PREGAME: SF vs Carlton

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,483]

I have said it before and I will say it again we need to change the method to suit the personal. We will obviously missing first choice forwards for this game and beyond and that’s the way it is. What we do have left is good enough………but our method going forward MUST change. Our ball movement is way too slow and with little purpose other than to allow us time to set up behind the ball. It is quite frankly Auskick level stuff of winning the ball (contest) and bombing it forward with a more sophisticated defensive mechanism behind it to protect it. It is extremely conservative and I am over it. How about the defenders step up and do the job they should do and defend and we play a brand that allows our forwards the best opportunity to do their thing which is quick ball movement into an open forward line. It takes lights out at the Gabba or to be 4 goals down in the last 1/4 before we start to show some genuine attacking intent. I have been jealous watching the ball movement of the Collingwood, Giants and Lions over the last few days and I think what if. I don’t expect Bang Bang Bang every game but please Melbourne show some genuine attacking intent FFS and let’s see if we can create some magic in September.

[Demon17 4,543]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Shoulda..... coulda...... didn't 

I was very upbeat and confident against the Filth. Ostensibly we have the "game" to do so. We still do. What we dont have is the finish.

We're figuratively getting that horse to water..... but....

Strangely enough the scoreboard only ever reflects the finish and not the rest of the work.

I dont see how we win now.  I see how we compete. I see how in the game-general we'll play better. I dont see us presently capable of finishing off all the hard yards with a winning score.

We should be able to but we don't. 

The FD has its work cut out. 

We'll need to rob Peter to pay Paul, butbwill that be enough

Carlton smell blood...they should... we're haemorrhaging.

Good call, but my heart sank for this year when Petty went down. He was the solution, Melky only made it worse.

Not our year, but as shown Thursday, the Dees don't get blown away anymore and the forward set-up needs full overhaul for next season. Still in the window, and we have the Pies measure. 

They'll be runners up this year after seeing the Lions performance  last night.

[bobby1554 1,132]

5 minutes ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

I have said it before and I will say it again we need to change the method to suit the personal. We will obviously missing first choice forwards for this game and beyond and that’s the way it is. What we do have left is good enough………but our method going forward MUST change. Our ball movement is way too slow and with little purpose other than to allow us time to set up behind the ball. It is quite frankly Auskick level stuff of winning the ball (contest) and bombing it forward with a more sophisticated defensive mechanism behind it to protect it. It is extremely conservative and I am over it. How about the defenders step up and do the job they should do and defend and we play a brand that allows our forwards the best opportunity to do their thing which is quick ball movement into an open forward line. It takes lights out at the Gabba or to be 4 goals down in the last 1/4 before we start to show some genuine attacking intent. I have been jealous watching the ball movement of the Collingwood, Giants and Lions over the last few days and I think what if. I don’t expect Bang Bang Bang every game but please Melbourne show some genuine attacking intent FFS and let’s see if we can create some magic in September.

As a bona fide member of the flip flop club, I salute you sir. Well put.

[leave it to deever 15,336]

5 minutes ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

Our ball movement is way too slow and with little purpose other than to allow us time to set up behind the bal

And the Pies had eons to get numbers back all night. Couldn't swing a cat in our fwd line most of the time.

Good post.

[ElDiablo14 3,054]

11 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Pick 9 Weideman

Pick 10 H McKay

Pick 12 C Curnow

Pick 14 Hipwood

Pick 16 H Himmelberg

Oh what might have been 😔

Weideman might find himself our of the AFL in a year or so.

Didn't do enough at Essendon.  Not sure there will be a huge market for him if he is delisted.

[Nicko 1,223]

9 hours ago, Dee-monic said:

I would bring Harmes in for Brayshaw to perform the one role he is good at ---- putting a tag on Cerra to disrupt Carlton's midfield.

Harmes pulled a hammy on Friday morning in the scratch match against the blues….JJ will come in to replace Gus  

[Redleg 37,576]

Injuries are a major factor in finals.

We are the worst hit of the finals teams by a mile. Pies only without Daicos, Blues full strength, Lions full strength, Giants only Coniglio etc.

Gus going off, killed Petracca going forward and possibly a couple of extra goals.

How many sides could win without their Petty, Melk, Brown and Gus? Then replacement Tom Mac playing his first AFL game in 3 months.

Yet, if we kicked for goal at the league average accuracy, we would have beaten the Pies and been in the PF.

We now lose JVR this week.

We need to not give away a start, kick more accurately and maintain pressure and a PF could still be ours. Maybe with JVR back and if a miracle,  Gus too.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Redleg

[spirit of norm smith 12,903]

53 minutes ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

I have said it before and I will say it again we need to change the method to suit the personal. We will obviously missing first choice forwards for this game and beyond and that’s the way it is. What we do have left is good enough………but our method going forward MUST change. Our ball movement is way too slow and with little purpose other than to allow us time to set up behind the ball. It is quite frankly Auskick level stuff of winning the ball (contest) and bombing it forward with a more sophisticated defensive mechanism behind it to protect it. It is extremely conservative and I am over it. How about the defenders step up and do the job they should do and defend and we play a brand that allows our forwards the best opportunity to do their thing which is quick ball movement into an open forward line. It takes lights out at the Gabba or to be 4 goals down in the last 1/4 before we start to show some genuine attacking intent. I have been jealous watching the ball movement of the Collingwood, Giants and Lions over the last few days and I think what if. I don’t expect Bang Bang Bang every game but please Melbourne show some genuine attacking intent FFS and let’s see if we can create some magic in September.

ditto ditto ditto 

Yes yes yes.

We are slow and boring and go wide to Hunter and Lingers too much … and agree only get aggressive with play on and ball movements when down by +3-4 goals 

[chookrat 3,776]

We need to sort out our front half for Friday night without sacrificing our clearance and territory game. To do this:

Petracca has to play 50% forward which means we need midfield cover for him. JJ is the natural choice here but we could alternatively bring in Spargo as HF and have Sparrow play more minutes in the middle. I prefer JJ as he provides flexibility to play both in the middle and behind the ball.

With JVR out, we need to bring in a key position forward / relief ruck. I'd give TMac the job as our key forward with responsibility to nullify Weitering and bring in Schache as our second forward. I think Schache will work better with Tmac, Smith, and Fritsch than Grundy. I also think that Gawn is more valuable in the middle of the ball or a kick behind play than up forward, and bringing in Grundy takes away from Gawns strength. It will be interesting to see if Gawn backs himself to play predominantly forward and Grundy is brought in.

As for the sub, I'd imagine we'd give Laurie another go. While statistically he didn't set the world on fire he is part if a side that had 30 more inside 50's last week, plays the right way, and should get another go.

Scratch Laurie, Turner would offer flexibility if we lose a back or key forward or even if we need to roll the dice and swing May forward late or run Riv through the middle.

Edited September 9, 2023 by chookrat

[At the break of Gawn 3,488]

We lost to Carlton by a finger nail in the rain (which we’re terrible in). We’ve now got another chance at them in bone dry conditions

If we can’t get it done, then we don’t deserve to be in the prelim, let alone the GF.

Edited September 9, 2023 by At the break of Gawn

[Superunknown 3,311]

Use rivers in the middle more along with Pickett. Tomlo or Turner in to backfill?

Langdon is very concerning. Same for Salem. 
spargo in for smart kicking into the 50? Or WW2?

[Billy 1,964]

13 minutes ago, chookrat said:

We need to sort out our front half for Friday night without sacrificing our clearance and territory game. To do this:

Petracca has to play 50% forward which means we need midfield cover for him. JJ is the natural choice here but we could alternatively bring in Spargo as HF and have Sparrow play more minutes in the middle. I prefer JJ as he provides flexibility to play both in the middle and behind the ball.

With JVR out, we need to bring in a key position forward / relief ruck. I'd give TMac the job as our key forward with responsibility to nullify Weitering and bring in Schache as our second forward. I think Schache will work better with Tmac, Smith, and Fritsch than Grundy. I also think that Gawn is more valuable in the middle of the ball or a kick behind play than up forward, and bringing in Grundy takes away from Gawns strength. It will be interesting to see if Gawn backs himself to play predominantly forward and Grundy is brought in.

As for the sub, I'd imagine we'd give Laurie another go. While statistically he didn't set the world on fire he is part if a side that had 30 more inside 50's last week, plays the right way, and should get another go.

Scratch Laurie, Turner would offer flexibility if we lose a back or key forward or even if we need to roll the dice and swing May forward late or run Riv through the middle.

We won’t beat Carlton with Tmac, Schache, Smith & Chandler in the forward line

[The Swimming Dee 1,852]

Langdon had a bad game but the narrative that he is a concern is I overblown emotional hysterics. He has been a star for us since he came to the club…I’m positive he will bounce back.

Reading this thread and others at the moment, you could be mistaken for thinking that we got completely outplayed and thrashed by the bottom side. We nearly beat the team that finished top. If we kicked a bit straighter we would have. 
Some people need to get some perspective 

[Demons11 6,404]

12 minutes ago, Billy said:

We won’t beat Carlton with Tmac, Schache, Smith & Chandler in the forward line

If we win enough midfield ball, we will win.  We had enough opportunities on Thursday night.  In better conditions Kozzie to kick 5 and Trac 3 🤞

[GCDee 3,006]

JJ in for Tmac

Grundy for JVR

SparGOAT for Gus 

JJ in allows Trac to play forward a lot more and Trac takes Tmacs spot. 
Grundy will offer a lot more in the ruck than JVR when max is off but [censored] all up forward. 
SparGOAT can at least deliver the ball inside 50 hopefully making Fritta and Smith more potent. 
 

FB: Salem May Mcvee

HB: Rivers Lever Bowey 

C: Langdon JJ Hunter 

HF: Kozzie Smith ANB

FF: Chandler Fritta Trac

Fol: Gawn Oliver Viney 

 

Int: SparGOAT Grundy Sparrow Hibberd

Sub: Woey 

[OhMyDees 1,321]

JJ for Gus

Woey for Laurie

Grundy for JVR.

[Demonland 64,807]

[Roost it far 6,043]

3 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Shoulda..... coulda...... didn't 

I was very upbeat and confident against the Filth. Ostensibly we have the "game" to do so. We still do. What we dont have is the finish.

We're figuratively getting that horse to water..... but....

Strangely enough the scoreboard only ever reflects the finish and not the rest of the work.

I dont see how we win now.  I see how we compete. I see how in the game-general we'll play better. I dont see us presently capable of finishing off all the hard yards with a winning score.

We should be able to but we don't. 

The FD has its work cut out. 

We'll need to rob Peter to pay Paul, butbwill that be enough

Carlton smell blood...they should... we're haemorrhaging.

I’m sorry but how can you not see us winning when literally 2 more shots on goal go through and we’d of win on Thursday. We play Carlton and yes I’ll admit watching them in the first half against Sydney I thought we were toast. However we’re not, far from it. We played the Collingwood game much like the GWS game, almost identical in fact bar the rain although it was damp on Thursday. After that game we were unbeaten bar the Blues “not really a loss” loss. We’re in this, right in it, The Bears will be tough but we’ll beat Carlton. 

[Jaded No More 57,820]

43 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Injuries are a major factor in finals.

We are the worst hit of the finals teams by a mile. Pies only without Daicos, Blues full strength, Lions full strength, Giants only Coniglio etc.

Gus going off, killed Petracca going forward and possibly a couple of extra goals.

How many sides could win without their Petty, Melk, Brown and Gus? Then replacement Tom Mac playing his first AFL game in 3 months.

Yet, if we kicked for goal at the league average accuracy, we would have beaten the Pies and been in the PF.

We now lose JVR this week.

We need to not give away a start, kick more accurately and maintain pressure and a PF could still be ours. Maybe with JVR back and if a miracle,  Gus too.

Well Blues aren’t full strength. They’ll be without McKay and Martin (pending a lawyer miracle). 
Our issue is that virtually all our injuries bar Gus are in the one area of the ground. We have lost Petty, Melksham and now JVR up forward. Our forwardline is suspect at best and unable to kick a score at worse. 
 

We are lucky that we have the game and the defense to keep scores low and make games a slog, so we are always a chance. If we take our chances in front of goal we can absolutely beat Carlton. The bigger issue is how do we get over Brisbane who we conceded over 100 points at the G last time we met. 

[Billy 1,964]

I know we can’t make to many changes but geez Salem has been really ordinary for over a month now

[layzie 28,721]

38 minutes ago, The Swimming Dee said:

Langdon had a bad game but the narrative that he is a concern is I overblown emotional hysterics. He has been a star for us since he came to the club…I’m positive he will bounce back.

Reading this thread and others at the moment, you could be mistaken for thinking that we got completely outplayed and thrashed by the bottom side. We nearly beat the team that finished top. If we kicked a bit straighter we would have. 
Some people need to get some perspective 

The problem is in finals, nearly is not good enough. Did you win or did you lose, that's what the legacies are judged by. 

Geelong nearly beat Brisbane in the 2004 prelim but fluffed a lot of shots, they led at half time in the 2019 prelim but same thing, does anyone remember these facts or give a toss? No.

During the season is a great time to take learnings and pat ourselves on the back for honourable losses but it doesn't cut it in finals. If we kicked straighter we would have won correct, why didn't we kick straighter is my question. Was it weather, technique or did we simply choke at the critical moment after being accurate for most of the season?

Close is just not good enough in these games. Perspective is great to have but reality bites. 

Edited September 10, 2023 by layzie

[chookrat 3,776]

31 minutes ago, Billy said:

We won’t beat Carlton with Tmac, Schache, Smith & Chandler in the forward line

Billy we don't have any other options. Maybe swap Schache for Turner.

[The Swimming Dee 1,852]

2 minutes ago, layzie said:

The problem is in finals, nearly is not good enough. Did you win or did you lose, that's what the legacies are judged by. 

Geelong nearly beat Brisbane in the 2004 prelim but fluffed a lot of shots, they led at half time in the 2019 prelim but same thing, does anyone remember these facts or give a toss? No.

During the season is a great time to take learnings and pat ourselves on the back for honourable losses but it doesn't cut it in finals. If we kicked straighter we would have won correct, why didn't we kick straighter is my question. Was it weather, technique or did we simply choke at the critical moment after being accurate for most of the season.

Close is just not good enough in these games. Perspective is great to have but reality bites. 

Agreed. All I’m saying is those on here essentially saying we suck and won’t win against Carlton should calm down. We nearly beat Collingwood which was a 50/50 game in my opinion 

[Macca 16,173]

Might be worth trying Langdon & Hunter on the opposite wings just for a change up.  Both tend to hug the boundary with their kicks but switching can have the effect of the kicks going inboard (or enabling both players to move inboard before disposing of the ball)

As it stands, we're not getting enough effective kicks from either player (or dynamic possessions)

And right now, the opposition know exactly where both players kicks are going (down the line) ... easily defended

[Redleg 37,576]

9 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Well Blues aren’t full strength. They’ll be without McKay and Martin (pending a lawyer miracle). 
Our issue is that virtually all our injuries bar Gus are in the one area of the ground. We have lost Petty, Melksham and now JVR up forward. Our forwardline is suspect at best and unable to kick a score at worse. 
 

We are lucky that we have the game and the defense to keep scores low and make games a slog, so we are always a chance. If we take our chances in front of goal we can absolutely beat Carlton. The bigger issue is how do we get over Brisbane who we conceded over 100 points at the G last time we met. 

Yes about Blues, but I was talking about the first week of finals. I know those two are now out. Also a fit Brown would have been handy this week. 

The bigger issue isn’t beating Lions, as we are not there yet.