2017 Post Mortem

[Lucifers Hero 39,811]

What went wrong on Saturday?  Obviously a lot!  But I noticed a major flaw in how we played:  We forgot 'Team First'! 

From the get go we were 'selfish' like in years past when self-preservation, stats, being the hero etc was what mattered.  This resulted in tackling, positioning, disposal, structures, team rules etc going out the window.   So Collingwood scored 6.3 from our turnovers in the first quarter. 

Unfortunately our leaders (and not coincidentally the pre Roos players):  Jones, TMac, Gawn were the worst at selfish play, virtually for the whole day.  So we ended up with no or little leadership.  That selfish play lingered until a few kids like Petracca, Oliver etc took over. 

Why?  My theory is 'Comfort Zone Syndrome' (a made up phrase).  It has been mentioned in other threads that under pressure players revert to their 'comfort zones' eg Jones, TMac, Gawn become selfish, Watts withdraws, Viney takes everyone on, Tyson kicks the ball nowhere, Hunt forgets to slow just before kicking etc.  Sometimes the pressure is physical and real.  But often it is not and that is when they revert to their 'comfort zones'. 

Our problem is players do not snap out of their comfort zones until the end of a quarter and often it is too late.  Our leaders don't act because they can't see it as they themselves are engulfed by their own 'comfort zone'.   Not a problem when it is one or two players but a huge problem when it afflicts most of the team like it did on Saturday.  This 'comfort zone syndrome' is undoubtedly subconscious and highly individual therefore a major, major problem. 

Probably, it is the reverting to one's 'comfort zone' when under pressure that makes us look mentally weak.    But 'mental weakness does not exist in a vaccum.  When expectations are highest, the pressure goes up and the more likely comfort zones will kick in.  I can think of no other reason why we crack under expectations.

Somewhere, this week a poster suggested a sports psychologist.  If my theory is correct then we need a bunch of them.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[dimmy 1,307]

Actually I thought Watts was far from withdrawn in the 1st Q and contributed well all day. A vast improvement pre VFL games.

[Lucifers Hero 39,811]

1 minute ago, dimmy said:

Actually I thought Watts was far from withdrawn in the 1st Q and contributed well all day. A vast improvement pre VFL games.

I agree, I was referring to the his particular 'comfort zone' when he does go missing or is ineffective which wasn't Saturday.

[layzie 33,805]

8 hours ago, brendan said:

Not sure about the rest of you but I can't believe how much what happened over weekend has turned me off footy, I usually watch all the footy shows and love watching finals but right now I just don't want to watch anything and would be happy if the grand final was tommorow, I'm still too angry to think anything AFL I doubt I will get over what happened till season kicks off next year it's going to be a long summer 

Mate, I'm exactly the same. I was at the gym last night and even seeing Eddie on Millionaire got me down. My friend wants me to go with him to the Geelong V Richmond final but the MCG and Yarra Park surroundings feel like ground zero to me right now. I've watched no footy shows, my regular morning SEN listening has been changed to Triple J where I now have to hear those folk talk about what to bring to a zombie apocalypse. It has made me realise just how much of a void this sport fills and having to avoid it completely sucks.

A broken and lost person with no bearings at all.

[DeeWiz 296]

Best wins: Adelaide, Bulldogs, Meth Coke, Port
Worst losses: North (x2), Freo, Hawthorn, Pies
Best newcomers: Hibberd, Melksham, Hannan, TMac (as a forward)

2017 Haiku:

Paul Roos laid the stone
Goodwin sure to break the curse
The Dees failed again

 

[jane02 3,748]

22 hours ago, Hell Bent said:

Has anyone managed to find closure and moved on from the heartache?

I`m still filthy!

No - I am glad I am not the only one. I feel worse than yesterday.

[sisso 2,580]

34 minutes ago, jane02 said:

No - I am glad I am not the only one. I feel worse than yesterday.

Nope - I can talk about it now but I doubt I'll be over it any time soon

[Demonsone 2,037]

This is has prob already been posted...... If true sums up our result!

Leadership,leadership,leadership

[chook fowler 19,459]

Looks like the Australian test team is made of the same stuff as our club.

[jnrmac 20,065]

Just saw the presser with Goodwin. My God its pathetic. His joking his way through it. No friggin concept of the fate that awaited. No anger, no emotion whatsoever.

CLearly the players felt that there wasn't anything on the line, the way the started.

What a mammoth failure of the coaching staff to get this group prepared for a season defining game.

[Older demon 2,741]

Leadership is an issue and none of the leaders noticed the lack of effort in the first 20 minutes and stood up to make a statement. Apologies to Viney who was injured and Lewis who was at least making an effort. I thought Trac showed a bit in this area and vision on AFL 360 showed Trac going to each and every player slumped against the wall in the rooms post match, that is TEAM.

Compare this with Danger or Selwood who take it on their shoulders to personally lift or make a difference. Dusty at Richmond, the Crows struggle when Sloane is blanketed and Sydney has the toughest midfield going.

For anyone who listened to the Age podcast, specatators heard Lewis give TMac the mother of all sprays at one of the quarter time breaks. Did anyone hear this or hear of what was said.

[KysaiahMessiah 725]

6 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

What went wrong on Saturday?  Obviously a lot!  But I noticed a major flaw in how we played:  We forgot 'Team First'! 

From the get go we were 'selfish' like in years past when self-preservation, stats, being the hero etc was what mattered.  This resulted in tackling, positioning, disposal, structures, team rules etc going out the window.   So Collingwood scored 6.3 from our turnovers in the first quarter. 

Unfortunately our leaders (and not coincidentally the pre Roos players):  Jones, TMac, Gawn were the worst at selfish play, virtually for the whole day.  So we ended up with no or little leadership.  That selfish play lingered until a few kids like Petracca, Oliver etc took over. 

Why?  My theory is 'Comfort Zone Syndrome' (a made up phrase).  It has been mentioned in other threads that under pressure players revert to their 'comfort zones' eg Jones, TMac, Gawn become selfish, Watts withdraws, Viney takes everyone on, Tyson kicks the ball nowhere, Hunt forgets to slow just before kicking etc.  Sometimes the pressure is physical and real.  But often it is not and that is when they revert to their 'comfort zones'. 

Our problem is players do not snap out of their comfort zones until the end of a quarter and often it is too late.  Our leaders don't act because they can't see it as they themselves are engulfed by their own 'comfort zone'.   Not a problem when it is one or two players but a huge problem when it afflicts most of the team like it did on Saturday.  This 'comfort zone syndrome' is undoubtedly subconscious and highly individual therefore a major, major problem. 

Probably, it is the reverting to one's 'comfort zone' when under pressure that makes us look mentally weak.    But 'mental weakness does not exist in a vaccum.  When expectations are highest, the pressure goes up and the more likely comfort zones will kick in.  I can think of no other reason why we crack under expectations.

Somewhere, this week a poster suggested a sports psychologist.  If my theory is correct then we need a bunch of them.

Your comfort zone equates to what Jordan Lewis said on 360.  He said that the training sessions, even matches,  for great sides are "boring". That everyone knows what to do, its second nature.  We need our zone to become boring and predictable (to us, not others).  Predictable excellence and predictable execution under pressure. He was very interesting to listen to last night.

[KysaiahMessiah 725]

3 hours ago, jane02 said:

No - I am glad I am not the only one. I feel worse than yesterday.

Sort of glad others feel the same...frustration turned to anger and now, sadness.  Never thought that last weekend would make me feel this way for so long!

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,246]

I haven't listened to or watched any footy shows since the debacle. 

[beelzebub 23,376]

41 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Just saw the presser with Goodwin. My God its pathetic. His joking his way through it. No friggin concept of the fate that awaited. No anger, no emotion whatsoever.

CLearly the players felt that there wasn't anything on the line, the way the started.

What a mammoth failure of the coaching staff to get this group prepared for a season defining game.

have said all along...the team wasnt prepared properly for this game.  Everything anecdotal and reported suggests we just got this very wrong from long ways out.

So if this game...what others.

May are rapturous of Goodwin..Ive seen nothing particularly special yet.

[Deemented Are Go! 3,677]

8 minutes ago, bingers said:

I haven't listened to or watched any footy shows since the debacle. 

Same here Bingers- I watch 360 religiously every night, can't do it this week. Not sure I can even stomach watching finals ?

[Lucifers Hero 39,811]

46 minutes ago, Older demon said:

Leadership is an issue and none of the leaders noticed the lack of effort in the first 20 minutes and stood up to make a statement. Apologies to Viney who was injured and Lewis who was at least making an effort. I thought Trac showed a bit in this area and vision on AFL 360 showed Trac going to each and every player slumped against the wall in the rooms post match, that is TEAM.

Compare this with Danger or Selwood who take it on their shoulders to personally lift or make a difference. Dusty at Richmond, the Crows struggle when Sloane is blanketed and Sydney has the toughest midfield going.

For anyone who listened to the Age podcast, specatators heard Lewis give TMac the mother of all sprays at one of the quarter time breaks. Did anyone hear this or hear of what was said.

I heard the podcast and I think the spray was at 3/4 time probably for taking a kick in, which seems against team rules;  it isn't his job.  The Cox mark proved why it isn't!

The leaders were off doing their own thing all game.  Gawn and Jones were the main culprits with TMc.

If the torpedo cost Dunn his position in the team that kick in should cost TMc his spot in the leadership team. 

As  a group the leaders (except Lewis) cost us that game by playing selfish football.  They were so busy getting stats and playing their own game they forgot Team First and forgot to follow and enforce team rules!  Terrible example to set to the young guys.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

6 minutes ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

Same here Bingers- I watch 360 religiously every night, can't do it this week. Not sure I can even stomach watching finals ?

I'm still struggling with the emotions. 

My love for this club started in 1988, I was living abroad prior and I can't even imagine what 1987 felt like for those that went through it.

[frankie_d 1,471]

41 minutes ago, Older demon said:

Leadership is an issue and none of the leaders noticed the lack of effort in the first 20 minutes and stood up to make a statement. Apologies to Viney who was injured and Lewis who was at least making an effort. I thought Trac showed a bit in this area and vision on AFL 360 showed Trac going to each and every player slumped against the wall in the rooms post match, that is TEAM.

Compare this with Danger or Selwood who take it on their shoulders to personally lift or make a difference. Dusty at Richmond, the Crows struggle when Sloane is blanketed and Sydney has the toughest midfield going.

For anyone who listened to the Age podcast, specatators heard Lewis give TMac the mother of all sprays at one of the quarter time breaks. Did anyone hear this or hear of what was said.

This is the most important issues facing the club. It's all about leadership. 

Saw Trac going to everyone - him, Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw - a few others - they are the future

[Clintosaurus 7,848]

23 minutes ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

Same here Bingers- I watch 360 religiously every night, can't do it this week. Not sure I can even stomach watching finals ?

I won't be. [censored] this season. It is over. 

[binman 42,972]

15 hours ago, brendan said:

Not sure about the rest of you but I can't believe how much what happened over weekend has turned me off footy, I usually watch all the footy shows and love watching finals but right now I just don't want to watch anything and would be happy if the grand final was tommorow, I'm still too angry to think anything AFL I doubt I will get over what happened till season kicks off next year it's going to be a long summer 

I feel exactly the same. Still ridiculously flat.

I have avoided all footy media. Music and abc news 1026 for me.

Livw near burbank and wouls have loved nothing more than going on sat. If we were playing finals. Now dont rhink i can find the enthusiasm to go.

So [censored] off.

[bing181 9,238]

3 minutes ago, frankie_d said:

This is the most important issues facing the club. It's all about leadership. 

Yes and no, but we're certainly still paying dearly for the basket case we were 5+ years ago.

In terms of experience and thus maturity and leadership we have Jones, Vince, Lewis (especially), but then we drop down to Viney and the 2nd/3rd year players. We have very (very!) few players in the 100 - 200 game group, which is where the leadership and experience should start to come to the fore and flow on through the whole team. Of that group, the only players we have that have come up playing at Melbourne are:

Watts. Jetta. Colin Garland. Tom McDonald.

That's all.

The difference with a team like Sydney is quite staggering. They have 5 players with more than 200 games, and apart from Franklin, most of those have played their whole careers at Sydney (more or less). For us, we have 3 players with more than 200 games, but 2 of those are recent imports. So, only one player (Jones) who has been with us throughout. But just under that, Sydney also have another batch of 4 players in the 150 - 200 game mark, once again, all of whom have come through the club (excepting Tippet ... and I've included Parker on 149 games). We have one who's come through the club - Jack Watts.

In other words, Sydney have 9 players with 150+ games, most of whom have come through the club. We have 5 players with 150+ games, but only 2 of which have come through the club. That's a huge difference, especially when you consider the kind of club that Sydney have been over the last 10 years, from the coaches down through the players. Given what he's come up through, that Nathan Jones is any kind of captain at all is a miracle.

The onfield leadership we're all clamouring for will come, we have the young(er) players. But it will take time.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

20 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Yes and no, but we're certainly still paying dearly for the basket case we were 5+ years ago.

In terms of experience and thus maturity and leadership we have Jones, Vince, Lewis (especially), but then we drop down to Viney and the 2nd/3rd year players. We have very (very!) few players in the 100 - 200 game group, which is where the leadership and experience should start to come to the fore and flow on through the whole team. Of that group, the only players we have that have come up playing at Melbourne are:

Watts. Jetta. Colin Garland. Tom McDonald.

That's all.

The difference with a team like Sydney is quite staggering. They have 5 players with more than 200 games, and apart from Franklin, most of those have played their whole careers at Sydney (more or less). For us, we have 3 players with more than 200 games, but 2 of those are recent imports. So, only one player (Jones) who has been with us throughout. But just under that, Sydney also have another batch of 4 players in the 150 - 200 game mark, once again, all of whom have come through the club (excepting Tippet ... and I've included Parker on 149 games). We have one who's come through the club - Jack Watts.

In other words, Sydney have 9 players with 150+ games, most of whom have come through the club. We have 5 players with 150+ games, but only 2 of which have come through the club. That's a huge difference, especially when you consider the kind of club that Sydney have been over the last 10 years, from the coaches down through the players. Given what he's come up through, that Nathan Jones is any kind of captain at all is a miracle.

The onfield leadership we're all clamouring for will come, we have the young(er) players. But it will take time.

Your post is sooooo 2014 or 2009. Does not excuse losing to a team with nothing to play for, 9 regular players out and other issues. We were in the 8 on Saturday morning. We had an opportunity.

Edited August 30, 2017 by america de cali

[Deemented Are Go! 3,677]

11 minutes ago, binman said:

I feel exactly the same. Still ridiculously flat.

I have avoided all footy media. Music and abc news 1026 for me.

Livw near burbank and wouls have loved nothing more than going on sat. If we were playing finals. Now dont rhink i can find the enthusiasm to go.

So [censored] off.

Absolutely with you there...nothing like a news broadcast on reckless North Korean missile tests than hearing us getting a pasting from Gaz, Hamish and Tim bloody Watson in the morning. 

Bring on the VFL finals and AFLW. Here's hoping those teams show a bit more ticker than the horrific friggin debacle we witnessed at the weekend. 

Ugh...double ugh

[brendan 3,437]

21 minutes ago, binman said:

I feel exactly the same. Still ridiculously flat.

I have avoided all footy media. Music and abc news 1026 for me.

Livw near burbank and wouls have loved nothing more than going on sat. If we were playing finals. Now dont rhink i can find the enthusiasm to go.

So [censored] off.

I think the club has finally broken me, I'm that flat I don't want nothing to do with them at the moment don't care who we recruit, don't care who wins the b&f, don't care who finishes highest in the Brownlow just don't care about the MFC Anymore, 13 years of buying a membership for zero return, in sure I will come around at some point but it's going to be a tough 1 this time