a better deal for hogan, 6+11 or next years first. 23, in contract, could be one of the best forwards of his time, should have done better. We then would have had a better pick to go to the draft with.

overall - B.

hurry up 2019

 

25 minutes ago, qarocks said:

We could have and should have walked away with a better deal for hogan, 6+11 or next years first.

Just no. This is numbers-in-a-vacuum thinking.

a) not an open market. As soon as a player nominates a club, that club has the upper hand because it shuts the door on competitive options - though under the circumstances, the only option that could have worked would have been WCE, and they had nothing to offer. Which Fremantle knew full well.

b) Hogan has a serious foot injury

c) Hogan has only one year left on a contract that he has refused to extend. It was take what we could this year, or have even less bargaining power next year trying to keep an out-of-contract player.

Though all of this ignores the importance of getting May (and KK) into the club.

Could hardly have done better maximising Hogan's exit than by using it to recruit May. Kolo is a gamble but if he is over concussion issues then he will bne a good pickup.

Overall we traded in a much needed class key defender, backup ruckman and a classy half back/wingman. All areas of need. 

We have a more balanced list than 2018.

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

So its being reported that Essendon and Collingwood both gave up 2x first round draft picks for Shiel and Beams respectively.

We were shafted.

Either of them have a navicular injury currently and a history of injuries over the last 3 years?

Either of them have rumoured off field issues?

Either of them poor tacklers and poor at defensive pressure?

We weren't shafted. We didn't score a Lachie Weller madness deal, but we weren't shafted. Have a look at how many decent players went for extremely low picks.

1 hour ago, Thrice said:

The Hogan trade values him at pick 2.

The Beams Trade values him at pick 9 (assuming Pies top 4 next year) with the late pick swaps.

Assuming GWS and Bombers both 5-8, Shiel valued at pick 5.

We did better than the Bombers, that's for sure. 

Didn't we pay more for him as an unproven 17 year old?

We seem to (on paper anyway) appear to have undervalued him a little in the Freo trade. I value a proven young gun forward much more highly than a like midfielder as they are rare, take time to come on, and you can build a team around them.

But that doesn't mean we had an unsuccessful trade period. How well we identify the right player to undertaken an identified role and their cultural fit will determine that e.g. Hibberd, and Melksham ended up being a good fit after looking like we paid a little over. We also seem to have done ok with the GC trade.

Congrats to the club for attracting talent like May against other big clubs chasing him

Just keeps getting it done, not bad given we started with no picks to bargain with - cleared the decks, got a few picks and then filled some needed roles (no need for Lewis down back with May in the side). KK  could be a handy rebounder. Preuss was desperately needed to fill the huge vulnerability in Max should he go down. 

With most of the early picks in the draft being midfielders (which we don’t need) rounds 2 should allow us to find a silky fast mover on the wing!

According to a number of posters on this site we always pay overs for players we get in and get unders for players we trade out.

My question is: if that is the case how are we now in a position to have a well balanced, strong list that is confidently predicted to be in the top 4 after the H&A?

People worry too much about what players are worth. No doubt Hogan is a better player than May. But May has more value to us than Hogan. We get KK and 23 as steal knives in a deal that trades a player where we have an excess for a player where we lack.

If May was unavailable I'm sure Mahoney would have negotiated with Freo to the last second. But we had value coming from elsewhere. So He got the deal done and moved on. 

Ultimately, I see it as this.

-we got unders for hogan. i could have lived with 6 and 19 as a minimum. Supporters wouldve been ok with hogan staying.

-  We paid over for may. Yes, he is a gun but will be 27 by round 1 and isn't worth pick 6. Supporters wouldve been okay with using it at the draft. 

KK may not even be best 22, same with preuss so they cant be factored into these trade evaluations.

The only good think Mahoney did was keep vandenberg, everything else he did could have been done by your average demonlander. I honestly think i would've got better deals myself even after slamming down a few long island ice teas on trade morning.

At this point in time, we've lost the Lever deal due to injury. but thats why you dont pay 2 first rounders for a guy who has done his acl before. And thats when he was out of contract and we were in a position of power.

Edited October 17, 20186 yr by Dr.D

2 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

 I honestly think i would've got better deals myself even after slamming down a few long island ice teas on trade morning.

Lay them out for us Neeldy.

This trade period - C+

Overall rating over the years - D