Post match Discussion "Fire away"

[Soidee 1,496]

I am very appreciative of what Paul Roos is doing for the MFC, however I am just dumbfounded by his comments of some players being tired!!!

geezus Roosy, it's game 2. 17 other teams. What is this TIRED BS? Bulldogs can run out games, blah blah blah.  Stop giving the players an out, your team played like primadonnas after last week.  Pull them into gear as is your job and stop pampering with this tired BS.

[Undeeterred 3,123]

8 hours ago, rjay said:

At one point it was Daniher up against Matt Jones....

Amazingly Matt brought the ball to ground, I think Daniher fluffed the opportunity because he couldn't quite believe the match up.

Free kick not paid - Jones was all over Daniher's shoulder. But it did seem odd he was within 20 feet, yes.

[Deecisive 1,709]

While I don't see the umpiring as an excuse for our loss, I must admit I am getting a bit worried about the umpiring that I have seen over the last couple or rounds it must be getting very confusing for the players. Players are dropping the ball all over the place when tackled without it being paid as illegal disposal.  Holding the ball some players have all day and nothing others don't have a chance to get rid of it are gang tackled and its holding the ball.  The deliberate out of bounds is enforced inconsistently as is over the shoulder and holding players away from or in the contest. Then we have the dangerous tackle charade or in the back when a players is falling forward and the player tackling has to come along for the ride. The 10 meter exclusion zone and kicking not 15 meters all very confusing due to the inconsistency of when and which umpires pay what. .   

 

 

[Undeeterred 3,123]

5 hours ago, Akum said:

These are good points, and agree with the little that I know about the Roos & Goodwin dynamic.

It's not that the players "like" Goodwin and "don't like" Roos. They have enormous respect for Roos, and appreciation for the much improved defensive aspects of his game plan that he has brought. But there is some frustration that when things aren't going well and changes are needed, Roos won't change it up. 

Those who say there's not much difference between Roos's & Goodwin's game plans are right, in a way. The game plan is basically Roos's, and Goodwin has only made a couple of tweaks to it. But those tweaks are absolutely crucial.

I do know that the going forward by low firm passes that we saw in the NAB Challenge is pure Goodwin, and bombing high to Hogan isn't. I don't know whether going forward in that way is also Roos's intention - it may be that by bombing it to Hogan, the players were actually disobeying Roos's orders to do it Goodwin's way. But the fact that they did it for the whole match, although it was obviously not working because Woosha had Hogan well & truly covered, makes me think that it was actually Roos's orders to "get it in to Hogan as quickly as you can" (as well as the clear resemblance to the Swans c.2005-2009)

And I think - but I don't know - that the other Goodwin "tweak" is the forward press, only because it has been very apparent in games where Goodwin has had control (NAB Challenge) and has not been apparent in games where Roos has been in control. Happy to admit I may be wrong, but what makes me think it's Goodwin and not Roos is that to play the forward press, we have to accept that we're going to leak some goals when the other team gets out the back, but that overall it has more benefits than costs. And to me it just doesn't seem Roos to accept a strategy that involves us leaking some pretty bad goals.

So AF, I agree with you totally about the Geelong comparison - a critical part of an essentially defensive game plan is to be able to hurt them on the rebound. If you don't have an effective attacking strategy, in 2016 you can be as good defensively as you possibly can be, but you're going to be eventually overcome, because good sides will realise that you can't hurt them on the rebound, so they'll exploit that and just wait for you to bomb it down the line to a contest (sound familiar?) and kill you on the turnover.

Goodwin isn't going to throw Roos's game plan away - in fact, Goodwin's game plan is probably at least 2/3 Roos's game plan (remember Allan Jeans' thing about footy being pretty simple - either we've got the ball, they've got the ball or it's in dispute?). But his tweaks are absolutely vital, and make it more effective defensively as well as offensively. And for that matter, it's possible that Goodwin by himself couldn't have put together as good a defensive game plan as Roos has - he owes a huge amount to Roos.

Yesterday, the Essendon brains trust had a plan to tie us up in knots - they sat on Viney, our new prime mover; they had loose men in dangerous positions and banked on Roos not covering them, which he didn't; they knew we had no physical match-up for Daniher, unless we were prepared to sacrifice TMac's attacking game to stand him, which they knew Roos wouldn't do; they knew Gawn would win loads of taps but worked out how to nullify them, and banked on Roos not changing the stoppage strategy, which he didn't; and they anticipated the vast majority of our i50 entries being bombs to Hogan and double-teamed him, banking on Roos not changing it and he didn't. WE ARE ALWAYS VULNERABLE TO THIS AND NEED TO PLAN FOR WHAT TO CHANGE WHEN THIS HAPPENS, and this ALWAYS happens when we are "The Hunted" and not "The Hunter".

It's like a fish being caught in a net - the harder the fish struggles and makes an effort, the tighter the net becomes. The players find that the harder they try to do the same thing, the harder it becomes. This is when something needs to change. But in the games where he's had control, it seems that Roos doesn't do changing things in the middle of a game - he seems to prefer to set a strategy at the beginning of a game that he thinks is going to prevail, and expects it to prevail no matter what the other coaches do. And it's this refusal to change when the other coach has us "in the net" that leads to frustration - by which I mean not angry, but feeling that there's a way to fix the problem that's not being used.

Now I'm a huge admirer of Roos & what he's done for MFC - his skills in being able (with PJ) to unite a fractured organisation, his leadership, his inspiration, his club-building and team-building, his recruiting strategy (of senior coaching staff as well as of players) have been absolutely fantastic and exactly what we needed. But he is not as outstanding at match-day coaching as all these other things (his background in coaching is actually quite shallow), and he has everything to gain & nothing to lose by letting Goodwin (and Craig Jennings, who I've heard is a great pick up) have more match-day responsibility. Roos is like the best editor in the business who wants to have the front page article as well - we need him to be a great editor, there's someone else who can be the great journo.

Sorry for the rant. But I have fears that this situation may set us back a few times this year.

Best, most thoughtful, considered and insightful post Demonland has ever seen. And spot on the money.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, rpfc said:

doesn'tn't itant to work and Ess did. Considering the stats - it's amazing we didn't lose by more. We didndon'tet out of first gear. 

Everyone was so confident before this game because we are a better team than Essendon and we are, but this team haven't earned that confidence. They need to be the hunter in every game. This team has down two-fifths of nothing. No idea why they would get ahead of themselves.

I dont believe they got ahead of themselves RP. Its a cultural thing thats been haunting this club for over a decade. The club as a whole just doesnt know how to handle the "favorites" tag and prepare Itself to lift sufficIently on match day to defeat teams It shld beat (on paper/recent form). It accepts losing/sub par performances far too easily and continues as If all Is well. If you accept that premise then you're destined to continue with your losing culture.

[Brownie 5,980]

2 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

 

I think our capabilities have improved above where we were around 2 years ago or so Macca but that was from such a horrible low we still aren't at a level that you would say is acceptable at AFL level. But in the end it is as you say, very much above the head for this club as a whole. It is incapable (for some unknown reason) to raise it's intensity/effort to a level required to meet and often beat it's challengers. Some are rated at or around a similar level to us, at least on paper anyway and in the case of Essendrug y'day, they were not expected to beat anyone all year (according to most). There is no consistency of output on the field over consecutive weeks. We occasionally win, then drop our bundle the very next week if coming up against what is considered an opponent we are capable of beating and in some cases 'should' beat (based on recent form). How often do you hear the comment on here "yet again we have played a horribly out of form team ...into form!".

The team we are sometimes expected to beat (the week after a win) generally raise their level of intensity/attack and execution, and for some reason we are (in most cases) apparently unable to raise ours to match them (and beat them) and seem content to just play out the match and take the loss.

When you keep losing and are incapable of stringing any consistency or your game together for more than the occasional win it has to be moral sapping and a big dent to some individual's belief and confidence in their own game (including their skills....no matter how much you train them!!) and that of some of the players around them on game day (and vice versa). This has to impact on their belief system eventually (even if it's one chink at a time) as well as their belief in the Coach/Game plan and club as a whole if left to fester for too long.

I've been saying this for years so apologies if you've heard this before (probably under diff coaches) but unless or until Roos (with the support of the FD/Club) or Goodwin when he takes over, addresses this fundamental issue within the club, we will continue to dead cat bounce for years and maybe decades to come.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves (including Roos and all officials at the Club) and will only lead to more heartbreak and disappointment as each heartbreaking let down unfolds. As soon as we start to think we look like there's a positive on the horizon (after the odd win).  As soon as we are challenged (by pretty much any team outside of the absolute worst). We will almost always crumble and fold like a pack of cards the very next week IF this issue isn't addressed and eradicated. And that process of eradication has to begin this week!

If the coach/FD & club decide yesterday was just an aberration and it's steady as she goes then i'm afraid we are doomed as a club to be forever irrelevant. My worry from Roosy's presser yesterday is that he appears (on the surface) to be willing to do just that,

Unfortunately many still believe there's going to be some sort of saviour that's going to somehow lift this club from the mire and into a new golden era given enough time (which varies depending on who you ask). Personally i don't think anything is going to change for us until we address the reasons behind why we continue to have the most brittle underbelly of any team in the AFL over the last decade (some will no doubt argue longer given our lack of success since 64').

Roos (and PJ) now have some big decisions ahead of them. Do they keep sticking their fingers in the dyke and ignore the elephant in our club rooms and just hand the problem over to Goody who will run up against exactly the same problem in his tenure? Or do they take this most important issue head on and commit themselves to getting to the bottom of it before Roos moves on? Do they even see/realise that the problem is inherent within the club and needs fixing. I sure hope one of them does! Otherwise it won't matter who they put in the coaches box.

I just signed up here to say you hit the nail on the head.

i thought Roos was the right guy to build their belief and to teach them to be ruthless but it still doesn't seem to be working.

it wasn't a selection problem on Saturday. we had the talent on the field to demolish a second tier team and we just fell apart again.

Roos has talked about the fragility in the past but it's still here in spades.

what do we do now?

[monoccular 17,428]

23 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Roos has built the list, changed the culture although today disproves that, raised the bar with regards to training and preparation and given the place a professional feel but....

the last two years was all about defence, does he have the tactical nous?

Well, if the last 2 years was about defense, yesterday showed that there are many more years, or more responsive / capable / focused players required to get us anywhere other than up sh17 creek  

23 hours ago, Hogan2014 said:

Why can the Bulldogs front up each week ready to play with a list similar to ours in terms of experience... 

Maybe they have players who are prepared to give all and believe in each other, rather than believe in their own hype?

22 hours ago, Akum said:

But it was glaringly obvious that they'd put heaps of planning into stopping Viney and Gawn. It was easy to see that they were their big targets, plus Hogan of course.

As Praha keeps saying, the fact that our three big guns were nullified, we refused to cover their two loose men the whole game, we were comprehensively out coached and we were in front with 15 minutes to go actually says a lot for the players' efforts.

Surely you don't mean that some teams actually plan how to negate opposition playmakers?  You mean we could have planned to negate Merrit x2, Zaharakis and Daniher?  Surely not. Is that allowed?  Maybe our match committee should read your posts, Akum. 

I must say it is a long time since I remember our "game plan" actually shutting down a key opponent. 

[dieter 3,325]

6 hours ago, Redleg said:

You left out the world champion Lumumba and he has a mate who can be guaranteed to cost a few goals and that is Matt Jones.

Thanks for reminding me!

[jnrmac 20,061]

E-F-F-O-R-T

Thats where we lost it. Nothing else matters. We didn't run. We didn't spread. We didn't pick up their loose players. The stats are damning. A gazillion uncontested possessions means they out ran us - all over the park.

You could see it after 5 mins. Most of us in the stands could. We are used to spotting it.

Don't know WTF the coaches were looking at. God knows there's enough of them up in the box. 

 

[CBDees 3,167]

12 hours ago, DemonOX said:

Seems most team who won last week lost this week.

Thats a bit weird!!

With the exception of the Suns, Dogs, Swans and Roos who we play next week. Playing them in Tassie will test Jack's self-belief!

[What 18,810]

How much coin is Lumumba costing us?  Guess we didnt learn our lesson with Dawes.  

[pinkshark 950]

12 hours ago, Soidee said:

I am very appreciative of what Paul Roos is doing for the MFC, however I am just dumbfounded by his comments of some players being tired!!!

geezus Roosy, it's game 2. 17 other teams. What is this TIRED BS? Bulldogs can run out games, blah blah blah.  Stop giving the players an out, your team played like primadonnas after last week.  Pull them into gear as is your job and stop pampering with this tired BS.

Totally agree.  Viney said it today what we all knew.  'We lacked respect' - that in itself is simply unbelievable.  A team that has absolutely ZERO respect from the rest of the competition in recent years lacks respect for another team?  What a joke.  When we are climbing out of the cesspit our club has been in I cannot believe we would disrespect the possibility of 4 premiership points.  F&&&&&&&&&&&&&CK!  I'm angrier today than game day and yesterday.

I am so embarrassed to say I support this club at the moment.  I love the club yes.  But they are an embarrassment.  A laughing stock.  Put a f^&king sign up above the doors they run out that says in big capital letters (for the stupid ones) - "DON'T EMBARRASS YOURSELVES ANYMORE.  DON'T EMBARRASS YOUR FANS ANYMORE, AND DON"T ALLOW YOURSELVES TO BE THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THIS COMPETITION"

If that does not serve to remind these clowns then tattoo on their thick foreheads.

I have had enough of this [censored]. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

10 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

Totally agree.  Viney said it today what we all knew.  'We lacked respect' - that in itself is simply unbelievable.  A team that has absolutely ZERO respect from the rest of the competition in recent years lacks respect for another team?  What a joke.  When we are climbing out of the cesspit our club has been in I cannot believe we would disrespect the possibility of 4 premiership points.  F&&&&&&&&&&&&&CK!  I'm angrier today than game day and yesterday.

I am so embarrassed to say I support this club at the moment.  I love the club yes.  But they are an embarrassment.  A laughing stock.  Put a f^&king sign up above the doors they run out that says in big capital letters (for the stupid ones) - "DON'T EMBARRASS YOURSELVES ANYMORE.  DON'T EMBARRASS YOUR FANS ANYMORE, AND DON"T ALLOW YOURSELVES TO BE THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THIS COMPETITION"

If that does not serve to remind these clowns then tattoo on their thick foreheads.

I have had enough of this [censored]. 

Spot on mate

the MFC has no right to dissrespect ANYONE...

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

14 hours ago, DemonOX said:

Seems most team who won last week lost this week.

Thats a bit weird!!

This is the third time this has happened in less than year. it is a hard stretch now to believe anything has changed or will change.

[chook fowler 19,458]

1 hour ago, Petraccattack said:

How much coin is Lumumba costing us?  Guess we didnt learn our lesson with Dawes.  

We should make a play for Cloke and complete the trifecta 

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

Well that sucked all the fun out of the weekend.

Those bastards beat us. Them of all clubs. Their only win of the year. Another singular achievement by the mighty Demons.

Was there, surrounded by Essendon supporters. What an irritating bunch of entitled [censored] [censored] they are. The one right behind me was giggling like a child the whole game. I stuck with it so that when the tables turned I would give it right back at them. I was waiting a long time.

Even at the 26 minute mark of the last I thought we would still do it. That final siren ...

I still can't believe that really happened.

Win it for all the clean teams, Melbourne. Or, [censored] it up and give them a win and some belief. And look damned foolish at the same time.

To those who say we got ahead of ourselves. No we didn't. We should have beaten them. Maybe not by 10 goals. But we should have put them away without much trouble. Because they weren't very good.

Like someone else said, I feel cheated.

It felt like when C’wood won their last flag,  I didn't use or read tv radio or papers for a week. Couldn't bear it.

We played right into their hands. They crowded us for space and time and we played right into their hands.

Was obvious right from the start what they doing.

Their spread killed ours. They had players in space so often. How could we not counter that.

Then they would chip it around chip it around, sideways, backwards, until they got some space and you'd look down the ground, loose men everywhere. They moved it easily compared to us.

We had enough trouble just getting our hands on the ball.

Always seemed to be under the pump. And when we did get our hands on the ball, we couldn't pick it up.

If we did, we couldn't get it to one of our guys.

If we did, he was under the pump.

So many bad skill errors. I pulled the bill of my cap down a bit every time there was a particularly egregious one. Habit of mine. By half time I couldn't see anything coz it was pointing at the floor.

If we found space, you'd look down the ground, plenty of loose men spreading. But the guy with the ball would stop, look around, maybe play on, maybe not. He'd kick it to the next guy in the chain. He in turn would stop, look around ... the half second delay for each possession killed us. Add it up over 3 or 4 possessions and suddenly we’re manned up and there's no-one to kick to.

That hesitation, where they had none, did more than anything else to beat ourselves. We played like we were scared of losing (and clearly were), but they played with the carelessness and freedom of a side with nothing to lose.

The shot from Angus in the last that went OOB summed up the whole day.

I don't pretend know the dynamics of a group mindset so I don't know how a team gets into that kind of panic. And so don't want to single out any player, but here goes anyway ....

Hogan needs some tough love. He needs to lead, or go to Casey until he learns to lead. Compare him to (shudder) Daniher. I know who was the most dangerous and damaging player out of the two of them.

He simply cannot succeed at this level glued to the goal square expecting his mids to bomb it on his head and pick him out of a group of 3 or even 4 defenders. How to make it easy for the defenders, in one easy lesson. They know where he'll be every single time.

And if he won't lead and insists on playing a solo role in a team sport, then he can leave the club and it doesn't matter where to. Coz until he pulls his head in he'll be a shadow of his potential.

I thought the new, 80 interchange open style of play would suit Lumumba. Maybe it will, if we can work out how to play it again. But how the [censored] does he always manage to run back into trouble? It's like he's got agoraphobia. (Fear of open spaces, to save you a wikipedia lookup.)

Tommy Mc. Dear oh dear. Dear oh dear. Set the tone early when we badly wanted the first goal.

So many players who were near invisible. Only ones I could see putting in the whole time were Pedo & Tyson. But they weren't very effective. Jetta also tried his heart out.

And yet ...

We're not as bad as it would seem. We have good football in us. It's all attitude.

But we're at a crossroad already. Next week will see if we stumble through the season like 2014 or if we will continue on from where we thought we left off.

They cannot let this define the season.

It was crucial on Saturday to win, by any margin. And get the monkey off our backs. Win when favourites. Next game against Carlton? Huge mental test.

Goodwin to take over on match day. Roos has us playing too carefully. Last quarter against GWS shows what we can and should do all the time.

I still can't believe Saturday really happened.

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

11 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

Well that sucked all the fun out of the weekend.

Those bastards beat us. Them of all clubs. Their only win of the year. Another singular achievement by the mighty Demons.

Was there, surrounded by Essendon supporters. What an irritating bunch of entitled [censored] [censored] they are. The one right behind me was giggling like a child the whole game. I stuck with it so that when the tables turned I would give it right back at them. I was waiting a long time.

Even at the 26 minute mark of the last I thought we would still do it. That final siren ...

I still can't believe that really happened.

Win it for all the clean teams, Melbourne. Or, [censored] it up and give them a win and some belief. And look damned foolish at the same time.

To those who say we got ahead of ourselves. No we didn't. We should have beaten them. Maybe not by 10 goals. But we should have put them away without much trouble. Because they weren't very good.

Like someone else said, I feel cheated.

It felt like when C’wood won their last flag,  I didn't use or read tv radio or papers for a week. Couldn't bear it.

We played right into their hands. They crowded us for space and time and we played right into their hands.

Was obvious right from the start what they doing.

Their spread killed ours. They had players in space so often. How could we not counter that.

Then they would chip it around chip it around, sideways, backwards, until they got some space and you'd look down the ground, loose men everywhere. They moved it easily compared to us.

We had enough trouble just getting our hands on the ball.

Always seemed to be under the pump. And when we did get our hands on the ball, we couldn't pick it up.

If we did, we couldn't get it to one of our guys.

If we did, he was under the pump.

So many bad skill errors. I pulled the bill of my cap down a bit every time there was a particularly egregious one. Habit of mine. By half time I couldn't see anything coz it was pointing at the floor.

If we found space, you'd look down the ground, plenty of loose men spreading. But the guy with the ball would stop, look around, maybe play on, maybe not. He'd kick it to the next guy in the chain. He in turn would stop, look around ... the half second delay for each possession killed us. Add it up over 3 or 4 possessions and suddenly we’re manned up and there's no-one to kick to.

That hesitation, where they had none, did more than anything else to beat ourselves. We played like we were scared of losing (and clearly were), but they played with the carelessness and freedom of a side with nothing to lose.

The shot from Angus in the last that went OOB summed up the whole day.

I don't pretend know the dynamics of a group mindset so I don't know how a team gets into that kind of panic. And so don't want to single out any player, but here goes anyway ....

Hogan needs some tough love. He needs to lead, or go to Casey until he learns to lead. Compare him to (shudder) Daniher. I know who was the most dangerous and damaging player out of the two of them.

He simply cannot succeed at this level glued to the goal square expecting his mids to bomb it on his head and pick him out of a group of 3 or even 4 defenders. How to make it easy for the defenders, in one easy lesson. They know where he'll be every single time.

And if he won't lead and insists on playing a solo role in a team sport, then he can leave the club and it doesn't matter where to. Coz until he pulls his head in he'll be a shadow of his potential.

I thought the new, 80 interchange open style of play would suit Lumumba. Maybe it will, if we can work out how to play it again. But how the [censored] does he always manage to run back into trouble? It's like he's got agoraphobia. (Fear of open spaces, to save you a wikipedia lookup.)

Tommy Mc. Dear oh dear. Dear oh dear. Set the tone early when we badly wanted the first goal.

So many players who were near invisible. Only ones I could see putting in the whole time were Pedo & Tyson. But they weren't very effective. Jetta also tried his heart out.

And yet ...

We're not as bad as it would seem. We have good football in us. It's all attitude.

But we're at a crossroad already. Next week will see if we stumble through the season like 2014 or if we will continue on from where we thought we left off.

They cannot let this define the season.

It was crucial on Saturday to win, by any margin. And get the monkey off our backs. Win when favourites. Next game against Carlton? Huge mental test.

Goodwin to take over on match day. Roos has us playing too carefully. Last quarter against GWS shows what we can and should do all the time.

I still can't believe Saturday really happened.

Right on the money Ted. Prima Donas got smashed after basking in the glory of one win..

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Experience, leadership and the structure was caught lacking. Simple as that.

 

The saddest reality is these key ingredients wont happen over 1 season. Just look at gws and gold coast.

This will be one of many downs this year. I know it hurts for a lot of reasons but we need to band together and make sure this side sticks together to develop and form a great side

[drdrake 3,163]

I didn't attend the match this week but watch on TV and even went through the pain of watching again yesterday.  For years Jack Watts has been the whipping boy of our club, tell you what it should be Tom McDonald, he is the barometer of our club.  When he is off so are we, the issue with us is we attack from so deep in defence but our defenders can't kick.  We turn the ball over in our defensive half to much and usually results in a score because no one is behond them.

I bet sides are happy for us to switch the ball in our defensive 50m arc and they leave Tom as the free man for us to kick to.  You know that he will turn over 4 out of 10 disposals.  Each week Tom gives away as many goals as he saves.

What a difference, we are 11th could have been sitting 5th, we now face 3 weeks that will define our season. We can be 1 and 4 after round 5, we need to pick up 2 wins over the next 3 weeks or we start talking about draft picks. Oh Sh*t no point talking about draft picks we gave away our first round pick next year.

[poita 3,902]

Two days on, and I am ready to provide my thoughts.

1. The selectors - I thought we needed one of Dunn or Frost in the side, turned out we needed both of them. We were always going to be undersized with just one ruckman and four genuine key position players, along with 17 midgets. Lucky none of those talls were injured, although perhaps it would have made the coaches try something different. The decision to play Brayshaw and Oliver, neither who could raise a trot, was pathetic.

2. The coaches - Did we try anything at any point of the game to change the course of the match? I can't think of one significant move that was made. Why not send McDonald forward when he lost his confidence down back? Why not put Watts behind the ball? Why not get Salem or Lumumba out of defence? Why not put Garlett in the middle? Why not stand Gawn 10 metres in front of Daniher? Why not get Viney or Bugg tagging Zaharakis or Merrett to get them to the football? Just do something. And if the players refuse to chase and tackle and man up, they shouldn't be playing AFL football.

3. Paul Roos - Yet again he claims to be blindsided by a poor performance, and distracts from his failings by blaming the players being tired. In round 2? Give us a break, Paul. It is time for you to go if you couldn't see this coming, and then had no idea what to do about it. Yet again.

4. Tom McDonald - His best football is exceptional, his worst is abysmal. For a supposed leader, it is incredible how quickly he drops his head once his loses a couple of contests. A decent defender would compose himself, and go doubly hard the next time. McDonald just stands idly by and watches his opponent take control. He should have been moved out of the backline by quarter time.

5. Dean Kent - I have never been a fan, and this game comprehensively proved that he is not an AFL footballer. 5 useless possessions in more than 80% of game time, whilst his opponents ran around unchecked all day. If I was in charge his file would be marked "never again".

6. Heritier Lumumba - Again, I have never been a fan, and again he proved that he is a liability to this team. Zero tackles, 4 pressure acts (both team lows) - he is a defender who refuses to defend, and his supposedly attacking prowess comes down to him running around in circles and then roosting moon balls over the heads of his leading teammates. He never lowers his eyes and hits a target 30 - 40 metres away. I know Harry is Roos' love child, but Grimes is ten times the player Lumumba is.

7. Jesse Hogan - I felt sorry for Hogan on Saturday, because the delivery was pathetic and he got no support from Pedersen and Watts. That said, he should have been crashing packs and at least making Gwilt and Hartley earn their intercept marks. Disappointing.

8. Dom Tyson - Not the worst in terms of effort, but his disposal is killing us. It is hard to believe he was a number 3 draft picks with those skills.

9. Harmes, Vandenberg, Bugg, M.Jones - Jones was good against GWS and poor on Saturday, the others have been poor twice. None of these are players who will take us forward as a club, so the likes of ANB and Stretch should play ahead of them.

I would give a pass mark to Kennedy and Vince, and perhaps N.Jones. The rest were pathetic. Anything less than 5 changes this week (starting with Kent and Lumumba) would be a disgrace.

 

[DeeZone 9,835]

What a total disappointment , 10 minutes into the 1st quarter you could see that we were not on and it was only their poor kicking that kept us in the game and when the "porn star" out marked Hogan, T Mack & Col you just wondered what the hell is going on and where is Dunne. He could have cleared the congestion with his long kicking and hardness at the ball. It was just a lamentable effort. Surely our boys are not tired already???

[Radar Detector 1,347]

31 minutes ago, poita said:

Two days on, and I am ready to provide my thoughts.

1. The selectors - I thought we needed one of Dunn or Frost in the side, turned out we needed both of them. We were always going to be undersized with just one ruckman and four genuine key position players, along with 17 midgets. Lucky none of those talls were injured, although perhaps it would have made the coaches try something different. The decision to play Brayshaw and Oliver, neither who could raise a trot, was pathetic.

2. The coaches - Did we try anything at any point of the game to change the course of the match? I can't think of one significant move that was made. Why not send McDonald forward when he lost his confidence down back? Why not put Watts behind the ball? Why not get Salem or Lumumba out of defence? Why not put Garlett in the middle? Why not stand Gawn 10 metres in front of Daniher? Why not get Viney or Bugg tagging Zaharakis or Merrett to get them to the football? Just do something. And if the players refuse to chase and tackle and man up, they shouldn't be playing AFL football.

3. Paul Roos - Yet again he claims to be blindsided by a poor performance, and distracts from his failings by blaming the players being tired. In round 2? Give us a break, Paul. It is time for you to go if you couldn't see this coming, and then had no idea what to do about it. Yet again.

4. Tom McDonald - His best football is exceptional, his worst is abysmal. For a supposed leader, it is incredible how quickly he drops his head once his loses a couple of contests. A decent defender would compose himself, and go doubly hard the next time. McDonald just stands idly by and watches his opponent take control. He should have been moved out of the backline by quarter time.

5. Dean Kent - I have never been a fan, and this game comprehensively proved that he is not an AFL footballer. 5 useless possessions in more than 80% of game time, whilst his opponents ran around unchecked all day. If I was in charge his file would be marked "never again".

6. Heritier Lumumba - Again, I have never been a fan, and again he proved that he is a liability to this team. Zero tackles, 4 pressure acts (both team lows) - he is a defender who refuses to defend, and his supposedly attacking prowess comes down to him running around in circles and then roosting moon balls over the heads of his leading teammates. He never lowers his eyes and hits a target 30 - 40 metres away. I know Harry is Roos' love child, but Grimes is ten times the player Lumumba is.

7. Jesse Hogan - I felt sorry for Hogan on Saturday, because the delivery was pathetic and he got no support from Pedersen and Watts. That said, he should have been crashing packs and at least making Gwilt and Hartley earn their intercept marks. Disappointing.

8. Dom Tyson - Not the worst in terms of effort, but his disposal is killing us. It is hard to believe he was a number 3 draft picks with those skills.

9. Harmes, Vandenberg, Bugg, M.Jones - Jones was good against GWS and poor on Saturday, the others have been poor twice. None of these are players who will take us forward as a club, so the likes of ANB and Stretch should play ahead of them.

I would give a pass mark to Kennedy and Vince, and perhaps N.Jones. The rest were pathetic. Anything less than 5 changes this week (starting with Kent and Lumumba) would be a disgrace.

 

Great summary.

[DeeZone 9,835]

Deecisive - I agree that the umpiring did not cost us the game but I found it hard not to comment on the superior umpiring displayed during the GWS vs Cats game yesterday.

[Little Richard 6,262]

48 minutes ago, poita said:

Two days on, and I am ready to provide my thoughts.

1. The selectors - I thought we needed one of Dunn or Frost in the side, turned out we needed both of them. We were always going to be undersized with just one ruckman and four genuine key position players, along with 17 midgets. Lucky none of those talls were injured, although perhaps it would have made the coaches try something different. The decision to play Brayshaw and Oliver, neither who could raise a trot, was pathetic.

2. The coaches - Did we try anything at any point of the game to change the course of the match? I can't think of one significant move that was made. Why not send McDonald forward when he lost his confidence down back? Why not put Watts behind the ball? Why not get Salem or Lumumba out of defence? Why not put Garlett in the middle? Why not stand Gawn 10 metres in front of Daniher? Why not get Viney or Bugg tagging Zaharakis or Merrett to get them to the football? Just do something. And if the players refuse to chase and tackle and man up, they shouldn't be playing AFL football.

3. Paul Roos - Yet again he claims to be blindsided by a poor performance, and distracts from his failings by blaming the players being tired. In round 2? Give us a break, Paul. It is time for you to go if you couldn't see this coming, and then had no idea what to do about it. Yet again.

4. Tom McDonald - His best football is exceptional, his worst is abysmal. For a supposed leader, it is incredible how quickly he drops his head once his loses a couple of contests. A decent defender would compose himself, and go doubly hard the next time. McDonald just stands idly by and watches his opponent take control. He should have been moved out of the backline by quarter time.

5. Dean Kent - I have never been a fan, and this game comprehensively proved that he is not an AFL footballer. 5 useless possessions in more than 80% of game time, whilst his opponents ran around unchecked all day. If I was in charge his file would be marked "never again".

6. Heritier Lumumba - Again, I have never been a fan, and again he proved that he is a liability to this team. Zero tackles, 4 pressure acts (both team lows) - he is a defender who refuses to defend, and his supposedly attacking prowess comes down to him running around in circles and then roosting moon balls over the heads of his leading teammates. He never lowers his eyes and hits a target 30 - 40 metres away. I know Harry is Roos' love child, but Grimes is ten times the player Lumumba is.

7. Jesse Hogan - I felt sorry for Hogan on Saturday, because the delivery was pathetic and he got no support from Pedersen and Watts. That said, he should have been crashing packs and at least making Gwilt and Hartley earn their intercept marks. Disappointing.

8. Dom Tyson - Not the worst in terms of effort, but his disposal is killing us. It is hard to believe he was a number 3 draft picks with those skills.

9. Harmes, Vandenberg, Bugg, M.Jones - Jones was good against GWS and poor on Saturday, the others have been poor twice. None of these are players who will take us forward as a club, so the likes of ANB and Stretch should play ahead of them.

I would give a pass mark to Kennedy and Vince, and perhaps N.Jones. The rest were pathetic. Anything less than 5 changes this week (starting with Kent and Lumumba) would be a disgrace.

 

Pretty good run down Poita.

I'm beginning to have doubts about Kent too, although he has a fair bit of time before a call is made I'd think. When he is on he's a great asset to have but it doesn't happen enough. Kennedy has superseded him already and is more versatile. Not sure we can fit both of them in our best 22.

In regards to Harmes, AVB, I disagree. AVB is definitely going to be a vital cog to our midfield going forward, and I think Harmes has a future. Keep in mind that this was only his 10th game of AFL football. Bugg is probably just a stop gap and M. Jones is in the same boat unless he can continue the GWS form.

In other news, I saw Joey Daniher at a bar in Northcote on Saturday night. Fairly sure he was with Laverde. I said g'day and he seemed like a nice enough fella, considering the colour of the jumper he wears. The Hogan vs Daniher debate will continue for a long time but so far this season Daniher is looking the goods. If only he could kick straighter, he'd be well ahead.

Edited April 4, 2016 by Django

[Vipercrunch 2,827]

The fact that any of our players became over confident from our preseason form and our lucky win against GWS is a disgrace.  We were poor against the Bulldogs and won because of the quality of players they rested.  GWS played very poorly AND kicked very poorly for goal and we only just won.

I am fine with our supporters enjoying wins, they have been all too few of them BUT our players should not have taken too much confidence from what we had dished up this year.  We have shown some (and only some) improvements, but our costly turnovers and lack of composure when put under pressure have been all too obvious.

So far to go....

As some posters have been trying to point out this season, there is such a thing as a good loss (I hope to see some this year) and there is also such a thing as a bad and/or lucky win. If our players keep taking confidence from those bad wins, then we're going to continue to be the laughing stock of the competition.