Farewell Jack Watts

[Demons1858 1,760]

1 hour ago, jackaub said:

It appears to me to be pretty black and white

More likely to be black and teal

[DTJ 95]

Geelong came out this week and said Watts to Geelong is unlikely due to their ability to get the deal done. 

The fix to this might be Menzel who's after a longer term contract than the 1-yr offered at Geelong. We could offer him 2-3 years for the trade.

Given the risk to his knees pick swaps would be required too. Our second round 28 for theirs 21 or our 3rd round 46 for their Motlop compo pick 35.

 

Thoughts? And if you think it's terrible please let me know what you'd reasonably take instead.

Edited October 11, 2017 by DTJ

[Demons1858 1,760]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

I don't get this new argument that if you are happy to move a player on you are not entitled to seek a fair price. More crap from Player Managers.

Very true. Everything is relative. I suspect Geelong see a fire sale opportunity. "We love you Jack you are in your prime blah blah blah but we only think you are worth squat in terms of draft picks back to MFC". Suspect  Jack wants to go to Geelong and stay in Vic but Geelong want a bargain with either Watts or Stringer as they are on the outer at their clubs. Ablett is their priority and they have limited draft picks to bargain with this year

[stynewillalwaysbeonthevine 84]

I reckon it’s a good idea. I like Menzel (except for his one eyed nature of scoring goals).

Its probably a straight swap for mine. 2 year deal and move on. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

A huge no from me.  Menzel might kick goals but his defensive pressure and willingness to chase are horrendous, and we know how important that is these days.  You know something is wrong when a club is letting a 40 goal a year player go for nothing.

[DubDee 25,858]

absolutely not. Menzel was almost not offered a contract by the cats.  he applies zero pressure and you can't afford anyone in your team like that

id entertain Darcy Lang and a pick swap

[ManDee 7,134]

fro?

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

No, Watts offers a lot more in my opinion.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Na

Soft as

Shirks contests

Tackles with one arm

Won't put his head over the ball

Has entrepreneurial aspirations

Pass

[whatwhat say what 22,749]

first things first, mods please merge with the existing watts thread

more importantly, menzel is a free agent and can walk wherever he wants

thirdly, 

1 minute ago, jumbo returns said:

Na

Soft as

Shirks contests

Tackles with one arm

Won't put his head over the ball

Has entrepreneurial aspirations

Pass

is this watts or menzel being described?

[ChewyOnMyBoot 152]

2 hours ago, grazman said:

There are a lot of opinions on here, to paraphrase an old saying I doubt Jack is as good or bad as many on here are making him out to be.

It tends  to remind me of the current US President - people aren't interested in the truth as much as they are in confirmation bias.  It's why Fake News keeps getting a run.  It's the most simplistic form of counter-narrative*.   You don't need to worry about tiresome tasks like researching or thinking to refute arguments based on evidence and logic. You simply label something as being incompatible with what you choose to believe.  It will usually strike a chord with a certain number of people who I'd like to think are the vocal minority, because fear is a greater driver than hope. 

 

 

* other than the age old 'I know you are, but what am I?' rebuttal.

Surely this has to be the winner of the meat pack.

I can accept that within the few limitations/downfalls that I possess (joke Joyce), one of them could very well be having confirmation bias when it comes to the topic of Jack Watts.

Thanks grazman for your clear perspective and wise words.

[Nasher 33,616]

Draft picks or bust. Mahoney and team have demonstrated ability to magic second round draft picks in to something more useful. Swapping him for another talented by flawed player defeats the purpose.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,215]

54 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I genuinely don't get what the trade-Watts crew here don't understand about the other perspective on this, which is hardly a controversial point of view.

Much of it has to do with value - many here (and most journalists I have read recently) think Watts' trade value is worth less than his value to the MFC going forward. Simple.

This is not a remotely intellectual or conceptually challenging issue. It baffles me that some here think they are legitimate geniuses for seeing what others, in their view, fail to see.

Put simply - we get it. We just don't necessarily agree.

 

That's fine Ron and I can definitely see that argument. I guess it's those who are using it as an excuse to take potshots at Goodwin, Mahoney, McCartney et al which could potentially lead to destabilisation at the club which is the concern.

[jnrmac 20,060]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

I don't get this new argument that if you are happy to move a player on you are not entitled to seek a fair price. More crap from Player Managers.

Hardly a shock they would be speaking their own book....

[jumbo returns 6,741]

34 minutes ago, DemonAndrew said:

first things first, mods please merge with the existing watts thread

more importantly, menzel is a free agent and can walk wherever he wants

thirdly, 

is this watts or menzel being described?

Boom Tish!

[jnrmac 20,060]

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I genuinely don't get what the trade-Watts crew here don't understand about the other perspective on this, which is hardly a controversial point of view.

Much of it has to do with value - many here (and most journalists I have read recently) think Watts' trade value is worth less than his value to the MFC going forward. Simple.

This is not a remotely intellectual or conceptually challenging issue. It baffles me that some here think they are legitimate geniuses for seeing what others, in their view, fail to see.

Put simply - we get it. We just don't necessarily agree.

 

I don't know why I am wasting time on this but here goes. Compare the situation with Sylvia. They're different players but the situation has striking similarities.

Sylvia was a 10 year player that never finished inside the top 5 in the B&F. He finished 5th twice from memory.

A top draft pick with talent to burn.

Had off field issues and was an extremely inconsistent player. 

His best was matchwinning.

He could have been elite if his preparation and training standards were that expected of a professional athlete. 

We traded Sylvia for what became Vince.

We were never going to get better with Sylvia. Despite umpteen counselling sessions about lifting his standards he was a party boy. He could never be relied upon to give his all in the way that, say, Nathan Jones can be. He most likely led other astray and from a culture perspective he was a negative. He was the classic coaster that had raw talent as a junior but never did the work required to be great.

Now Jack is not Sylvia but the similarities are there. If Jack pulls his finger out and commits to being great like he was implored to do at last years b&f by your love child Roos then we will all be thankful. But he is 9 years into a career, still getting dropped for not meeting standards and reading between the lines, didn't rehab properly from the hammy.

My view is we will never get bettter with Jack Watts. And if younger players see what he is allowed to get away with then they will think 'why do I have to do the hard work?' He has trade value and it wil send an extremely strong message about the standards we want as a club. 

We may well get a decent pick and a player that can develop. Or we may trade that pick for a proven performer.

We, as supporters, need to demand more. Non-negotiable work ethic week in week out. Otherwise we will remain a mediocre side that misses finals because we are mentally fragile. You have to weed poor cultures out of teams and from all reports Jack has a poor culture. The fact that he is popular makes it even worse. Other players watch him as a senior player and see what he does and how he performs.

Those that think the footy department don't know what they are doing need their heads read. Sure they make mistakes but this won't be one of them.

IMO Jack isn't gone yet. He may well turn around and say 'stuff you, I'm staying and I'll show you.' If he pulls his finger out I for one will be very happy. As I suspect most supporters will be.

 

 

[CityDee 738]

No way on Menzel . 

[binman 42,929]

1 hour ago, Smokey said:

Am I the only one that hopes Viney smashes him the first time he goes near the footy playing for another team? 

I hope so. But i would be surprised given  the angst he inspires in some people

Edited October 11, 2017 by binman

[dl4e 5,851]

So Port have got Rockliff and are interested in Watts for what might be pick 29 or 30. Talk about helping a club out. I can see the possible whys of Melbourne getting rid of Watts but he is too good a player to get rid of for pick 30. If he stays well he has to do the things we want from him or play at Casey. Why help out a side like Port who are level with us or maybe even just infront.

[Call Me What You Will 751]

Now that we have Lever, any thoughts of simply taking the Watts deal/plan off the table?? 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,754]

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

Na

Soft as

Shirks contests

Tackles with one arm

Won't put his head over the ball

Has entrepreneurial aspirations

Pass

What does this mean? Given the rest of the post I assume it's stated as a negative...but why?

[rolling fog 1,207]

16 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Didn't Oliver mention McCartney?

He definitely did - he was the one who told him to pull his head in back in January. 

Moreso those from the Watts faction - read: Trenners, Jones. 

Just running it up the flag pole is all. 

[PaulRB 6,362]

Let’s assume Jack sees the light and decides to stay and, to paraphrase Roos, decides to be great, what does he need to do immediately to start earning back the respect and trust of the coach, FD and LG? 

[hemingway 7,627]

23 minutes ago, Call Me What You Will said:

Now that we have Lever, any thoughts of simply taking the Watts deal/plan off the table?? 

This would be sensible but cant see it happening. 

[GawnWithTheWind 604]

I follow a few of the fitness staff on instagram, more so for training tips and to get an insight into how AFL athletes prepare than to peer into what the dees players are doing.

However, this morning one of them had Spencer, Trengove and watts in the Instagram story.

Good to see Watts in there working in his off-season, bad to see him just doing bicep curls. Curls will only help him look better in his shorts rather than becoming a better AFL athlete. Maybe I missed all of the functional stuff he did prior... but he looked pretty keen on making the guns bigger.