POSTGAME: Rd 05 vs Brisbane

[Gawndy the Great 7,476]

22 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

There was one awful play by Petracca, we get the turnover and quick connection then Petracca is out in space.

He then proceeds to stop to "lower the eyes" , no one is inside our fwd 50. 3 seconds later he kicks it high and long to no one. Turnover to the Lions.

Fritsch was screaming for the ball just outside of 50, granted he was on the opposite flank but Petracca never saw him. 

But tbh, why didn't he decided to keep carrying the ball and then have a kick at goal from 45. He has enough space to do it and most of the Brisbane backs were running to their goal square. Mind blowing stuff 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

Perceived pressure and lack of game awareness. Both aspects that are probably linked to confidence.

 

We keep getting beaten the same way and Lions didn't do anything different last night to overcome this. Why?

How does Goodwin escape scrutiny here? He cannot put it down to effort and the playing group and has to take some accountability. Given our midfield performance of late, one has to ask the question as to whether we did the right thing in hiring Mini as well - he has not started well. 

With a mere 12 hours of reflection, there are a few thoughts crossing my mind atm.

1. The 4-1 start was a bit of a statistical anomaly. We were lucky to beat Port and boy did we look ordinary against Adelaide. Hawks and Doggies were the only games were we looked like a good team. Perhaps this game was a bit of reality check and we really are 6-12 team. Carlton and Geelong games will give us enough data to put this to bed, but right now the win/loss is flattering and our numbers tell a different story that will not be sustainable. 

2. Did the off-field drama and desire to prove a point mean we gave it our all in the first 5 rounds, leaving the team spent and helpless against Lions?

3. Have we really adjusted our game plan? Our corridor usage (which we didnt see a lot of last night) was poor and easily shut down by Lions, who gave us the wings that lead us to boring predictable Melbourne. 

4. Where was our pressure? Lions are dismantled with intense pressure - cannot let them have their uncontested game. If me, a mere amateur at best in footy tactics can see this, how on earth does a professional outfit not see this and execute? 

Like most, i'm a bit lost on Melbourne. I didn't have much hope coming into the season, got sucked in by 4 straight wins and again after last nights game am confused as to what awaits us for the remainder of the season. You can lose and still have hope, but that game was confidence shattering - still makes me feel sick to the stomach. 

[poita 3,623]

Hard to know what to make of that effort. We looked dead tired in the fourth quarter against Adelaide, and I was afraid that we would struggle to get up for the Brisbane game. Ideally we would have had a bye, then played Brisbane next Thursday ahead of the Anzac Eve game. Nevertheless, that wasn't to be, and we needed to find a way to get minds and bodies right for last night. On that count we failed dismally.

The lack of effort from the midfielders collectively was appalling. Gawn's ruck work was all over the shop, but at least he was prepared to follow up and have a real crack at ground level. We got next to nothing from Petracca and Viney when the game was alive, and Oliver clearly needs a lengthy rest. Sparrow remains a disappointment, although his effort is generally okay, and Rivers was probably the best of a sorry bunch. The reality is that we were beaten in the midfield against Port, probably broke level with an average group against Adelaide and were belted by Brisbane. We have many issues in there, one of which is our lack of depth (as I pointed out prior to the season).

Langdon works hard but really doesn't contribute much. Windsor will be a really good player in a year or two, but ran around like a headless chook for most of last night. Billings does some nice things amid a deluge of ordinary ones. I don't want Hunter back in the side, but he'll almost certainly return if he plays well tomorrow.

May and Lever were disappointing early, but stood up well after quarter time under constant pressure. McDonald was excellent. McVee had a poor game, and Howes clearly shouldn't be playing at this level (and wouldn't if Bowey and Hore were available). Salem getting injured early was sub-optimal, but his inability to string meaningful stretches of football together makes him a liability for a (supposed) premiership contender. I thought Woewodin battled away okay, but was clearly out of position and out of his depth. Overall to get away with conceding 82 points in those circumstances was a pretty good effort.

We didn't make life at all easy for our forwards, but only Chandler could hold his head high. Three goals in three quarters is just abysmal. Tholstrup clearly wasn't ready, but still contributed more than Laurie would have. Van Rooyen has regressed significantly, and Brown and Petty clearly can't play in the same forward line. I have no idea why those three don't run at the football, but instead wait for the ball to be kicked on top of their heads. I'd almost rather we cleared the entire 50m arc out and allowed Fritsch and Chandler to operate in there with space in front of them, while the three talls warm the bench.

Hopefully its as simple as resting some tired minds and bodies, and we will be in better shape for Richmond and Geelong. We really need to win both of those games, because Carlton off a five day break will be tough. Our woeful lack of depth and some boneheaded list management decisions are really starting to cause issues, and nothing other than a big clean out at year end will fix this. 

 

 

 

[whatwhat say what 19,091]

47 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

There was one awful play by Petracca, we get the turnover and quick connection then Petracca is out in space.

He then proceeds to stop to "lower the eyes" , no one is inside our fwd 50. 3 seconds later he kicks it high and long to no one. Turnover to the Lions.

Fritsch was screaming for the ball just outside of 50, granted he was on the opposite flank but Petracca never saw him. 

But tbh, why didn't he decided to keep carrying the ball and then have a kick at goal from 45. He has enough space to do it and most of the Brisbane backs were running to their goal square. Mind blowing stuff 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

it's moments like exactly that where i think for all his undoubted qualities trac is not a 'smart' footballer

[Deeko2 698]

Fascinating game to watch.

The game was lost primarily in the midfield.  We were smashed there by a very very good Brisbane midfield.

They put a lot of work into Trac and Viney and they had no impact which is a bit of a surprise.  But the bigger surprise was seeing Oliver lining up outside on the back flank for a lot of the night where he looked a bit lost and probably cost us a couple.

Still, I'm not sure why we rarely saw Clayton playing directly as an inside mid.  The group is clearly trialling something or his injury/fitness is preventing something.... I don't know.

Can't get to angry at the forwards when they had bugger all supply for the first three quarters although, like the defenders, there were a few contests in which I think some of players really didn't fully commit to which isn't a good look.

 

 

[WalkingCivilWar 32,083]

20 minutes ago, samcantstandya said:

Thought what Answerth did was pathetic and a reflection of his [censored] character. Thought the same of Sydney's Parker against Essendon. Dislike both.

Fully agree on that POS Answerth. What’s laughable is Zorko saying it’s not on and he’s gonna have a word to Answerth about it. It’s like, you started the whole pathetic thing, you moron, remember?!

But if your second sentence is referring to this, I most definitely don’t agree. That wasn’t even on the same planet as Answerth’s gesture. It was hilarious, it wasn’t malicious, personally it made me stop hating Luke Parker and best of all, it was directed at an 🤮 Essendon 🤮 player so it’s all G 😁

 

[ElDiablo14 3,135]

37 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Perceived pressure and lack of game awareness. Both aspects that are probably linked to confidence.

 

We keep getting beaten the same way and Lions didn't do anything different last night to overcome this. Why?

How does Goodwin escape scrutiny here? He cannot put it down to effort and the playing group and has to take some accountability. Given our midfield performance of late, one has to ask the question as to whether we did the right thing in hiring Mini as well - he has not started well. 

With a mere 12 hours of reflection, there are a few thoughts crossing my mind atm.

1. The 4-1 start was a bit of a statistical anomaly. We were lucky to beat Port and boy did we look ordinary against Adelaide. Hawks and Doggies were the only games were we looked like a good team. Perhaps this game was a bit of reality check and we really are 6-12 team. Carlton and Geelong games will give us enough data to put this to bed, but right now the win/loss is flattering and our numbers tell a different story that will not be sustainable. 

2. Did the off-field drama and desire to prove a point mean we gave it our all in the first 5 rounds, leaving the team spent and helpless against Lions?

3. Have we really adjusted our game plan? Our corridor usage (which we didnt see a lot of last night) was poor and easily shut down by Lions, who gave us the wings that lead us to boring predictable Melbourne. 

4. Where was our pressure? Lions are dismantled with intense pressure - cannot let them have their uncontested game. If me, a mere amateur at best in footy tactics can see this, how on earth does a professional outfit not see this and execute? 

Like most, i'm a bit lost on Melbourne. I didn't have much hope coming into the season, got sucked in by 4 straight wins and again after last nights game am confused as to what awaits us for the remainder of the season. You can lose and still have hope, but that game was confidence shattering - still makes me feel sick to the stomach. 

Definitely a roller coaster with this team.

Round 0 we were grim, then 4 wins got our hopes high. Now everything just came crashing down again.

I too want to question the perceived inability of the coaching staff to motivate and prepare the team,week in and week out, to perform to a competitive level.

Of course we can't win them all, but you just have to be competitive every single time you are out there on the field.

[waynewussell 4,092]

Petty is the forward who gave us next to nothing. Can't play him back because McDonald is solid in defence. Ben Brown and Roo played well in the final qtr. Petty goes! Who comes in for HP depends on tomorrow's VFL game. Maybe we do without the third tall forward. I would definitely retain Windsor. I would keep Tholstrop as well, but if Hunter plays, and plays well in VFL, he will come in. Kossie comes back! Woewodin gets full game at VFL. 

[BLWNBA 353]

59 minutes ago, samcantstandya said:

Thought what Answerth did was pathetic and a reflection of his [censored] character. Thought the same of Sydney's Parker against Essendon. Dislike both.

Swings and roundabouts. I'm surprised there wasn't more of it. 

[spirit of norm smith 12,978]

4.  I have to admit that seeing Clarry in defence and having no idea about defensive play was another coaching mistake. (Are we allowed to query Goodys decisions?). He looked scared with the footy in the back 25 and often misjudged the play.  His mistake to let Cameron goal in the 3rd was a shocker.  Often he handballed to a bloke under more pressure rather than kicking it clear out of defensive 50. His poor night was not the reason we lost but surely Goodys realised HBF is not Clarrys role.  

Edited April 12 by spirit of norm smith
4

[The heart beats true 16,237]

Clayton is clearly injured, Brayshaw was our mop up player down back, then Salem had to quickly adjust to that after training all season as a mid. Now that’s done.

We had to try something. I doubt the plan was to play Woey as a defender on McCarthy either. We shuffled around but it was always going to be tough with Clarry underdone and then Salem down.

Edited April 12 by The heart beats true

[Clintosaurus 6,473]

2 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

I swear Demonland post loss is unhinged. 

It's the end of the world after every loss. Even wins are not much better.

[Deemania since 56 6,165]

We are better than what we  saw against Brisbane. 

[MrFreeze 1,396]

2 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

I'm not sure if we can dismiss this loss on being tired.

It looked like many were. My reason is that the backline performed very well in restricting the lions to 80 points.

They dominated us everywhere and did kick a big score.

Was our backline fatigued. Maybe but it certainly did it's job  in some ways 

I guess we lacked attacking run from defence. But credit to stopping a huge percentage loss.

 

Not just fatigue related, the defence was quite leaky in the first, Rick says as much here 

[jnrmac 19,059]

2 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Its infuriating to watch as we appeared helpless, chasing tails. The lesson for Brisbane is clear, you need to keep the ball in motion, both with ball in hand and defensively. If you give them the uncontested game, they are unstoppable. Its how Pies beat them this year and in the GF. 

They are also really good with ball in motion, but it can be defeated by intense pressure on the ball. 

I dont know if anybody has access to the pressure index, but i'd be surprised if we were anything over 170. Whereas the Lions were probably 190-200+ for most of the game. 

Infuriating is one word. Dumb is another. They played the same way against us over the last 4 games. 3 losses for us and a 1 pt win.

Poor teams like Hawthorn can't keep it up for 4 qtrs but good sides can.

We have no answer for the chip and give game style when good sides do it. Watching it live it is blindingly obvious what their tactics are. Our inability to combat it was appalling

Clarry at half back and even first gamer Kolt in the middle at one stage? What the hell?

Raynor playing like a superstar. Brisbane blocking our mids to give Neale a clean run ever stoppage. 

Hopeless coaching and leadership last night.

 

[Winners at last 4,742]

"Things are never as bad as they seem."

 

Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird.

[rpfc 27,501]

Can’t win when your midfield gets smashed like that, and outworked around the ground.

We will find out 12 days whether it’s an anomaly.

[Deemania since 56 6,165]

10 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Wow, you sure are hellbent on ditching Clarrie. This is the second thread tonight in which you’ve suggested we trade him. You say he’s a country mile away from the player “we know he can be” which begs the question: why would we trade him when we know what he can (and will again) be? He’s playing with the fingers of one hand strapped together ffs. 

It's called 'football', but getting the ball is 'handball'. Collect the ball, pick up the ball, place the ball for good kicking - short or long alongside incredibly talented handball distribution normally associated with our master of the game. With a 50% reduction in hand availability and execution efficiency in its full sense, Clarrie played really well. He should have been 'rested' lest the Brisbane game cause further injury, not concentrated recovery from a serious wound. It's not Clarrie that deserves criticism or re-iterated, disparaging comments, it is 'whoever put him on the field'.

[leave it to deever 15,681]

Footy momentum is wonderful.

24 hours ago we were one of the four contenders for the flag.

Now we are just another club out of eight.

It's not panic stations but it's certainly a big shift from where we were.

But we've had a tough draw with three interstate games 

[SPC 2,829]

Gee I hope we have the Brisbane return leg circled in the fixture… the [censored] you ‘Noah Answorth Cup’ or ‘whatever his [censored] name is’ cup. 
I want a win, I want a bruising win.. I want ownership of an arrogant team of soft, sooky, front runners. And I want to see tears.. 

[Pennant St Dee 11,324]

3 hours ago, H_T said:

We had an extra day on Brisbane. An 8 day break. We weren’t shagged. We were fresh if anything at all. 
 

The pathetic excuses being rolled out by many are intolerable, insipid just like the display last night in perfect conditions.

Lions were coming off

Bye

8 day break

6 day break

Dees

7 day break 

5 day break 

7 day break

3 games in 23 days vs 4 games in 19 days. So whilst we won’t overlook the fundamental errors and issues let’s not pretend we weren’t looking a little flat and the above didn’t play some contributing factor 

[TassieDevil 98]

Answorth needs to be cited for his sledge on Petty imitating he was crying - conduct unbecoming/ bringing the game into disrepute

[Demonland 65,486]

 

[Pennant St Dee 11,324]

3 minutes ago, TassieDevil said:

Answorth needs to be cited for his sledge on Petty imitating he was crying - conduct unbecoming/ bringing the game into disrepute

Yeah nah, don’t give it any air time and let the players put it into the memory bank is how it should be dealt with 

[leave it to deever 15,681]

38 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

Not just fatigue related, the defence was quite leaky in the first, Rick says as much here 

I thought they performed pretty well all round.

[titan_uranus 22,456]

Since Round 1 2021 we've only lost 8 H&A games at the MCG, including last night (out of a total of 39 H&A games played at the G). Whilst we've also lost the four finals, the point about losing H&A games is that H&A games are where we prognosticate about our finals/flag chances. And the point about the MCG is that that is where the majority of us members go to watch us play live.

Also, this is the earliest into a year we've lost at the G since 2019 (we lost in Round 3, 2020, but that was on 28 June given the COVID shutdown, and was played in front of no crowd). We didn't lose at the G in 2021 until July whilst in 2022-23 we didn't lose until the last weekend of May.

So last night, we all walk away being somewhat "shocked" by losing, because we just aren't used to it of late, and particularly not this early into a season. We're all a little shaken by it and it naturally makes us start to question 2024. 

I think that explains why there have been so many posts here along the lines of "I don't know what to make of our season", or "I was sucked into the four wins", or "we weren't really any good against Port/Adelaide". 

I don't actually think last night tells us much we didn't already know. We are not talented enough forward of centre to win games when we are beaten in the midfield. The same thing happened in Opening Round against Sydney. Not coincidentally, Pickett missed both games. A low inside 50 count makes winning hard enough but doing it with a sub-optimal forward 6 missing its most naturally talented ground ball player makes it near-impossible.

We can keep ourselves in games with our collective defensive effort. It's been said a lot but keeping Brisbane to 82 points and 22 scoring shots was a great effort given how dominant they were in the other two-thirds of the ground.  Indeed, if Trac had kicked that goal after the JVR goal, the margin would have been back to 30 points with 9 minutes on the clock, and we'd have kicked 3 goals in about 2 minutes. The Brisbane supporters around me were already nervous before his miss, given what happened late in our game last year, and the Melbourne crowd was awakening. The fact we were even able to be in that position at all was due to our ability to restrict their score through the first three quarters.

But as much as we keep ourselves in games, we also know that when push comes to shove we are prone to being beaten when we are not on top in the middle. So we can't keep playing an unfit Clarry, or an unfit Viney, or an unfit Trac (Clarry's clearly unfit, Trac came off a lot yesterday and was getting strapping so it won't surprise me if he's carrying something, and Viney looked like he still had the flu a week later). We certainly can't play multiple unfit midfielders. When Pickett doesn't play we need to find someone else to inject spark into our CBAs, and we probably need to accelerate the transition of Rivers into the middle because his run and carry is needed there. I doubt we'll see a collective Oliver-Trac-Viney failure like last night again, but if we do, bank on a loss, because we aren't good enough to cover for it.