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Dr.D

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2 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

Ultimately, I see it as this.

-we got unders for hogan. i could have lived with 6 and 19 as a minimum. Supporters wouldve been ok with hogan staying.

-  We paid over for may. Yes, he is a gun but will be 27 by round 1 and isn't worth pick 6. Supporters wouldve been okay with using it at the draft. 

KK may not even be best 22, same with preuss so they cant be factored into these trade evaluations.

The only good think Mahoney did was keep vandenberg, everything else he did could have been done by your average demonlander. I honestly think i would've got better deals myself even after slamming down a few long island ice teas on trade morning.

At this point in time, we've lost the Lever deal due to injury. but thats why you dont pay 2 first rounders for a guy who has done his acl before. 

Your opinion. Strangely with the current recruiting /trade team our side has improved yearly, finished top 4 this year and is now a favorite for next years flag. My opinion is that they are going OK. I suppose the difference is that the results I measure are based on the ladder  not chest beating rites at the trade table.

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7 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

Ultimately, I see it as this.

-we got unders for hogan. i could have lived with 6 and 19 as a minimum. Supporters wouldve been ok with hogan staying.

-  We paid over for may. Yes, he is a gun but will be 27 by round 1 and isn't worth pick 6. Supporters wouldve been okay with using it at the draft. 

KK may not even be best 22, same with preuss so they cant be factored into these trade evaluations.

The only good think Mahoney did was keep vandenberg, everything else he did could have been done by your average demonlander. I honestly think i would've got better deals myself even after slamming down a few long island ice teas on trade morning.

At this point in time, we've lost the Lever deal due to injury. but thats why you dont pay 2 first rounders for a guy who has done his acl before. And thats when he was out of contract and we were in a position of power.

You really are kidding if you think anyone on demonland could have done a better job, what qualifications do you have to run an afl football department, talk about delusional.

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2 minutes ago, kallangurdemon said:

May is not more value to us than Hogan .  May is a solid defender.Hogan is player we could have built a premiership challenge around ,That opportunity is lost .

Not if he wants to be in Perth...

All the could of's in the world won't make it different.

Nothing to do with Mahoney and the job he's doing, made the most of the situation, stabilised things and set the team up for premiership success.

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My 2017/2018 assessment:

Last year should have got Lever for a first round and future second round pick (IMO) which would have given us our first rounder this year (14?) to play with to work our way into a May deal and not have to enter into a Hogan fire-sale.

Yeah, Mahony plays a straight bat and doesn't muck around, which is ok, but the effects compound down the line.

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21 minutes ago, General Malaise said:

My 2017/2018 assessment:

Last year should have got Lever for a first round and future second round pick (IMO) which would have given us our first rounder this year (14?) to play with to work our way into a May deal and not have to enter into a Hogan fire-sale.

Yeah, Mahony plays a straight bat and doesn't muck around, which is ok, but the effects compound down the line.

All sounds good in theory but we would have had something like pick 16 this year and GC were not going to sell May for that.

Collingwood would have loved May but they couldn't get into the game with a low first rounder.

May would probably be at the Dogs now if we didn't have the Hogan pick to trade.

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11 hours ago, Demons1858 said:

Didn't we pay more for him as an unproven 17 year old?

How is giving up one first round pick and having pick 13 slide to pick 20 paying more than receiving picks 6 and 23 ?

It's a flawed way of thinking anyway.  What you pay for something is irrelevant to the market when you go to sell it six years later.

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I rate him and the rest of the team highly. Hogan's manager said if Melbourne were in Perth he would be with us. What is implicit in that statement is that we have built (Mahony especially) an environment that players want to be in which will help us retain our talent. He deals with people honestly. Every year i am bemused by the value placed on the number of the trade as experience tells us its the outcome that is important. Mahony and Co are outcome focused.  

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2 hours ago, General Malaise said:

My 2017/2018 assessment:

Last year should have got Lever for a first round and future second round pick (IMO) which would have given us our first rounder this year (14?) to play with to work our way into a May deal and not have to enter into a Hogan fire-sale.

Yeah, Mahony plays a straight bat and doesn't muck around, which is ok, but the effects compound down the line.

Maybe, but getting the deals done for the list compounds UP the line.  Fail to get a deal done because you play hard ball and the list is a year behind.  Sure we could've risked waiting for May as FA next year but it pushes REAL on-field results another year down the track.

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Some of us are starting to understand what trading is about. It's not what you give up but what you bring to your list and how you build that list that counts. On that score Mahoney's done as well as anyone - no make that better than anyone - since the draft was introduced.

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I rate Josh and his team extremely highly our club just keeps getting better and stronger and even though we know that JH was worth a bit more, the other side weren't prepared to pay to our values. Despite that (MFC) have ended up strengthening the three area's  where we were most exposed and improved our Draft order at the same time.There were no shenanigan's with our team no storming out like spoiled brats only to have to come back into the negotiations with their tails between their legs. Our Team was professional and Effective.

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15 hours ago, Docs Demons said:

Exactly Wiseblood. Some of these posters get their ambitions mixed up with their capabilities. We have done VERY well in this trade period. People need to be reminded that Hogan was not invested in us and would most likely been a liability next year. Let him see what it is like playing at Freo. Make up your minds half way through the season. I suspect we will be well in front. We have got what we wanted and look to pick up some useful players in draft with now 2 early 2nd round picks

I agree, just the fact that Jesse wanted to go to Freo proves he doesn't have that voracious hunger for a premiership. Freo would have known he was coming home this year or next, we've done quite well!

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1 hour ago, Robbie57 said:

I rate him and the rest of the team highly. Hogan's manager said if Melbourne were in Perth he would be with us. What is implicit in that statement is that we have built (Mahony especially) an environment that players want to be in which will help us retain our talent. He deals with people honestly. Every year i am bemused by the value placed on the number of the trade as experience tells us its the outcome that is important. Mahony and Co are outcome focused.  

Agreed.

Also, reaffirming to see May's comments about Goodwin.

May's comments that when he met Goodwin he decided that Melbourne was the club for him, is yet another story that confirms that Goodwin is making his mark on players and the footy world.

Early in the year, I was concerned about Goodwin's coaching style, but it looks that I could not be more wrong.

The players love Goodwin and want to play for him and the club.

And the media are on board. See back page of the HUN.   

What a difference 12 months makes.

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5 minutes ago, deeology said:

I agree, just the fact that Jesse wanted to go to Freo proves he doesn't have that voracious hunger for a premiership. Freo would have known he was coming home this year or next, we've done quite well!

I've seen this argument raised and I'm not so sure that it stands up.

I just think after what Jessie has been through with the death of his father and his own brush with mortality that his mind will still be a bit scattered.

When things like this happen trite statements like "it's only a game", "makes you think what really matters" etc...get trotted out and it's hard to think through clearly. You actually start to believe it.

Missing the finals after what he has been through would have been shattering in itself, he's been around long enough to experience some of the hard times. Then he watches his mates out there playing and winning finals and he's not a part of it.

Why wouldn't he want that experience? why wouldn't he want to stay?

I don't think even he could really tell you that.

He might not have a hunger for the game at the moment, he might never get it back.

He certainly had that mean competitive streak early in his career.

I don't see this move being about not having a voracious hunger for a flag, I don't think it proves anything.

Anyway, enough of Jessie.

He's not our player anymore and I hope we smash him and every other non MFC player/club....

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15 minutes ago, rjay said:

I've seen this argument raised and I'm not so sure that it stands up.

I just think after what Jessie has been through with the death of his father and his own brush with mortality that his mind will still be a bit scattered.

When things like this happen trite statements like "it's only a game", "makes you think what really matters" etc...get trotted out and it's hard to think through clearly. You actually start to believe it.

Missing the finals after what he has been through would have been shattering in itself, he's been around long enough to experience some of the hard times. Then he watches his mates out there playing and winning finals and he's not a part of it.

Why wouldn't he want that experience? why wouldn't he want to stay?

I don't think even he could really tell you that.

He might not have a hunger for the game at the moment, he might never get it back.

He certainly had that mean competitive streak early in his career.

I don't see this move being about not having a voracious hunger for a flag, I don't think it proves anything.

Anyway, enough of Jessie.

He's not our player anymore and I hope we smash him and every other non MFC player/club....

Good insights RJ. 

Injury aside, i expect significant improvement from Jesse. 

He has a lot to prove to the footy world particularly in Perth. If he hits early form, he will be a hero to the Freo fans.

You would expect him to be settled and happy, and be in a good head space.

This will give him every chance to focus on his footy and allow him to hit his straps. 

Less likely that this would have happened at Melbourne.

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18 minutes ago, rjay said:

I've seen this argument raised and I'm not so sure that it stands up.

I just think after what Jessie has been through with the death of his father and his own brush with mortality that his mind will still be a bit scattered.

When things like this happen trite statements like "it's only a game", "makes you think what really matters" etc...get trotted out and it's hard to think through clearly. You actually start to believe it.

Missing the finals after what he has been through would have been shattering in itself, he's been around long enough to experience some of the hard times. Then he watches his mates out there playing and winning finals and he's not a part of it.

Why wouldn't he want that experience? why wouldn't he want to stay?

I don't think even he could really tell you that.

He might not have a hunger for the game at the moment, he might never get it back.

He certainly had that mean competitive streak early in his career.

I don't see this move being about not having a voracious hunger for a flag, I don't think it proves anything.

Anyway, enough of Jessie.

He's not our player anymore and I hope we smash him and every other non MFC player/club....

I wasn't knocking Jesse for the choices he has made and everything you highlighted is exactly what has bought me to this conclusion.

Everybody deals with life differently but I have a pretty good idea how he feels as I lost 2 close friends in a car accident when I was in my teens and then lost my father when I was in my early 20s. And your spot on; sometimes it's just really hard to care about anything, especially an insignificant game of footy. That feeling can appear out of nowhere, at any time. 

I personally think that Jesse has handled himself magnificently this year. His body language (which so many posters pot him for) has been a massive improvement on last year. Only fools with NFI would be critical of him for that anyway. 

I was mainly trying to say that going home was his main priority not a premiership. I don't begrudge him for that.

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16 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Good insights RJ. 

Injury aside, i expect significant improvement from Jesse. 

He has a lot to prove to the footy world particularly in Perth. If he hits early form, he will be a hero to the Freo fans.

You would expect him to be settled and happy, and be in a good head space.

This will give him every chance to focus on his footy and allow him to hit his straps. 

Less likely that this would have happened at Melbourne.

He maybe back home, but Goodwin vs Ross the Boss? Only time will tell.

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2 hours ago, Robbie57 said:

I rate him and the rest of the team highly. Hogan's manager said if Melbourne were in Perth he would be with us. What is implicit in that statement is that we have built (Mahony especially) an environment that players want to be in which will help us retain our talent. He deals with people honestly. Every year i am bemused by the value placed on the number of the trade as experience tells us its the outcome that is important. Mahony and Co are outcome focused.  

I judge trading and drafting by one number - the final ladder position each year. By that measure, Josh Mahoney - if that is who is responsible - has been outstanding. All the other numbers, such as draft numbers and academy points (is that a thing?) are just metrics which provide general guidance.

 

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4 hours ago, General Malaise said:

My 2017/2018 assessment:

Last year should have got Lever for a first round and future second round pick (IMO) which would have given us our first rounder this year (14?) to play with to work our way into a May deal and not have to enter into a Hogan fire-sale.

Yeah, Mahony plays a straight bat and doesn't muck around, which is ok, but the effects compound down the line.

I think he was too open earlier in the week about: a) what we wanted for Hogan and b) the fact we couldn't get May without Hogan going. It painted us into a corner. 

But I guess that is his style and clubs generally have dealt well with us. GC were pretty patient its just that short statured person from Freo that was a complete muppet

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Yes, we got may. But any reason why we didnt demand 2 first rounders from freo and then offer the extra first rounder and a future first rounder for shiel? 

we couldve easily brought in shiel and hogan. and if freo didnt cough up 2 first rounders then we keep hogan and we're at no loss. mahoney couldve done a lot better.

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8 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

Yes, we got may. But any reason why we didnt demand 2 first rounders from freo and then offer the extra first rounder and a future first rounder for shiel? 

we couldve easily brought in shiel and hogan. and if freo didnt cough up 2 first rounders then we keep hogan and we're at no loss. mahoney couldve done a lot better.

movies no annoyed michael keaton how about no GIF

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6 hours ago, kallangurdemon said:

May is not more value to us than Hogan .  May is a solid defender.Hogan is player we could have built a premiership challenge around ,That opportunity is lost .

I see what your saying and when he was drafted I would agree with you but now I would argue the plan has been building a premiership around Gawn particularly for the last year or 2, not Hogan. He's our best player by streets. And has a strong support cast in Oliver Viney Brayshaw, Harmes etc to suit that plan. Anything Hogan provided up forward was a bonus.

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