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CHANGES: Rd 12 vs Sydney


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4 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Yep, all fair mate, and you are absolutely not alone in your expectations for him.

I'm just resigned/accepting of him always being a depth player for us. I think there's always a need for that and if he manages to kick a few (albeit smaller) bags every now and then like he has this year in a couple of games then that's a bonus.

I think given his likely contract amount and list positioning; he won't be preventing us from bringing in another first choice key forward when the time comes (if he's still around).

Agree on all points

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1 hour ago, Deespicable said:

Been a while since I've been interested in posting a comment - such has been our regular winning scenario, but alas all good things come to and end and the selection microscope is now upon us.

First point I'll make is the surprise at the number of people who don't seem to yet fully understand that five outs and five ins doesn't really add up if you include the sub as one of your outs - ie: Dunstan. 

I think we all get that, if they pass their fitness test, there will be five ins with Tomlinson replacing May and the fab four - Langdon, Harmes, T.Mac and Salem all back.

Melksham is clearly going to be out and sadly a couple of hard calls on premiership players have to be made.

The first is Rivers, who unless you have forgotten, was on Freo's matchwinner Frederick in the second half. Rivers has been solid all year, but never great and never in our best five or six. He needs to go back to the magoos and he needs the club to decide if he is a swingman who can play on the bigs or a swingman who can just play on the smalls. Effectively his spot has been taken by Angus this year. Rivers needs to dominate for Casey and if he does, he will come back a better player. He is young and I still think he has some Corey Enright type qualities, but he has to realise he can do even more. Steve Waugh was eventually dropped and it was the making of him.

The second is Tom Sparrow, who was ineffectual against Freo's mids and when playing as a high half-forward barely sighted. We all know Tom works his butt off and he's been pretty handy in heaps of games, how can anyone forget his game against Richmond. But like Rivers he needs to go back and dominate the VFL, so that he takes that dominate attitude into the AFL. He is also young and now is the time to make him earn his spot. 

Some of you have tipped Hunt to be dropped instead of Rivers but he is exactly the player to match up on Papley, as he has been on Bolton and other lively small forwards that play near the goalsquare this season and has played heaps tighter than in the past. The argument would be that Salem can play on Papley, but I just don't reckon Salem needs that added pressure in his first game back and he will more than have his hands full with others anyway - most likely Hayward who was the Swans best against Richmond.

That leaves Bowey on Wicks (who might yet be dropped for Stephens) and Angus on Heeney. With Franklin out (barring the AFL intervening), they will bring in Amartey to go with Reid and McDonald. Petty (if fit), Tomlinson and Lever will mark them.

The tricky decision for our selectors is which of Ben Brown and the Weid is omitted for T.Mac. It's a tough choice because McCartin has been terrific as a marking interceptor and Brown has been out of form in recent weeks and Weid quiet but he showed some smarts in defence in a couple of key plays when sent back last week.

Keeping Bedford ahead of Sparrow also alters our balance a tad, but I reckon we have to send Sparrow and Rivers back to the VFL for a few weeks for their development and having each other down there will be an added spur.

I also would have liked to see Laurie play, but he had a quiet one against the Frangers last week and Van Rooyen was injured/ill.

Anyway for me it's:

In: Salem, Langdon, Harmes, T.Macdonald, Tomlinson

Out: May (inj), Sparrow, Rivers, Melksham, Weid plus Dunstan, last week's sub.

And given we are already playing an extra small with Toby, I'd make Weid the sub.

 

    

Whilst I think you make some really good points I disagree with Sparrow.

He had a poor game on the weekend but he simply won't be dropped. Prior to the freo game his form has been solid enough and I doubt he gets dropped off the back of 1 poor game.

He's playing a support role for Oliver and Petracca and does he's bit when he's giving these guys a chop out. He's sacrificing a fair bit for the benefit of our 2 superstars.

Oliver and Petracca have in the past, raved on about the likes of Sparrow, Jordon and Harmes who support these guys being able to do what they on field.

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47 minutes ago, binman said:

I can't see Weed behind any good as a defender becuase with his size it would have to be in a key post, and he is simply not good enough in the sort of one on one wrestle situations against big forward he would find himself in regularly down back. 

And i can't see him being a natural intercept type like Liam Jones - the pin up boy for a forward to a defender shift.

So, if he can't make it as a key forward the sad reality is he is a bust - at least for us. 

Which means we have problem in that second tall forward role. 

Even the biggest Tmac critics and/or Weed fans would surely  acknowledge the Tmac v Weed debate is over and the second tall forward role is Tmacs. 

If Tmac is injured again i think they have to look past Weed as a fill in. JVR is not ready yet, and i don't think will be until next year.

So, if not Weed, who comes in?

What do people think about Tomlinson playing the second tall forward role?

Tomlinson is only slightly shorter and lighter than Weed, is much stronger and much, much better one on one. And crucially he plays with much more intensity than Sam and would halve more contests. 

If memory serves, whilst predominately a winger and defender with the Giants, Tomlinson played some games at CHF for the them. Having a look at his record he kicked 12 goals in 2018, so perhaps he played forward a bit that year. 

And having Tomlinson in the team would provide the positional flexibility Tmac provides as he could go back if required (and even, like Tom, to the wing)

Thoughts?

 

I get where you are coming from Binman re Tomlinson being more physical but I'm not sure he is a forward

If he is to be part of the tall forward solution I think its more likely that he does so by releasing either Petty or J Smith from the back six

I realise Smith is injured so isn't an option right now but I've always held a view that he should have been trialed more as a forward. He does have the strength to go one on one, can leap, take a contested mark and a lot quicker than either Weid or BB - is his kicking reliable - not 100% sure.

I'm sure people here will say he has been tried and failed as a forward - that is BS in my view he has played very few games and most in the back six 

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29 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Whilst I think you make some really good points I disagree with Sparrow.

He had a poor game on the weekend but he simply won't be dropped. Prior to the freo game his form has been solid enough and I doubt he gets dropped off the back of 1 poor game.

He's playing a support role for Oliver and Petracca and does he's bit when he's giving these guys a chop out. He's sacrificing a fair bit for the benefit of our 2 superstars.

Oliver and Petracca have in the past, raved on about the likes of Sparrow, Jordon and Harmes who support these guys being able to do what they on field.

Completely agreed.

Furthermore if we don't keep giving the likes of JJ and Sparrow games, we are really doing ourselves a disservice, as we need to keep developing the next generation of midfielders. 

We don't have great depth in this area and IMO Sparrow has all the makings of a very very good inside mid who can also go outside and impact the scoreboard. He can be anything, but he needs time to develop and he won't have a better chance to develop than under 2 of the best mids in the competition (not to mention the best ruck duo and Viney protecting him). 

He is contributing each and every week, and even if he has a quiet game, he deserves to maintain his spot, especially as there is nobody at Casey knocking the door down in this role (and I would pick Sparrow over Dunstan every  single day of the week). 

 

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In Hibberd        Out Bowie (young guy needs a rest)

     Salem                   Bedford (one small too many)

     TMac                    Weideman (Not the flexibility to go back half)

     Langdon                Jordan (Brayshaw comes up to wing)

     Harmes                 Melksham (congrats on 200)

      Thomlinson          May (concussion)

Jordon becomes sub.

 

 

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This is a relatively easy selection week.

Next week with Salem to return is the harder one. Salem will play in the VFL this weekend.

Hibberd didn't play a full game against Frankston so he has another VFL round this week.

Outs: May, Melksham Weideman Bedford

Ins Tomlinson, Harmes McDonald Langdon
Medi sub... probably Bedford

Caveat: I'm not sure Petty is 100%

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7 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Why Hunt? Until the Freo game has played on small forwards and kept them quiet all year. By necessity, was required to play on Freo's tall forwards (because he's stronger and taller than Bowey, and Rivers is struggling) until Weideman was transferred back. Yes, he was outpointed by Darcy but at 187cm and 88kg, Hunt is still 16cm shorter and 24kg lighter than Darcy. 

If a defender has to make way for Salem, I suspect it will be Rivers. Of course, if Langdon doesn't play, Brayshaw could return to the wing instead.

I agree, Rivers has been quite poor for a while but seems to get a pass. Good player but could do with a spell I reckon

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1 hour ago, stinga said:

In Hibberd        Out Bowie (young guy needs a rest)

     Salem                   Bedford (one small too many)

     TMac                    Weideman (Not the flexibility to go back half)

     Langdon                Jordan (Brayshaw comes up to wing)

     Harmes                 Melksham (congrats on 200)

      Thomlinson          May (concussion)

Jordon becomes sub.

 

 

No way Jordon or Bowza misses out. Both have been very consistent and quite prolific. Bowza’s disposal has suffered a bit but is still better than average. Hunt has been reasonable as a lockdown small defender but his ball use is a bit Sam Frost. He also seems to have lost a bit of pace and is not breaking away the way he has done previously. I don’t think Hibbo is ready and may struggle to get a game unless injury necessitates.

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19 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

I didn't say he'd be worse than Weideman. What I said was that Werridee seems to think he's capable of almost anything, when in reality he is a fringe forward.

That isn't necessarily true, and doesn't mean he'd be any good in defence. We put Weideman down there and he failed. Brown likely would too, given he hasn't trained in defence for years.

So when you say "he gives us flexibility", you're just making that up because you like him. He's as inflexible as Weideman - the two of them are depth forwards. He also doesn't "play small".

You can argue that he's a better option for Weideman's spot, fine, but that's not because he's flexible or because he can be put into defence or play small. It's solely because he's a tall forward, Weideman's a tall forward, Weideman's out of form and Brown's possibly capable of doing better as a tall forward.

It like saying McDonald can't play back because he's a forward. Brown has proven he can play back and when has Weideman actually been in form he's always out of form.

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18 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

No way Jordon or Bowza misses out. Both have been very consistent and quite prolific. Bowza’s disposal has suffered a bit but is still better than average. 

Agree on the above. I don't understand the issue with Jordan, watching him clsoely all season as he plays on the wing closest to our seats, and Bowza's decison making is elite, as identified as a key factor of Taylor's when drafting him. 

Essential to have that in defence, cool head under pressure and he's more than worth his spot, even with a down day last week he had plenty of mates.

 

Edited by Demon17
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7 hours ago, binman said:

.....

What do people think about Tomlinson playing the second tall forward role?

Tomlinson is only slightly shorter and lighter than Weed, is much stronger and much, much better one on one. And crucially he plays with much more intensity than Sam and would halve more contests. 

If memory serves, whilst predominately a winger and defender with the Giants, Tomlinson played some games at CHF for the them. Having a look at his record he kicked 12 goals in 2018, so perhaps he played forward a bit that year. 

And having Tomlinson in the team would provide the positional flexibility Tmac provides as he could go back if required (and even, like Tom, to the wing)

Thoughts?

 

 

7 hours ago, Jontee said:

Smacks of desperation, but worth a try.  I like Tommo but he doesn't have a leap.  Would have to play a real physical game.

I would think more along the lines of maybe Tommo playing back releasing Petty to go forward, if the forward structure fails to fire.

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4 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

It like saying McDonald can't play back because he's a forward. Brown has proven he can play back and when has Weideman actually been in form he's always out of form.

What world are you living in where Mitch Brown has "proven he can play back"?

He's a depth forward, that's all he's ever trained as with us. TMac also isn't a defender, and we don't select him as a defender any more. We throw him back in games where we have injuries we need to cover, which is different.

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8 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Been a while since I've been interested in posting a comment - such has been our regular winning scenario, but alas all good things come to and end and the selection microscope is now upon us.

First point I'll make is the surprise at the number of people who don't seem to yet fully understand that five outs and five ins doesn't really add up if you include the sub as one of your outs - ie: Dunstan. 

I think we all get that, if they pass their fitness test, there will be five ins with Tomlinson replacing May and the fab four - Langdon, Harmes, T.Mac and Salem all back.

Melksham is clearly going to be out and sadly a couple of hard calls on premiership players have to be made.

The first is Rivers, who unless you have forgotten, was on Freo's matchwinner Frederick in the second half. Rivers has been solid all year, but never great and never in our best five or six. He needs to go back to the magoos and he needs the club to decide if he is a swingman who can play on the bigs or a swingman who can just play on the smalls. Effectively his spot has been taken by Angus this year. Rivers needs to dominate for Casey and if he does, he will come back a better player. He is young and I still think he has some Corey Enright type qualities, but he has to realise he can do even more. Steve Waugh was eventually dropped and it was the making of him.

The second is Tom Sparrow, who was ineffectual against Freo's mids and when playing as a high half-forward barely sighted. We all know Tom works his butt off and he's been pretty handy in heaps of games, how can anyone forget his game against Richmond. But like Rivers he needs to go back and dominate the VFL, so that he takes that dominate attitude into the AFL. He is also young and now is the time to make him earn his spot. 

Some of you have tipped Hunt to be dropped instead of Rivers but he is exactly the player to match up on Papley, as he has been on Bolton and other lively small forwards that play near the goalsquare this season and has played heaps tighter than in the past. The argument would be that Salem can play on Papley, but I just don't reckon Salem needs that added pressure in his first game back and he will more than have his hands full with others anyway - most likely Hayward who was the Swans best against Richmond.

That leaves Bowey on Wicks (who might yet be dropped for Stephens) and Angus on Heeney. With Franklin out (barring the AFL intervening), they will bring in Amartey to go with Reid and McDonald. Petty (if fit), Tomlinson and Lever will mark them.

The tricky decision for our selectors is which of Ben Brown and the Weid is omitted for T.Mac. It's a tough choice because McCartin has been terrific as a marking interceptor and Brown has been out of form in recent weeks and Weid quiet but he showed some smarts in defence in a couple of key plays when sent back last week.

Keeping Bedford ahead of Sparrow also alters our balance a tad, but I reckon we have to send Sparrow and Rivers back to the VFL for a few weeks for their development and having each other down there will be an added spur.

I also would have liked to see Laurie play, but he had a quiet one against the Frangers last week and Van Rooyen was injured/ill.

Anyway for me it's:

In: Salem, Langdon, Harmes, T.Macdonald, Tomlinson

Out: May (inj), Sparrow, Rivers, Melksham, Weid plus Dunstan, last week's sub.

And given we are already playing an extra small with Toby, I'd make Weid the sub.

Good post, but like others I don't agree that Sparrow should be dropped. Hasn't been bad enough for long enough to warrant it, yet.

As harsh as it is, I think it has to be Bedford who makes way instead of Sparrow. The balance of the side is out of whack if we bring back Langdon and Harmes and then keep Bedford along with Spargo, ANB and Pickett. With Bedford, we pushed Spargo up onto a wing. That wing spot won't be available, so what do we do with the excess small forward?

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4 hours ago, chook fowler said:

No way Jordon or Bowza misses out. Both have been very consistent and quite prolific. Bowza’s disposal has suffered a bit but is still better than average. Hunt has been reasonable as a lockdown small defender but his ball use is a bit Sam Frost. He also seems to have lost a bit of pace and is not breaking away the way he has done previously. I don’t think Hibbo is ready and may struggle to get a game unless injury necessitates.

I think hunty used his speed to close down smalls now 

He is no longer asked run and rebound as this exposes his disposal the most, and often leaves him running into traffic 

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1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

What world are you living in where Mitch Brown has "proven he can play back"?

He's a depth forward, that's all he's ever trained as with us. TMac also isn't a defender, and we don't select him as a defender any more. We throw him back in games where we have injuries we need to cover, which is different.

He played on Hogan and killed him. He can play down back just like McDonald. Why can't you get it through your thick skull?

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17 hours ago, Sydee said:

I realise Smith is injured so isn't an option right now but I've always held a view that he should have been trialed more as a forward. He does have the strength to go one on one, can leap, take a contested mark and a lot quicker than either Weid or BB - is his kicking reliable - not 100% sure.

He was played forward in pre-season 2019 I think (could be wrong year) before succumbing to his annual months long injury, and was our best goal scorer. It’s the only time I’ve seen him play forward, and he played precisely as you say. Used his athleticism to advantage, à la Naughton. 

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19 hours ago, binman said:

What do people think about Tomlinson playing the second tall forward role?

I think this is a good idea 'bin'...

Despite the talk of Weid being the backup I think it's not working so we try something else.

..and you're right, he doesn't have the attributes to go into defence.

In the end we need to find another 1 or 2 KPF's and can't afford to keep depth around for depth's sake.

If Tommo can do it, it will prolong his career with us.

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15 minutes ago, Webber said:

He was played forward in pre-season 2019 I think (could be wrong year) before succumbing to his annual months long injury, and was our best goal scorer. It’s the only time I’ve seen him play forward, and he played precisely as you say. Used his athleticism to advantage, à la Naughton. 

I really don't understand why they haven't put more time into him to develop his forward skills. We seem to have reasonable depth down back particularly with the emergence of Daniel Turner who I think may have a future 

I'm far from convinced that BB and Weid are capable of delivering consistently - our tall forward stocks are our biggest weakness if you ask me - the development of JVR and possibly the emergence of Joel Smith as tall forward options is really important if we are to improve  

 

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Sparrow got coaches votes as recently as the North game 2 weeks ago. No chance he gets dropped, but he certainly hasn't reached the stage of his career where he's playing a week in week out consistent high standard of footy.

In - Tomlinson, T Mac, Langdon, Harmes,

Out - May, Weid, Melksham, Bedford, Dunstan

I reckon the club would like to give BBB a run at Casey to rediscover some form and confidence  like they did with T Mac, but Weid just can't be trusted to step up in his absence.

Harmes' hammy must have been minor, as they usually miss 3-4 games. Assuming we take Goody at his word.

 

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4 minutes ago, Sydee said:

I really don't understand why they haven't put more time into him to develop his forward skills. We seem to have reasonable depth down back particularly with the emergence of Daniel Turner who I think may have a future 

I'm far from convinced that BB and Weid are capable of delivering consistently - our tall forward stocks are our biggest weakness if you ask me - the development of JVR and possibly the emergence of Joel Smith as tall forward options is really important if we are to improve  

 

My thought is they probably don’t see Joel Smith as having the footy smarts for KPF, and that a ‘role-playing’ defensive structure suits him better long term. Could be true. Also, I suspect he’d be seen as more fitting the Bailey Fritsch position, who has footy-smarts on tap, and was wasted down back (drove me crazy that they weren’t playing him forward). Nonetheless, If it were up to me, I’d give JS a go up forward (knowing he also has the defensive chops), and Weid down back. Still think Harry Petty is David Neitz-esque, and will end up as our next power forward, 

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