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4 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

Cornes yesterday - ‘Melbourne need to sell Petty while he’s so valuable.’

Cornes Today - ‘Melbourne are keeping Petty. Is he that valuable?’

I don’t take anything he says seriously, because he admits he doesn’t either. It’s just a bit of fun.

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6 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

Well, it should. JVR was tremendous for a player in his first AFL season. He wasn't even intimidated by being asked to do some ruck work. He reminded me of a young Dermie, with a bit of swagger and a lot of ability. And Petty is tall, can take a one-grabber, is an accurate kick and understands forwards play from the other side of The fence. Add in Fritta and Kossie, and our defensive forwards - it should frighten the opposition.

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33 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

The last two games these two played as forwards, they both combined for a total of 14 goals.

I think we'll be fine in this department thanks Kane.

Edited by dazzledavey36
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49 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Cornes yesterday - ‘Melbourne need to sell Petty while he’s so valuable.’

Cornes Today - ‘Melbourne are keeping Petty. Is he that valuable?’

I don’t take anything he says seriously, because he admits he doesn’t either. It’s just a bit of fun.

Can Demonland boss develop and implement a strictly voluntary 'Kane Cornes Filter'.

He's demonstrated clear unobjectivity this year and is click driven. I don't mind opinions I disagree with.

Thanks in anticipation.

This blokes incorrigible and I for one would tick the box to activate.

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1 hour ago, The heart beats true said:

Cornes yesterday - ‘Melbourne need to sell Petty while he’s so valuable.’

Cornes Today - ‘Melbourne are keeping Petty. Is he that valuable?’

I don’t take anything he says seriously, because he admits he doesn’t either. It’s just a bit of fun.

image.png.e19cd01dc0e8d2798bb537bdebdafb94.png

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53 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

The last two games these two played as forwards, they both combined for a total of 14 goals.

I think we'll be fine in this department thanks Kane.

Both are decent kicks at goal too, uncomplicated and reliable.

Not many other clubs have 2 key forwards 23 or under who’d be first choice. If Petty holds up, we are sorted for a few years with Jeffo developing.

As for mids though 👎🏼

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2 hours ago, Demonland said:

 

I find this tweet interesting in terms of it being fairly representative of what I see as JVR being underrated by many in the media, and even some DL posters. It's almost as if some have forgotten next season will be just his third at an AFL club and that he has only played one season at AFL level.

One of the maxims of footy is key position players take time to develop. Perhaps JVR gets marked down becuase he is not that tall but his first season at AFL level was, by any historical measure, incredible for a key forward. 

The last two key forwards i can think of that had a similar impact so early were probably Charlie Curnow and Jesse Hogan. I'm no doubt forgetting some players but in my mind i have to go back to Johnathan Brown for a key forward that had the impact of JVR at the same age. 

Brown is actually a pretty good comparison. He was heavier but about the same height and like JVR wasn't a high draft pick. And JVR plays in a similar way - super competitive, wills himself to the contest, and uses his strength in marking contests.

And their numbers when both 20 are pretty similar (by the by in this comparison it's worth noting the key difference is Brown averaged more mark per game. But all key forward would have taken more marks because there were no defensive zones being used and much more pure one on ones. More possessions too, which i think is reasonable knock on JVR's game. That said JVR clearly did more ruck work, which is impressive given he is 10kg lighter than Brown at the same age)

Player Statistics Comparison
 
Jacob Van Rooyen Name Jonathan Brown
Melbourne Demons Team Brisbane Lions
Forward Position Forward
20 Career Games 256
Claremont Origin Geelong Falcons
April 16, 2003 Date of Birth October 29, 1981
20yr 6mth Age Turned 20 in 2001
193cm Height 194cm
91kg Weight 102kg
2021 National Draft Last Drafted In 1999 National Draft
Round 1, Pick #19 Last Draft Position Round 2, Pick #30
Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Brisbane Lions
2023 Stats for Season 2001
20 Games 25
4.5 Kicks 8.7
4.2 Handballs 5.2
8.7 Disposals 13.9
3.1 Marks 6.3
1.4 Goals 1.5
0.5 Behinds 0.9
2.1 Tackles 1.2
3.7 Hitouts 0.7

Brown went on to become a generational player. I'm not saying JVR will too but i am saying that in all likelihood, with another preseason - only his second full one - he will significantly improve next season.

He will be stronger - and perhaps even more importantly fitter meaning he will be less prone to fading towards the end of the season as happened this year and will get to more contests which will mean more possessions. 

And he will get bigger too - broader across the shoulders and perhaps heavier. And that growth will continue until he he is 24-25 like it does for all bigs.

He'll have way more impact next season and will continue to do so year on year until his mid twenties. 

Some might say beware the second year blues, but it's not his second year next season, its his third. A big tick for the way the club has handled his development.

My point is that in terms of assessing our forward line the narrative and/or implication seems be that JVR will not offer anymore than he did this season and is not a player to build a forward line around.

That may be prove to be true i guess but significant improvement is much more likely when you consider the trajectory of other gun key forwards. 

And if he does go up a level, a forward line with JVR and Petty as the two key forward matches up pretty well against any other team in the AFL, particularly given the role of the key forward now is almost more about ensuring the opposition don't intercept mark than kick goals. You only need to look at who scored goals during the finals for evidence of that. 

Looking at the 8 finalists, and the crows because they are on the up and the cats just because, the two key forwards for each team are:

Pies: Miochek and Mcstay

Lions:  Daniher and Hipwood

Blues: Curnow and Mckay 

Port: Marshall and Dixon

Giants:  Hogan and Riccardi (?)

Swans: Amartey and Mcdonald 

Saints: King and Owens

Crows: Walker and Fogerty

Cats: Hawkins and Cameron

Of that list i would argue only the Blues, Lions and Saints two keys will likely be better next season than JVR and Petty.

But not miles better, particularly given come the high pressure, forward half, defensive footy being played in finals bigs struggle to get one on one marking opportunities or kick goals.

By way of example of that latter point few would argue that Carlton don't have the two best tall forwards in McKay and Curnow.

Noting that Mckay only played 2 finals, across the Blues' three finals they could only manage a combined 5 goals between them (Curnow 3, Mackay 2).

To be fair De Koning kicked two in the dees game when he was basically replacing Mckay's role. So lets say 7 across three finals for their two key talls. Hardly earth shattering. 

By the by its worth remembering we didn't have JVR or Petty in the semi. Instead we had Tmac (at least i'm pretty sure i saw him) and Smith (!) as our two key talls. And we still should have won! 

Edited by binman
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5 minutes ago, binman said:

I find this tweet interesting in terms of it being fairly representative of what I see as JVR being underrated by many in the media, and even some DL posters. It's almost as if some have forgotten next season will be just his third at an AFL club and that he has only played one season at AFL level.

One of the maxims of footy is key position players take time to develop. Perhaps JVR gets marked down becuase he is not that tall but his first season at AFL level was, by any historical measure, incredible for a key forward. 

The last two key forwards i can think of that had a similar impact so early were probably Charlie Curnow and Jesse Hogan. I'm no doubt forgetting some players but in my mind i have to go back to Johnathan Brown for a key forward that had the impact of JVR at the same age. 

Brown is actually a pretty good comparison. He was heavier but about the same height and like JVR wasn't a high draft pick. And JVR plays in a similar way - super competitive, wills himself to the contest, and uses his strength in marking contests.

And their numbers when both 20 are pretty similar (by the by in this comparison it's worth noting the key difference is Brown averaged more mark per game. But all key forward would have taken more marks because there were no defensive zones being used and much more pure one on ones. More possessions too, which i think is reasonable knock on JVR's game. That said JVR clearly did more ruck work, which is impressive given he is 10kg lighter than Brown at the same age)

Player Statistics Comparison
 
Jacob Van Rooyen Name Jonathan Brown
Melbourne Demons Team Brisbane Lions
Forward Position Forward
20 Career Games 256
Claremont Origin Geelong Falcons
April 16, 2003 Date of Birth October 29, 1981
20yr 6mth Age Turned 20 in 2001
193cm Height 194cm
91kg Weight 102kg
2021 National Draft Last Drafted In 1999 National Draft
Round 1, Pick #19 Last Draft Position Round 2, Pick #30
Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Brisbane Lions
2023 Stats for Season 2001
20 Games 25
4.5 Kicks 8.7
4.2 Handballs 5.2
8.7 Disposals 13.9
3.1 Marks 6.3
1.4 Goals 1.5
0.5 Behinds 0.9
2.1 Tackles 1.2
3.7 Hitouts 0.7

Brown went on to become a generational player. I'm not saying JVR will too but i am saying that in all likelihood, with another preseason - only his second full one - he will significantly improve next season.

He will be stronger - and perhaps even more importantly fitter meaning he will be less prone to fading towards the end of the season as happened this year and will get to more contests which will mean more possessions. 

And he will get bigger too - broader across the shoulders and perhaps heavier. And that growth will continue until he he is 24-25 like it does for all bigs.

He'll have way more impact next season and will continue to do so year on year until his mid twenties. 

Some might say beware the second year blues, but it's not his second year next season, its his third. A big tick for the way the club has handled his development.

My point is that in terms of assessing our forward line the narrative and/or implication seems be that JVR will not offer anymore than he did this season and is not a player to build a forward line around.

That may be prove to be true i guess but significant improvement is much more likely when you consider the trajectory of other gun key forwards. 

And if he does go up a level, a forward line with JVR and Petty as the two key forward matches up pretty well against any other team in the AFL, particularly given the role of the key forward now is almost more about ensuring the opposition don't intercept mark than kick goals. You only need to look at who scored goals during the finals for evidence of that. 

Looking at the 8 finalists, and the crows because they are on the up and the cats just because, the two key forwards for each team are:

Pies: Miochek and Mcstay

Lions:  Daniher and Hipwood

Blues: Curnow and Mckay 

Port: Marshall and Dixon

Giants:  Hogan and Riccardi (?)

Swans: Amartey and Mcdonald 

Saints: King and Owens

Crows: Walker and Fogerty

Cats: Hawkins and Cameron

Of that list i would argue only the Blues, Lions and Saints two keys will likely be better next season than JVR and Petty.

But not miles better, particularly given come the high pressure, forward half, defensive footy being played in finals bigs struggle to get one on one marking opportunities or kick goals.

By way of example of that latter point few would argue that Carlton don't have the two best tall forwards in McKay and Curnow.

Noting that Mckay only played 2 finals, across their three finals they could only manage a combined 5 goals between them (Curnow 3, Mackay 2).

To be fair De Koning kicked two in the dees game when he was basically replacing Mckay's role. So lets say 7 across three finals for their two key talls. Hardly earth shattering. 

By the by its worth remembering we didn't have JVR or Petty in the semi. Instead we had Tmac (at least i'm pretty sure i saw him) and Smith (!) as our two key talls. And we still should have won! 

The JVR Curnow comparison at the same age:

Player Statistics Comparison
 
Jacob Van Rooyen Name Charlie Curnow
Melbourne Demons Team Carlton Blues
Forward Position Forward
20 Career Games 110
Claremont Origin Geelong Falcons
April 16, 2003 Date of Birth February 3, 1997
20yr 6mth Age Turned 20 in 2017
193cm Height 192cm
91kg Weight 92kg
2021 National Draft Last Drafted In 2015 National Draft
Round 1, Pick #19 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #12
Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Carlton Blues
2023 Stats for Season 2017
20 Games 21
4.5 Kicks 9.9
4.2 Handballs 4.3
8.7 Disposals 14.1
3.1 Marks 5.7
1.4 Goals 0.9
0.5 Behinds 0.6
2.1 Tackles 2.9
3.7 Hitouts 0.3
1.2 Inside 50s 2.8
0.3 Goal Assists 0.6
0.9 Frees For 1.2
0.8 Frees Against 1.1
4.3 Contested Possessions 6.5
4.8 Uncontested Possessions 7.8
6.8 Effective Disposals 10.9
78.2% Disposal Efficiency % 77.3%
1.6 Clangers 2.2
0.9 Contested Marks 1.7
1.5 Marks Inside 50 1.2
0.3 Clearances 0.5
0 Rebound 50s 0.6
2.1 One Percenters 1.1
0 Bounces 0.1
74.0 Time On Ground % 82.7
0.1 Centre Clearances 0.1
0.2 Stoppage Clearances 0.4
4.0 Score Involvements 4.7
113.0 Metres Gained 249.1
1.5 Turnovers 3.1
0.5 Intercepts 2.2
1.1 Tackles Inside 50 0.7
50.9 AFL Fantasy Score 71.2
63.1 Supercoach Score 74.2
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To all those who think Petty and JVR aren't good enough to be our targets, who would you get rid of to get someone better? We have one of the best midfields and back-lines in the clubs history, and there is nothing that is below average about our forward line either; the crows wouldn't be throwing the South Australian GDP at Petty if he was no good.

The main issue that we (still) have is kicking efficiency, but (again), this doesn't apply to Petty or JVR who are both good kicks. 

Petracca kicked 28.34 this season and Gawn kicked 10.14 - including some crucial misses (with a broken foot).  You switch those numbers around and we win the GF.

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4 minutes ago, D Rev said:

To all those who think Petty and JVR aren't good enough to be our targets, who would you get rid of to get someone better? We have one of the best midfields and back-lines in the clubs history, and there is nothing that is below average about our forward line either; the crows wouldn't be throwing the South Australian GDP at Petty if he was no good.

The main issue that we (still) have is kicking efficiency, but (again), this doesn't apply to Petty or JVR who are both good kicks. 

Petracca kicked 28.34 this season and Gawn kicked 10.14 - including some crucial misses (with a broken foot).  You switch those numbers around and we win the GF.

The only one who thinks so is Kane Cornes.

We all know it can work.

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What team wouldn't want to have two talents such as Petty and JVR as key position players in their forward line?

Both are young, talented, versatile and, surprise, surprise, can kick straight.

If these two were not worth at least 2 goals a game, then we would have won another flag.

 

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I know nothing about the medical side of things, but it doesn't seem likely Adelaide were willing to pay a guy that much money next year if he was going to be on the injured list for half of it. Even if it was a long term investment I assume he would be cheaper next year if he had an injury interrupted 2024.

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1 hour ago, Demonland said:

 

Sounds to me like they're still in his ear trying desperately to convince him. For all our sakes let's hope they're unsuccessful as we've never been a team to hold a player back from a trade once they've actually lodged a request...

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    MAULED by Whispering Jack

    The writing was on the wall from the very first bounce of the football. The big men went up, Max Gawn more often than not, decisively won the ruck hit out and invariably a Brisbane Lions onballer either won the battle on the ground or halved the contest and they went at it repeatedly until they finally won out. Melbourne managed the first goal from Alex Neal-Bullen but after that the visitors shut out every area of Demon presence around the ground except in the ruck duels. It was a mauling.

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