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On 9/16/2023 at 9:30 AM, Demons11 said:

There is no way people can question the teams effort.  They are a brutal footy team and we just need a key forward.   A fit Petty will slot in down back again next year and if we can wrench a ready made power forward from somewhere to stand with JVR we will back bigger than better.   

Wrong wrong wrong 

A fit Petty Will HEAD UP a rejuvenated forward line and DISCO will be Added to the backline. It's a sad affair he has not  been given this season like McVee to adjust and he would be ready made now for 2024. He still has to go through some teething but I can see him over that quickly early in 2024.

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1 hour ago, Monbon said:

I agree with your first four paragraphs. When you then go on to question Goodwin spoils it for me. The bottom line is that under him, Melbourne has played in finals in 2018, 2021-2023. You nailed why we failed this year but in the end, a coach - as Hinkley pointed out yesterday - has to deal with the injury hand he is dealt. I've read in these pages that West Coast had 3 All Australians out during their Grand Final win in 2018. Yep, maybe so, but they were obviously able to cover them with what was in their tank. We lost our main forwards for parts - the crucial parts- throughout the year, and just about every week was another period of adjustment. In other words, the crucial aspect - continuity- was not on the agenda when the Injury Gods consistently made decisions to send us back to square one. It's no excuse, as they say, bad kicking is bad footy, but had we the luxury of having the same luck with injury our backline had up forward....

Yeah not sure Hinkley provides a strong supporting case for any argument. The bloke has been at Port for what 11 years (?) for zero grand final appearances? Probably lost more finals than he's won? I'd say there's more than injury excuses going on there. 

I’m by no means a Goodwin hater. Extremely grateful for the 2021 flag but I’m firmly on the side of the fence of this list being a Golden Generation for the MFC. Like Carlton in the mid 90’s and Essendon of the early 2000’s, if it only produces the one flag I’ll be slightly disappointed. I think a fair few other supporters will be, too. 

Goody isn’t Clarkson or Hardwick or Matthews. He isn’t beyond questioning. I still find myself doubting his team selection a little too often, his in-game slowness to react a bit too frequently to be absolutely certain he’s got the Midas touch that those aforementioned coaches had/have. Only the very best coaches win 2+ premierships. 

That all said, I hope he does go on to achieve greatness for the Dees. He’s earned the right to give it a red hot crack for the next three seasons. Unless things go absolutely pear shaped I’ll be supporting him but I still reserve the right to question. No need to be sheep-like and clap everything he does.

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9 minutes ago, 58er said:

Wrong wrong wrong 

A fit Petty Will HEAD UP a rejuvenated forward line and DISCO will be Added to the backline. It's a sad affair he has not  been given this season like McVee to adjust and he would be ready made now for 2024. He still has to go through some teething but I can see him over that quickly early in 2024.

Well Petty looked ok in the 3 or 4 games he played forward ,I'll give you that.

He's been great down back with Salo ,Pig , Jake,Maysie and Riv

I don't understand why they weren't chasing Ratogalea..they could have given Grundy to  Port and got a big bodied swing man from Geelong

Somehow?

Win win 

Edited by IRW
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31 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You're not giving a coach an extra 2 year extension then 5 minutes later decide that he's all of a sudden under pressure.

If they had their doubts then they simply wouldn't have re-signed him mate.

https://apple.news/AKJNr2OAQSRKdNrsURQt1OA

2x Straight Sets from Top 4

You bet he is under pressure 

Edited by Sir Why You Little
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4 minutes ago, IRW said:

Well Petty looked ok in the 3 or 4 games he played forward ,I'll give you that.

He's been great down back with Salo ,Pig , Jake,Maysie and Riv

Ask yourself what part of our game needs Petty the most? Forward of course.

Who replaces Petty down back Disco  of course. And possibly Adams for Maysie.after 2024/5 when some cameos have been given so he develops.

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1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

I have said numerous times our game plan is a) very taxing, b) keeps oppositions in the game and c) very predictable.

Our fwd half issues are at least 5 years old and we have an old ruckman as our fwd coach. Really?

The game plan to beat Melbourne us well known but most teams are unable to compete for longer. Its patently obvious that good teams can compete for long enough as the do in finals. We do about 90% right  but the 10% sees us lose.

We made some changes around the edges this year but its time to completely re-design how we play. 

I reckon if you want a complete re-design, you'll be disappointed.

Our game plan has been the most successful in the comp over the last 4 years. We haven't had a consistent rival in that time (Brisbane the closest with a significant home ground advantage).

This year we lost only one game by more than 10 points. And all stat indicators (leading to xScore) pointed to us winning the majority of those games (including 3/4 finals that we lost. The other final against Sydney was a <3 point loss on xScore).

In 2022 we had significant injury and fitness issue that saw us fall into a hole at the end of the season, cooked. Some injuries can't be helped but we also had a new fitness lead. We made major changes to our conditioning and injury management programs in 2023 for significant improvement.

In 2023 we have again battled some key inuries (everyone has them but ours were often particularly key players like Gawn and Oliver). The injuries were almost entirely concentrated on tall and medium forwards. That part of our structure never settled, yet we still probably should've won both finals.

We'll make further, incremental changes to the game plan, recruit some players and try to solve the forward issue with the players available to us.

But wholesale changes aren't on the cards.

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On 9/16/2023 at 10:51 AM, Bozo said:

Oliver is a great player but superfluous to our needs and is the obvious collateral required to re stock and re energise our playing list. We might get 2 to 3 excellent players for him filling our needs in crucial positions. We must become ruthless.

Oh boy. Now I’ve heard everything.

But yeah, you’re entitled to your opinion, even if it is the biggest crock of [censored] I’ve ever read on Demonland. 😁

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15 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

Could we get some pix of the banner from last week pretty please?

Sure. When they become available, that is. Understandably the DA members who usually post the banner pics aren’t in a screaming hurry to do so this week. Everything is so much more difficult after what ends up being the last match of the season, (unless it’s a win in a grand final). Posting banner pics is one of many such postgame tasks. 

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2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

https://apple.news/AKJNr2OAQSRKdNrsURQt1OA

2x Straight Sets from Top 4

You bet he is under pressure 

Brutally accurate play-by-play analysis of how Melbourne basically "[censored] the bed" with less than 2 minutes to go.

On the MCG with a crowd of 96,000+ watching there is nowhere to hide. The Demons got stage fright and "choked" big time.

Lots of "learnings" to be had over the upcoming Pre-Season!

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2 hours ago, 58er said:

Ask yourself what part of our game needs Petty the most? Forward of course.

Who replaces Petty down back Disco  of course. And possibly Adams for Maysie.after 2024/5 when some cameos have been given so he develops.

Surely they are still hoping for at least one more piwer marking forward  given they have two that arnt anywhere near best 22 any more.

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9 hours ago, Willmoy1947 said:

One other thing. This year we all, other than blind people, know that the Club has a problem with Umpires except one, Razor.  I have always believed the way to face this, and for that matter other situations, is head on, please excuse the pun, so i would offer a suggestion that the Club do some homework over summer to relay our position in confidence to the Umpires, who, i think, should, would, have to meet us with our filmed incidents and get this bloody nuisance of a thing sorted.  Everything on the table, including preconceived opinions and player and umpire attitudes alike. etc etc.

100% this needs addressing.

We're getting pumped every time in the big/close games.

All the big controversial decisions, including the arc review in Rnd 22.  If the goal ump is unsure you don't call a soft call behind.  It's always a goal if it goes through the sticks without touching the post using the arc sound thingy.... then you must prove it was touched.  Not try and prove that he didn't touch it.  Faaark me.  Anyone can stick their hand up and say "i touched it'.  We're going on that!!???  Players lie lol.  The AFL are completely faaarked.

Even in 21 vs the Crows no deliberate when it was obvious to the whole nation cost us that match.

Tracc gets pinged for a toe poke in a contested situation.  Ok fair enough.  The Blues do a more obvious one on the other side.... nup that's different apparently.... BECAUSE!!?????

The free to the blues player in the back pocket in the 4th who was clearly caught holding the ball or incorrect disposal but instead goes therir way for high contact that was not there ...plus a 50 on top.   Get stuffed!  What"s going on??

The Demon hierarchy needs to stand up and step up here behind closed doors and thump some tables.

The umpires will just give the same old 'mistakes happen' line.  Needs to go to the top not via the umps.  NO. 22 in particular should never umpire at AFL level again.

Ask the question..... what the FAAArk is going on!!???

Edited by Demon Dynasty
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6 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

Brutally accurate play-by-play analysis of how Melbourne basically "[censored] the bed" with less than 2 minutes to go.

On the MCG with a crowd of 96,000+ watching there is nowhere to hide. The Demons got stage fright and "choked" big time.

Lots of "learnings" to be had over the upcoming Pre-Season!

Are you saying we don't have a 2 or 3 minute to go (ahead or behind) 'play book' that's signalled to the playing group by a big sign off the bench like most other clubs appear to?

Park the bus with 3 to 4 players deep in the 50 and another 2 on the arc (at least!).

And as to why Rick didn't head for the boundary.  Not placing this solely on him.  Goals should've been kicked.  Especially Kozzy's from 30 out directly in front.  While i'm on that is there any chance ssomeone could pls get hold of Kozzy's set shot kicking action and fix it.  The one he has at the moment .... 35 meters max....really!!??  That's it?

This is a whole of club review issue but ultimately the blame lies with the coach for that complete shambles at the end.

We have multiple years of finals experience but still can't get the basics right in the close games nor structure up to protect a lead with minutes to go!!??

You don't just excuse that and look forward sorry.  Alot of big footy clubs around the world would sack a coach on these performances (especially the same outcome two consecutive years).

How the hell did we not use Shacky in the ruck at all in the 2nd half and left a completely shot T-Mac (obvious to thousands of supporters yet apparently not in the box with so many highly paid experts) still on the park! !!?

Tracc running around rucking inside 50 when he should be attempting to recieve/crumb for a snap goal (that potentially wins us the match!!).

The entire footy dept needs an overhaul.

There are two senior coaches, three if you count Choco (Flag coach) on the bench and we're still making glaring errors that may have potentially cost us at least one Prelim, and maybe a shot at another title.

You don't just "look forward" from that Simon.  Sorry mate.  Complete and utter cow padding.

And if the hierarchy don't get that we at least need a full review, especially the forward line coach (Stafford) and lack of mid-field cohesion (been losing far too many CB clearance battles) on top (Yze), then we are about to blow what would appear to be a genuine window for a second cup with this generation of players.

Who knows, we might have already missed the boat through general complacency.

I'd also be asking the list management question... how the hell did we let all the speed go (Baker, Hunt & Bedford) and why didn't we replace any of it?

The recruiting in the off season.... bottom line....

Speed Speed Speed on the outside and / or built into a mid fielder

Players that can kick the pill both in general play and at the sticks (more than 40 meters!), no more mid field ball hackers or anyone that can't kick fairly accurately from 45 or so from basic set shots on reasonable angles.

Botton line ... VG to excellent skills by foot with decent decision making/composure under pressure.   If those aspects aren't there don't even bother.

A genuine KPF that can take solid comtesteds, crash packs, out muscle opponents occasionally to win a fair share of 50/50s and kick straight from 45/50 out.  They don't grow on trees but we'll be badly exposed next season IF Petry can't stay on the park.

Roohey still young and a work in progress and can't manage alone if Petty breaks down again.

I love what T-Mac & BB brought to our club and forever grateful for the 2021 flag but both would now appear to be done and dusted.

Edited by Demon Dynasty
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1 hour ago, Demon Dynasty said:

100% this needs addressing.

We're getting pumped every time in the big/close games.

All the big controversial decisions, including the arc review in Rnd 22.  If the goal ump is unsure you don't call a soft call behind.  It's always a goal if it goes through the sticks without touching the post using the arc sound thingy.... then you must prove it was touched.  Not try and prove that he didn't touch it.  Faaark me.  Anyone can stick their hand up and say "i touched it'.  We're going on that!!???  Players lie lol.  The AFL are completely faaarked.

Even in 21 vs the Crows no deliberate when it was obvious to the whole nation cost us that match.

Tracc gets pinged for a toe poke in a contested situation.  Ok fair enough.  The Blues do a more obvious one on the other side.... nup that's different apparently.... BECAUSE!!?????

The free to the blues player in the back pocket in the 4th who was clearly caught holding the ball or incorrect disposal but instead goes therir way for high contact that was not there ...plus a 50 on top.   Get stuffed!  What"s going on??

The Demon hierarchy needs to stand up and step up here behind closed doors and thump some tables.

The umpires will just give the same old 'mistakes happen' line.  Needs to go to the top not via the umps.  NO. 22 in particular should never umpire at AFL level again.

Ask the question..... what the FAAArk is going on!!???

The AFL use the grey areas to get the desired outcomes. It's why the game is so hard to umpire.

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21 hours ago, gs77 said:

On that, wouldn't the AFL be relishing the boon a QLD or NSW team's success would have for the growth of the game up there? Particularly a maiden GWS flag? 

Personally I'd love nothing more than seeing the Pies and blues fall short next weekend.

Yes, the AFL would love to see two northern state teams battling it out. All they care about is money and attention and that would bring both to markets that they need exposure in.

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21 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

The AFL use the grey areas to get the desired outcomes. It's why the game is so hard to umpire.

We can use Razor's very own descriptions / explanations (via SEN Whately segments) to come at them though Clint.

The deliberate non-call for the Blues (with no over rule by the other three umps) is not a mistake.

That's a free every time except this time.  There's no grey there.  Razor has said on multiple occasions if a player kicks the ball towards the boundary (a straight kick along the line or from skinny to fat side is fine) and it goes out it's considered insufficient intent and should be callled deliberate.

Even if the player kicks somewhat along the line but goes from fat side to skinny (angle wise) and it bounces out.... it's deliberate (according to Razor).

Both versions were both massively obvious deliberates on Friday night but only one was given.

This has now happened to us on  multiple occasions.

We are going to accept that the rule is only different for us and that four umpires all got it wrong?

If you do then they'll think it's ok to  keep sticking it to us as 'oh well it's a grey area and hard to officiate'.  We are the loser if we don't speak up.

The club has to make a stand.  We are on the receiving end of far too many supposed 'controversial' decisions.

While we're on the subject, i didn't and probably won't watch the replay but was Nibbler's shot at goal genuinly touched?  The vision on the big screen at the match seemed inconclusive.

Edited by Demon Dynasty
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On 9/16/2023 at 3:14 PM, roy11 said:

Went for a 3 hour walk this morning to try relax after last night.

We've been unlucky this year with injuries, especially weighted towards the forward line.

I know Clarry was injured but we covered that pretty well i reckon.

But despite our injuries, we've consistently been our own worst enemy with accuracy - and that's the frustrating part with a lot of our losses this year.

2023 was a golden opportunity, it feels more thrown away than 2022.

 

 

Agree yes we were right in it but we killed our easier op last week and nailed the second again through our 1% ers cruelling us. All basically our decision making snd lack of composure. Not sure it is teachable to everyone but let's try.

Selection and use if Sub this week a horror show. Ruck in forward line Sgete was Tmac at the bounces etc?

Just remember other teams have failed in the top4 and won the following year/s. Job is now to sift through the "wreckage " and solve the problem ASAP . 

List needs addressing in some areas and succession plans for 30 plus snd older should be paramount. 

Injuries we're the elephant in the room and depth not good enough to cover our forwards. 

2024 is crucial for the next flag Hopes as decisions on the playing list will see some top ups waiting in the wings ( literally maybe) May be from Casey Forwards from trade and draft plus outside runners the draft again. And a deck chair shift in coaches with one at least perhaps over board after the front of the vessel has had its secondtrip mostly wasted snd tending towards underground in paradise.

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34 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

While we're on the subject, i didn't and probably won't watch the replay but was Nibbler's shot at goal genuinly touched?  The vision on the big screen at the match seemed inconclusive.

On TV to me it didn't look touched. I didn't see a any finger deflection as the ball passed by the hand. The shadow of the ball quickly passing over the hand may have given the impression it was touched, but I didn't see evidence of physical contact. 

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10 hours ago, Superunknown said:

This was the year we left one on the table for sure 

Same quote as end of 2022 

2022 and 2023 - two years where we had huge premiership chances and somehow lost it by our own failings 

Edited by spirit of norm smith
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8 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Same quote as end of 2022 

2022 and 2023 - two years where we had huge premiership chances and somehow lost it by our own failings 

I think if we are being honest, we were never going to win it last year. But that was definitely our premiership to lose this year. But unfortunately we threw (kicked) it away. I never mind being beaten by better sides on the day, but we have been the better side in both finals. That is what hurts. 

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