deelusions from afar

Watching GWS / Pies / Lions etc I too wish we played with a bit more dare. However, I think your comment here is a bit of a stretch and unfair to say they're bored of Goodwin. Firstly because this is all hearsay coming from Tom Morris. Secondly because the comments were about the assistant coaches moreso than Goody.

Some really good comments in this thread - at least we've mostly got past people assuming what ex-players are known for as players is all they can coach. I've got no idea if Stafford can coach - but those potting him because he was a ruckman is completely unfair imo. I think our forwardline is very difficult to coach - partly because we are a defensively minded team and partly because that area of the ground we have had less talent / stars than the other parts of the ground. The forward line can function a lot better with the key personnel on the park and better ball movement from the team as a whole. So - I would love to see someone come in that can help with our ball movement - ideally without it costing us too much on turnover - but that's a balance we're going to need to find. Do we have the kicking skills that the pies and GWS have in their midfields to do it? Probably not - but if our prime movers are not predominantly kicking from congestion then maybe our skills are better than what it seems (I suspect this is the case). Would love to get someone like Don Pyke for this - as he has a proven record with Adelaide and Sydney at turning this around. But if he's going to be the WCE CEO then we'll have to look elsewhere. In terms of freshening up the coaching team, would be good to get someone experienced - Pyke / McQualter / Dew etc and potentially someone who's recently out of the game - this should freshen things up for the players. Think of Geelong post 2021 - replacing all the assistants and looking like they were over the hill.. a flag the next year! I've loved the insights from Phil Davis on Whatley in recent weeks but suspect he's going down more the administration side of things.

C'mon the pies pay unders because they're a big club, always have. If we were trying to get McStay we would have to pay more (and it's harder for us compared to pies / tiges / blues etc to entice the big fish in the first place). Maybe McStay isn't the best example - but that's not the point. Who are the "options out there" that you mention? I used McStay because he was "the best" key forward that moved last year and is hardly A grade. I agree that JVR is still a way off - but if he has Petty there, ideally a resting ruck/forward from time to time then it's less of an issue and allows him to develop quicker. Against the pies, it was him and TMac (who looks done) and Fritsch was coming back from injury. He looked great when Petty was in the same forward line. Not saying in an ideal world we wouldn't get another ready made key forward. Just saying to get one that is better than what we have will cost (a lot) and may reduce our ability to address what i think are greater needs - backup ruck or ruck/forward and some pace and class in the middle. So who are the options?

That's a fair enough response. I guess my follow up question then is who are the "options out there"? My hunch is that it is very hard to look good as a Melbourne forward - a lot of that is about the way we play in terms of priding ourselves on contest and defence. Assuming they are injury free, I think Petty / JVR can do the job (particularly in a forward line that also has Smith, Fritsch and McAdam). In an ideal world we would have more but the reality is that every side has strengths and weaknesses on their list. Do we really want to sell the farm (which is what it could take) to get a better than average forward (this year's McStay) when we have more pressing needs? By this I mean a backup ruck or ruck/forward, coverage for May and speed/class in the middle / half back.

Agree with this. In my view they don't have to be a great disposer of the ball but they need to be able to compete in the air. Our game plan (as per most teams) revolves around kicking long to our ruckman when there isn't another option. I'm not sure whether I have faith in a guy like Schache to who has the skills but not the size or presence.

Collingwood have McStay and Mihocek who are hardly world beaters Port have Dixon and .... Lord ?? (who's played less games than JVR) Brisbane have two big key targets but this is the first year they've really got it together. Of course I'd love Charlie Curnow, Jeremy Cameron etc but we're not going to be able to bring someone like that in.

I posted elsewhere - I feel like many on here are buying into the media's argument that we don't have a key forward. The reality is we've got Petty, JVR with Jefferson developing. Then we have 2-3 agile medium forwards in Smith, Fritsch and likely McAdam / Melkshem. It's not the problem it's made out to be - we were unlucky to have our two talls out for carlton and fritsch still on his way back from injury. What we are missing is the 200cm resting ruckman. We tried with Grundy but he's an extra midfielder that rucks rather than a player that is comfortable taking contested marks. Do we really want to have JVR taking the ruck when Gawn is off in 2024? What about when he gets injured? Can Gawn continue to play 80+ game time going forward and be fresh in September? I've said it before but we should be going after the best forward / ruck going around. He doesn't have to kick a bag each week - but if he kicks his one or two most weeks and rucks when Gawn needs a rest then that is what we need. I'd be going after Tom Fullerton but I'm sure there's other options. Seperate from that I'd be going after good ball users in the middle

I feel like many on here are buying into the media's argument that we don't have a key forward. The reality is we've got Petty, JVR with Jefferson developing. Then we have 2-3 agile medium forwards in Smith, Fritsch and likely McAdam / Melkshem. It's not the problem it's made out to be - we were unlucky to have our two talls out for carlton and fritsch still on his way back from injury. What we are missing is the 200cm resting ruckman. We tried with Grundy but he's an extra midfielder that rucks rather than a player that is comfortable taking contested marks. Do we really want to have JVR taking the ruck when Gawn is off in 2024? What about when he gets injured? Can Gawn continue to play 80+ game time going forward and be fresh in September? I've said it before but we should be going after the best forward / ruck going around. He doesn't have to kick a bag each week - but if he kicks his one or two most weeks and rucks when Gawn needs a rest then that is what we need. I'd be going after Tom Fullerton but I'm sure there's other options. Seperate from that I'd be going after good ball users in the middle

I reckon if we're in touch at quarter time / half time then we will run them off their feet.

My interpretation: Tommo in to play on TDK / allow Lever to not take a big target / rest Hibbo Jordon in to cover Brayshaw midfield minutes / allow Trac to spend more time forward Spargo in for inside 50 delivery and manic pressure - with that many small forwards (Spargo / Kozzie / Chandler /ANB) if you're not running your [censored] off the whole time you get replaced by the one resting on the bench! My fear is that I think our forward pressure should be great with a smaller / aggressive forward line which means we get the front half turn over game that we apparently crave. The problem is that if we get the turnovers in the forward half, we kick it back inside 50 before it has emptied out (we know how that goes). It's far better to get the turnovers up the ground to have a more open 50.

Can we throw all our picks at the dogs and ask for Naughton? They've got too many tall key position players there anyway - they should be playing Naughton or Darcy back in my view. I can't believe there isn't more heat on Beveridge with the amount of talent he has had at his disposal since winning the flag for very little to show for it - surely there's unrest there? Naughton can't have enjoyed his foot this year with the way the dogs played. (Having said that, coming to play in Melbourne's forward line is hardly an attractive proposition!)

I'm a no for Schache (I want to see him do well but he just doesn't seem a competitor) but you've argued that pretty well. Goody and the match committee are very much process driven people. Each player plays a role and if someone is injured or suspended then the next person in line comes in. If Schache is not to play in this circumstance then why re-sign him. If the delivery is good, he is actually capable. Could his job be to nullify Weitering? (Btw I'd still lean to Grundy))

Just to be sure (to be sure)... If you respond "Negative" to Daniel Turner not there.... that actually means he IS there? 🤔

Agree... although at the same time he's not performing at his best so it's fair to question whether he holds his spot. A fit Salem is an absolute weapon! Having said that, from the quotes it doesn't sound like there's any indication that he is at risk of being dropped so obviously the coaches are happy with his output.

From the official trade whisperer himself!

They're normally great podcasts with a great selection of stars who give more than usual in the longform style interviews... the main downside for me is that it's Mark Howie Howard doing the interviewing!

It's interesting because even though I felt we were a bit small - we didn't get beaten in the air in their forward line often - I thought it was more the pace that got us? Having said that I'm sure we will go taller this weekend.

I think a good strategy is to go after players that show promise but are behind in the pecking order at their current club so unable to get a run at it. A good example of this is Bedford who although he got a decent go last year, you get the feeling he wasn't trusted by the coaches (which to be fair I thought his disposal was too hit and miss) - but what a year he has had! Hopefully McAdam might be another! If we're looking for a forward / ruck, why not go for Fullarton? At brisbane he's behind Daniher and Hipwood and Big O is in the ruck. He's 200cm, 24 years old and shown he has talent.

I know he's off the boil this year - but a few years ago Gresham was one of the best in the comp. Has he been carrying an injury? Does the game style not suit? Why isn't he a possible option to fix our broken forward line - he used to be classy? (from someone who's barely watched the saints this year)

Makes sense. However, I wonder whether we're more likely to be on the ropes in the first quarter as we were against Carlton in the first quarter a few weeks ago. It is possible they are better at the contested stuff right at the start. But they seem to be a team that doesn't have the fitness (or maybe their game style is so exhausting) that they run out of dash / legs in the second half. As much as I'd love to come out breathing fire, it wouldn't surprise me if we have a bit of a rope-a-dope strategy to without their early power.

But isn't the idea that Carlton will have a resting ruck most of the time so that is the matchup. May will get Curnow. Who else gets the resting ruck? Lever? Hibberd? Smith?

My Collingwood work colleague reckons Howe will play forward on Lever. If that's the case May plays on one of Miocek, Cox and McStay. Who plays on the others? I would have thought Hibbo goes to Elliot - but we seem like we could be stretched for height down there!

I'm surprised by this as well. Given the pies have Miocek, McStay, Cox and Elliot - not sure how the matchups work. Having said that, I think Hibberd has been excellent for most of the year and his desperation and ability to play on talls and smalls is welcomed! My fear with the pies forwards is probably more the ability of the smaller ones when the ball hits the ground (Hill, Elliot, Ginnivan, McCrery etc) - so a smaller lineup is suited to covering that. I wonder if this is related to the weather forecast?

I thought he was too small but I guess there's plenty of successful small midfielders around - he's already taller than Lachie Neale and Brent Harvey.

Isn't there a rule that you can't stack a whole lot of picks to use on academy bids - i.e. you have to have that many list spots available or something?