POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 7

[Soidee 1,496]

Emotionally drained after this one.  We have basically thrown in the towel for finals, plenty for the club to ponder yet again.

the MFC wants to give its supporters hope, hmmm WTF does that actually mean? This team regardless of who gets picked get beaten up by teams who are in bad poor form.  I ask myself why?  I don't think they want it bad enough yet, and meanwhile as membership passes 40,000 for first time in history, this club will be scoffed at for falling over in winnable games.

Its time within the walls of the MFC for serious discussion on recruiting leaders to our club.  Leaders who can take the fight onfield instead of the trash we are served up year after year.

This group now have extinguished any hope for finals based on these easy losses.  It's simply bad football by this club.  The club promises a lot but cannot deliver.  I'm convinced now of the fact they cannot deliver.

the MCG our once proud home now seems meaningless when turning up to watch the MFC. Bye bye 2017.

[pinkshark 950]

1 minute ago, Soidee said:

Emotionally drained after this one.  We have basically thrown in the towel for finals, plenty for the club to ponder yet again.

the MFC wants to give its supporters hope, hmmm WTF does that actually mean? This team regardless of who gets picked get beaten up by teams who are in bad poor form.  I ask myself why?  I don't think they want it bad enough yet, and meanwhile as membership passes 40,000 for first time in history, this club will be scoffed at for falling over in winnable games.

Its time within the walls of the MFC for serious discussion on recruiting leaders to our club.  Leaders who can take the fight onfield instead of the trash we are served up year after year.

This group now have extinguished any hope for finals based on these easy losses.  It's simply bad football by this club.  The club promises a lot but cannot deliver.  I'm convinced now of the fact they cannot deliver.

the MCG our once proud home now seems meaningless when turning up to watch the MFC. Bye bye 2017.

settle. the. [censored]. down.

[Dockett 32 1,239]

31 minutes ago, olisik said:

Melbourne coach says tackling pressure and team defence cost Dees
http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-05-07/dees-attitude-was-questionable-goodwin

I think Goodwin was really [censored] about two things in his presser. Firstly the casual/ undisciplined crap that went on down back( will have to watch replay more closely to identify who will make way for Melkshan down there, but he was clearly [censored] off with one or a few ) .

Secondly  I felt he was equally [censored] that they had  9 shots to two or something like that in the first quarter. Again will have to watch again but from memory there were some rubbish turnovers early that contributed.

Don't know why but feel Kennedy could get a shot next week.

[Soidee 1,496]

Just now, pinkshark said:

settle. the. [censored]. down.

Why? Bcos you say so?  Fat chance!   We should never have lost this one , nor the Fremantle game.  It will cost us a position in the 8.  Simply not acceptable now!  

[Moonshadow 17,675]

Effectively another 8 point game when trying to fight for a finals spot. We are now 10th when we should be at least 8th, maybe 7th or 6th. Very disappointing. 

We lack leadership in tight games and until we overcome this we will continue to be mediocre at best 

[Sir Why You Little 37,008]

2 minutes ago, Soidee said:

Emotionally drained after this one.  We have basically thrown in the towel for finals, plenty for the club to ponder yet again.

the MFC wants to give its supporters hope, hmmm WTF does that actually mean? This team regardless of who gets picked get beaten up by teams who are in bad poor form.  I ask myself why?  I don't think they want it bad enough yet, and meanwhile as membership passes 40,000 for first time in history, this club will be scoffed at for falling over in winnable games.

Its time within the walls of the MFC for serious discussion on recruiting leaders to our club.  Leaders who can take the fight onfield instead of the trash we are served up year after year.

This group now have extinguished any hope for finals based on these easy losses.  It's simply bad football by this club.  The club promises a lot but cannot deliver.  I'm convinced now of the fact they cannot deliver.

the MCG our once proud home now seems meaningless when turning up to watch the MFC. Bye bye 2017.

Well said Man

my sentiments exactly. This club has not won anything for so long that we are going to have to buy our way out of it, to get the club on track. Lewis was a good start but we need so much more. 

We should have smashed Whorethorn today, they are cooked. 

But no, we handballed in circles and panicked till half time. 

Even a man down and we didn't put the boot in. 

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

23 minutes ago, dpositive said:

3 points people 3 points

Only read 2 pages but fme

I would have enjoyed a win and the 4 points BUT

We are obviously in so much a better place than so many previous years that it aint worth thinking about.

Were off to Adelaide next week and I will try and cheer for you 

 

GO.  DEE

 

A positive poster at last! We have been in a winning position in EVERY game this year. Compare that with the previous seasons, What a gutsy fightback by the boys. In the past we would have rolled over and lost by 90 points.

[Docs Demons 1,786]

We need to settle down a bit here and face the facts. Basically the team is just not up to it at his stage. We are playing with about 16 men as our bottom 6 are very ordinary and need to be turned over until we find better performances and efforts from our bottom 6. Also I'm not sure if any one has potted our number 2 (could not go through whole thread) but he at least gave the Hawks 2 goals early with terrible turnovers. Also when the pressure is on we just handball and eventually turn it over..No leaders stood up early.

On a positive note we played terrible and only lost by 3. In past when 30 odd points down in 2nd qtr we would have lost by 60 plus. 

[Call Me What You Will 751]

Gutted - but massive opportunity over the next three weeks. Boilover vs Crows, Beat Norf at the G then off to the Alice to beat Gold Coast. Maybe not?? Funny game football. We will see. (PS I simply loathe everything about the poo and wees). 

[DeeZee 7,364]

The team has no right to turn up to games not giving full intensity from the start.

Teasing supporters with one great quarter, one break even and two poor, which seems to be our form this year.

They haven't achieved anything yet, really just an ordinary middle of the road side.

you'd think they would be hungrier to actually achieve something special.

[Adzman 2,154]

16 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

Almost every club believes they themselves can make finals.  I don't understand people like yourself who presume we are going to or should win every bloody game.  Its a fucken tough competition.   Do you expect to win the flag this year?  

I said the club is good enough to make finals, not that I believed they would.

I don't frequent these sites to take criticism from salty fellows like yourself.

Nobody expects to win the flag this year, including myself. But at the end of the day you play to win flags, not just to run out there year after year without trying to write history.

[frankie_d 1,471]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Just for the record - with the exception of McEvoy we were taller, especially after Birchall withdrew injured.

Its just that their talls took marks and were more effective.  (Don't know who was playing on O'Brien who took 10 marks (and he has only played 18 games)).  Not enough respect to a newish player. 

 

They had a 5 goal head start at half time.  We left our run too late - another 5 minutes and we would have won.  They aren't that good and it is another game that got away.

Height is deceptive - Watts is tall but, ahem, 'not strong' overhead.

This is just the sort of game where his nice stuff (the tap to Hogan) is not adequate compensation for poor tackling (I know, he tackled Hodge when Hodge was stationary). He's tried his guts out and done plenty so far this year, but in games like today's, all the 6'5" blokes need to take a mark in a pack. Goes up with one hand.

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

We are reliving St Kilda's year last year, There about in the first 6 rounds couldn't quite get the wins they needed then they travelled to west coast... and lost by 100+. We get Adelaide on the rebound... God help us.. Saints came home with a wet sail late in the year but the damage was done for their finals hopes... Now we sit in a very similar position, 3 wins and 4 could've, should've, would've losses. The overall trend is good we are in every game but our finals hopes a dwindling, we now need a couple of big upsets to get back in contention. 

Just a side note to the guys crying like the world is ending, and claiming we were "disgraceful" or "pitiful". 3 years ago a pitiful performance was a 100 point loss... this year we have had 4  pretty "terrible" games against Carlton, Freo, Essendon and now the Hawks and we have gotten 2 wins and 2 losses of 2 and 3 points.... We have come a mighty long way. I'm shattered we aren't quite there yet, but we will claim a big win at some point I'm sure of it, and hopefully if we can just hang onto the main pack we will be able to make a late run at finals with our big ruck man back. This side is poised for success, and is inches away from getting it. just as we were inches away from winning today. A couple of nice bounces and we win today, despite a shocking start. We are not talking massive overhauls anymore, we are talking little tweaks and a bit of consistency. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,008]

1 minute ago, DeeZee said:

The team has no right to turn up to games not giving full intensity from the start.

Teasing supporters with one great quarter, one break even and two poor, which seems to be our form this year.

They haven't achieved anything yet, really just an ordinary middle of the road side.

you'd think they would be hungrier to actually achieve something special.

EXACTLY. 

[rjay 24,898]

Only got the chance to watch bits of the game today so sitting down watching it now.

Observations from the 1st Q

Not sticking tackles

Not hitting up ground balls/disputed balls hard enough, being too cute...

Poor kicking still a major problem.

All in all playing with no real sense of urgency...

[Deespicable 2,726]

Just home. A few observations before I see the replay.

1) It grates to see us lose to the Hawks and also that a so-called hack in No.23 plays his best ever game against us. A few times O'Brien marked because of our zone being breached, but the majority were off forced kicks down the line and he'd come in from the side like Howey used to do. The question that begs is why wasn't his opponent making it harder to block his run? So who was his opponent - mix of T-Mac, O-Mac and Wags I think. Not Frost because he was at full-back on Roughy most of game.

2) Twice we had five defenders flying for the one ball - which means their roles haven't been made clear enough. Jetta always flies rather than stay down and with Wagner now joining in you have to wonder if he has to be told is he third man up to spoil or whether he just lack experience to read the play. Their last goal (maybe second last) came via a courageous effort by him to spoil a marking contest that the Macs had covered. He got winded and the ball spilt to his opponent. Great courage, even greater stupidity.

3) Watts in the ruck. How many more weeks do we have to use him in this role for a fair whack of the game? I can tell you now, he won't have any chance against Jacobs and it is no longer a shock for his opponent. This is the second game in a row where he has been murdered early and only T-Mac was able to get us a fairly even split. I have no problem with a Watts in the ruck cameo as it can get him in the game more and he can exploit going the other way with a loose opponent. But the ploy as a regular back-up is a laughing stock for other sides. Pedo got burnt by McEvoy today, so we have big issues next week - perhaps we may have to bite the bullet and start O-Mac or T-Mac with a view that Pedo can be the trusty back-up. For the second week in a row, Pedo was thrashed in the hitouts early. This time he was still getting beaten up late in the game. he ain't tall enough for Jacobs. problem ahead.

4) Why is Salem not playing down back? I get that a lot of people want his silky (offensive word) skills in the middle but he's not big enough to be a brute against the current players and never recovered today after Oliver spoiled his overhead mark. And let me think - where was he playing when he was best on ground versus Carlton? That's right ... half-back. Play him there please.

5) What happened to the switch back like in the first two weeks. I get that we want to switch but suddenly we aren't buying in as much to switching back the way it came from. If we are playing soccer style (and we are), then trust that something will eventually open up and don't listen to the old blocks in the stand.

6) I don't want to join the JKH bashing, but it's hard for anyone to understand why you remove a player who has finally arrived last year (Kent) and then take out a player who does all the hard things and is quick (Harmes) and go for a really small guy who is not quick and can't tackle. If we are playing basketball, then JKH might be a Patty Mills, but I'm sorry this ain't basketball. I will be looking on the replay to see just how many crumbs JKH got. Jeffy was the same till half time, but at least he read it better in the third.

7) If our philosophy is to run hard and fast on the break then how come we are playing Bugg, Tyson, Vince, Lewis all in the the same side. The obvious answer for three of them is clear - Lewis is smart, Vince is a lethal kick (unless there is only 20 seconds to go) and Tyson is a quality ball user (usually) who keeps presenting. But how can you pick Bugg as well ahead of Stretch or Harmes or Kent. Please note: It is fine to have slow players with big tanks, but there has to be the right balance and today we got exposed on the break by them, almost as much as we exposed them. Bugg should not have played unless one of the above three was out and even then I'd have my doubts.

8) Final thing. In our passion to keep possession have we created a monster. We are overdoing the backwards handball way too much and the biggest culprit is our greatest talent - Oliver. At what point does the coach sit him down and explain that stats mean nothing if you don't take the game forward on occasions. Time for a chat with him Goody. And if he won't kick it, start him up forward - he's classy enough to find the pill anywhere. And even he wouldn't handball backward from 10m out ... or would he?

 

 

 

 

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

1 hour ago, SaberFang said:

I'm just so tired of finishing my weekend completely deflated about another avoidable loss. That one really felt like the dagger through the heart; once again we had our chance, once again we [censored] it up.

Our window of opportunity for finals is fast closing for 2017, so we're ending up with another wasted season when we could've been 7-0, were it not for the stupid brainfades.

 

Don't give up yet. Ross Lyon was quoted as saying the year that the the Dockers made the Grand final they were only had one and a half wins in the first 7 games. We are twice as good as that!

[Moonshadow 17,675]

Now we are beating the teams we lost to last year and losing to those we beat

Go figure

Edited May 7, 2017 by Moonshadow

[John Crow Batty 8,862]

5 minutes ago, Bobby McKenzie said:

Don't give up yet. Ross Lyon was quoted as saying the year that the the Dockers made the Grand final they were only had one and a half wins in the first 7 games. We are twice as good as that!

I checked and it was 5-2.

[Skuit 10,031]

Trust and positioning.

One of our defenders said earlier in the year that Goodie had given them license to be courageous, leave their men, and fly for the spoil. This license needs to be suspended while we go back and learn some tactical basics.

It's okay to be taught to back yourself in and trust your abilities, but you also need to trust that your teammate can effect the spoil so you can be better positioned at the fall.

Likewise. There is nothing inherently wrong with a lot of handballs. Our drive in the third came off the back of attacking hand-balling. But if all of your mids are within two meters of the ball at the same time it is going to come unstuck.

We are a good contested team, and it's built on inside strength, not because we all go for the ball at once. Trust your teammates to win the ball and create some space for them.

There was a passage toward the end, where Hunt was chasing down a Hawk who was running back toward a loose ball on our forward flank boundary. Hunt had him corralled but Salem came off his man to provide extra pressure for the tackle. The ball was released to Salem's opponent and off they went with a free man.

Trust your teammates. It will help you to maintain better positioning in the contests. 

 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, TRIGON said:

Continuously frustrated by our habit of hand-balling to players in limited time and space after we've already created some. Until this stops we will remain second rate easy beats.

I don't think as a team (and coaching crew!!???) we know how to stop doing this or maybe we don't have the ability/personnel to do so at the moment Trigon.

When we have played more direct and kicked substantially more often on the spread this year vs hand ball we have won those matches. The Geelong match the exception, where we had our worst collective accuracy in front of goal I think I've ever seen (other than muddy wet days at Moorabbin etc) and shld have won even though we didn't over use hand ball.

As soon as I saw so many players flip flopping one too many ring around the rosey hand balls in the first quarter I new we had regressed ...yet AGAIN, after seemingly having learned our lesson the week before. Alas we never learn.

One part of this prob is having too many players at the drop of the ball also and not enough faith in the player who is going in at the time to win his contest. Seems to be one or two too many who are drawn to the coal face like a dog sniffing another dog's behind. Over and over again, every other bloody match and we just never seem to learn or rectify. Allows the opponent to sweat on our dumb turnovers and feed off to a loose extra man on the outside

And Clarry is a huge offender here. Far too often he handballs back into congestion or backwards with 2 or 3 foot hand balls when if he ran/balked a little or looked up initially there was someone or an area to hand ball (or even better kick it) to forward of congestion. Half his hand balls (or thereabouts) are good or sublime and the other half sells the team or a team mate back in to trouble.

We are the 'Hand Ball Happy' ball murderers and it may have just helped to kill off any chance we had of playing finals.

[dpositive 1,663]

13 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

Just home. A few observations before I see the replay.

1) It grates to see us lose to the Hawks and also that a so-called hack in No.23 plays his best ever game against us. A few times O'Brien marked because of our zone being breached, but the majority were off forced kicks down the line and he'd come in from the side like Howey used to do. The question that begs is why wasn't his opponent making it harder to block his run? So who was his opponent - mix of T-Mac, O-Mac and Wags I think. Not Frost because he was at full-back on Roughy most of game.

2) Twice we had five defenders flying for the one ball - which means their roles haven't been made clear enough. Jetta always flies rather than stay down and with Wagner now joining in you have to wonder if he has to be told is he third man up to spoil or whether he just lack experience to read the play. Their last goal (maybe second last) came via a courageous effort by him to spoil a marking contest that the Macs had covered. He got winded and the ball spilt to his opponent. Great courage, even greater stupidity.

3) Watts in the ruck. How many more weeks do we have to use him in this role for a fair whack of the game? I can tell you now, he won't have any chance against Jacobs and it is no longer a shock for his opponent. This is the second game in a row where he has been murdered early and only T-Mac was able to get us a fairly even split. I have no problem with a Watts in the ruck cameo as it can get him in the game more and he can exploit going the other way with a loose opponent. But the ploy as a regular back-up is a laughing stock for other sides. Pedo got burnt by McEvoy today, so we have big issues next week - perhaps we may have to bite the bullet and start O-Mac or T-Mac with a view that Pedo can be the trusty back-up. For the second week in a row, Pedo was thrashed in the hitouts early. This time he was still getting beaten up late in the game. he ain't tall enough for Jacobs. problem ahead.

4) Why is Salem not playing down back? I get that a lot of people want his silky (offensive word) skills in the middle but he's not big enough to be a brute against the current players and never recovered today after Oliver spoiled his overhead mark. And let me think - where was he playing when he was best on ground versus Carlton? That's right ... half-back. Play him there please.

5) What happened to the switch back like in the first two weeks. I get that we want to switch but suddenly we aren't buying in as much to switching back the way it came from. If we are playing soccer style (and we are), then trust that something will eventually open up and don't listen to the old blocks in the stand.

6) I don't want to join the JKH bashing, but it's hard for anyone to understand why you remove a player who has finally arrived last year (Kent) and then take out a player who does all the hard things and is quick (Harmes) and go for a really small guy who is not quick and can't tackle. If we are playing basketball, then JKH might be a Patty Mills, but I'm sorry this ain't basketball. I will be looking on the replay to see just how many crumbs JKH got. Jeffy was the same till half time, but at least he read it better in the third.

7) If our philosophy is to run hard and fast on the break then how come we are playing Bugg, Tyson, Vince, Lewis all in the the same side. The obvious answer for three of them is clear - Lewis is smart, Vince is a lethal kick (unless there is only 20 seconds to go) and Tyson is a quality ball user (usually) who keeps presenting. But how can you pick Bugg as well ahead of Stretch or Harmes or Kent. Please note: It is fine to have slow players with big tanks, but there has to be the right balance and today we got exposed on the break by them, almost as much as we exposed them. Bugg should not have played unless one of the above three was out and even then I'd have my doubts.

8) Final thing. In our passion to keep possession have we created a monster. We are overdoing the backwards handball way too much and the biggest culprit is our greatest talent - Oliver. At what point does the coach sit him down and explain that stats mean nothing if you don't take the game forward on occasions. Time for a chat with him Goody. And if he won't kick it, start him up forward - he's classy enough to find the pill anywhere. And even he wouldn't handball backward from 10m out ... or would he?

 

 

 

 

Much good thereBit not all liked and not enough to get upset about

 

See you in Adelaide

[The heart beats true 18,110]

56 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

You're like a 14 year old girl whose parents have stopped her from going to the Justin Bieber concert. 

What? There was a Beiber concert?! Nobody told me!

Could this day get any worse.

[Demonsone 2,036]

3 hours ago, Night Crawler said:

Sick of these bastards. I hate the fact that we need to wait for their good players to retire before we will get the best of them.

When the line ups appeared on the screen before the game started I thought that we would be in trouble.

Fkn Burgoyne and Roughead put on a clinc.

Also sick of game day thread d!ckheads writing us off early. Go [censored] off and support a [censored] bandwagon club like Richmond, you will find like minded souls there.

Bottom line is we lost.....

Team turns up asleep  at the wheel for the 1st 1/2....

Supporters are frustrated to see how well they can play in the 3rd & 4th qtrs only to witness garbage in the 1st half!

Thats 3-4 games which we should have won!

As Goodwin stated good teams find a way to win!

Edited May 7, 2017 by Hogan2014

[SaberFang 7,151]

31 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Now we are beating the teams we lost to last year and losing to those we beat

This season feels like two steps back for every step forward. Losing to all the teams we defeated last year (Geelong excepted) while ratcheting up unconvincing wins against the mediocre teams we lost to. Where's the consistency?

Last year we comfortably defeated Richmond, Fremantle and Hawthorn by a combined 84 points. This year we lost to all 3 by a combined total of 18 points. [censored] infuriating! Three goals is all that's separated us from sitting equal first on the ladder; instead we're staring down the barrel at another wasted season.

Edited May 7, 2017 by SaberFang