Post Match Discussion - Round 2

[GCDee 3,199]

58 minutes ago, Hot as Hell said:

My God. 

A team choc full of talent. Is that the same AFL Lions team that surrendered meekly to a second rate Saints team? 

No wonder we fail to achieve greatness. Being satisfied by a win against the worst teams provides the platform for being satisfied with a loss against a good team. 

I thought we had left that mindset behind us. 

Would you agree that we were a team choc full of talent 2 years ago? 

Because realistically that's where the lions are at now. 

Talented but raw.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,794]

25 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

We are definitely 1 quality mid short - can’t wait for Viney to return. Bugg and Harmes are depth at best. Bugg’s skills are atrocious- that easy missed goal was shocking and if he had nailed it would have iced the game earlier. The commentators on TV bemoaned our lack of spread. Come on down Billy Stretch. I am also left wondering how good a game day coach Goodwin is. His tactic of loading the backline leaves us vulnerable to rebounds from the forward line.

Agree with most of what you are saying here fowler.  What's apparent to me is that our midfield has been almost entirely handed over to the new gaurd of Clarry, Salem, Trac, Tyson, ANB etc, from the old gaurd of Jones and Vince. The drive that Jones previously gave us out of the guts in years gone by was phenominal.  Being down Viney as well is really hurting at the moment in that context.  They were up against some pretty decient mature midfielders in Beams (though perhaps under done, he has still revived that A grade level at Brisbane) and Zorco (though being sat on by Vince).

But that those young guys are now capable of driving our midfeild is a great sign in their development.  I certainly hope Salem grows into the role and gets better as time goes on.  Think they really  also do need someone like Brayshaw or Harmes to go the next step and become a grunt ball winning machine.  

I think once this new midfield setup settles into its role and develops further as the season goes on, we will become a much more formidable team this year and moving forward.  Will certainly be aided by Viney's return, but I'm so glad they are not rushing him back and his absence presents an opertunity for others to step up into that role that might not exist in the same way if he was playing.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

11 hours ago, Hot as Hell said:

Imagine our other big defender trying to match up on Brown. It is almost unthinkable. 

Frost is no match winner but he us a courageous competitor with height and speed and the only player we have capable of even looking Brown in the eyes. 

Frost in to cover Brown is a no brainer this week.  I would sacrifice a small in Hunt and give him a breather for this one.  Sometimes a week off can do wonders for a young body and legs, especially given his break neck style.

Brayshaw for Bugg.  Sorry but Bugg just can't be played forward near the sticks.  Complete waste of an entry inside 50 if he gets near it.  Back pocket or hard tag role only please.

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

9 minutes ago, Nasher said:

As we know Wiseblood, if you're not outraged by the result, it must mean you're pleased with it. There's no such thing as grey.

This forum isn’t the place for measured reasonable responses @Nasher...

[Winter Dan 428]

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

In the 3rd and early in the last we were getting killed in the clearances so I think it is partly what you say (our setup) but not because we're winning and kicking it down the opposition's throat. It's because we stream forward expecting to win the clearance and when we don't were caught on the back foot 

Agree. Goodwin is so intent on playing offensive football that he fails to be a realist and accept that in the long long game of AFL football, opposition teams will have their patches of winning the stoppages (especially when Clarry is having a breather). We need to adjust for a bit of Rope-a-dope, with extra's in the back 50. Having extra's on the half back line streaming fwd is not wants needed. One or two in the back 50 is the way, slowing the game down and counter attacking.

We know it happens every game, just need to pick when to implement it for a period.

Starting to get very frustrated with the Lever situation. What the hell did we bring him in for? He's only listed as 92 kg, thats not key position. No wonder he falls over. Make him a 3rd tall and we all expect our def to become seriously solid. Goodwin needs to understand that a solid def actually enhances our offence.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 minute ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Agree with most of what you are saying here fowler.  What's apparent to me is that our midfield has been almost entirely handed over to the new gaurd of Clarry, Salem, Trac, Tyson, ANB etc, from the old gaurd of Jones and Vince. The drive that Jones previously gave us out of the guts in years gone by was phenominal.  Being down Viney as well is really hurting at the moment in that context.  They were up against some pretty decient mature midfielders in Beams (though perhaps under done, he has still revived that A grade level at Brisbane) and Zorco (though being sat on by Vince).

But that those young guys are now capable of driving our midfeild is a great sign in their development.  I certainly hope Salem grows into the role and gets better as time goes on.  Think they really  also do need someone like Brayshaw or Harmes to go the next step and become a grunt ball winning machine.  

I think once this new midfield setup settles into its role and develops further as the season goes on, we will become a much more formidable team this year and moving forward.  Will certainly be aided by Viney's return, but I'm so glad they are not rushing him back and his absence presents an opertunity for others to step up into that role that might not exist in the same way if he was playing.

Tracc needs to be utilised on the outside as a mostly outside mid if we are to get the most from his silky skills and strong run/finish and will also allow him to drift forward more often and more quickly if he isn't being asked to do as much bullocking work inside.  Extremely hard to match up on up forward as we know. Will be fixed with the return of Jack.  Fingers crossed that happens by Rnd 8 ?

[Wiseblood 24,637]

26 minutes ago, Nasher said:

As we know Wiseblood, if you're not outraged by the result, it must mean you're pleased with it. There's no such thing as grey.

Yes, very true.

I don't understand why he felt the need to attack me, though.  I was just making a simple point and he threw his arms up in the air with his holier than thou attitude and pontificated on something that had nothing to do with my post.

[Nasher 33,607]

2 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Yes, very true.

I don't understand why he felt the need to attack me, though.  I was just making a simple point and he threw his arms up in the air with his holier than thou attitude and pontificated on something that had nothing to do with my post.

It's just his MO, it's why I stopped engaging with him years ago. It's a shame because it diminishes the value of his posts, which are often pretty good.

[DemonOX 8,779]

I tell ya one thing I was at the game and sweating my balls off (just sitting there) and it would have been a hell of alot worse had we lost that game. 

Speaking with other supporters there, they are just as frustrated with the way we disappear in games just like us on dland. 

Edited April 1, 2018 by DemonOX

[In Harmes Way 7,730]

With the extra hour in bed at 3am this morning, I was reflecting that if we are to be a true force in September, we need to be rock solid defensively. And to get to this point, we really should be using Lever as he was being used last year (that’s why we liked him). These two points lead me to believe we need to move TMac down back with his brother and Lever as the three mainstays. Jetta, Hibbo and Hunt provide the run. We should be using the next 5-6 weeks to refine a TMac free attack that can kick 100+ points as it did last night.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,794]

Somewhat random thought, but how good is this Bayley Fritsch kid?  

Gee he did both some classy and gutsy stuff yesterday.  I recon he is the most worthy wearer of the 31 jumper we have had in a while.

Edited April 1, 2018 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[In Harmes Way 7,730]

Oh - before I forget

i hope the spud that rolled Bayley Fritsch onto his neck in the 3Q tackle that saw him leave the field is cited and given weeks for that. It could have been seriously dangerous and was completely unwarranted.

[Mondê 525]

4 points in the bag, but fadeouts need to be addressed pronto. Lots of people bashing Lewis... and it's fair enough. Move him to the coaches box and bring Gus in. We need to instill some confidence in Gus, he's our future not Lewis. The time is now. 

Is it just me or has Hunt lost a yard or two? Where's the trademark run and carry gone? It has really exposed him as an average footballer. Stretch comes in to that role for mine.

Lever needs time to build up that matchday chemistry, Frost in to free him up. 

Really noticing the absence of Viney and Tom McDonald.

Super impressed with Oscar's first two outings, he's truly accountable and reads the play beautifully. We've got a staple here ladies and gents. 

Clarry doing Clarry things, cannot recall a more spectacular first 37 games from a Demon. Exciting stuff. 

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

11 hours ago, Biffen said:

Then you've never been there.

It is magnificent.

I was referring to the comment i made in the If we lose to Brisbane i will.......i have actually spent a lot of time there and even had a few arguments with the Stazi police haha......yes Biff it is magnificent, i have even been up the top of the Zizkov in Prague 3. Not sure i could live there permanently tho, although i could drink the beer forever.

[Hot as Hell 466]

1 hour ago, DemonOX said:

And it was extremely humid. After the game it looked like the players had played in the rain. 

Ummm. That would be both teams, not just us. 

[rjay 24,824]

A couple of points and questions...

We are not playing good footy at the moment, I think we play some really good passages but are not putting it together hence the drop offs in quarters.

As a part of the previous point, we seem to be getting in each others way a lot. The amount of times Oliver was cut out by his own teammates was driving me nuts. Jones was a big culprit (still suffers a bit from the Moloney mindset) but not on his own, let Clarry come through when he is in line with the footy. Get in behind him and clear a path or spread, he will win it and give it to you.

The more the ball is in Oliver's hands the better I feel.

...and to that point, we often have too many flying at the ball. Classic Lever spoil on Oscar in the first Q but not just that, it's happening too much. As I say we are not playing good footy at the moment.

Not being at the ground last night makes it difficult to see what was going on position wise but was Bugg playing a defensive role on Hodge?

I was meaning to start a thread on this before the season started but how long do people think Lewis has left?

He's contracted another year but I can't see it unless he's willing to do time at Casey. The end is coming quickly, frustration and time on hands and knees are a sure sign.

[old dee 23,704]

2 minutes ago, rjay said:

A couple of points and questions...

We are not playing good footy at the moment, I think we play some really good passages but are not putting it together hence the drop offs in quarters.

As a part of the previous point, we seem to be getting in each others way a lot. The amount of times Oliver was cut out by his own teammates was driving me nuts. Jones was a big culprit (still suffers a bit from the Moloney mindset) but not on his own, let Clarry come through when he is in line with the footy. Get in behind him and clear a path or spread, he will win it and give it to you.

The more the ball is in Oliver's hands the better I feel.

...and to that point, we often have too many flying at the ball. Classic Lever spoil on Oscar in the first Q but not just that, it's happening too much. As I say we are not playing good footy at the moment.

Not being at the ground last night makes it difficult to see what was going on position wise but was Bugg playing a defensive role on Hodge?

I was meaning to start a thread on this before the season started but how long do people think Lewis has left?

He's contracted another year but I can't see it unless he's willing to do time at Casey. The end is coming quickly, frustration and time on hands and knees are a sure sign.

Lewis is very close to the end. IMO right now he would playing at Casey but for his reputation. I was hoping he could see out this year but I reckon he will really be struggling by August. 

[Willmoy1947 4,077]

Stopped reading after P6, don't think i missed anything.

Lever....second AFL game for us, not going to, or probably doesn't want to walk in, and take over the backline, and from my experience it is always expected.They, (the backline) were talking all game, It will happen gradually.

Loved seeing Garlett and Hogan interviews. Good humble MFC Players.

Great Fox commentating by three ex Brisbane players and someone else. Couldn't contain themselves in last qtr, but justice was done.

Looks like 50mtr infringements fixed at the moment, as well as Max's "nothings in it" in the middle. His game is "becoming a presence" now.

Three games i saw "they" tried to get C'wobbles and TWSNBN and B bags across the line. But missed out on all three...ha ha...

 

[old dee 23,704]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

Frost in to cover Brown is a no brainer this week.  I would sacrifice a small in Hunt and give him a breather for this one.  Sometimes a week off can do wonders for a young body and legs, especially given his break neck style.

Brayshaw for Bugg.  Sorry but Bugg just can't be played forward near the sticks.  Complete waste of an entry inside 50 if he gets near it.  Back pocket or hard tag role only please.

You have my vote RN.

[Diamond_Jim 12,511]

34 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

I tell ya one thing I was at the game and sweating my balls off (just sitting there) and it would have been a hell of alot worse had we lost that game. 

Speaking with other supporters there, they are just as frustrated with the way we disappear in games just like us on dland. 

It was not too difficult to realise we would slow down in the second half due to the conditions.

At the half time break we had a 36 point lead....

Smart coaching says let's take a little heat out of the game and chip it around. Slow possession football mixed with five minute bursts of frenetic attack. Play the game between the opposition half back line and our fifty metre line for ten minutes.

We seem to have only one plan and it just doesn't work in all conditions. Remember our bad form with the wind last year cost us two games.

There are lots of variations but this is what we pay big money to the coaches for. One dimensional game plans are just dumb.

[jnrmac 20,052]

2 hours ago, Ben E said:

I’ve seen enough under Goodwin to know that most teams fear us. Yes, we have lapses in games and have a few run-ons against us, but we push to the very end, keep coming and are rarely out of it. I lost count of how many comebacks we staged last year. Already this season, we’ve responded well from almost 5 goals down to the Cats, and we stepped up a gear when headed last night - in difficult conditions.

This current mob do not fold or capitulate in the manner of years gone by. Opposing teams know they haven’t got us until the final siren sounds.

Comedy gold.

[DEE fence 5,002]

Hodge, almost won the game for them from his wheelchair. Bloke is a better General than Monash. 

ANB was ok, Fritsch is super clean, i actually thought it was a spear takle/suplex on him that was mega dangerous and reportable, he kept the arm around his throat when he wàs upside down.

Wish Stef Martin still played for us. So love Gawn.

Vince great role on Zorko.

Had a heart attack but personally giving a pass becaise of conditions and travel.

Between Melksham and Bugg being unlucky we didnt kill them dead sooner, miss too many always brings the other team into the game.

Pederson reliable but we really need Tom. We miss the blond...

Hunt Lewis Jetta Salem Hibberd average or worse. Jetta really had his hands full wasnt bad just didnt win Christensen was on.

Frost needs to be in to free up Lever.

i said to my brother Omac was best defender yesterdy, we should be doing back flips the kid has come good-this is a huge upside - we have our own home grown big defender, took forever but now we have a defender coming into their prime when for the ast 30 years we have had to buy them (excpet for Chip) as they approach retirement (Rivers and Judy were mid size for mine)

[SFebes 4,884]

Negatives:

• Still lack leadership. Lewis spends more time on all fours fumbling than being composed on his feet, Vince nearly time up, Jones well I've never been a huge fan.
• Backline seems confused and out of touch. Lever, Jetta, Hunt all bereft of confidence so far
• Goodwin. I'm not too sure he is up to it yet. All of last year we let teams get a run on with loose players out the back and easy goals, so far in both games this has happened twice.
• Brain fade quarters, as above.
• Harmes needs to stop spoiling our players going for big marks, in fact many have done this in recent weeks. No players at ground level allows for an easy opposition takeaway.
• Bugg, surely since mid way through last year he worked on his goal kicking. Seemed to work hard last night and run his guts out but coughs it up too often
• Lever. Been disappointing to say the least so far, is playing a bigger role as second tall rather than 3rd man up. Do we put Tom McDonald back there or bring in Frost to free him up. I think we may need Frost in this week to cover Ben Brown
• Disposal is still sloppy, although last night was humid and dewy.
• Salem looks lost
• umpiring
• Weather. Will this game have a Darwin like effect on the players like coming back from the NT, I certainly hope not against our bogey side. I'll be watching for heavy legs next week
• Every side in the comp will now see us as mentally weak, 50 point leads and we could still blow it. I think we've missed a good opportunity in the first two games to really stamp our foot on the comp and not show weakness.
• Team selection each week

 

Positives:

• Gawn, Hogan, Petracca & Olivers starts to the season
• Stopping the momentum and attacking to run away 26 point winners, not easy to do in those conditions.
• Hogans run down and chase, something Jess would rarely do in times past.
• Return to form of Garlett, his lift provided the spark to win
• Oscar McDonald, I was critical of him a while back but hes developed into a very consistent player and important for us now, good on him.
• Oliver can be a star, when he actually kicks the ball hes quite a good kick.
• No injuries! Good start to the year I think
• 4 points, bank them and move on
• in the 8, lets build from here.
• Brisbane aren't as bad as people think, they have some real stars in their team and raw talent.
• Lowering our eyes and hitting up option in 50 rather than bombing it away

 

Jury is still out on Goodwin for me, not sure if anyone saw the way McCartney stared at him but I'm sure a few of us were thinking the same. Let's [censored] North!

Edited April 1, 2018 by SFebey

[Cassiew 1,903]

4 hours ago, Demon77 said:

Yes, Jones played in 06 

So he has finals experience too, non?

[DV8 2,271]

11 hours ago, GCDee said:

I get the frustration of losing such a big lead... but in seasons past it took us playing at our best and our opposition to be playing at 80% for us to have a sniff. 

Now we are playing at 80% if not worse than that and grinding out interstate wins. 

I am happy, I wish however for Goody to take more action during a QTR rather than wait to QTR time breaks to make changes when damage has been done. 

I think we will really kick into gear around Anzac day and finally have our back line gelling and generate some serious scores of half back. And before we know it tmac and viney will be back. 

It's really not doom and gloom just a matter of playing some blokes into form and getting our structures right. 

 

I agree we show the ability to fightback now, compared to the post 2010 era, but even in the early 2000's we weren't all that good at lifting, against a team that was keeping its foot on our neck.

 

This is a habit of Melbourne teams that have tended to be front runners. good in the easy going.  bad against Real Pressure teams. found out in finals.

Yesterday we played a team of kids.  We have a few years on them.

 

This is what I want to see from this club/team. a club team that will maintain the pressure on oppositions sides until they break.

What worries me is that even tho we might rebuild the list, we still might have those traditional Melbourne flaws of being too soft to bury opponents. (individuals and teams).

TMac and Viney; we cannot keep making excuses when a couple of senior players are out.  2 out of 22 .

 

Its just that we HAVE to Expect More,,,,  if we are to ever do better. 

This club has done very well at making many players wealthy, and they didn't achieve, or perform at their absolute possible best, most professional, for us.

 

Yet we still herald them as champs.   champs of what?  nice boys club.

 

It has to change, or we will continue putting out more, and more, of the same as in our past.