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I think it's time this guy starts getting some recognition. Recruiting managers are vital to the prospect of winning a flag so lets have a look at it.  Keeping in mind that it's easier to get the right pick with higher picks but as we all know you can still get them wrong (Cale Morton, Watts, Tapscott, Strauss, Blease, Maric etc.). Since Jason Taylor joined Melbourne he got off to a rocky start with a bar fight on an overseas footy trip but since has done the following (along with some help of Josh Mahoney at the trade table): 

Brought in: Salem, Hunt, Tyson,  Harmes, Garlett, Frost, Petracca, Brayshaw, Lewis, Hibberd, Neal-Bullen, Oscar Mcdonald, Melksham, Oliver, Hannan, Fritsch, Spargo and Joel Smith.
Potential Misses: Kennedy-harris, Stretch, Weideman, Mitch King, Hullett, Dion Johnstone, Oscar baker. 

Here is his breakdown: 
2013 AFL Draft:
Traded Pick 2 (Josh Kelly) for  Pick 9 and Dom Tyson.
Pick 9: Salem
Players before him:  Kolodjashnij, Aish, Luke mcdonald, Scharenberg.
Players after Salem who we could've taken: Cripps, Zac Jones, Acres, Matt Crouch,  Zac Merrett, Rory Lobb, Nankervis, Barrass, Ben Brown, Fantasia, Sicily. 

Pick 40: Jay Kennedy Harris
Seems to be a bust so far. I actually like him the most times I've seen him but for whatever reason he hasn't made the grade yet. 

Pick 57: Jayden Hunt
Players after Hunt: No successful picks after Hunt.

Rookie Draft: James Harmes
Players available after Harmes: Charlie Cameron and Jake Kelly were the only good rookie selections in that years rookie draft. A lot of busts.  

Draft grading: B 
Salem, Hunt, Harmes and Tyson are all best 22 players with Hunt just out of form and Tyson always having divided supporters. Overall, I think it was a mistake to trade pick 2 but his choices of Hunt and Harmes brought his grading back up. 

2014 AFL draft:
Brought in Jeff Garlett for pick 61 and 79.
Brought in Sam Frost and pick 40 and 53 for the loss of Pick 23


Pick 2: Christian Petracca
Proving to be a gun. Needs to work on his kicking but his overhead marking and spark around the contest is invaluable.  Thankfully Stkilda took Mccartin at 1. 

Pick 3: Angus Brayshaw
Took a while to get going with his concussions but is now proving his worth as an inside mid.

Pick 40: Alex Neal-Bullen
I love this guy. Is a competitor and works really hard. 
Pick 42: Billy Stretch. An outside player who can find the footy. Not a bad depth player.  His kicking needs work but he could become a decent wingman if given the opportunity.  
Pick 53: Oscar Mcdonald: I thought the idea of another McDonald down back would give me a heart condition. His first season and a half was very rocky and his decision making and skills were very ordinary but his confidence is growing and even though he is capable of being a bit slow in mind and pushed off the ball too easily he is playing well this season and making the easy options.

Rookie Draft:
Pick 2: Vandenberg
Pick 20: Mitch White
 

Draft grading: A
Got most of the picks right. Garlett has been a gun for us since being recruited and Oscar Mcdonald is progressing well. 

2015 AFL draft
Brought in Melksham for pick 25
Brought in pick 3, 10 and 43 for pick 6, 29 and following years first round pick



2015 AFL draft
Pick 4: Clayton Oliver
Taylor did place a bid on Sydney swan academy player Callum Mills but Sydney thankfully matched. 

Pick 9: Sam Weideman
Pick 42: Mitch King
Pick 46: Liam Hullett

Rookie Draft:
Pick 6: Wagner
pick 24: Viv Mitchie
Pick 41: Joel Smith

Draft grading: A

If it wasn't for Oliver I would've given this about a C but he got Oliver right and he's going to be a 300 gamer. He was a draft bolter with not as much exposure so it was a great choice. Especially considering the top 10 that year does not look strong: Schache, Aaron Francis, Ah Chee, Weideman and Weitering.  And whilst Parish would have been tempting he hasn't set the world on fire. 

2016 AFL draft: 
Brought in Jordan Lewis for next to nothing
Brought in Michael Hibberd for next to nothing


Pick 46: Mitch Hannan
Pick 64: Dion Johnstone

Rookie Draft: 

Pick 8: Lachlan Filipovic
Pick 25: Tim Smith

Draft Grading: A

I'm giving this an A due to the trading and also for the selection of Mitch Hannan who i rate highly.  Also, the first round pick we traded to boost up the draft the previous year were used on Will Brodie.

2017 AFL Draft:
Brought in Jake Lever for the loss of 2 first round picks
Got rid of Watts for pick 31 who was used on Fritsch
Harley Balic for pick 66.


Pick 29: Charlie Spargo
Pick 31: Bailey Fritsch
Pick 37: Harrison Petty
Pick 48: Oscar Baker


Draft grading: A
Lever is going to be great for us for a long time despite the rocky start. Spargo is proving to be tough and smart with the ball and an accurate kick for goal. Fristch was brought in for Jack Watts which I think should have been given an A+ on that trade alone. I don't want to turn this into a Watts thread but Fritsch is already a far better player than Watts and shows that having a small frame is never an excuse for not attacking the ball or man. Fritsch has complimented our forward line in his first season at the club. 








 

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Nice work, Dr. D.  My only quibble would be that naming Oskar Baker and Weed as 'potential misses' is a tad premature.

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Taylor has done a fantastic job, no doubt.

In an interview a few years ago he said something like - list management is to build the list over the long term, within the context of the coach's game plan and short term list deficiencies.  eg  Roos said a a competitive, elite mid-field was a top priority so that is where Taylor put his best chips in the first few years: Salem, Tyson, Petracca, Brayshaw, Oliver, Vince, (Cross free as an UFA).  Lesser chips on Harmes, ANB, Stretch, Garlett, Hunt, Vandenberg, Bugg.  Lifeline to Jetta. 

With the midfield sorted they were able to add some KPP's - Weideman and Oscar.  At this point we had the core list...we weren't able to get the chip for Lever (but eventually we got our man!). 

When Goodwin started inputting list requirements he was able to specify players to fill out the core list eg more forwards and backs:  Melksham, Hibberd, Lewis and the 2017 recruits.

So, like other successful clubs it is a team effort, when there is a cohesive plan.

That cohesive plan is the key difference pre and post Taylor.  Before that it was random recruiting based on power struggles between CEO, Football Manager, Recruiters and Coach.   And we ended up with a dog's breakfast of a list.  Jackson, Roos and Taylor all came from premiership clubs and they knew what success looks like.  The cohesive plan that all bought into was the foundation for Taylor and co's successes.

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
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Has anyone done the numbers around the draft positionsnof the Lever trade if we finish 2nd or 3rd and the Crows finish 9th-10th?

i did a ladder predictor and I reckon the Crows could miss the 8.

 

 

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Hibbert was not brought in "for next to nothing". He cost us a 2nd rounder (and a swap of later picks). A few good players were taken at that point or later in the draft, such as Tom Stewart for Geelong and Jack Graham/Shai Bolton for Richmond. Of course, none with the experience of Hibberd, but they look to be handy players (arguably). 

Happy to have Pig with us. Some on Demonland thought a 2nd rounder was too much!

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50 minutes ago, demonstone said:

Nice work, Dr. D.  My only quibble would be that naming Oskar Baker and Weed as 'potential misses' is a tad premature.

Yeah, it's not really supposed to be about who we missed out on. Not the point of my thread but I would say that Baker was picked up to be an immediate impact player considering he is an advanced age mature recruit. I agree to early to say on Weideman, that's why I have him as a potential miss as he is a regular at vfl at the moment. 

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http://www.afc.com.au/news/2017-10-12/trade-deal-struck-for-lever

'The Crows have acquired Melbourne’s 2017 first-round draft pick (currently pick No.10), a future first-round pick and a future fourth-round pick.

In exchange Adelaide will send Jake Lever, a second-round pick (currently pick No.35) and a future third-round selection.'

 

We will end up winning this trade easily.  Lever is obviously a star, and Petty (pick 35 in that deal) is the real deal as will soon become apparent...   plus we own Adelaides 3rd rounder in the upcoming draft and another chance for Jason Taylor to find yet another steal.

If we keep on playing well and winning Adelaide will be lucky to get pick 14 in this draft from our first rounder.

Edited by Petraccattack
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32 minutes ago, hells bells said:

Has anyone done the numbers around the draft positionsnof the Lever trade if we finish 2nd or 3rd and the Crows finish 9th-10th?

i did a ladder predictor and I reckon the Crows could miss the 8.

 

 

I think Adelaide's 3rd rounder that we have will be about 36 or 37, which will get pushed back by F/S and academy matching.

They get our 4th rounder, which will be late, so they may not use it.

Our 1st rounder that they have will be 18.

Edited by Moonshadow
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6 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Hibbert was not brought in "for next to nothing". He cost us a 2nd rounder (and a swap of later picks). A few good players were taken at that point or later in the draft, such as Tom Stewart for Geelong and Jack Graham/Shai Bolton for Richmond. Of course, none with the experience of Hibberd, but they look to be handy players (arguably). 

Happy to have Pig with us. Some on Demonland thought a 2nd rounder was too much!


Yah, a mid 2nd rounder and yes you mention Jack Graham/Bolton and Stewart but there were far more busts than makes in that draft. 

After shai bolton, was Mclarty, Begley, Atley, Willem Drew, Declan Watson, Josh Williams, Josh Rotham, Sean Darcy, Josh battle, Brennan Cox, Harrison Macreadie, Kayle Kirby, Tiziani, Jacob Allison, Quinton Narkle, Patrick Kerr, Brad Scheer, Cam Polson etc..the list goes on forever so pick 29 in a draft means that we got him next to nothing in my books. Especially for an AA defender.  

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9 minutes ago, Dr.D said:


Yah, a mid 2nd rounder and yes you mention Jack Graham/Bolton and Stewart but there were far more busts than makes in that draft. 

After shai bolton, was Mclarty, Begley, Atley, Willem Drew, Declan Watson, Josh Williams, Josh Rotham, Sean Darcy, Josh battle, Brennan Cox, Harrison Macreadie, Kayle Kirby, Tiziani, Jacob Allison, Quinton Narkle, Patrick Kerr, Brad Scheer, Cam Polson etc..the list goes on forever so pick 29 in a draft means that we got him next to nothing in my books. Especially for an AA defender.  

Not disagreeing that we got great value for the trade in hindsight, but I highly doubt Taylor or any club would call a 2nd round pick 'nothing'. And Pig wasn't an AA at the time.

We differ in views, no biggie.

 

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Kudos to JT and his team for sure but it would be interesting to stack it up against all clubs as a comparison, in isolation it can be difficult to judge. Judging against the previous fella, well JT could have played pin the tail on the draftee and had a better outcome.

He and his team, have definitely improved our list (plenty of early draft picks does help) but they have whiffed on a couple as well, but every club does. 

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Jason Taylor is recruiting manager, he isn't the mastermind behind the trading in of Lever, Hibberd, Melksham, Lewis and Vince. 

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-06-30/demons-get-creative-and-get-some-stars

Edited by Stretch Johnson
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Taylor has done well.

He must be a very good judge and have good instincts. 

An organisation that recruits well has thorough and clear processes and a transparent approach between recruitment staff and management. Its about matching needs and culture, skill sets etc.  Going the extra yard to ensure the match is right and using common sense and instinct.    

In Melbourne's case, it appears that there is alignment between recruiting staff and the coaching group,  delivering clarity around team needs and what type of player will fill those needs.

Like lots of things going on in the club, there appears to be a unified approach on all things. 

This reflects well on the overall management of the club.  

A well managed club is going to have the right people in the right jobs and have a unified approach on all things including recruitment. A poorly managed club is the opposite. 

.  

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45 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

I think Adelaide's 3rd rounder that we have will be about 36 or 37, which will get pushed back by F/S and academy matching.

They get our 4th rounder, which will be late, so they may not use it.

Our 1st rounder that they have will be 18.

Adelaide third Rounder would be pick 54, pick 36 is second round.

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51 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

Adelaide third Rounder would be pick 54, pick 36 is second round.

Adelaide’s “natural” third round selection is 36 + (19 - their finishing position after finals).

So if they finish 10th it’s 36 + (19 - 10) = 45

Finish 3rd it's 36 + (19 - 3) = 52

Natural = before father/son or academy bidding, ofree agent compensation or priority’s selections.

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The important thing about all of the selections over these 5 years, is that the only ones NOT at the club are White, Hulett and Mitchie, with White still at Casey. 

Even with low picks, Jason is selecting reliable operators, rather than speculative guesses that his predecessor seemed to wallow in.

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Worth watching the movie Draft Day with Kevin Costner. Whilst the movie is fiction you can imagine the competing interests in a club and the effort spent on profiling the draftees 

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He has done a great job but there is always an element of luck with recruiting and as a club we appear to finally be getting some good luck.

The Salem and Tyson trade would be a failure if we utilised pick 2 correctly. However, as we most likely would have taken Billings with pick 2, it is probably an adequate result.

Oliver is an absolute revelation, but if we had pick 1 would we have ended up with Weitering? We also bid on Mills and risked the chance of missing Oliver. Weideman isn't looking like the best pick but with Oliver being the best in the draft it is easier to forgive.

Brayshaw and Petracca both solid selections and it seemed like they were the only ones considered. Would have been interested to see where the club rated De Goey, who is probably slightly ahead.

From looking over the drafts, I am just thankful that we don't have GWS's recruiting team. They have been appalling and are very lucky for their original 17 years olds which netted them some steals (Treloar, Shiel, Cameron)

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Dr.D said:

I think it's time this guy starts getting some recognition. Recruiting managers are vital to the prospect of winning a flag so lets have a look at it.  Keeping in mind that it's easier to get the right pick with higher picks but as we all know you can still get them wrong (Cale Morton, Watts, Tapscott, Strauss, Blease, Maric etc.). Since Jason Taylor joined Melbourne he got off to a rocky start with a bar fight on an overseas footy trip but since has done the following (along with some help of Josh Mahoney at the trade table): 

Brought in: Salem, Hunt, Tyson,  Harmes, Garlett, Frost, Petracca, Brayshaw, Lewis, Hibberd, Neal-Bullen, Oscar Mcdonald, Melksham, Oliver, Hannan, Fritsch, Spargo and Joel Smith.
Potential Misses: Kennedy-harris, Stretch, Weideman, Mitch King, Hullett, Dion Johnstone, Oscar baker. 

Here is his breakdown: 
2013 AFL Draft:
Traded Pick 2 (Josh Kelly) for  Pick 9 and Dom Tyson.
Pick 9: Salem
Players before him:  Kolodjashnij, Aish, Luke mcdonald, Scharenberg.
Players after Salem who we could've taken: Cripps, Zac Jones, Acres, Matt Crouch,  Zac Merrett, Rory Lobb, Nankervis, Barrass, Ben Brown, Fantasia, Sicily. 

Pick 40: Jay Kennedy Harris
Seems to be a bust so far. I actually like him the most times I've seen him but for whatever reason he hasn't made the grade yet. 

Pick 57: Jayden Hunt
Players after Hunt: No successful picks after Hunt.

Rookie Draft: James Harmes
Players available after Harmes: Charlie Cameron and Jake Kelly were the only good rookie selections in that years rookie draft. A lot of busts.  

Draft grading: B 
Salem, Hunt, Harmes and Tyson are all best 22 players with Hunt just out of form and Tyson always having divided supporters. Overall, I think it was a mistake to trade pick 2 but his choices of Hunt and Harmes brought his grading back up. 

2014 AFL draft:
Brought in Jeff Garlett for pick 61 and 79.
Brought in Sam Frost and pick 40 and 53 for the loss of Pick 23


Pick 2: Christian Petracca
Proving to be a gun. Needs to work on his kicking but his overhead marking and spark around the contest is invaluable.  Thankfully Stkilda took Mccartin at 1. 

Pick 3: Angus Brayshaw
Took a while to get going with his concussions but is now proving his worth as an inside mid.

Pick 40: Alex Neal-Bullen
I love this guy. Is a competitor and works really hard. 
Pick 42: Billy Stretch. An outside player who can find the footy. Not a bad depth player.  His kicking needs work but he could become a decent wingman if given the opportunity.  
Pick 53: Oscar Mcdonald: I thought the idea of another McDonald down back would give me a heart condition. His first season and a half was very rocky and his decision making and skills were very ordinary but his confidence is growing and even though he is capable of being a bit slow in mind and pushed off the ball too easily he is playing well this season and making the easy options.

Rookie Draft:
Pick 2: Vandenberg
Pick 20: Mitch White
 

Draft grading: A
Got most of the picks right. Garlett has been a gun for us since being recruited and Oscar Mcdonald is progressing well. 

2015 AFL draft
Brought in Melksham for pick 25
Brought in pick 3, 10 and 43 for pick 6, 29 and following years first round pick



2015 AFL draft
Pick 4: Clayton Oliver
Taylor did place a bid on Sydney swan academy player Callum Mills but Sydney thankfully matched. 

Pick 9: Sam Weideman
Pick 42: Mitch King
Pick 46: Liam Hullett

Rookie Draft:
Pick 6: Wagner
pick 24: Viv Mitchie
Pick 41: Joel Smith

Draft grading: A

If it wasn't for Oliver I would've given this about a C but he got Oliver right and he's going to be a 300 gamer. He was a draft bolter with not as much exposure so it was a great choice. Especially considering the top 10 that year does not look strong: Schache, Aaron Francis, Ah Chee, Weideman and Weitering.  And whilst Parish would have been tempting he hasn't set the world on fire. 

2016 AFL draft: 
Brought in Jordan Lewis for next to nothing
Brought in Michael Hibberd for next to nothing


Pick 46: Mitch Hannan
Pick 64: Dion Johnstone

Rookie Draft: 

Pick 8: Lachlan Filipovic
Pick 25: Tim Smith

Draft Grading: A

I'm giving this an A due to the trading and also for the selection of Mitch Hannan who i rate highly.  Also, the first round pick we traded to boost up the draft the previous year were used on Will Brodie.

2017 AFL Draft:
Brought in Jake Lever for the loss of 2 first round picks
Got rid of Watts for pick 31 who was used on Fritsch
Harley Balic for pick 66.


Pick 29: Charlie Spargo
Pick 31: Bailey Fritsch
Pick 37: Harrison Petty
Pick 48: Oscar Baker


Draft grading: A
Lever is going to be great for us for a long time despite the rocky start. Spargo is proving to be tough and smart with the ball and an accurate kick for goal. Fristch was brought in for Jack Watts which I think should have been given an A+ on that trade alone. I don't want to turn this into a Watts thread but Fritsch is already a far better player than Watts and shows that having a small frame is never an excuse for not attacking the ball or man. Fritsch has complimented our forward line in his first season at the club. 








 

I think you can attribute the kids to him but the experienced players from other clubs is Josh Mahoney and Todd Vineys domain.

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56 minutes ago, Watts the matter said:

He has done a great job but there is always an element of luck with recruiting and as a club we appear to finally be getting some good luck.

The Salem and Tyson trade would be a failure if we utilised pick 2 correctly. However, as we most likely would have taken Billings with pick 2, it is probably an adequate result.

Oliver is an absolute revelation, but if we had pick 1 would we have ended up with Weitering? We also bid on Mills and risked the chance of missing Oliver. Weideman isn't looking like the best pick but with Oliver being the best in the draft it is easier to forgive.

Brayshaw and Petracca both solid selections and it seemed like they were the only ones considered. Would have been interested to see where the club rated De Goey, who is probably slightly ahead.

From looking over the drafts, I am just thankful that we don't have GWS's recruiting team. They have been appalling and are very lucky for their original 17 years olds which netted them some steals (Treloar, Shiel, Cameron)

 

 

 

 

 

Adequate is putting it mildly, Billings is a 🥔 

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Has been great for the Club, that said, this is the sort of craft that would get easier the longer you stay at the chosen spot.

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1 hour ago, Demons11 said:

I think you can attribute the kids to him but the experienced players from other clubs is Josh Mahoney and Todd Vineys domain.

i agree but Taylor would have a big say too. mahoney and co. wouldn't go around trading picks away without knowing the draft pool back to front

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3 hours ago, Watts the matter said:

 

The Salem and Tyson trade would be a failure if we utilised pick 2 correctly. However, as we most likely would have taken Billings with pick 2, it is probably an adequate result.

 

What makes you think we would have taken Billings? Roos was big on big bodied midfielders at the time and I once pointed out that we might have taken the Bont.

@Vogon Poetry had a very good theory that we would have taken Sharenberg at 3. Cant quite remember why he thought that, but it had me convinced.

 

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    And BOG for St. Kilda in last night’s game at Marvel Stadium? It was Melbourne!  This brilliant contributor managed to be the initiator of 13.7 in turnovers for the side, and resulted in a come from behind victory for the mighty Saints. That’s it folks, Melbourne have set a new record for the most turnovers resulting in opposition scores. Despite leading half way through the final quarter (yet again) the Demons managed to right themselves and deliver the ball directly to the opposition

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    AINT THAT A CRYING SHAME by The Oracle

    It’s a crying shame that we happen to be playing against the resurgent St Kilda just as they have managed to overcome a rotten patch of form with an upsurge in momentum resulting from the sacking of its coach and the appointment of a new one.    The Saints had a purple patch at the start of the season winning four of their first five games (including the one against the sloppy and sluggish Demons in Round 5) before collapsing into the sink hole that led to them parting ways with coach Alan

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

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