POSTMATCH DISCUSSION - Round 20

[DemonWA 3,889]

GWS are second on the ladder and the majority of the coaches in the comp still predict they will win the flag.

We're playing like a bunch of tired kids, because for a lot of the guys that's what we are.

3 games left - win them all and we play finals. Win 2 and we're around the mark too.  basically If we make it we deserve it, and if we don't then we're a middle of the road team (which is what we are at this stage IMO). Even if we miss out I wont be too disheartened because for a change the kids are showing enough to make me believe we are building towards something special.

 

[bing181 9,157]

We travelled interstate where we were beaten by one of the main flag contenders on a ground they haven't lost on in x years.

And people are surprised?

We're 2 - 3 years off being a decent finals side. Until then, we'll win some, and lose some.

[Dee Zephyr 19,250]

5 hours ago, bing181 said:

We travelled interstate where we were beaten by one of the main flag contenders on a ground they haven't lost on in x years.

And people are surprised?

We're 2 - 3 years off being a decent finals side. Until then, we'll win some, and lose some.

Losses are a part of football no doubt and we have seen many over the last decade. 

The disappointing aspect over the last two weeks is the fact we couldn't find an extra mile when it counted. 

We needed someone to stand up and for one reason or another no one seemed to grab the opportunity and say follow me apart from Maxy yesterday. 

Everything we stood for as a club has vanished. Pressure gone, quick ball use gone, structures gone. 

I'm not fussed if people think we are not good enough yet, but we have worked bloody hard this season to give ourselves a chance of one final and to watch that chance vanish meekly is like a punch in the guts.

 

[grazman 7,348]

The warning signs were there in the warm up.  The boys looked flat, they didn't seem to be enthused by the conditions. I know there was mention last year that they hit the wall towards the back end of the season after a huge preseason and there was talk this would likely happen again this year until they get more miles in the younger legs.  I mentioned this to a Tiger supporting mate who was there (who is bullish about us- but still neutral) who was looking at me for an explanation of sorts. 

 I was positioned in front of the defensive transition drill and noticed a couple of concerning issues. Firstly was the lack of intensity it appeared that they were going through the motions on a cold Thursday afternoon rather than preparing to actually play.  The second concern was there was that while the drill was ostensibly about getting players radar calibrated for the windy conditions there were a couple of basic issues that weren't addressed.  Firstly players failed to adjust the drill when Player A got too close to Player B they still kicked rather than hand balled.  Twice in the game (ANB and Vince) chose to kick less than 10 meters when they could have more effectively hand balled.  The issue here is the indecision that it creates in the receiving players mind.  Anyway the second issue was two players who couldn't adjust their kicking to the conditions and speared low passes past the receiving player.  Hibberd and Hunt. 

13 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

How many targets has Hibberd hit lately?

One of the commentators on the radio mentioned that Hunt's kicking action makes it almost impossible for any of his team mates to mark the footy and I think Hibberd has the same issue.  Over distance the issue isn't as pronounced, but over shorter distances they tend to bullet the ball and it's something that needs to be addressed.  I know the game plan emphasises fast movement, but there were so many turnovers created yesterday by trying to spear players rather than putting the ball out in front of them to run onto it.

11 hours ago, Dante said:

We didn't learn a thing from last week and didn't have a strategy kicking in to the wind or kicking with it. 

GWS crowded our forward line in the second and third quarters, but we allowed their forwards to have an easy go at it, one out, or in some cases two out. 

I agree, we really struggle to position ourselves properly for the wind, most notably standing too shallow against the wind and letting it sail over our heads, this was most evident in the first quarter.  At least in the third he had Tom Mac go back who I thought was fantastic all day and should have had at least four extra free kicks for the day for being dragged down in the contest or hit in the head. 

I thought with GWS best three forwards out they would struggle to find an avenue towards goal, but it was us who struggled.  So poor was our ball movement that it gave the GWS defenders time to get back and when we did move it in quickly we failed to account for the wind and made their job easy. The other reason they were able to get so many free options going forward was that a lot of their forwards began to 'cheat' by running forward rather than stay near an opponent when we had the ball knowing we would turn it over.  You can do that I guess when you have a scoreboard pressure. 

We failed to move the ball properly and this was exacerbated by a general lack of presence from our forward line. I love having the ball in Jack Watt's hands the trouble is how to get it there.  He's simply awful one on one as a KPF.  He's been tried on the wing and that hasn't worked.  For a side crying out for good ball users how do we get him into the game?  

I'm not slashing my wrists just yet, but clearly we missed having some outside run that could counter Scully and Kelly.  I think Hannan and Stretch must come straight back in as well as Brayshaw if he's ready.  Tyson's ability to get his hands on the ball and get through traffic are amazing, but he just torches the ball so often.  If James Harmes can learn to work within his limitations he'd also be a much better footballer.  A number of times yesterday he tried to do too much when giving the first option would have helped him have a much better game. 

Edited August 5, 2017 by grazman

[Biffen 12,939]

5 hours ago, bing181 said:

We travelled interstate where we were beaten by one of the main flag contenders on a ground they haven't lost on in x years.

And people are surprised?

We're 2 - 3 years off being a decent finals side. Until then, we'll win some, and lose some.

And how do you explain away losing to the bottom side in Hobart?

I think it was too cold for our soft kids

[shorty 233]

6 hours ago, bing181 said:

We travelled interstate where we were beaten by one of the main flag contenders on a ground they haven't lost on in x years.

And people are surprised?

We're 2 - 3 years off being a decent finals side. Until then, we'll win some, and lose some.

It not that we lost the game it was how easily they won it, 15 minutes of footy in the 1st quarter, we may have some tired players but who stood up after it was 3 goals apiece.  

[Nasher 33,607]

28 minutes ago, Biffen said:

And how do you explain away losing to the bottom side in Hobart?

I think it was too cold for our soft kids

It wasn't cold in Hobart. And I don't just mean relative to normal Hobart conditions - I've frozen my arse off at the MCG enough times to know what cold is at the footy.

[grazman 7,348]

9 minutes ago, Nasher said:

It wasn't cold in Hobart. And I don't just mean relative to normal Hobart conditions - I've frozen my arse off at the MCG enough times to know what cold is at the footy.

It was cold yesterday let me tells ya!

Losing didn't help warm me up either.

[Deeoldfart 8,001]

There's no doubt in my mind that the youth of our playing group, long term injuries to key players and a very demanding schedule in the back half of the season, are taking a significant toll.  We've reverted to some bad habits, and it seems like playing footy has become a chore.

Excuses?  Of course they are!  

....... but also real and understandable imo.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,941]

The most frustrating thing about yesterday is we came out and for the first 6 minutes played hard, clinical and urgent football. We ran to offer up, we didn't clamber over each other to get the ball and trusted our team mate. We got the ball and lowered our eyes with kicks and looked laterally for handballs in better positions. We showed some spark and comradery when we scored.

Then they upped their play and we went to water for the next 20 minutes as if it was all too hard. 

[DubDee 24,873]

25 minutes ago, Deeoldfart said:

There's no doubt in my mind that the youth of our playing group, long term injuries to key players and a very demanding schedule in the back half of the season, are taking a significant toll.  We've reverted to some bad habits, and it seems like playing footy has become a chore.

Excuses?  Of course they are!  

....... but also real and understandable imo.

Yep 8 players with less than 40 games will lead to some poor performances

[buck_nekkid 5,831]

21 minutes ago, Deeoldfart said:

There's no doubt in my mind that the youth of our playing group, long term injuries to key players and a very demanding schedule in the back half of the season, are taking a significant toll.  We've reverted to some bad habits, and it seems like playing footy has become a chore.

Excuses?  Of course they are!  

....... but also real and understandable imo.

What do we do about it?  Put the cue in the rack?  Accept that we are a 9-11 on the ladder team?

Seriously, I thought (and have seen) us play football of a very high caliber.  SInce the Bulldogs game, it has been there in patches, but not even for a full quarter or a half.  Our style when we are under pressure is so different from when we are applying the pressure.

I cannot fathom the number of times we would handball straight back into a contest, rather than try to get outside it.  How many times we chose poor options through rushing, or have been chased down for wanting to do too much.

If we keep playing like this, we are cooked.  Goody's "where you are on round 23 will bite him in the arse if we keep this shyte up.  We will be in about 12th on the ladder.

Time for a reset.  Time to get our structures right.  I think we have been found out, and are now being bullied the way we would bully other teams.  Its OK for glass half full, because it has been a much better season of football for us Dees fans.  However, if we keep this up, we will never be likely.  

Enough, Demons.  Do something about this.  (Hint, most of it is between your ears..)

[The heart beats true 17,942]

Just a side note about the team that beat us yesterday. I've watched a lot of their games this year and that was the best they've played.

Mark Ricciuito said in the commentary that they didn't just kick 8 goals, they strung together the best looking 8 goals you're ever going to see. Everything went their way and our boys just looked completely demoralised. 

They have more talent in their top 30 players than any other team in the history of the AFL, and not having tall forwards actually made them play to their strengths - skill and speed. 

All this talk of an even competition is AFL spin to distract from the reality of what's about to happen. GWS have been playing at about 60% capacity. Yesterday Healy said they are under pressure for 'underperforming' - and they are 2nd on the ladder.

We are clearly a mile off it, but make no mistake - GWS are a dream list of 22-24 year olds all about to have an incredibly fruitful 5 year period, and the fact it's taking slightly longer than most predicted for them to take the final step is the only thing helping the competition 'feel' balanced.

[biggestred 4,873]

Am i annoyed we lost yesterday? No. 

Am i annoyed we lost to north the week before? Yes.

Am i annoyed we didnt have a crack yesterday? Yes.

 

Will i be furious if we dont have a crack v the saints? You bet

[Born to Run 204]

7 minutes ago, biggestred said:

Am i annoyed we lost yesterday? No. 

Am i annoyed we lost to north the week before? Yes.

Am i annoyed we didnt have a crack yesterday? Yes.

 

Will i be furious if we dont have a crack v the saints? You bet

Spot on

[At the break of Gawn 4,458]

Why is it that Collingwood or Essendon don't have to play on these suburban grounds? Melbourne has played on 4 suburban grounds this year.

This club has got to stop taking [censored] from the AFL and request AFL venues only. Knowing our luck, we'll get Launceston next year as well as Hobart. 

It's no wonder our two worst performances have coincided with playing on foreign grounds that are highly susceptible to the elements and are very familiar to our opposition.

Next week is the ultimate litmus test.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,954]

18 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

There is one thing from this game that stands out to me the most, and that is the total disconnect we have at the moment across our half forward line.  

Our least influential players on the ground today were our tall forwards and Garlett.  That says either our forwards are not working hard enough, or our disposal and decision making forward of centre needs to change.  I think it's a case of both.  

We like to 'bomb it in' so to speak, 

That certainly wasn't the case early, we were lowering our eyes and hitting up targets with low penetrating kicks. Once GWS switched it seemed to become a bit too hard and our boys folded.

[grazman 7,348]

1 hour ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

The most frustrating thing about yesterday is we came out and for the first 6 minutes played hard, clinical and urgent football. We ran to offer up, we didn't clamber over each other to get the ball and trusted our team mate. We got the ball and lowered our eyes with kicks and looked laterally for handballs in better positions. We showed some spark and comradery when we scored.

Then they upped their play and we went to water for the next 20 minutes as if it was all too hard. 

The way you play is often dictated by the way the opposition play.  There was an audible click after 6 minutes when GWS found the right gear.  They lifted their intensity, started running in waves and generally played the conditions much better than we did.

Edited August 6, 2017 by grazman

[grazman 7,348]

59 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Why is it that Collingwood or Essendon don't have to play on these suburban grounds? 

 

They draw crowds and we don't,

[Willmoy1947 4,017]

From a supporters point of view, these last several games are similar to when the kids were at the Tea Table. We've had a taste of ice cream for dessert and we want it every Saturday night from now on...... 

[dees189227 12,310]

I had a look at our midfield and there stats. They all nearly had double the handballs than kicks. That's not going to get the ball forward. At some stage it needs to be drilled into the players head to not over use the handball. 

But im not mad after yesterday. I am more mad about last week. Maybe I just know that GWS are sitting 3rd on the ladder for a reason and although they were missing there 2 key forwards, they are still a good team.

But the next 3 weeks are interesting because it's now up to the players if they want to play in September or not. We can and should win the last 3.

I just hope it doesnt come down to r23 and us having to beat the pies to make it. I couldnt cope if the pies put us out and even worse if it beats the bummers in. 

But looking back those stupid losses to freo, hawthorn and nth and even geelong when we couldnt kick straight will come back to bite us. 

Anyway bring on next week. 

[Ethan Tremblay 30,496]

During his presser Goodwin stated he wasn't in a position to comment about the Mumford incident on Gawn. Anyone know what the incident was? 

[bandicoot 1,395]

19 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Not sure about that Wise:

Clearances:  GWS 60.  Melb 43

Tackles: 119.  Melb 86

That says effort to me, or lack of.  No excuses for that.

119 tackles is in the top 5 for a side in AFL history. GWS came to play and no one was going to get in their way

Edited August 6, 2017 by bandicoot

[danielE288 777]

6 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

During his presser Goodwin stated he wasn't in a position to comment about the Mumford incident on Gawn. Anyone know what the incident was? 

Yeah he clipped him in the head with his elbow/hip. Minimum 2 week suspension.

[John Crow Batty 8,832]

19 minutes ago, bandicoot said:

119 tackles is in the top 5 for a side in AFL history. GWS came to play and no one was going to get in their way

Shame we didn't come to play to at least give a contest. GWS has been bog standard ordinary for 2 months and with North being pathetic for the same time. Says more about us than them. First we fall for the tanking hype and then the lacklustre form/injury hype. We switched off in both games. 

Edited August 6, 2017 by america de cali