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22 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Our defence, our midfield, our structures - even our forward line I think we have a good mix but not much depth in key position stocks. TMac and Brown got us a flag but it was their last crack, they are now finished.

We have a very very good head coach who has won a flag and got us top 4 after H&A 3 years running. He has developed a great rapport with the players which has seen all our key players sign long term despite significant interest elsewhere. He has developed a gameplan which is sound and stacks up with the best teams.

Where we fail is in our execution, we could do with a couple of elite ball users, one in the midfield, one at half forward. We need a back up ruck considering Grundy is gone.

I would shuffle our assistants, Stafford should go, Yze will go, we could use a ball movement coach ala Caracella. I think Goodwin could do with some freshing up in the coaches box, some new ideas to challenge/reinvigorate him.

Off-field we are kicking goals, Pert has done a great job, Roffey has been very good. 70k members, a potential home base at Caulfield.

We have a lot going right and fell short by a kick in two finals. Yes we can and should review and address our deficiencies but we have a lot going right, it is hard to finish top 4, harder still to win a flag. Had Petty stayed for we may have achieved that.

A bit there..  ill reply later. Cheers 

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For me, we kind of went out in straight sets the previous Thursday in that loss to the Pies. Pretty much all the marbles were on the line in that game and we came up just short. Geez we had some bad luck going in with those injuries to Melk and Petty, then Brayshaw getting KO'd in first quarter. Losing Gus was a lot more critical to that loss than we care to admit.

Carlton will get pumped at the Gabba this weekend and in all likelihood so would've we. Our forward line was never going to be good enough to win three tough finals after losing week one. We were pushing excrement up hill from the moment the final siren blew in that Qualifying Final.

I'm actually proud of the boys for the way they battled across the two games. Yes, we torched a truckload of entries and our forward craft was comical at times, but we all knew this was going to be our Achilles Heel heading into the season. ‘Gawndy’ was worth a punt but TMac and BBB? C'mon, let's get real. They were both cooked 12+ months ago. Not at all sure Chandler is up to it either. He was dreadful in both finals and generally poor after about round 8. We need upgrades on all of those guys.

Plenty of scope for optimism, though. We finally get to use the Luke Jackson picks to help address the issues in attack, as well as add some high-quality kids at the pointy end of the draft. That's a luxurious position to be in for a side that finished in the top four. To my reckoning we're still well in the hunt for another flag over the next two or three seasons but it is contingent on absolutely nailing this upcoming draft/trade period. A combination of experienced role players and youngsters who can have an immediate impact is definitely the way to go, rather than pile all eggs in the Harley Reid basket. That's not where we're at as a club. Leave that to North and the Eagles to squabble over.

The only question popping up time and again in my mind though is ... is Simon Goodwin good enough to become a dual or even triple premiership coach? He kind of rode the coattails of Roosy’s groundwork to win the 2021 cup but now it's on him to come through with a second one entirely in his own right. Going to be a lot tougher and he's going to have to be a lot smarter and cleverer with the methods and strategies he deploys in-game (and at selection) in order to achieve it. Like everyone, I hope he's the man but there's been enough questionable decision making in the box over 2022/23 to suggest there are a few doubts there. It's up to Goody now to prove the knockers wrong. "Double straight sets exits" is some sticky mud to wipe off.

 

 

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39 minutes ago, BaliDemon said:

For me, we kind of went out in straight sets the previous Thursday in that loss to the Pies. Pretty much all the marbles were on the line in that game and we came up just short. Geez we had some bad luck going in with those injuries to Melk and Petty, then Brayshaw getting KO'd in first quarter. Losing Gus was a lot more critical to that loss than we care to admit.

Carlton are going to get pumped at the Gabba this weekend and in all likelihood so would've we. Our forward line was never going to be good enough to win three tough finals after losing in the first week. We were pushing excrement up hill from the moment the final siren blew in that Qualifying Final.

I'm actually proud of the boys for the way they battled across the two games. Yes, we torched a truckload of entries and our forward craft was comical at times, but we all knew this was going to be our Achilles Heel heading into the season. TMac and BBB? C'mon, let's get real. They were both cooked 12+ months ago. Not at all sure Chandler is up to it either. He was dreadful in both finals and generally poor after about round 8. We need upgrades on all of those guys.

All's not lost, though. We finally get to use the Luke Jackson picks to help address the issues in attack, as well as add some high-quality kids at the pointy end of the draft. That's a luxurious position to be in for a side that finished in the top four at the end of the home and away. To my reckoning we're still well in the hunt for another flag over the next two or three seasons but it is contingent on absolutely nailing this upcoming draft/trade period. A combination of experienced role players and kids who can have an immediate impact is definitely the way to go, rather than pile all eggs in the Harley Reid basket. That's not where we're at as a club.

The only question popping up time and again in my mind though is ... is Simon Goodwin good enough to become a dual or even triple premiership coach? He kind of rode the coattails of Paul Roos groundwork to win the 2021 cup but now it's on him to come through with a second one entirely in his own right. It's going to be a lot tougher and he's going to have to be a lot smarter and cleverer with the methods and strategies he deploys in-game (and at selection) in order to achieve it. Like everyone I hope he's the man, but there's been enough poor decision making in the box over 2022/23 to suggest there are a few doubts there. It's up to him now to prove the knockers wrong. "Double straight sets exits" is some hard mud to wipe off.

 

 

I think we all knew deep down we were stuffed after going down to filth by a bees dick. (JWR out Gus out  etc)   As along as Carlton gets thrashed by Brisbane and Brisbane beat filth (or GWS beat filth) all is ok   Already looking forward to next March with new draftees etc      Want one more cup with this list

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14 minutes ago, gregdemon said:

I am still amazed GRUNDY was not sub and used in last quarter       Something more to it   like a major falling out with coaches or something   

From what I heard about the scratch match last week, Grundy was disinterested.  If he had checked out then there is no way they could play him 

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2 hours ago, Demonsterative said:

Yeah, we don’t need to go all Elon Musk here. Given your inside mail, the club will be forced to make some changes. That in itself could have big impact. 

Yes. Let’s hope so

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On 9/16/2023 at 8:11 AM, pitmaster said:

Wasted season? Let's be realistic and acknowledge that many clubs spend consecutive years at or near the top and in fact need to do so to win the title. That's what we are doing.

Face it: we went into this finals series up against it missing key forwards and in both games (from the five minute mark of the Woods game) our in form midfielder. We lost both by a combined eight points. So we are a contender.

I don't think it was wasted since (a) we put a year into JvR, (b) we learned last night that Smith, who played his best game, has a future as a marking target, (c) we saw Sparrow go to another level and Spargo was strong (again after appearing lost), and (d) we found McVee who was found out a little in the finals but will only improve.

TMac will (should) retire. We played two men short (TMac Brayshaw) in the Woods game and one man short last night with TMac in the side. But we can build a forward line out of Petty, JvR, Smith and a fit Fritter who I reckon was seriously underdone for the finals.

The backs were mighty these last few weeks and show no sign of slowing up.

We lost due to some panic, some lack of composure up forward, poor skills (Max it's time you could be relied on in front of goal FCS), missing personnel, rotten luck and, in the final quarter last night some of the worst umpiring ever seen. Was it an AFL conspiracy to get the favoured Blue boys up? Sure looked like it although I'll reserve final judgement until I can face the replay. But for all that we have continued to lay groundwork

And on the bright side we have a strong draft hand, ridiculously so for a team that finished as high as we did. Emphasis: players who can kick with precision.

This is a top summary. I will add one more thing , and that is a discussion as to who our Captain and Vice is going forward before we leave it too late.

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One other thing. This year we all, other than blind people, know that the Club has a problem with Umpires except one, Razor.  I have always believed the way to face this, and for that matter other situations, is head on, please excuse the pun, so i would offer a suggestion that the Club do some homework over summer to relay our position in confidence to the Umpires, who, i think, should, would, have to meet us with our filmed incidents and get this bloody nuisance of a thing sorted.  Everything on the table, including preconceived opinions and player and umpire attitudes alike. etc etc.

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I have said numerous times our game plan is a) very taxing, b) keeps oppositions in the game and c) very predictable.

Our fwd half issues are at least 5 years old and we have an old ruckman as our fwd coach. Really?

The game plan to beat Melbourne us well known but most teams are unable to compete for longer. Its patently obvious that good teams can compete for long enough as the do in finals. We do about 90% right  but the 10% sees us lose.

We made some changes around the edges this year but its time to completely re-design how we play. 

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1 hour ago, BaliDemon said:

For me, we kind of went out in straight sets the previous Thursday in that loss to the Pies. Pretty much all the marbles were on the line in that game and we came up just short. Geez we had some bad luck going in with those injuries to Melk and Petty, then Brayshaw getting KO'd in first quarter. Losing Gus was a lot more critical to that loss than we care to admit.

Carlton will get pumped at the Gabba this weekend and in all likelihood so would've we. Our forward line was never going to be good enough to win three tough finals after losing week one. We were pushing excrement up hill from the moment the final siren blew in that Qualifying Final.

I'm actually proud of the boys for the way they battled across the two games. Yes, we torched a truckload of entries and our forward craft was comical at times, but we all knew this was going to be our Achilles Heel heading into the season. ‘Gawndy’ was worth a punt but TMac and BBB? C'mon, let's get real. They were both cooked 12+ months ago. Not at all sure Chandler is up to it either. He was dreadful in both finals and generally poor after about round 8. We need upgrades on all of those guys.

Plenty of scope for optimism, though. We finally get to use the Luke Jackson picks to help address the issues in attack, as well as add some high-quality kids at the pointy end of the draft. That's a luxurious position to be in for a side that finished in the top four. To my reckoning we're still well in the hunt for another flag over the next two or three seasons but it is contingent on absolutely nailing this upcoming draft/trade period. A combination of experienced role players and youngsters who can have an immediate impact is definitely the way to go, rather than pile all eggs in the Harley Reid basket. That's not where we're at as a club. Leave that to North and the Eagles to squabble over.

The only question popping up time and again in my mind though is ... is Simon Goodwin good enough to become a dual or even triple premiership coach? He kind of rode the coattails of Roosy’s groundwork to win the 2021 cup but now it's on him to come through with a second one entirely in his own right. Going to be a lot tougher and he's going to have to be a lot smarter and cleverer with the methods and strategies he deploys in-game (and at selection) in order to achieve it. Like everyone, I hope he's the man but there's been enough questionable decision making in the box over 2022/23 to suggest there are a few doubts there. It's up to Goody now to prove the knockers wrong. "Double straight sets exits" is some sticky mud to wipe off.

 

 

I agree with your first four paragraphs. When you then go on to question Goodwin spoils it for me. The bottom line is that under him, Melbourne has played in finals in 2018, 2021-2023. You nailed why we failed this year but in the end, a coach - as Hinkley pointed out yesterday - has to deal with the injury hand he is dealt. I've read in these pages that West Coast had 3 All Australians out during their Grand Final win in 2018. Yep, maybe so, but they were obviously able to cover them with what was in their tank. We lost our main forwards for parts - the crucial parts- throughout the year, and just about every week was another period of adjustment. In other words, the crucial aspect - continuity- was not on the agenda when the Injury Gods consistently made decisions to send us back to square one. It's no excuse, as they say, bad kicking is bad footy, but had we the luxury of having the same luck with injury our backline had up forward....

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45 minutes ago, Willmoy1947 said:

This is a top summary. I will add one more thing , and that is a discussion as to who our Captain and Vice is going forward before we leave it too late.

On the reasons snd discussion and the current situation of the Club in the Hun today our No 8 and chief interceptor does himself no harm in this next leader discussion. 

I am not saying a change of Capt or Vice  is necessary or even a major topic in our Club for next year but a Deputy Vice Captain could be added.

our Leadership Group is not publicly trotted out so this could be in a similar vein. 

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On 9/16/2023 at 8:56 AM, Sir Why You Little said:

But they don’t learn. The same system every week 

Goodwin should walk after 2 Straight Set Exits…

Sweet Jesus, you’ve posted some tripe over the years but this is right up there

On a positive note you can wallow in self pity again over the off season 

I implore you to read your posts over season 2019 and 2020 and then read your post again

But then again the rest of us just love accepting mediocrity 

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6 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Sweet Jesus, you’ve posted some tripe over the years but this is right up there

On a positive note you can wallow in self pity again over the off season 

I implore you to read your posts over season 2019 and 2020 and then read your post again

But then again the rest of us just love accepting mediocrity 

What are you waffling on about? Hey?

We have just been booted out of 2 Finals Series on our Home Turf without a win. 
The Coach is under pressure I assure you….

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59 minutes ago, Willmoy1947 said:

One other thing. This year we all, other than blind people, know that the Club has a problem with Umpires except one, Razor.  I have always believed the way to face this, and for that matter other situations, is head on, please excuse the pun, so i would offer a suggestion that the Club do some homework over summer to relay our position in confidence to the Umpires, who, i think, should, would, have to meet us with our filmed incidents and get this bloody nuisance of a thing sorted.  Everything on the table, including preconceived opinions and player and umpire attitudes alike. etc etc.

100% this on umpires

and ARC v blues

and maynard

we can do this behind the scenes like the good corporate citizen we are 

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On 9/16/2023 at 3:25 PM, Ollie fan said:

The Lever short option was to Rivers and at the game I was screaming at him to take it. (Surprisingly he ignored me😂).

All the talk about sack the coach: the players adore him - that's why we have so many champions on long term contracts. A new coach might not get the same response.

Some don’t get that and most of them wanted him sacked in 2020 and after the GWS loss/Hawthorn draw in 2021.

FCS we have one usual suspect who wants an EPL style sacking system across the AFL, that would include Hardwick , Bomber Thompson getting the boot and the Cats and Tigers resetting to miss out on dynasty’s

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56 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I have said numerous times our game plan is a) very taxing, b) keeps oppositions in the game and c) very predictable.

Our fwd half issues are at least 5 years old and we have an old ruckman as our fwd coach. Really?

The game plan to beat Melbourne us well known but most teams are unable to compete for longer. Its patently obvious that good teams can compete for long enough as the do in finals. We do about 90% right  but the 10% sees us lose.

We made some changes around the edges this year but its time to completely re-design how we play. 

I don't think that's going to happen. Yes "if" is the dirtiest word since potential, but seriously had we kicked just a little straighter (one or two of the many shots including a number of posters go through) we are either looking forward to hosting the Giants after a week off or having a free swing at the Lions.

After Petty and Melksham went down I thought our only chance was beating the Pies as the Lions seem unstoppable and dominated us for large periods during both games this year. They did the same to the Pies. Our only chance was to avoid playing them until the GF and hope they choke on the G.

We have a lot going for us, as disappointed/angry/frustrated as we all (including coach and players) are we're not gonna blow the team up and start again. We have a very strong team, a strong draft hand and will make some forced changes to the coaching staff. We will tinker but I can't see us making wholesale changes to personnel or gameplan/structure.

After the disappointment of the last fortnight I'm already looking forward to 2024 with a forward line of Petty/JVR/Fritsch/Kozzie/McAdam and adding some talent through the draft (hopefully with a focus on elite ball users).

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9 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Exactly.  So many in the box getting paid the big $$ and none of them could see it from half time onwards.

Shacky had to come on for T-Mac and take the ruck while Maxy rested up forward (or on the bench resting)

Visa versa when Maxy rucked.

I didnt write much in the game day thread but certainly mentioned this at half time.

We even trialled Kozzy at FF for a large chunk of the third.  Not sure about the fourth as i was behind the goals Punt Rd end

5 mins to go I would of put schache at ff or even in the ruck for his run and stand max one out at ff and bomb it in to him 

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18 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

What are you waffling on about? Hey?

We have just been booted out of 2 Finals Series on our Home Turf without a win. 
The Coach is under pressure I assure you….

You're not giving a coach an extra 2 year extension then 5 minutes later decide that he's all of a sudden under pressure.

If they had their doubts then they simply wouldn't have re-signed him mate.

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10 hours ago, BDA said:

I don't know. We just seem to tighten up. There's a weight there. I can feel it, the crowd can feel it. There's a mental block or burden there which needs to be overcome. Thats my sense anyway. could be wrong of course.

Tend to agree we are not playing real natural aggressive and instinctive football. We tend to do one hand ball too many often and our decision making from between half back and centre is awful deplorable and so far from free thinking it is holding us up as a group and as a Club.

I feel it's the balance between defence and attack ( posted in another post ) now ingrained as a DON'T LOSE PHILOSOPHY rather than GO FOR A WIN that is holding back most playersHood teams play instinctive footy snd cope with errors.

We are burdened with poor goal kicking accuracy ( much mental ie Trac etc.) and confusing foot passing and leading and marking issues. It's the system and uncertainty which reveals itself so easily on the ground.

Is it any surprise that as the game gets closer in the fourth quarter we inevitably feel this pressure and lose our composure. It's happened over 2/3 years now and not one player has stood up above this inward pressure to really make a statement NO LOnGER is this going to go on. 

We need a different balance snd in many ways despite the fantastic  relationship Goody has built with the players is it too comfortable and no feedback results. Then  there Is still a stubborn side to Goody I believe despite his modifications this year.

Otherwise our forward worries would have been addressed far more successfully than up to now which is about as bad as it has been.

New Assistants with new ideas is needed badly snd more tinkering with the defenders and attackers balance is necessary. It might have already been a cancer which is ingrained too far for some. 

So plenty I trading drafting and list decisions is crucial for our next 3:4 years in the flag window. We are not far away from it ie some say a finger nail. I say yes to that but we need some good old brain tinkering to open up our responses and  instincts to then free ourselves of our fear of failure on our endeavours on the field.

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I think we will look back on this year as the one flag we should have won - a bit like 1990 when there was no clear standout and we were arguably a better side than the Pies and got knocked out after having to wait an extra week because the Pies drew with the Eagles - back then the draw meant a replay.

But there were certainly some major positives.

1) Rivers, who had an ordinary finals series, stepped up to become a genuinely good player who now needs a spot in the midfield. My season highlight was his two accurate inboard passes in our freakish come from behind win over the Lions.

2) Sparrow showed he is now physically capable of matching it with anyone and is a wonderful tagger in the Harmes 2018 mould.

3) Smith showed he can play at AFL level ... and can play pretty much anywhere. With McAdam coming in, he is the obvious replacement for Rivers down back because of his versatility.

4) JVR got plenty of experience, as did young McVee. And for those trying to blame him for that final goal, remember this - Tom Stewart was badly beaten by Dustin Martin in a crucial late play on the wing in 2017 QF. The Tigers went on to win that game and the flag, but Stewart has ended up a pretty damn good player. 

5) Our trade value as a club has gone up. Jayden Hunt was fourth in the B&F at Eagles, Toby Bedford could end up playing in a GF, Oskar Baker got games at the Bulldogs (unlike at Melbourne) and Sam Weideman showed in his three VFL games at Essendon as a backman that he could be a regular after all. Not to mention his five-goal AFL game against the Cats.

6) And after picking the smallest forward side in the history of AFL finals, we showed that such a strange selection could still end up producing scoring shots and was one way to force players to look at the short option. So our loss to the Blues may end up shaping our game style for 2024 and could also force Goody to drop his attack up the wings mentality.

Sadly we say goodbye to Hibberd and it sounds like Grundy, Harmes, JJ and Tommo will join them. And in my opinion, the rise of Moniz-Wakefield and McAdam's signing means that at least one or possibly two of our small forwards has to go to get gametime - and yes I know they are all contracted. But so is Grundy.

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