POSTGAME: Match SIM vs Richmond

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,797]

1 hour ago, HBDee said:

Watched the whole 7 periods on replay last night. 

Reason for most of Richmond's goals were sloppy turnovers from us, or poor ball handling aka. May fumbling, turning over and them goaling. 

Thought the ball movement when we were scoring goals was pretty good and our depth of forward 50 entries was good. JVR leading up and very nearly clunking quite a few was promising for early in the season.

To everyone saying we have to stop bombing into the forward 50, but they think we're a tall forward or two short down there, we can't have it both ways. The tall forwards want the ball coming in high or so they can get a run and jump at it.

Everyone saying we need to lower our eyes and hit up targets, means forget the tall forwards, just play smaller guys and look for them to lead to space/ball carrier. Which by the sounds of it no one wants that either.

Pressure on in the contest and the ball carrier on the wing for example, means they might have to put the ball on the boot quickly and therefore go long and high into the forward 50. We can't expect the ball to be coming in fast with space all the time, given our high-contest game, and opposition zone defences. Sounds like people want perfect leads and passes every time. Not realistic. 

I actually think the bigger issue is the separation of our tall forwards. To me it seem like they're always flying for the same ball. Easy for defenders for mine. Get separation and try and create a one-on-one and back our guys in. 

As the commentators were saying during the broadcast, we were top 5 for inside forward 50 efficiency (score per entry) during the home and away season last year, and top 5 for scoring in general. That obviously wasn't the case in the two finals we lost, but also, saying our method is completely useless is also not true. Tweak it yes. Say it doesn't work and completely change the way you play. Pretty stupid.

What i took out of the hitout is that we were trying to take it on risky kicks inside which we normally wouldn't do from previous years.

Which is better a more attacking approach as it opens up our scoring opportunities, better than the long up the line near the boundary.

But as you know if you don't hit those kicks you'll get done going the other way. 

It was a typical scratchy not much pressure and we didn't apply our half ground press at all.

 

[Roost it far 6,056]

Chandler has this season to cement a spot or there’s a possibility AMW may jump ahead. Both need improvement. 

[58er 5,608]

1 minute ago, Roost it far said:

Chandler has this season to cement a spot or there’s a possibility AMW may jump ahead. Both need improvement. 

No AMW needs an opportunity. Different circumstances and must be recognised. AMW hasn’t had 3 years in the system and 15/20 games yet.  I have a feeling he will get that opp sometime prior to the bye unless Kade starts kicking goals and gets busy. Kade may no ok for depth in any case. 

[DeeSpencer 23,129]

12 minutes ago, binman said:

Based on yesterday's game i think Brown is a red hot chance of being in the team in round one and playing that small forward and/or high half forward pressure role.

I’ve flirted with teams without him but I still think Chandler will play based on no Pickett and no McAdam. We need a small who can mark and contest in the air.

The big change should be ANB and Spargo back on the half forward flanks. If either of those 2 miss then Brown is a chance potentially even ahead of one of Laurie/Billings who seem to me to be fighting for one spot. It’s hard to justify 2 attacking forward/mid types who aren’t at the level of pressure/run we’ve become accustomed to.

The big thing we need to adapt is fast run from the backline isn’t a signal for 3 or 4 forwards to get deep, the plan should be for hit up leads at half forward to punish interceptors and yesterday it looked like JVR, Fritsch, Chandler, Schache all wanted to be inside 50. Too many leading back in to the same spot and a bunch of kicks just lobbing to intercept markers. Nibbler and Spargo change that balance, but still a big concern that without Petty there’s no tall or medium who’s a natural hit up player.

[jnrmac 18,954]

6 hours ago, marieisademon said:

The sky is falling chicken Little 

Nice trolling

[Demongirl35 815]

One thing that really annoyed me with yesterdays game was Steven may marking in defence and kicking it to Jake Bowey (who probably had a good 10 metres if not more of a tigers player) and kicked it high and over his head which bowey couldn’t mark it resulting in a boundary throw in (if I recall)

 

May proceeded to lose his [censored] at bowey… which if I was Jake I’d be [censored] that I’m getting yelled at by another player who couldn’t kick low and to met whilst standing on my own. I know it’s little but may really annoys me with his attitude some times 

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,880]

2 hours ago, HBDee said:

Watched the whole 7 periods on replay last night. 

Reason for most of Richmond's goals were sloppy turnovers from us, or poor ball handling aka. May fumbling, turning over and them goaling. 

Thought the ball movement when we were scoring goals was pretty good and our depth of forward 50 entries was good. JVR leading up and very nearly clunking quite a few was promising for early in the season.

To everyone saying we have to stop bombing into the forward 50, but they think we're a tall forward or two short down there, we can't have it both ways. The tall forwards want the ball coming in high or so they can get a run and jump at it.

Everyone saying we need to lower our eyes and hit up targets, means forget the tall forwards, just play smaller guys and look for them to lead to space/ball carrier. Which by the sounds of it no one wants that either.

Pressure on in the contest and the ball carrier on the wing for example, means they might have to put the ball on the boot quickly and therefore go long and high into the forward 50. We can't expect the ball to be coming in fast with space all the time, given our high-contest game, and opposition zone defences. Sounds like people want perfect leads and passes every time. Not realistic. 

I actually think the bigger issue is the separation of our tall forwards. To me it seem like they're always flying for the same ball. Easy for defenders for mine. Get separation and try and create a one-on-one and back our guys in. 

As the commentators were saying during the broadcast, we were top 5 for inside forward 50 efficiency (score per entry) during the home and away season last year, and top 5 for scoring in general. That obviously wasn't the case in the two finals we lost, but also, saying our method is completely useless is also not true. Tweak it yes. Say it doesn't work and completely change the way you play. Pretty stupid.

Not all the time surely. Talls can also lead and take the ball out in front from a well executed kick.

We need separation from our talls and for our smalls to time their run better.

[drdrake 3,037]

3 hours ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

Even our elite kickers were off today. Rivers & McVee were missing targets.

Billings was probably the most reliable with ball in hand.

Rivers isn't an elite kick, over distance he is good but that 25 to 35m kick he misses it to much.

To Jack Viney's credit, I thought yesterday was the best he has kicked the footy.

Windsor hit the hard kicks, just missed some easy ones but you walk away happy with what you saw for his first hit out.  The speed would take time to adjust, you hit a kick based on what level you last played at and it is a turn over at this level. 

Edited February 19 by drdrake

[DeeZone 7,715]

16 hours ago, binman said:

Some take aways:

I suspect they are in a heavy training phase. Cooked after the first 20 min untill half time.

First 15 mins of third up and about after a break. Then cooked again 

Being cooked exacerbated our biggest issue  - our kicking skills accross the board.

Outside of the first 20 mins of the game, even our best kicks turned it over, and our average kicks, of which there are many, were horrendous 

Very much the classic practice match. 

One example was the focus on practising hand ball chains to move the ball downfield

In the last couple of years our practice match has been our main preseason hitout, not the community cup.  I suspect not this year - Max won't be coming off at half time against the blues.

Verell looked ok.

Koz is a star.

Viney was terrific.

JVR will go up one or two levels.

Good to see them give schachw a run in the ruck. Makes perfect sense, and i think is the only way he cements a starting 22 position. Assuming he can improve. 

I know clarry was playing against VFL players, but somehow it made his brilliance even more evident.  Sounds stupid, but I think I had forgotten just how good he is.

Not bothered at all by the result.

Thanks Binman, Sparrow mentioned that they had been playing fatigued football and I was disappointed how we fell away after that 25 minute mark and despite fighting our way back into the game we certainly lacked zipp. So I agree with your thoughts, unfortunately we left after the 4th stanza and missed seeing Clayton and the other boys play.

[binman 38,035]

30 minutes ago, Demongirl35 said:

One thing that really annoyed me with yesterdays game was Steven may marking in defence and kicking it to Jake Bowey (who probably had a good 10 metres if not more of a tigers player) and kicked it high and over his head which bowey couldn’t mark it resulting in a boundary throw in (if I recall)

 

May proceeded to lose his [censored] at bowey… which if I was Jake I’d be [censored] that I’m getting yelled at by another player who couldn’t kick low and to met whilst standing on my own. I know it’s little but may really annoys me with his attitude some times 

May's got form with rubbish like that.

Did on another occasion yesterday- I think aimed at tomo. 

On his kicking, I wish they made it a team rule that he can only kick it 60 metres plus.

He misses a ridiculous number of 15 to 40 metre kicks under no pressure. Like that kick to Bowser. 

[demon3165 1,918]

18 hours ago, Demonsone said:

Troy Chaplin said they were focusing on other parts of the game not on the 

Not worried about the result in the dancing with your sister game , but more about ANB, Sparrow and Rivers decision making in tight contests it was not good.

The one thing I still cannot understand why our forwards always start behind their opponents makes it hard to mark the pill in packs.

Now I know it was just a little hit out but when the tigers were on a 10 goal unanswered goals the midfield set up was always the same, thought there was a chance to change it but other factors might be the reason why it was allowed. 

[DeeZee 6,732]

Kynan Brown is like another Bowey ( who was everywhere by the way),but in the forward half , he just has that zip and mongrel in him, really competitive young man.

I think we will enjoy the silkiness of Windsor for many years to come , just looks the goods.

TMac will take Thommos spot .

We just need a fit Petty in that forward line along with McAdam and we will be fine.

Plenty of options in the midfield now with Trac, Oliver, Sparrow, Kozzie, Salem and Billing’s 

Viney is an absolute machine  and is my early pick for B&F

Special mention to Rivers who looks like going up another level again.

[DeeSpencer 23,129]

26 minutes ago, drdrake said:

Rivers isn't an elite kick, over distance he is good but that 25 to 35m kick he misses it to much.

To Jack Viney's credit, I thought yesterday was the best he has kicked the footy.

Windsor hit the hard kicks, just missed some easy ones but you walk away happy with what you saw for his first hit out.  The speed would take time to adjust, you hit a kick based on what level you last played at and it is a turn over at this level. 

The 2 Windsor kicks that hit targets were lucky shanks that wobbled on to chests, otherwise he missed pretty much every target on the run and some in slow play too.

His role in the side is to take it on at pace and gain metres, plus he’s adapting to the pace of afl footy. In his career to date he’s almost always been able to gain a gap and then steady, he won’t have that luxury at afl level. 

He’ll adapt to the pace and hopefully get more cohesion with his team mates but everything I’ve seen at training has been a lot of missed kicks. Yet reports from Casey days has him lacing it out? 

A really good result for Windsor would be something like a less prolific version of Langdon’s 2020 season where his run was obvious but his radar and cohesion lacking. Or a bit of a Jayden Hunt season where there’s brilliance mixed in with some errors.

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,797]

Was very impressed by Kynan Brown, Caleb Windsor, Billo, Kozzie could be anything and Jack with his neat disposal by foot through the middle.

Lots to work on and spots up for grabs especially in the forward half.

 

[hemingway 7,589]

10 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

Not worried about the result in the dancing with your sister game , but more about ANB, Sparrow and Rivers decision making in tight contests it was not good.

The one thing I still cannot understand why our forwards always start behind their opponents makes it hard to mark the pill in packs.

Now I know it was just a little hit out but when the tigers were on a 10 goal unanswered goals the midfield set up was always the same, thought there was a chance to change it but other factors might be the reason why it was allowed. 

It was only a practice match with lots of reasons for the way the game was played and the result. 

However, there was nothing to allay the concerns from 2023. 

The 10 unanswered goals is a real concern given our inability to lock opponents down and stop the run. 
Like 2023 there was an inconsistency in application and effort. We play in patches. We see no obvious solutions up forward or with forward connection. In general play, the good is very good but the bad is way too common. 

How long do we experiment with tactics and game plans? We don’t want to spend the first half of the season experimenting. . We need a better level of effort and consistency. We need stability in team selection and positioning. Our injury list and potential injury to key players does not help. Also  I can’t see Gawn, Petracca, Viney, May etc playing week in and week out. If they do, they will be stuffed come finals time. Do we have a group of players that have the hunger and confidence to play a dominant brand of footy that marks us as a top side? 

Do we have a group of players that have slipped or are not that good?  Do we have a coach that has run out of ideas?  Do we have a coach whose message to players has worn thin?

We need to have early wins to instil confidence and belief. Winning papers over the cracks. Losing will result in media speculation, internal rumblings, pressure on the coach and players.

One thing is for sure. We cannot afford more injuries or players on the long term injury list. 

Hopefully my early disappointment is an aberration. 

[jayceebee31 666]

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

The only choice we made was a 2 year deal for Chandler and 1 year for Bedford at the end of 2021. At that stage Chandler was more advanced and had rival interest from the Crows pushing the extra year. 

All reports were we matched Bedford’s 3 year deal offer from GWS and were very keen for him to stay. He was never put on the trade block in preference for Chandler.

As the record is right now..wrong choice .

[leave it to deever 15,344]

Yes indeed,  young Brown was the highlight of the day for me. On that form he's definitely a walk up start for the Swan's game. He could literally find room inside a Hyundai Getz . He is going to be a gun.

And of course seeing Viney at his red hot best so early on was just as exciting.

 

Edited February 19 by leave it to deever

[Roger Mellie 3,501]

4 hours ago, JTR said:

That's him yep (#35). Looked just like Tapscott, only shorter!

Looking at the line-up, I think #33 was most probably Cooper Macdonald.  Like the look of him.

I think I heard the ordinary commentators say No. 33 was Kobe Shipp.

[deelusions from afar 1,608]

Haven't been able to watch the match yet and so came on here to see what I've missed.

Obviously it would be nice to win everything all the time, but if they're experimenting  with paying more aggressive etc (which is costing us goals) then now is the time to do it.  Both teams had lots missing so I think we all get sucked into reading too much into preseason form.

I do remember getting smashed in the 2021 preseason by the Bulldogs and thinking they were miles ahead of us with so much depth and talent especially in the midfield.  We all know how important that preseason match was when it really mattered later that year!

[loges 6,027]

6 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

This belief for the la

6 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

This belief for the last three years that Bbb and Tmac will suffice is based on sheer hope and not past reality.

We are still lacking tall fwfs and God help us if Petty goes down again.

st three years that Bbb and Tmac will suffice is based on sheer hope and not past reality.

We are still lacking tall fwfs and God help us if Petty goes down again.

He's got to get up first.

[58er 5,608]

38 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

I think I heard the ordinary commentators say No. 33 was Kobe Shipp.

Yes that’s right. He was good but when he was signed I think Kobe was also given a very promising introduction and confident post of welcome. 

[stinga 474]

23 hours ago, picket fence said:

As a dedicated Track watcher at Casey, this is my spin on today

PRO'S 

Viney was HUGE!

Windsor consolidated his training form and WILL debut round 0

Max was very good

Bowser among the Best

Brown dog also might debut round zero

Kossy Awesome

Billings very good

Clarry and Salem were a class above in magoos game

Verrall did not disappiont

CON'S

Well why is it that inspite of faultless drills and match sims at Casey do we turn up and TURN OVER the ball time and Time and Time again. We have achieved nothing in this regard.

WHY DO WE KEEP BOMBING THE BALL INTO THE FORWARD 50 which has been a HUGE problem for the last 2 years. What the hell is going on Goody?

Petracca's high ball drop and exagerated arc STILL Continues to cost us gimme goals.

May turns it over and was fumbly today,Fritsch looked totally disinterested, Ditto Langdon who I would drop,Bailey Laurie does a few good things then some shockers. Tomlinson did little to inspire and we might be forced to look elsewhere. Rivers also is a turnover merchant! Did Chandler play??I think even with Clarry, Salem, Spargy Pants and Gus we looked MILES of today with some lazy and skill laden errors. Swans will slaughter us on that effort today! 

With Turner injured, Thomlinson, Hore, Adams and Howes not showing much, and Tmac just avarage.   Would it be possible for Verrall to take the tall defender spot and then do a turn in the ruck.

[BLWNBA 348]

10 minutes ago, hemingway said:

It was only a practice match with lots of reasons for the way the game was played and the result. 

However, there was nothing to allay the concerns from 2023. 

The 10 unanswered goals is a real concern given our inability to lock opponents down and stop the run. 
Like 2023 there was an inconsistency in application and effort. We play in patches. We see no obvious solutions up forward or with forward connection. In general play, the good is very good but the bad is way too common. 

It's a fair summation, for sure. 

For mine the concern wasn't necessarily the fact we lost, but how we lost. Given most of the issues seen yesterday (i.e., the massive run on and unanswered goals) have been around for the past two seasons, I'm not sure it's as simple as saying we'll turn things around next week against Carlton. 

[58er 5,608]

1 hour ago, leave it to deever said:

Yes indeed,  young Brown was the highlight of the day for me. On that form he's definitely a walk up start for the Swan's game. He could literally find room inside a Hyundai Getz . He is going to be a gun.

And of course seeing Viney at his red hot best so early on was just as exciting.

 

What you see from Kynan is absolutely what you get. He is a heart and soul player like Jack and has far more ability than the average rookie when he signs up. 

What I like is Kynans absolute unconditional attack on the ball and his general clean hands with it plus his trusty left foot kick with such intent and planting skill in disposal.

He didn’t look flustered or under pressure just calm and cool and he runs in a straight line at pace greater than we think.

After our delight with Caleb starting to get his game into real shape this is such a bonus that I think Kynan may get small patches on the ball or in the centre. There are no limitations but perhaps building up is a priority so he can be an on baller of the future. Maybe he will debut in the 23 and he would also be a handful as a Sub. Well done Kynan you are going great guns. Looking forward to your continued development. 

[Neil Crompton 4,730]

@binman: "Some take aways:

I suspect they are in a heavy training phase. Cooked after the first 20 min untill half time.

First 15 mins of third up and about after a break. Then cooked again"

haha have you started to raise "loading" again already Binny? We haven't even reached Round Zero yet!