Post Match Discussion - Round 3

[picket fence 18,064]

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Yeh sure.

The reality for Lever is that he's walked into a team whose weakness is its defence. Adelaide have Talia and Hartigan as two key backmen. They're strong, mature bodies who are experienced one-on-one players and give so much confidence to the rest of their unit. We have a baby giraffe playing as a key defender at the minute in one of the most aggressive defensive zones in the entire AFL. There are a whole lot of problems with our defensive unit and I can't be bothered going into them.

Because of our 'system' and the lack of confidence our defenders have in Oscar's ability to beat his man, we seem to nearly always have too many defenders going up in a contest to try and spoil when it really only needs to be one. That player should be Lever. As a team whose traded for the best young intercept defender in the game, we are doing him no justice by the way our defensive unit is currently structured and playing.

As for his individual performance and execution of the basics, I am happy to admit he has been well down on what I expected and he's definitely been disappointing in that area to date. Yet among the disappointing elements to his game on Sunday, he also showcased some skills that not many his age possess. 

The good thing for him is that he has money in the bank. We've all seen what he's capable of. And I'm not in the slightest bit worried about his form or ability. I'm more concerned about the way we're playing as an entire defensive unit including our undersized key backs in Frost and Oscar. One doesn't possess the footballing smarts to play as a key defender in our particular zone. And the other is a slow to react key defender playing in an aggressive zone that requires players to move and react quickly and be strong and aggressive in the contest.

I can see Oscar being a decent one-on-one player down the track in a defensive unit that plays much tighter to their opponent. But there's no way he's suited to the way we're playing now. Likewise Lever. Although I'm more confident he has the ability to play in our zone than Oscar's.

IMV We will not win a final with Oscar and Lever in the team. In all honesty I reckon Lever is not at all suited to our defensive structures and so IMV I reckon he will struggle. Happy to be proven wrong but I have serious doubts.

[Delusional demon 82 1,197]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I disagree I think he has a soft spot for us as he is nothing if not a student of the history of the game. He appreciates the 50s/60s rivalry even if the rest of their supporters couldnt give a stuff. I just found it interesting. Once I heard him say "the Melbourne side" I couldn't stop hearing it.

I think he’s just channeling the great Lou Richards commentating style , a bit of old school from Edward 

 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,459]

2 minutes ago, Delusional demon 82 said:

I think he’s just channeling the great Lou Richards commentating style , a bit of old school from Edward 

 

Yes that could be it - I should say I find d Eddie to be one of if not the best commentators going when he's not near a Collingwood game or referring to Collingwood players. He has a sense of theatre, history and genuinely loves the game and it's history including the history of all clubs. 

His fixation with Daw yesterday was a bit strange though 

[Pennant St Dee 13,414]

1 hour ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Yeh sure.

The reality for Lever is that he's walked into a team whose weakness is its defence. Adelaide have Talia and Hartigan as two key backmen. They're strong, mature bodies who are experienced one-on-one players and give so much confidence to the rest of their unit. We have a baby giraffe playing as a key defender at the minute in one of the most aggressive defensive zones in the entire AFL. There are a whole lot of problems with our defensive unit and I can't be bothered going into them.

Because of our 'system' and the lack of confidence our defenders have in Oscar's ability to beat his man, we seem to nearly always have too many defenders going up in a contest to try and spoil when it really only needs to be one. That player should be Lever. As a team whose traded for the best young intercept defender in the game, we are doing him no justice by the way our defensive unit is currently structured and playing.

As for his individual performance and execution of the basics, I am happy to admit he has been well down on what I expected and he's definitely been disappointing in that area to date. Yet among the disappointing elements to his game on Sunday, he also showcased some skills that not many his age possess. 

The good thing for him is that he has money in the bank. We've all seen what he's capable of. And I'm not in the slightest bit worried about his form or ability. I'm more concerned about the way we're playing as an entire defensive unit including our undersized key backs in Frost and Oscar. One doesn't possess the footballing smarts to play as a key defender in our particular zone. And the other is a slow to react key defender playing in an aggressive zone that requires players to move and react quickly and be strong and aggressive in the contest.

I can see Oscar being a decent one-on-one player down the track in a defensive unit that plays much tighter to their opponent. But there's no way he's suited to the way we're playing now. Likewise Lever. Although I'm more confident he has the ability to play in our zone than Oscar's.

Not bad but our defensive unit is also exposing the deficiencies in Levers game which I have no doubt he is good enough to fix. 

Oscar has far more ability to play one on one than Lever so it's not a case of one being more suited to the zone. They can both compliment each other.

Frost has been the biggest offender in going 3rd man up when he shouldn't for the last 2 seasons 

[Delusional demon 82 1,197]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yes that could be it - I should say I find d Eddie to be one of if not the best commentators going when he's not near a Collingwood game or referring to Collingwood players. He has a sense of theatre, history and genuinely loves the game and it's history including the history of all clubs. 

His fixation with Daw yesterday was a bit strange though 

Agreed Dr , he definitely knows and respects the history of the game  

 

[buck_nekkid 6,082]

Why is there only Q1,2 and 4 replays available on AFL site?  If anything, I thought they would want to hide the umpiring in the first!

 

any ideas where I can access Q3?

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

2 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

 

The MFC hierarchy need to approach the AFL for a "please explain'' on the above mystifying decision.  Imagine this in a final or GF and it's was a potential match winning mark for the win or sealer.

If we let the above go we are going to be on the receiving end of more rubbish like this from at least the umpire in question, No.26

Wow. That is the first time i have seen that

Yep the club needs full clarification on that piece of ridiculous Comedy. 

No wonder Umpires get a hard time

[ding 5,126]

6 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

Why is there only Q1,2 and 4 replays available on AFL site?  If anything, I thought they would want to hide the umpiring in the first!

 

any ideas where I can access Q3?

I watched all 4 QTRS today so i dont know why you cant find the 3rd...

(checked again and im streaming the 3rd from AFL site as i type this)

Edited April 8, 2018 by ding

[DubDee 26,390]

Poor decisions on both sides. Didn’t think they favoured north or us

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, picket fence said:

I have never done facebook, After all who would want my face on their Book!!!??

DSM5 perhaps?

[Deemented Are Go! 3,704]

1 hour ago, Skuit said:

He called him 'a specimen of a man'. And you could almost hear his blood pressure drop wondering if the butchered phrase would see him back in hot water.

As to @Dr. Gonzo's question re. the 'Melbourne club'  - I think Eddie is just a canny marketeer and is emphasizing the blue-blooded angle. I recall he even dropped in a few rib-ticklers of the nature.

Eddie also went on with a ‘tarzan’ comparison- I think the phrase ‘if you look like Tarzan don’t play like Jane’.

i could imagine the mouse turning the wheel in his little brain : Majak....jungle....Tarzan.....

Like you said, I reckon he panicked and made a disclaimer along the lines of ‘well in the AFLW they sure don’t play like Janes’...

oops, be careful again, Eddie! 

His subconscious managed to merge racism and sexism into one thought pattern before the mouse pulled the handbrake: ‘put down the shovel Eddie’! 

 

And yes yes he made a few MFC jibes  including when Dees fans were cheering for whatever, he said ‘listen to the Melbourne fans, and that just their jewellery rattling!’. 

 

 

Wait, Eddie, wait...I’m not done holding my sides. 

Ya JACKASS 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Deemented Are Go!

[binman 44,689]

11 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

You need super smart and quick reacting key backs for that. Oscar and Frost are a nightmare. ..... and Lever is in no-mans land because of the utter chaos it is back there when the ball come in.

Really? Fair dinkum, you should just man up and admit you got it wrong. Very, Wrong.

T'macs younger brother has been  our best defender this year, with Hibberd being the only one close. Which of course would be of no surprise to the coaching staff, me, or for that matter any one who has the ability to assess a young players ability and ceiling.

Didn't have his best game yesterday but was pretty good. As is the norm used the ball really well and dis his customary clever things. 

Was beaten twice in the air by Brown. Which happens. Defenders get out marked. Just ask Lever, who loses one on ones to debut players and small forwards. I had to laugh though because both times not one player came to help out in the air. Wasn't that what we got got Captain Zone man for? To float in and 'kill' the ball, Rance like. Sheez.

As i have said - and offered to bet on (but heard crickets) - he will play every game this season, bar injury and be a 200 game demon. Not AFL standard? You should be embarrassed by that comment. 

And ' Lever is in no-mans land because of the utter chaos it is back there when the ball come in"? Are you trolling? You're giving him a free pass because of the 'utter chaos' caused by his team mates. Please. He has been the single biggest cause of defensive problems this year. Kicks to the opposition, gets caught with the ball, doesn't go when he should, gets killed in the air and even when we bring in Frost doesn't really get to extra contests and impact on them.

And please don't get me wrong. Lever is a terrific player, will be a star and i'm thrilled we have him. But remember he and Tmac's younger brother are almost exactly the same age, have played almost exactly the same number of games and both have been defenders. But whilst Lever had the luxury of playing zone man in a top 4 side with players the ilk of Talia doing the heavy lifting, Tmac's younger brother has had to to leatn his craft in a team that until recently gets beaten more often that not with TMac being the only big key support. 

Tmac's younger brother has had the job on the key forward of the three opponents this year, with Hawkins and Brown among them. Next week he'll get Roughy.  Lever has been given pretty easy assignments for a player of his ability. One player has struggled. And its not the one you think is nightmare.

 

[Demon Dynasty 17,135]

41 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Poor decisions on both sides. Didn’t think they favoured north or us

It was a number of  "non-decisions" which should have gone our way inside 30 or so Dub.  Not so much decisions that were made.  No.26 in particular refused to pay holding against Norf players pulling the ball in, sitting over the ball or being dragged off the ball after going to ground, all without a genuine attempt to get rid of it, in or around our goals.  I am speaking of the Punt Rd end only.  I could not see what was happening at the City end.

You might wish to review the mystery free kick against Fritsch above.  No.26 called this miracle "get out of jail" for Norf as well.

[Redleg 42,044]

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Yeh sure.

The reality for Lever is that he's walked into a team whose weakness is its defence. Adelaide have Talia and Hartigan as two key backmen. They're strong, mature bodies who are experienced one-on-one players and give so much confidence to the rest of their unit. We have a baby giraffe playing as a key defender at the minute in one of the most aggressive defensive zones in the entire AFL. There are a whole lot of problems with our defensive unit and I can't be bothered going into them.

Because of our 'system' and the lack of confidence our defenders have in Oscar's ability to beat his man, we seem to nearly always have too many defenders going up in a contest to try and spoil when it really only needs to be one. That player should be Lever. As a team whose traded for the best young intercept defender in the game, we are doing him no justice by the way our defensive unit is currently structured and playing.

As for his individual performance and execution of the basics, I am happy to admit he has been well down on what I expected and he's definitely been disappointing in that area to date. Yet among the disappointing elements to his game on Sunday, he also showcased some skills that not many his age possess. 

The good thing for him is that he has money in the bank. We've all seen what he's capable of. And I'm not in the slightest bit worried about his form or ability. I'm more concerned about the way we're playing as an entire defensive unit including our undersized key backs in Frost and Oscar. One doesn't possess the footballing smarts to play as a key defender in our particular zone. And the other is a slow to react key defender playing in an aggressive zone that requires players to move and react quickly and be strong and aggressive in the contest.

I can see Oscar being a decent one-on-one player down the track in a defensive unit that plays much tighter to their opponent. But there's no way he's suited to the way we're playing now. Likewise Lever. Although I'm more confident he has the ability to play in our zone than Oscar's.

Oscar has conceded one goal in 3 games where he was beaten in a contest. 

Hawkins was goalless, Hipwood got one when on the ball and Brown got a few from soft frees and only one in a contest with Oscar. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

There is some interesting discussion going on here after this win.  Who would have thought, back in 2013, that we would have some gripes over a 6 goal win against a side we have struggled against for over a decade?

Times change, and so do the expectations.  While I'm happy with the win and even happier to get the monkey off our back, I understand where others are coming from.  Our expectations for this side have gone from hoping we can be competitive right through to wanting us to be the dominant side when it counts.  We aren't just looking for a good effort, or a lucky win - we are looking for us to be ruthless as a side and do what we should be doing, which is winning games and winning them well.

While some feel some trepidation about our progress, I really don't think we're too far away from everything clicking.  We've had to manage without two of our best players while integrating a new one in to the back line.  We've had to re-jig the forward line as well in Tom McDonald's absence and we're still looking for the most effective method.  

All in all, we are getting closer to hitting some really good form.  Our effort levels are good, our ability to win the ball has been good and we've really improved our ability to get the ball inside 50. It wasn't too long ago that we really struggled to get the ball inside 50 and now we're getting it in at a high rate.  We just need to sort things out down back with our zone and begin to lower our eyes a little more and show some composure when going forward.

I'm excited for the rest of the season, but I'm also in the same camp as those who are right in having higher expectations for the footy club.

[Demon Dynasty 17,135]

Backline is far from perfect (most always will be) and Lever needs to clean up his disposal / decision making (with the FD helping here, hopefully learning their lesson and not having him kicking in for some time).

But it's starting to take shape.  You can see it unfolding slowly and once they've  played a fair bit of footy together and the trust starts to ingrain itself amongst the players it will be very hard backline to beat and counter (on the rebound).  Is already starting to show signs.  Some hic ups ahead no doubt but we are on track and it will handle most set ups the opp throws our way with a bit more experience and time together.

The coaching dept would be quietly licking their chops at the way this end is starting to come together me thinks!

Edited April 8, 2018 by Rusty Nails

[chook fowler 19,734]

Wagner needs to be given some credit for his form this year. Has become really solid down back and much better with his disposal. He looks much more composed and seems to have cemented his place.

[DistrACTION Jackson 10,409]

18 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

There is some interesting discussion going on here after this win.  Who would have thought, back in 2013, that we would have some gripes over a 6 goal win against a side we have struggled against for over a decade?

Times change, and so do the expectations.  While I'm happy with the win and even happier to get the monkey off our back, I understand where others are coming from.  Our expectations for this side have gone from hoping we can be competitive right through to wanting us to be the dominant side when it counts.  We aren't just looking for a good effort, or a lucky win - we are looking for us to be ruthless as a side and do what we should be doing, which is winning games and winning them well.

While some feel some trepidation about our progress, I really don't think we're too far away from everything clicking.  We've had to manage without two of our best players while integrating a new one in to the back line.  We've had to re-jig the forward line as well in Tom McDonald's absence and we're still looking for the most effective method.  

All in all, we are getting closer to hitting some really good form.  Our effort levels are good, our ability to win the ball has been good and we've really improved our ability to get the ball inside 50. It wasn't too long ago that we really struggled to get the ball inside 50 and now we're getting it in at a high rate.  We just need to sort things out down back with our zone and begin to lower our eyes a little more and show some composure when going forward.

I'm excited for the rest of the season, but I'm also in the same camp as those who are right in having higher expectations for the footy club.

Totally agree with this Wiseblood.

While I'm happy with the win, I'm also not getting too excited as it was only North Melbourne. It seems the players also view it this way which is nice to see and I think as the side matures and becomes used to winning it will just be another game, another win, onto bigger things.

While I acknowledge we have a lot of room to improve, it's important to note that every single side in the competition is in the same boat, even the undefeated Power who almost lost at home to the Lions! I think because w focus so much on our own side, we fail to see the deficiencies in our opponents. We are definitely not at our best, however we are in 4th spot with a health percentage.

The next 4 weeks are huge for this club, starting with the Hawks this Sunday. Win that game and we are up to our necks in it this season. Go Dees!

[Engorged Onion 10,224]

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

IMV We will not win a final with Oscar and Lever in the team. In all honesty I reckon Lever is not at all suited to our defensive structures and so IMV I reckon he will struggle. Happy to be proven wrong but I have serious doubts.

Plenty of teams win GRAND finals with average players - lookin' at you Mitch Morton, Nathan Ablett, Dion Prestia

[Demon_JB 1,389]

2 minutes ago, Danelska said:

Plenty of teams win GRAND finals with average players - lookin' at you Mitch Morton, Nathan Ablett, Dion Prestia

And Grimes, Townsend, Butler, Mcintosh, Castagna, Caddy, Broad, Vlastuin, Grigg and Lambert.

[pineapple dee 2,892]

8 minutes ago, juzzk1d said:

And Grimes, Townsend, Butler, Mcintosh, Castagna, Caddy, Broad, Vlastuin, Grigg and Lambert.

I'll have Castagna out of that lot in a heartbeat. Could easily kick 2 or 3 goals in a game without surprising, is strong in the air for a smaller player and has a ton of courage. In two or three years he will be in the top 6 players at Richmond.

[Dee Zephyr 19,290]

North were fancied by many as bottom 2 but after watching the replay, North actually played well against us yet we walked away with a 6 goal win.

From what we have seen so far there are teams that have displayed far worse performances than North. 

Still early and all that but our win yesterday was better than I first thought, IMO.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Demon77

[Ethan Tremblay 31,271]

I just watched the replay. Jeez Petracca was bloody good, his leg and core strength is amazing, he just can’t be taken to the ground. I’m not big on comparing players but he reminds me of Dusty, just with better hair and handsome. 

Edited April 8, 2018 by Ethan Tremblay

[binman 44,689]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Was beaten twice in the air by Brown. Which happens. Defenders get out marked. Just ask Lever, who loses one on ones to debut players and small forwards. I had to laugh though because both times not one player came to help out in the air. Wasn't that what we got got Captain Zone man for? To float in and 'kill' the ball, Rance like. Sheez.

 

A postscript to this comment. Just watched the replay of the 3rd q (having gone to the game). Roosy and Brown were really paying out on the other defenders (and Lever in particular) for allowing Brown to isolate TMac's younger brother and not get back/across to help him out

Edited April 8, 2018 by binman

[Willmoy1947 4,221]

1 hour ago, Wiseblood said:

There is some interesting discussion going on here after this win.  Who would have thought, back in 2013, that we would have some gripes over a 6 goal win against a side we have struggled against for over a decade?

Times change, and so do the expectations.  While I'm happy with the win and even happier to get the monkey off our back, I understand where others are coming from.  Our expectations for this side have gone from hoping we can be competitive right through to wanting us to be the dominant side when it counts.  We aren't just looking for a good effort, or a lucky win - we are looking for us to be ruthless as a side and do what we should be doing, which is winning games and winning them well.

While some feel some trepidation about our progress, I really don't think we're too far away from everything clicking.  We've had to manage without two of our best players while integrating a new one in to the back line.  We've had to re-jig the forward line as well in Tom McDonald's absence and we're still looking for the most effective method.  

All in all, we are getting closer to hitting some really good form.  Our effort levels are good, our ability to win the ball has been good and we've really improved our ability to get the ball inside 50. It wasn't too long ago that we really struggled to get the ball inside 50 and now we're getting it in at a high rate.  We just need to sort things out down back with our zone and begin to lower our eyes a little more and show some composure when going forward.

I'm excited for the rest of the season, but I'm also in the same camp as those who are right in having higher expectations for the footy club.

Yep, i agree with this, there was something there wasn't there, The question might be if it's being noticed that we have improved each week? Not just with the win/loss situation but just perceptively overall.

I sort of sat there after the game and thought "we almost clicked then", not continuously but noticeably.