TMac & Brown

[BaliDemon 401]

5 minutes ago, layzie said:

The worst is when someone literally says "I believe my opinion to be the correct one". 

Why would anyone offer an opinion disbelieving it to be the correct one? 

[Lord Travis 9,867]

Both are contracted for next year.

Brown will likely retire early as his knee is stuffed. He’s already involved with coaching our women’s team and other off field initiatives, so he’s prepared for his next stage of life and would move on happily. 

TMac will stick around next year. Doubt he’ll have any meaningful impact, but we lack tall forward depth and don’t want to blow cash paying out multiple contracted players when our depth is already taking a hit this off season.

We need to chase another key forward for sure. Petty looked decent later in the year before injury, but isn’t exactly durable either. We need more options.

[BaliDemon 401]

14 minutes ago, old55 said:

You arrived here 5 minutes ago and I haven't seen too much "lauding".  Tim Lamb and the MFC list management team have done a superb job over many years and there are always going to be some outliers. 

They have done a very good job, no doubt. Not with these two, though. They did not plan well when it came to the key forward zone of the ground and it’s hurting us post-premiership. It may well be an ‘outlier’ but it’s proving to be a damn costly one. 

[demon3165 1,642]

1 hour ago, D Rev said:

I think a bit of calm may be needed here, it's not quite time to throw the baby out with the bathwater and volunteer the whole bathroom to Scotty Cam for a nice Tuscan-style reno.

We went into the season with BBB, McDonald, JVR and Petty all as key forward options.  Then we had support in Fritta, Melksham and Smith as mid-size. No-one thought that:

• JVR would play as much as he did, or as well as he did
• Petty and Melksham would both peak as forwards, then have season-ending injuries
• BBB and McDonald would make it through the season
• Smith would have the game of his life, kicking 3 in our final game of the season

What you need is depth and cover for an AFL season, as well as the opportunity for new players to get experience and learn.

BBB does seem to be well and truly shot, Im not sure if the club can risk him being available for 4-8 games a season. If he can't do more than that, you'd think retirement is on the cards. 

McDonald does seem past his best, but he does have a full pre season to get match fit and his body right.  I do think there is a place for him to provide the depth needed, Im not saying he's in the starting 22, but you need back-ups. He has also done the team thing (salary wise) to help us hold onto our mids etc.  Sacrifice goes both ways.

We have finished top 4 in the last four seasons, and while bad kicking is bad football, there is still plenty of upside with the majority of the list we have.

Goodwin said when Tmac was selected to play finals the it's the best he has been free of injury running better etc and what was his output in those two games?.

Tmac has been a great servant of the club but injuries have taken it's toll on him the man cannot turn quickly basically can only run in a straight line that hinders game plans and gives the opposition an ability to have a free man running around.

Yes he would be good for Casey but that's it.

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 3,924]

One of the most memorable parts of our 2021 finals was seeing Ben Brown fire, did exactly what we got him here to do.

[ElDiablo14 2,648]

52 minutes ago, binman said:

Sorry, how do you get to Tmac and BB not contributing anything meaningful next year? 

I mean that presupposes neither will be fit and injury free next season. Or even if they are they will still offer nothing. 

Sure, both scenario's are possible, particularly the former

But so is a scenario where one or both have brilliant off seasons (remembering Tmac basically didn't have one after 2022 as he was recovering from complications from his foot surgery) and play key roles in our 2024 season.

Lets be honest, unless you haver the power of seeing the future, or perhaps have access to a top shelf Balinese Shaman, the following statement is not really acceptable: 

• 'By the end of 2024, a full three years later, both will have contributed next to nothing to our push for a second flag. THREE full seasons'

I almost choked on the "Balinese Shaman" line 🤣

[Redleg 36,099]

29 minutes ago, old55 said:

You arrived here 5 minutes ago and I haven't seen too much "lauding".  Tim Lamb and the MFC list management team have done a superb job over many years and there are always going to be some outliers. 

Just take a look at our list of out of contract players over the next two years - only Sparrow and Bowey really warrant a major pay increase next year and Petty and Van Rooyen's new contract will be offset by May and Gawn moving to short term contracts or retiring.   We'll be freeing at least $2M of salary cap to target a gun FA or trade.  And our list management teams' record suggest they'll successfully pull it off.

 

Ralphy refers to Tim Lamb as the best List Manager in the business. That's a pretty good compliment.

I think we can accept that Tim and JT know what state the list is at, who needs to be coaxed into moving on and what we need going forward.

Like others, I have complete faith in them.

[djr 1,016]

1 hour ago, BaliDemon said:

Brown came for 4 years, not 3 as you’ve stated. 

You are correct about the two of them being crucial to premiership success in 2021 but by the end of 2024, a full three years later, both will have contributed next to nothing to our push for a second flag. THREE full seasons. 

’Let’s be honest’ - that’s not really acceptable. 

You have no idea of how the contract is structured. It might have been front ended and they both might be on minimal payments next year. That would be good list management. 

[old55 20,660]

15 minutes ago, BaliDemon said:

They have done a very good job, no doubt. Not with these two, though. They did not plan well when it came to the key forward zone of the ground and it’s hurting us post-premiership. It may well be an ‘outlier’ but it’s proving to be a damn costly one. 

How about you wait until the dealings done this year before shooting your load.

[Demons11 6,391]

People saying that getting rid of them will free up money are wrong.  The Players don’t just walk away from contracts and not get paid.  They have a year left and I dare say both will see out their contracts, unless an agreement is reached and the funds will still be included in the TPP.

[Jontee 3,313]

2 hours ago, MadAsHell said:

I still wouldn't be shocked if we do trade Tomlinson and McDonald is moved back to defence at Casey as our key defensive back up so we're at least spreading out the two key post spots taken between forward and back and not just forward.

I would be gobsmacked

[DubDee 19,256]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Lol they are injury prone but..

Clearly evident.

sarcasm

try again

[layzie 27,039]

24 minutes ago, BaliDemon said:

Why would anyone offer an opinion disbelieving it to be the correct one? 

It limits all opinion to being either correct or incorrect. 

I don't think it is wrong to question whether players are in our future, succession planning is important and tough calls need to be made for success but not everything is black and white and doesn't mean the alternative is 100% wrong as well. 

[daisycutter 27,755]

2 hours ago, BaliDemon said:

To me that seems poor negotiating. Shouldn’t it be the player who makes a bit of a sacrifice in terms of dollars or length of contract in order to have a chance of playing in a premiership winning side? It was Brown who wanted to move from a bottom to a top club. Seems our list manager got that principle [censored] about. 

And you didn’t mention TMac. Poor decision to extend his deal for TWO full years beyond 2022 given his age and obvious slowing down. 

These were football department decisions (Tim Lamb?) that basically left us with a gaping hole and precious little back up in attack for 2023 and possibly will for 2024 as well. Some poor decision making on the part of the football department. 

you are making an assumption both players are on good brass

they may not be (due to risk and long (ish) contracts

they may have been on frontloaded contracts

so, maybe you could tell us their contract positions other than the obvious contract end date?

[Jontee 3,313]

1 hour ago, D Rev said:

I think a bit of calm may be needed here,

R U Serious?

[spirit of norm smith 12,234]

34 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Both are contracted for next year.

Brown will likely retire early as his knee is stuffed. He’s already involved with coaching our women’s team and other off field initiatives, so he’s prepared for his next stage of life and would move on happily. 

TMac will stick around next year. Doubt he’ll have any meaningful impact, but we lack tall forward depth and don’t want to blow cash paying out multiple contracted players when our depth is already taking a hit this off season.

We need to chase another key forward for sure. Petty looked decent later in the year before injury, but isn’t exactly durable either. We need more options.

Simply ditto 

[Pennant St Dee 10,773]

I think we have another troll , who appears every school holidays 

[BaliDemon 401]

39 minutes ago, layzie said:

It limits all opinion to being either correct or incorrect. 

Only in another person’s mind who feels insecure or unsure about their opinions or views. 

Are we really supposed to preface every comment by saying, “Now I know truth can be subjective and perspectives depend on myriad personal factors … so please bare that in mind as I give the following opinion.”

C’mon dude. Harden up a bit. 

Edited September 22 by BaliDemon

[BaliDemon 401]

2 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I think we have another troll , who appears every school holidays 

It’s trolling to question list management decisions? 🤔

[picket fence 13,283]

1 hour ago, BaliDemon said:

I asked a Balinese Shaman what we can do about TMac. He replied:

”Tidak ada apa-apa. Dia bergerak lebih lambat dari seorang pemalas. Dia sudah matang “.

( “Nothing. He now moves slower than a sloth. He’s cooked.” )

Yep Gonski, but if, IF BBB can get his knee right he will still be useful!

[Smokey 3,955]

Thanks to both for their service, especially Tmac who has been a great servant across many roles over the years. They have nothing to offer moving forward from here though. 

[The heart beats true 15,485]

7 minutes ago, BaliDemon said:

It’s trolling to question list management decisions? 🤔

It’s not trolling to ask questions, but you’ve just been berating people for days who disagree with you. Why start a thread if your only intention is to come for anyone without the same opinion?

Theres lots of us here who don’t always see eye to eye, but we generally find a way to do it that’s respectful. 

[roy11 2,702]

4 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Yep Gonski, but if, IF BBB can get his knee right he will still be useful!

2021 -  Games Played 13 (11-1-1) - 25.13
2022 - Games Played 19 (12-0-7) - 30.19
2023 - Games Played 7 (5-2) 11.4

If his knee is right, what do you consider a pass mark for games played in 2024.

[leave it to deever 13,070]

I think Bbb will retire.

Tmac probably needs to as well.

He was all at sea in both finals and has played a handful of games this year. All of which he struggled in.

His season last year wasn't great either.

He's been a wonderful player but it seems a long time ago now.

[BaliDemon 401]

Guys & Dolls, they’re just list management questions. Please try to resist attacking me for posting them and have a good old debate about the topic at hand. Thanks. BD.