Post match Discussion "Fire away"

[Wells 11 4,704]

2 minutes ago, Nasher said:

The problem is there's no point asking Roos the hard questions because he can't really be put under any pressure. His role all along has been quality builder  and heat taker. The problem we have now is we're ready to take the next step with our new coach, but for this season we've still got the coach whose brief basically allows him to ignore or shrug off poor performances. 

Goodwin should be in command of the side, but he's not so I think we're just going to have to live with it.

kinda like Neelds last year all over again.

[Nasher 33,047]

4 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

kinda like Neelds last year all over again.

Not really, Neeld was a complete disaster introduced by incompetent administration. This is the byproduct of what I believe is fundamentally a good plan. The players love Goodwin and want to play for him by all reports, which has probably happened ahead of time.

With Neeld our club was in freefall with no exit plan. That was a truly terrifying period to support the club.

[Wells 11 4,704]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

Not really, Neeld was a complete disaster introduced by incompetent administration. This is the byproduct of what I believe is fundamentally a good plan. The players love Goodwin and want to play for him by all reports, which has probably happened ahead of time.

Hope you're right Nasher. It just scares me when we get SO outcoached in the way we did yesterday.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,171]

14 hours ago, Deecisive said:

I still don't know why people think Goodwin would have done much different, he would have been in the box with Roos giving him ideas etc... they are a coaching group. The game was lost on the field not in the box. McDonald's first kick across ground cost us a goal, his play on after a mark after taking a mark near the forward 50 and getting tackled, his tapping the ball over the line in the defensive 50, his inability to make contact with Daniher in marking contests. And that was just him, add to that Jettas free in the goal square when the essendon player was trying to shepherd the ball through for a point, Matt jones kick intercepted from the backline that resulted in another goal, Hogan not competing, Watts disappearing, Kent not even turning up, etc. etc. etc. so why are people blaming the coaches, those actions and many other done and not done by the players are what cost us the game.... You can be the best coach in the universe if your players cannot tackle, chase or deliver the ball with greater than 70% accuracy you will get towelled up. We lost that game rather than essendon winning it.

Because he would have have the final say on game day strategy, positional moves and would be delivering the message. There was not much different in yesterdays game style than last year. The style was clearly different during the NAB just unsure whether thats by design or execution or both.

[Mr Steve 3,820]

They will deal with yesterday and move on, problem is its a game we will never get back. And I'm just sick of learning lessons. I was joking preseason that its not fair that some teams play Essendon twice and we only play them once. Maybe that a positive we only play them once this year. 

[chook fowler 18,226]

There are not enough adjectives or profanities available to convey how I feel about yesterday's loss. It's just as well I'm not a coach because I would demand blood from the likes of Garland, McDonald, Kent, Harmes, Tyson for not kicking those 2 goals, Gawn for dumb tap work and that stupid 50m penalty, a Hogan for being a sook and not leading and Lamumba for being a ponce. Apologies to those I left out.

[mauriesy 6,790]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

BTW, did anyone else notice that a number of times Bugg or Jetta were one out against Daniher and the obvious happened.

Garland or T Mac went forward with the flow of the ball, while Daniher would go into the middle and then be picked up by a mid and would then run back into the forward line, with a mid or Jetta or Bugg on him. You could see it happening. 

The two loose players on the wing, unmanned the whole day started the rot.

I'll say it again, the Coaching box was worse than the players yesterday.

Agreed. We had no answer to their running, switching and loose men.

One thing I also noticed was that when Essendon (usually Gwilt) was taking a kick-out towards the member's wing, there would be lone Essendon player, totally unmanned, out towards the 50 line in the opposite back pocket. They often had no opponent within 40-50 metres. When the ball came back or play was switched, this player was well out by themself on the southern side to take a turnover or a switch. It gave them a lot of overlaps down the southern side wing that we totally failed to counter.

We definitely needed another tall back for Daniher. He is just so good overhead one-on-one. If he could kick we'd have lost by 5-6 goals like we did last year.

Also, I can't quite understand the new deliberate OOB interpretation. There were some rightly picked up that wouldn't have been last year, but that excellent come-from-behind spoil by Watts (I think) was right in front of me, and was given deliberate when he had no real control over where the punched ball went. He was just trying to get a fist in. Exactly the same OOB spoil in the StK v Dogs game last night was given a throw-in.

FWIW, I didn't even think the team looking sharp in the pre-game warm-up and told my wife the same.

Edited April 2, 2016 by mauriesy

[DeeMfc 621]

Roos wanted an arm wrestle with his old nemesis Worsfold. He lost. We saw no change up in the last quarter as we did last week. In fact changes should have been made from quarter time. It was a battle of egos.....

Add that to the above post by chook fowler and we have a recipe for disaster. 

Even though they were coached and played better the fact is we should have still won that game. Thank [censored] we scraped in last week or we'd be 0-2. 

Edited April 2, 2016 by DeeMfc

[bush demon 1,885]

14 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

I think he has 2 to 3 weeks to redeem himself (and the players also). They would need to win all of the next 3 to regain any sort of credibility after that pitiful effort and lack of composure/character.

Shuffling the deck chairs. We need super fast, super talented players who can run, spread and hit targets consistently. Too slow at decision making, too many poor decision makers, poor awareness and all round just bog ordinary disposers of the football who are possibly beyond repair and/or not truly committed or capable of playing at AFL level for more than a quarter or 2. List is only 1/3rd of the way there IMO before we see this mob start performing and winning matches that they are expected to (on paper).

Why didn't Roos give jeffy a run in the middle in the last quarter!!? (when the game was still up for grabs!?)

Essendrug's high press seemed to work. Ours was non-existent/ ineffective (at best). We never locked the ball down our end at any stage of the match. They ran it out like we weren't on the park. What happened to "team defense" lol?

3 pre-season's to get this right but still way behind the rest of the comp.

It's laughable calling them essendrug. i feel sorry for the essendon supporters who have been hoodwinked by certain administrators and coaches in their club. the whole club from supporters, past players and players play and support with a passion that we could only guess at. our players give the impression of being indentured labourers clocking on and off.essendon plays like they love football, we act like we army conscripts trying to push through the dardanelles.  this roos-goodwin transition thing is starting to look far too cute and precious. whose game style are we running? the former or the latter, or a hybrid of neither? why was gawn not used more on their 'no.6'? daniher had free run wherever he ran. never the slightest attempt to run him under the ball, nudge him off the ball or double-team him. honourable exception to nev jetta for some of his efforts. 

[Deecisive 1,651]

17 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Because he would have have the final say on game day strategy, positional moves and would be delivering the message. There was not much different in yesterdays game style than last year. The style was clearly different during the NAB just unsure whether thats by design or execution or both.

People seem to be inferring that under Roos we play one style and under Goodwin another, I really doubt that is the case. The change in play instituted by Goodwin would be continued under Roos, they are a coaching group that work together to decide. To pin this all on roos and declare it would have been different under Goodwin seems surreal given the pathetic football the players played. Again the game is won on the ground that's where players skill, or lack thereof, players mistakes and heroics occur. we had a lot of the former and non of the latter. That is where the game was lost. The blame should sit squarely on the 22 players on the field who were not accountable for their man or do their job. How many coaching careers has Melbourne destroyed because the players are not up to it. Now everyone is looking for Roos head, then when Goodwin our next saviour is unable to deliver because of the same players who do we blame then, but the coach. Even the best coaches in the world cannot turn a team into winners unless the team is committed to becoming winners and has the talent to support it.

 

 

[bush demon 1,885]

Just want to see MElbourne of old. That means forget about neutral expressions through the coaching window. Goodwin needs to get a clipboard in one hand and point a biro in Hogan's face at the 3/4 huddle. He needs to get purple in the face. we need some theatrics and some emotion. i am over the mind numbing 'getting the process' right stuff. another poster said they knew we were in trouble when mcdonald started talking about going two-up. i knew we were in trouble when - i think it was Clayton Oliver - said he was told by the coaching fraternity at the club we were finally 'back on track'. 

[junk 342]

As I have said before,you cannot judge how a team is giong to preform in the "real" season based on NAB up matches,yet some people including Roos swear by it. Based on our pathetic loss it is about time the coach stops telling everyone we had one bad week but prior to that we had four good weeks. No premiership points for NAB cup matches or have I been misinformed !!!!! 

[Gator 16,892]

Look, I've heard enough to know that the players (in the main) don't like Roos, but love Goodwin.

How much difference does this make on GameDay and, more generally, 2016 ?  I have no idea.  

But I suspect it makes "some" difference. 

[Age 381]

17 minutes ago, DeeMfc said:

Roos wanted an arm wrestle with his old nemesis Worsfold. He lost. We saw no change up in the last quarter as we did last week. In fact changes should have been made from quarter time. It was a battle of egos.....

Add that to the above post by chook fowler and we have a recipe for disaster. 

Even though they were coached and played better the fact is we should have still won that game. Thank [censored] we scraped in last week or we'd be 0-2. 

Roos coached this game the same way he back in 2005/6 with the swans, the same way he has been coaching his whole time with us. Only issue I have with that is that it's 10 years later and the game has changed so much. Is it any wonder that the new coaches to the games are the one that are winning...

[mauriesy 6,790]

8 minutes ago, Deecisive said:

People seem to be inferring that under Roos we play one style and under Goodwin another, I really doubt that is the case.

A Roos-Goodwin dichotomy is a media invention to raise a bit of chatter and sell a few stories.

It's the second week of the season. Everyone should settle down. Sure, we didn't play well but the doomsayers need a lot more evidence before they consign us to the wooden spoon.

[Mickey 4,173]

While I understand that the majority of the talk will be about essendon's win, does anyone else think that the club and coaches are getting off easily when it comes to the media? I really want them to come out and absolutely blast us, but they just don't care. 

Would it make any difference?

[Deecisive 1,651]

10 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Look, I've heard enough to know that the players (in the main) don't like Roos, but love Goodwin.

How much difference does this make on GameDay and, more generally, 2016 ?  I have no idea.  

But I suspect it makes "some" difference. 

I personally don't care if the don't like Roos he is the coach and they are playing for the Melbourne Football club, they should be man enough to play there best football no matter who their coach is. Besides I am not sure I like the idea of a coach that is everyones friends, I think players are more likely to get an honest assessment of their game, mistakes, etc from Roos than Goodwin.

[Undeeterred 2,864]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

I've been waiting for a post like this. 

I haven't seen the game and doubt I can put myself through the replay, but I'm guessing there was a real lack of on-field leadership.  Who marshaled the troops, who helped setup at the stoppages, who was our Hodge, Mitchell or Selwood ?  Who was vocal ?

Btw, I don't expect you to know these things, but this is an aspect of the club that needs to be addressed.  It's great when everybody is up and about, but that won't always happen and it's the good sides that have leaders to get things back on terms.  Obviously we hit the front, but looking at the disparity of possessions we weren't likely to prevail. 

It was dreadful. We had a very typical day out when nobody led, old hands kicked it down the throat of the opposition and the coaching box made no creative changes which might have shaken things up a bit.

There was nothing like stick Hogan on the ball to stop him whinging, or put Jones across half back to cut off easy ball in.

It was just the typical Melbourne slow motion train crash.

[Demonland 64,807]

DEE TRAIN DEE RAILED by George on The Outer

After a promising start to the season with three NAB Challenge wins and another in the opening game of the season proper, everyone was lining up to board the Dee-train for 2016.

The trouble is that it barely got out of the station before the supporters realised there were too many passengers (again!) and no-one was driving the locomotive.  

When players start believing their own publicity, and take a win against a crippled side for granted, then it seems Melbourne will guarantee an insipid performance and lose the un-loseable. Against the Bombers, with a side made up of retired geriatrics and kids, the performance was simply putrid.

Gold Coast showed how to beat Essendon last week.  Come on hard, early and put a couple of quick goals on the board, and they will wilt.  No, our players came out half-hearted and expected someone, anyone to lift the tempo.  

Of course no-one did. And we continually gifted them goals with simply appalling turnovers.  This kept them in the game and built their hopes.  The end result was a foregone conclusion from the 1st quarter.

Just as equally disappointing was the lack of response from the coaching box. Thank heavens Joe Daniher cannot kick straight, because the game would have been over at half-time.  But all day long he was allowed to go one-on-one with his respective opponent, be that McDonald or Garland.  His height will always win out and it did.  

Contrast that with the double and triple teaming against Jesse Hogan.  That is how a coach can shut down a dominant forward, but nothing was done in 100 minutes of football.And we allowed Essendon to have unmarked wingers for the majority of the game.  

How a 2nd gamer in Tipungwuti was allowed such freedom to move the ball forward without an obvious opponent was damning.  His 20 disposals was more than 18 of the Melbourne players!

The selection panel has plenty to answer for again, for the omission of Dunn (save his having a mystery injury) left the team without a viable third tall in the backline and also someone who can kick beyond 50m to clear the zone that Essendon had set.  He may not provide the run, but he doesn’t have to if he repels the attacks in the first place!

Disappointingly, the mids failed to provide the necessary advantage that Gawn was providing in the ruck.  Not at the centre bounce, but the lack of intensity around the ground where it was needed most.  But that was only emblematic of a team going at half-pace.  

Brayshaw was obviously not ready for the seniors and ran out of puff early on, but Oliver showed his class with his efforts when he was injected into the middle.  Matt Jones needs to stay at Casey permanently as he is just not up to AFL standard, two of his turnovers resulting directly in Essendon goals.  

Jack Viney and Nathan Jones battled all day, but Bernie Vince provided little, despite 28 possessions. Dean Kent in contrast provided nothing with only 5 touches. Ben Kennedy was fantastic and stood out in stark contrast to others on the field. With three goals and 21 touches, 11 of them contested, he was exactly the role model for winning.  Sadly, others didn’t follow.

Jeff Garlett is exciting when on song, but provided little in forward pressure.  Hogan was similarly inclined, so the ball bounced out of attack all too frequently.  

This was a disgraceful performance from the side, not untypical of the worst of the past couple of years.  

How much have we progressed?  Have we progressed?

There is a good case to say nothing at all if you watched today’s game.  Against the bigger bodies at North in Tassie next weekend we will struggle, if this effort is the best we can produce.

Melbourne 1.4.10 6.4.40 7.7.49 10.7.67

Essendon 2.2.14  7.7.49 8.10.58 11.14.80

Goals
Melbourne Kennedy 3 Garlett 2 Brayshaw Harmes Hogan Oliver Watts

Essendon Brown Daniher Z Merrett 2 Hartley, Kommer, Langford, Parish Stokes

Best

Melbourne Kennedy N Jones Viney Gawn
Essendon Z Merrett Daniher Zaharakis Parish J Merrett Goddard Kelly McDonald-Tipungwuti

Changes

Melbourne Nil

Essendon Nil

Injuries  

Melbourne Nil

Essendon Fantasia (knee) Matt Dea (nose)

Reports

Melbourne Nil

Essendon Patrick Ambrose for rough conduct on James Harmes in the second quarter.

Umpires Fisher, Stephens, Pannell

Official crowd 50,424 at the MCG

[dee-luded 2,958]

13 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Why?  The coaches certainly wouldn't be telling them it will be an easy afternoon.  The coaches can only do so much,

They will take the blame for selection though, no doubt about that.

Yesterday's loss will be a big lesson for the players Re believing things they read in papers & forums,  & the feelings they get thru the weeks from people they meet,  Re the clubs pending arrival, & upcoming games,  & their attitude to the game in front of them.

[Redleg 37,576]

Well written George. 

You can see why I wanted Terkich and Matt Jones delisted for a couple of kids to be drafted with some pace. The turnovers kill you.  

However we have a winner. Harry Lumumba is the turnover king of the AFL. 

[dee-luded 2,958]

12 hours ago, DemonLad5 said:

Yeah. Ok then..

interesting,,,,, tough minds & mostly imports ??????????  Jones is out of a box.

12 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

I think that's fair. Jeffy a little unlucky as well.

cameos don't count

 

 

[chook fowler 18,226]

24 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Look, I've heard enough to know that the players (in the main) don't like Roos, but love Goodwin.

How much difference does this make on GameDay and, more generally, 2016 ?  I have no idea.  

But I suspect it makes "some" difference. 

It's not a matter of liking, but respect. I don't think a lot of players liked Matthews or many of the other great coaches because they often have to be told what they don't want to hear. Stuff them they are highly paid professionals and should start to act as such.

[Robot Devil 1,895]

We're famous! 

Well, not me... Nobody cares what I think. 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Robot Devil

[doc roet 1,199]

What got me up and about at the start of this year was that our team on paper looks the goods.

Hogan with his fine performance last year,Jones with his neck fixed,Viney,Brayshaw,-------the whole team has talent there

give or take a few weak links,and our performance in the nab cup.The players list Petracca,Trenners coming back.The first 5 mins of the game against GWS last week

was outstanding.Then it all started to fall away and we were lucky to win.

Then seeing Essendon get a thrashing 17-19 to 9-6 against gold coast,well, we will definitely roll them next week.

Then to come out and perform like yesterday,so deflating.My fear was Joe Danaher doing what he did.

Against gold coast,7 kicks,5 marks 1-1

Against us,14 kicks,15 marks,2-4 ,could have been 6 straight again.

Over inflated mind set from the beginning

Great summary George.