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Lucifer's Hero

2017 Keith ‘Bluey’ Truscott Memorial Trophy

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34 minutes ago, Nasher said:

As I said, without seeing the breakdown and being able to scrutinise that, I think it's baseless criticism. Re: the cardinal sin comment, my point has nothing to do with disagreeing or agreeing with the club. I was as surprised as you - I just thing it's a bridge too far to declare it "wrong".

Anyway by my calculations, the difference between 6th and 2nd was an average score of 0.3 points per coach each game - I've never really looked at this before so I have nothing to compare too, but that seems very close. I thought Hibberd's front half of the season would get him up higher in the count. 

Really wish we could see the vote spread.

Fair cop. Vote spread would certainly help understand how the coaches evaluate it.

I don't think it's baseless when you consider the number of games Hibberd was almost indsputably amongst the top handful of players on the ground. I don't necessarily need to see the voting to know that I wouldn't agree with the distribution when it results in him not even featuring in the top five But it's also my own view that this should've been a two horse race between Oliver and Hibberd with Jetta trailing behind, so that factors into my surprise at the outcome.

I accept it was a close result, and he probably doesn't give a rat's, but I do think it's a pity. He deserved some official recognition within the club for what was an outstanding season, all things considered.

 

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Well done Clayton. You set the standard now. 

Jordan Lewis. What a bargain,give us 1 more year and i am happy ? 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Viney probably got 100 votes each for the West Coast and Port games which would account for his high standing :lol:

errr no, likely 40 votes each. That is the maximum

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3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Well done Clayton. You set the standard now. 

Jordan Lewis. What a bargain,give us 1 more year and i am happy ? 

Clarry. So good to see that.

Hibberd for sure should've been top three? Guess it's a midfield award as they say.

Lewis is another two years, no? Seems good for it, for sure

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6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Well done Clayton. You set the standard now. 

Jordan Lewis. What a bargain,give us 1 more year and i am happy ? 

Interesting that the knockers have gone silent. His leadership is invaluable.

IMO Lewis' decision is also one of the reasons we might be getting Lever. When class players choose your club it attracts other class players. We have never had this before at our club. Its great.

 

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Congratulations to Clayton Oliver. Clearly our best player across the season and was always going to win by a big margin.

As for the rest, the less said the better. Even Viney as a surprising second place getter only picked up 346 votes out of a possible 720. That would give him an average rating of 4.8 / 10 across the 18 games he played. 

Not at all surprising, but the real concern for me is Gawn. 138 votes out of a possible 520 for an average rating of 2.6. That puts him 14th if he plays every game. Hopefully he takes it personally and has a massive pre season. We desperately need him to be at his best.

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9 hours ago, P-man said:

What standard was Lewis meeting when he was sitting in the stands after being suspended?

Come on. 

Agree. It should have been a night to reflect and celebrate

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3 minutes ago, poita said:

Congratulations to Clayton Oliver. Clearly our best player across the season and was always going to win by a big margin.

As for the rest, the less said the better. Even Viney as a surprising second place getter only picked up 346 votes out of a possible 720. That would give him an average rating of 4.8 / 10 across the 18 games he played. 

Not at all surprising, but the real concern for me is Gawn. 138 votes out of a possible 520 for an average rating of 2.6. That puts him 14th if he plays every game. Hopefully he takes it personally and has a massive pre season. We desperately need him to be at his best.

Gawn had a really poor season after coming back from injury. Clubs also worked him out a bit. Agree he needs to lift.

 

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I enjoyed Viney's talk on Oliver's work ethic (side note - how funny was Viney's spoiler. You're not supposed to announce the winner in your runner up speech!). I thought the fact that a renowned hard trainer like Viney said he tried to keep up with Oliver in the gym and couldn't, painted a very exciting picture.

You have to wonder how many other players there are out there with such unharnessed talent. Oliver ended up as a high pick but footy world was divided on him. He was a talented but overweight and unfit junior with no concept of how a professional athlete should train. He was told to lose weight, so he stopped eating. Even after a year at the club, he coasted in his first year, until he had a frank discussion with Brendan McCartney at the beginning of last pre-season, and had a lightbulb moment. He got paired up with Billy Stretch - a player who would have been groomed as a professional for his whole life by a parent who gets it. 

He got absolute reward for his new found application, and he strikes me as the sort of character who won't rest on his laurels now that he's seen the benefit of hard work. 

How good is it that after all these attempts in the draft in the last decade, we finally bloody found one?

Well done Clarry. A much deserved B&F; we're so excited to have you.

I'm ready for next year now.

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well done Clarry.

got a keeper here

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10 hours ago, Jaded said:

Taking a step back but I'm still struggling not to cry over that Trengove speech. What a wonderful man. Definitely proof that crappy things happen to great people. 

On balance, I'm one of those people who still prefer crappy things happening to good people rather than good things happening to crappy people.

9 hours ago, bing181 said:

Not a surprising or left-field winner in Oliver, though what is surprising is that he's done it only his second season. A legend looms.

On the other hand, speaking of left-field picks, Richard Thaler has just won the Nobel Prize in Economics. Unfavoured, even though he almost single-handedly turned Economics on its head and started a whole new field (Behavioural Economics).

Thaler has written quite a bit about drafting in American football etc., and I'm sure he would have approved of our strategy to land Clayton.

 

This is Demonland at its best. Mixing the Melbourne B&F with a discussion about economic theory.

As to the result itself, it's not just that he won, but it's also the size of the winning margin which I find extraordinary. Still, if the award is known as the "Bluey" I guess he already has a significant advantage (although it didn't seem to help Matthew Bate or Jordie McKenzie to the same extent).

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The hate aimed at this kid from AFL nuffies is Selwood-like. You know you've got a keep when opposition fans hate his guts, AND he's winning awards.

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35 minutes ago, No10 said:

Clarry. So good to see that.

Hibberd for sure should've been top three? Guess it's a midfield award as they say.

Lewis is another two years, no? Seems good for it, for sure

If Lewis gives the club another quality year he has done his job in my eyes

3rd year was what got him here

Quality rules Quantity

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so none of our rookie list players - tim smith 2 games, white 1, joel smith 3, maynard 1 - got a b&f vote all year?

seems odd

if you rationalise the votes across 22 games for everyone it shifts around a bit:

  1. 530 - Clayton Oliver
  2. 449.63 - Nathan Jones
  3. 422.89 - Jack Viney
  4. 388.67 - Michael Hibberd
  5. 378.63 - Jordan Lewis
  6. 321 - Neville Jetta
  7. 318.42 - Dom Tyson
  8. 304.53 - ANB
  9. 302 - Christian Petracca
  10. 297.52 - Garlett
  11. 290.13 - Frost
  12. 287.47 - Pedo
  13. 278 - Tom McDonald
  14. 277.89 - Vince
  15. 268.40 - Hogan
  16. 259.60 - Brayshaw
  17. 256 - Hunt
  18. 254.94 - Harmes
  19. 244.75 - Salem
  20. 237.60 - Hannan
  21. 236.50 - Watts
  22. 233.54 - Gawn
  23. 232.74 - Melksham
  24. 224.40 - Bugg
  25. 220.00 - Spencer
  26. 215.60 - O Mac
  27. 185.78 - Stretch
  28. 127.11 - Wagner
  29. 113.14 - Weideman
  30. 110 - Kent
  31. 88 - Trengove
  32. 29.33 - JKH

JKH averaged just over a vote a game...clearly one of the coaches likes him

Edited by DemonAndrew
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The voting spread is bizarre and shows the bias of the footy Dept....How on earth did Viney get so many votes? He himself admitted that he stunk in a number of games. I guess it helps if his old man sits in the box.  

The Bluey voting system is very well orchestrated... very much like thew stage coup in Turkey last year.

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It was so refreshing to hear Clayton's speech...

He actually sounded like a kid of his age should.

I'm so sick of the young kids turned out by the AFL sausage machine, they all sound the same, spout the same BS.

Good on you kid, you're a champ.

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I watched about a third of the show. So the following comment is based on limited exposure.

Did the show seem subdued of was it just the bits I watched?

 

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For all the angst re: Dom Tyson, the coaches obviously rate him.

 

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4 hours ago, poita said:

As for the rest, the less said the better. Even Viney as a surprising second place getter only picked up 346 votes out of a possible 720. That would give him an average rating of 4.8 / 10 across the 18 games he played. 

Not at all surprising, but the real concern for me is Gawn. 138 votes out of a possible 520 for an average rating of 2.6. That puts him 14th if he plays every game. Hopefully he takes it personally and has a massive pre season. We desperately need him to be at his best.

Interesting question that you raise @poita.  How do you award points when voting?

I believe that players should be awarded points based on their value to a team, and that the most valuable players in a match are often more than twice as valuable, in terms of winning an evenly-contested the game, than a player who simply fulfilled their "role".  (That said, role players are vital in an 18-team, equalised AFL competition.)

For instance, what points would you give 2 midfielders, say A and B, if A had 30 disposals and B had 20 but both had 80% efficiency?  Let's assume that the split on tackles, 1%-ers, smothers and inside-50s were also on a 3:2 ratio.  The way I imagine this situation, player A is likely to have far more influence on Melbourne winning than player B, so votes of 8 versus 4 seem quite reasonable.  An extra 10 possessions for a midfielder will possibly lead to another 4 or 5 crucial plays that lead to winning a game.

Then again, how do you judge a KP defender or forward in this criteria?  I'd base it on something like the proportion of crucial moments won in the game.

Edited by Traja Dee
Fixed punctuation.

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1 hour ago, Jaded said:

For all the angst re: Dom Tyson, the coaches obviously rate him.

 

Does a lot of the non-negotiable's as outlined by the coaching staff and is a genuine competitor. If he can clean up his disposal a bit he'll go from one of Demonland's whipping boys to a fan favourite in no time.

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People talk about hibbo not being higher. What about tmac's younger brother.

 He. Waz. Robbed.

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