TMac & Brown

[BaliDemon 401]

51 minutes ago, layzie said:

Ok.

Your opinion is wrong, you're wrong and you stink.

Better?

Not quite.

“You’re opinion is wrong” - okay

“You’re wrong” - okay

“You stink” - not okay (personal attack) 

If you’ve been here longer than I have you should probably know the rules by now. 

[layzie 29,289]

1 minute ago, BaliDemon said:

Not quite.

“You’re opinion is wrong” - okay

“You’re wrong” - okay

“You stink” - not okay (personal attack) 

If you’ve been here longer than I have you should probably know the rules by now. 

Alright.

We'll work on it and get back to you. 

[Supreme_Demon 3,011]

These are all definitely worthwhile questions.

We all get quite fired up regarding our beloved Demons. That's why we have this wonderful discussion forum here at Demonland.

Tom McDonald and Ben Brown appear to be "cooked". But they might have excellent Pre-Seasons? Who knows?

I sadly don't have much faith in Josh Schache due to how timid he is. But perhaps he'll take some "angry pills" during his holidays and come back playing more aggressively? Sadly, I don't think it's part of his personality. But I am happy to be proven wrong!

As for Jacob van Rooyen. He is only beginning his career and is a huge talent! I love the way he plays and he reminds me a lot of a young David Schwarz or maybe a young David Neitz? 🤔

Harry Petty has had some rotten luck with injuries. But I think he is the answer to our forwardline woes. He may even be a better forward than a defender?! Time will tell. I think that Adam Tomlinson and eventually Daniel "Disco" Turner replace him in the back line.

Lastly, we need to be patient with Matthew Jefferson. He needs to "bulk up" in the gym and get a lot fitter. However, he has shown he has potential. Another season or two is definitely required at VFL level for him to develop.

While it would be nice to have another mature key forward in our side. I highly doubt we will be able to snaffle a Tom Lynch unless new Richmond coach Adem Yze thinks the Tigers need a total re-build.

The best we can do (for the time being) is look to the draft or to the state leagues for key forwards. Otherwise, be patient and try to land a "big fish" like Ben King from the Suns when his contract comes to an end. However, I think that it would be very unlikely that we would have a chance of getting him due to 17 other AFL Clubs being keen too!

Edited September 22, 2023 by Supreme_Demon

[Cranky Franky 1,520]

1 hour ago, BaliDemon said:

What absolute nonsense. Psychobabble.

All I did was question some list management decisions. Like anyone else, you then have the opportunity to agree, refute or disregard them. There are enough supportive people and ‘likes’ on the original post to suggest - shock! horror! - not everyone thinks like you. Hard to fathom I know but there it is. 

Quit trying to shut down others by yelling ‘troll!” into the ether in the hope the moderators will censor discussion and ban posters you disapprove of. It’s a weak-minded, bullying tactic. Be better than that. 

Hate to agree with someone referencing Tucker Carlson but spot on.

Binmans post was total psychobabble, an impenetrable word salad worthy of the worst management speak.

In any case a contract is a contract - both parties pay their money & take their chances.

However I would be surprised if BBB plays next year.

 

[tiers 2,783]

What would any other team give to have both Petty and JVR as their main forward kp prospects? Both are tough, strong, good marks, good kicks and can ruck in the forward line and at a pinch around the ground to give Maxie a rest. The key to their success will be to keep Maxie out of their way as he attracts too many oppos.

BBB and TMac are mostly spent but keeping one as back up (and perhaps surprise comeback form) might be prudent. I believe that if BBB can overcome his knee problems, then he represents the better option because of his ability (if properly coached) to straighten up the forward line.

Plus add Fritsch, Kozzie, Chandler, ANB, Spargo and occasionally Tracca and we have a potent, match winning forward line if only they can kick straight.

And we have some high draft picks. Not yet the end of the world.

[DeeSpencer 23,296]

5 hours ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Getting Brown from the Roos is a 4 year deal.  No brainier.  Premiership.  Good list management.

Tom McDonald in September 2021 was a 28 year old key position forward, two weeks away from winning a premiership.  He was available as a free agent.  He gets a three year deal.  No brainier. Good list management.

Injuries, bad luck and some hindsight make the back end of these deals look bad, but these contracts are on the books at every club, especially ones in the premiership window trying to attract and retain senior players.

Wouldn’t be surprised if Brown called time on his career, but expect McDonald to see out his contract.

 

North only offered Brown 3 I think. No one else went 4. But I’m fine with it because he was a crucial cog.

It’s more than time for BBB to give it away tho, at this stage playing him is just painful. Would be nice if he’s agreeable and whilst he deserves his money owed could be nice if he’s able to assist the club in other ways to earn it. 

Without knowing full details Tommy Mc getting his 2022 contracted smoothed and extended to 2024 was a mistake.

He played half a dozen good games to start 2021 after doing nothing in 19 and 20. Nothing to end 2021 either.

Unless it was vital to sign a big name in 2022 the smoothing of his deal has proven to be a costly error. 

[DeeSpencer 23,296]

The question is can we pay either out in the 2023 cap?

If not, then the payouts mean we keep both on the list for next year and there’s no huge difference between winding them up in October and winding them up in March assuming we have the main list spots.

I’ve seen enough with both. But I guess if T Mc wants to do a preseason and can actually impress then we’re paying for it no matter what so might as well have him.

[drysdale demon 4,193]

7 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

 

Would be around the $650K mark at a guess.

I would assume the club and player will come to a financial settlement and he retires in the coming weeks.

Not sure the club will be keen on nursing him for the third time in four years, albeit did get a significant pay off in 2021.

Pretty sure I read recently that his contract payment for next year is lot lower than $650,000.

[WERRIDEE 5,235]

Would be amazed if Brown didn't retire his knee is shot. If McDonald knows what's good for him he'll retire as well the game has passed him.

[Adzman 2,085]

I'll always love these two players for winning us a flag.

RE: list management, both contracts were educated decisions. If tmac and brown don't get hurt in 2022, we could have won that flag.

If they were fit and firing for this year, we could have won it .

Injuries are a part of the game, and we have been extremely unlucky inside forward 50.

Sadly I agree with most posters that these two guys probably aren't going to contribute in 2024, the injuries have taken a toll.

They won't retire, and will be a part of the 2024 season. I can't see either player making a comeback and dominating, but they may feature again in the 1s as depth selections.

[pitmaster 3,064]

6 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

Would be amazed if Brown didn't retire his knee is shot. If McDonald knows what's good for him he'll retire as well the game has passed him.

Even in our premiership year (his first with us) BBB only played 13 games. That he managed 19 games in 2022 looks like a miracle in hindsight. He came to us with the words of North supporters ringing in my ears "his knees are gone", so I really don't think we can expect much more from him. Just 7 games this year. 

He has been coaching the girls. His leading was sensational in his younger days. We can use a forward coach - maybe spread his pay through the men's and women's squads soft caps.

As others have said, considering the pay-off from his recruitment it's been an outstanding success.

Edited September 22, 2023 by pitmaster

[samcantstandya 949]

16 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

It sounds logical and BBB does have some coaching ambitions by what we see in the involvement with the AFLW team. Does he have the creds and know-how though? I know he has played in successful sides and has Coleman and premiership medal. Doesn't automatically qualify him as forward coach potential though. 

 

I think he's better qualified than Stafford was or is. I'd like to see Brown on the AFLW coaching panel along with the forward coaching gig with the men.

[biggestred 4,357]

Tmac spent a lot of the year injured dont forget. I think with a massive preseason and staying injury free he can definitely challenge for a spot in the team. 

[SPC 2,877]

1 minute ago, biggestred said:

Tmac spent a lot of the year injured dont forget. I think with a massive preseason and staying injury free he can definitely challenge for a spot in the team. 

I think he may challenge, but that is the problem.. he is no good

[layzie 29,289]

Think there's one complication too many when it comes to T-mac's foot

[Demon Dynasty 15,754]

On 9/22/2023 at 12:36 PM, BaliDemon said:

Guys & Dolls, they’re just list management questions. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[BDA 20,413]

2 hours ago, biggestred said:

Tmac spent a lot of the year injured dont forget. I think with a massive preseason and staying injury free he can definitely challenge for a spot in the team. 

He can't jump anymore. he's depth only

[Tracca 615]

22 hours ago, poita said:

Is everyone complaining about Brown & McDonald having contracts for next year, also happy that Gawn & May have contracts for 2025 when they will be 34 and 33 respectively?

This club has a history of pushing out contracts to free up salary space, and it is going to bite them in the [censored] at some point. I don't care how good a player they have been, no ruckman should be about to turn 32 and have a 2 year contract in his back pocket.

And nobody is going to walk away from a contract worth $400K - $500K just because it doesn't suit their employer any more. Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

but may and gawn are still in aa squad form, and still will be next year, yet tmac and bbb cant even get on the park and hwen they do they have 0 influence, there is a large difference.

[Ted Lasso 16,947]

I think Tmacs best chance to get back into the team and extend his career is to train as a key defender and compete directly with Tommlinson for the CHB position. 

a fully fit Petty and Van Rooyen plus whoever else we bring in are going to keep him out as a forward

[loges 6,144]

Been a fan of both but personally I think that both should be persuaded to retire 

[BigMacjnr 278]

36 minutes ago, Dwight Schrute said:

I think Tmacs best chance to get back into the team and extend his career is to train as a key defender and compete directly with Tommlinson for the CHB position. 

a fully fit Petty and Van Rooyen plus whoever else we bring in are going to keep him out as a forward

Which considering what B - grade kpp are being paid in the AFL is a value contract for depth. Dees could just as easily pay out either or both of BBB and/or TMac, so I am sure this is a fluid situation depending on draft-trade period

[spirit of norm smith 13,187]

Both are cooked.
Only the remaining 1-year of their contracts keeping them for announcing retirements in my view.  
Unfortunately Brown could not move during and after games he played. He’s a great bloke, a premiership player , but his body (knee)  has now let him down. 
 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,923]

Im hoping a payout settlement can be reached with BBB and the AFL, if he can't get back onto the park and play which it seems he's having trouble doing.

If he can't can a settlement fall under the league's medical payout allowance rather than our salary cap?

This would be the discussions the hierarchy would be having with him you would think.

BBB is a Premiership player he came, he saw, he conquered time to do the right thing now BBB.

[Demon Dynasty 15,754]

Love what they've brought to the club.

Great service from both and fab clubmen.

However i also feel they're both cooked.

Hopefully some sort of arrangement can be made to accommodate them in retirement.

[monoccular 16,282]

On 9/22/2023 at 2:55 PM, layzie said:

Ok.

Your opinion is wrong, you're wrong and you stink.

Better?

Just a question about linguistics - or perhaps semantics 

Can an opinion actually be wrong, or can it only be unfounded or unsupported or unpopular?  
It is after all personal and founded on one’s own perceptions on an issue?

Edited September 23, 2023 by monoccular