Still confused about Grundy not playing against Carlton.

Did Goody get it wrong?

As this thread is titled, "Cool Light of Day", I thought it time to reflect on Goodwin's winning record since taking over amidst this episode of Knives Out!

Home & Away = 60%

Finals = 50%

15 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Who cares what Goody says in his pressers, or how he says it. He’s not obliged to tell anyone anything, our supporters included. It’s what’s said behind closed doors that matters, and we aren’t privy to that. On that subject though, I’ve been told by a reliable source that Goody unleashed a scathing verbal attack on the whole team straight after Friday’s match. He didn’t hold back, it was brutal, he ripped right through them, even singling players out, Kozzie being one such player. And it seems the players were told there’d be no Mad Monday for them, and that Goody is gonna get them “out on the track harder and earlier” this off-season. 

I'll be interested to see if he winds this back a little. Something along the lines of "I went too far", "I was hurting too", "we're all in this together", "I'll do better". It's a stick then carrot approach, if this doesn't happen then he runs a very real risk of losing some of them.

9 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

As this thread is titled, "Cool Light of Day", I thought it time to reflect on Goodwin's winning record since taking over amidst this episode of Knives Out!

Home & Away = 60%

Finals = 50%

That’s a disgrace - he’s at least 20% worse in finals. Clearly can’t coach when it counts.. Roos gifted him this team and it’s generational and he is so boring and rigid and plays favourites  😍 

Edited September 19, 20231 yr by Engorged Onion

15 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Who cares what Goody says in his pressers, or how he says it. He’s not obliged to tell anyone anything, our supporters included. It’s what’s said behind closed doors that matters, and we aren’t privy to that. On that subject though, I’ve been told by a reliable source that Goody unleashed a scathing verbal attack on the whole team straight after Friday’s match. He didn’t hold back, it was brutal, he ripped right through them, even singling players out, Kozzie being one such player. And it seems the players were told there’d be no Mad Monday for them, and that Goody is gonna get them “out on the track harder and earlier” this off-season. 

Interesting to see how the players respond to this. I dont think this is goodys usual way. Glad to hear Kozzi got nailed a bit...such an undiscplined game. Either they will return motivated and wanting to atone or they will all feel a bit deflated and dispirited. We've got good leaders in there but geez the feeling right now is very flat isn't it. 

3 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

Interesting to see how the players respond to this. I dont think this is goodys usual way. Glad to hear Kozzi got nailed a bit...such an undiscplined game. Either they will return motivated and wanting to atone or they will all feel a bit deflated and dispirited. We've got good leaders in there but geez the feeling right now is very flat isn't it. 

I deliberately neglected to say that he started his tirade against Kozzie by calling him a f****n !d!ot. Clearly he was overcome by emotion because by all accounts he’s not usually one to yell at them in anger let alone name-calling. I didn’t mention that part because I’m a huge fan of Goody and I was sad to hear that he’d caved in to his anger and had uncharacteristically insulted the boys. 

23 minutes ago, dworship said:

I'll be interested to see if he winds this back a little. Something along the lines of "I went too far", "I was hurting too", "we're all in this together", "I'll do better". It's a stick then carrot approach, if this doesn't happen then he runs a very real risk of losing some of them.

Goody like everyone else is only human. I’m sure he wouldn’t be comfortable having torn strips off the players immediately after the match. I hope the players know this and it doesn’t change the fact that they all love him so much, which they do. 

They absolutely deserved to have strips torn of them. We lost to a vastly inferior side by being undisciplined, burning team mates (Viney burning Petracca at the death summed it up) not going when it was our turn. ANB the only player who turned it up a dial when it mattered. I’m not convinced this group has that edge that drives you beyond your best. I hope we recruit that this year because we need some quality youth. 
Howes, Woewodin, Turner, AMW need to rip this preseason a new one. 

4 hours ago, beelzebub said:

You know what... maybe own it.  Maybe some humble mea culpa.

He's the bloody head coach...   

Maybe " we stuffed up... we need to do much better ... "

Maybe ...  "an opportunity lost etc"

He needs to understand its on HIM

HE guides the ship...   onto the rocks again...and again.

21 is history.  He's letting things slip.

He totally ballsed up the Grundy fiasco and even when the opportunity to do something a bit maverick presented.. he squibbed. 

He's an employee...he's accountable... to US !! 

So if he was to “own it” and he was to say things such as what you’ve suggested, you’d be satisfied? As his “employer” hearing him trot out the “humble mea culpa” would suffice? 

11 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I deliberately neglected to say that he started his tirade against Kozzie by calling him a f****n !d!ot. Clearly he was overcome by emotion because by all accounts he’s not usually one to yell at them in anger let alone name-calling. I didn’t mention that part because I’m a huge fan of Goody and I was sad to hear that he’d caved in to his anger and had uncharacteristically insulted the boys. 

I guess it'll show what they are made of.  Sheedy did something similar after the 1983 GF and the Bombers won the next two.  That was after three years of finals failure.  It was also 40 years ago.  Times change but I think there is still a place for a good rocket.  At the end of the day though, if the players aren't already feeling bad enough about a missed opportunity, and their individual and collective parts in that failure, then they aren't the right players anyway.  I expect most will respond in the right way.  Appreciate your insight WCW.  Thanks for sharing.

I've seen the recent "analysis" that says we need to "improve our ball use" - that really mean reworking our contest and territory game style.  Simon Goodwin is not going to change his fundamental philosophy so that really means replacing the coach.  Apparently Max, Clarrie and Jack are among the "worst kicks in the AFL", are we confident that the new coach and game style are going to fix this or do we need to trade them too for "better ball users"?  How many seasons is it going to take to find this out?  I'm not in favour of either of these major changes.

I don't think we need to "improve our ball use" because it has the above implications, what we need to do, as I have posted elsewhere, is improve our forward personnel so that they can convert the chances we generate.  That's a much simpler and less disruptive change and we are in a very good position to make it given the players already on our list who didn't play finals, our strong draft hand and free salary cap to come (I'll make a separate post on this).

We were missing a considerable number of our best converters at the end of this year: Petty, Melksham and Van Rooyen (in the SF); and unfortunately two of our best converters are now over the AFL hill: Ben Brown and Tom McDonald.  That's the problem.  Petty, Van Rooyen and TMac are our best 3 in goal scoring accuracy according to WheeloRatings. 

We've recognised this by targeting Shane McAdam who has a very good Accuracy Rating too, he's fourth behind the 3 above when you combine both Melbourne and Adelaide's lists - yes all four ahead of Tex! 

We've got an excellent draft hand.  I know the Draft mantra is "best available" and I wholeheartedly agree that is the best strategy when you're building a list, but I don't think it applies when you've already built the list like we have.  IMHO we now need to target "needs" to fill the holes - we did that with Kossie and we need to do it again this year.  We need to draft the best forward converter we can get (and the best key defender to fill the Petty/May retirement hole).

We can throw out the baby and the bath with the bathwater or we can get some cleaner bathwater and some bubbles.  I know which one I prefer.

Edited September 19, 20231 yr by old55

3 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Sorry.. further to this he DEFINITELY answerable to US. 

The club effectively runs like any stakeholdered company.

You have the investors. i.e Member. We invest not just money but so much more. We are literally invested as club fans/members.

Like a company it has its board and management.  All are tasked , all are accountable to.....its shareholders. 

The MFC is accountable to US. Thats how it works. They F up...theyre out. 

All well and good in theory.

In the cold light of day we are the sixth best team in the competition this year.

I’m of the opinion that we are a top 4 side, with a top 4 list. We’ve underperformed for 2 seasons now. A preliminary final had to be a pass mark. To not make it there is a failure.

We turned up in records numbers as members and supporters. I think it’s logical to feel really disappointed by the club. Obviously we all love them, but they let us down this year in my opinion.

16 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Who cares what Goody says in his pressers, or how he says it. He’s not obliged to tell anyone anything, our supporters included. It’s what’s said behind closed doors that matters, and we aren’t privy to that. On that subject though, I’ve been told by a reliable source that Goody unleashed a scathing verbal attack on the whole team straight after Friday’s match. He didn’t hold back, it was brutal, he ripped right through them, even singling players out, Kozzie being one such player. And it seems the players were told there’d be no Mad Monday for them, and that Goody is gonna get them “out on the track harder and earlier” this off-season. 

Not sure how I feel about this. It's very intriguing to hear that he broke out of his usual demeanour but I'm wondering if this was the right approach. I usually associate sprays with lack of effort and for the most part at least I thought our players brought effort. I also think that Goody has to take some responsibility in this one, he's the one who sets the game style, he's the one who the buck stops with at selection, he's the one who decided not to use Schache. 

You can sink the boot in to the players as much as you want but when you have the ball in your forward line, have 3 stoppages in 30 seconds and see one of your best stoppage mid/forwards taking ruck duties in a game decided by 2 points then there will be question marks over coaching. 

54 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

So if he was to “own it” and he was to say things such as what you’ve suggested, you’d be satisfied? As his “employer” hearing him trot out the “humble mea culpa” would suffice? 

Well... it's  a start.

Possibly a poor analogy   but someone with addiction first has to admit it, own it and then can move forward and upward from that base.

All im hearing is blah blah blah bla blahhhhh.

At least in "trotting" it out he's verbalising to a public audience.  That would be a catalyst for change.

Haven't heard him say... "Im the Coach of Melbourne and its my responsibility to oversee the change needed so we dont repeat these unsatisfactory and disappointing results , squandering our talent and opportunity "

I dont hear him say ANYTHING  near it.

Goody definitely made some mistakes, non-selection of Grundy would be number 1 for me. 

Grundy should have been in for Mc Donald and a runner or Hibberd in as sub. 

It feels like they put a line through him once he was meeting with other clubs. I hope not because professionals should be able ot see past that and trust that the focus remains on getting the job done while still present. 

8 minutes ago, Dee*ceiving said:

Goody definitely made some mistakes, non-selection of Grundy would be number 1 for me. 

Grundy should have been in for Mc Donald and a runner or Hibberd in as sub. 

It feels like they put a line through him once he was meeting with other clubs. I hope not because professionals should be able ot see past that and trust that the focus remains on getting the job done while still present. 

They put a line through him because Gawn/Grundy did not work all year and because Grundy ain’t a forward. Why is that so hard for people to understand? He got dropped from the side during the h/a for a reason. 
 

Not selecting Brodie Grundy during the finals was not a reason we lost. 

7 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Well... it's  a start.

Possibly a poor analogy   but someone with addiction first has to admit it, own it and then can move forward and upward from that base.

All im hearing is blah blah blah bla blahhhhh.

At least in "trotting" it out he's verbalising to a public audience.  That would be a catalyst for change.

Haven't heard him say... "Im the Coach of Melbourne and its my responsibility to oversee the change needed so we dont repeat these unsatisfactory and disappointing results , squandering our talent and opportunity "

I dont hear him say ANYTHING  near it.

How do you know he hasn’t owned it? Ignore what’s said and what’s not said in the token pressers. They’re not worth [censored]. For example, Round one this season, Voss was positively lambasted for saying he was happy to walk away with a draw vs Richmond. One of the rare times a coach has expressed his true feelings in a presser and he was shot down. It’s no wonder they stick to a script. 

1 minute ago, BaliDemon said:

They put a line through him because Gawn/Grundy did not work all year and because Grundy ain’t a forward. Why is that so hard for people to understand? He got dropped from the side during the h/a for a reason. 
 

Not selecting Brodie Grundy during the finals was not a reason we lost. 

Selecting TMac was a worse option. He was completely unprepared and underdone

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I deliberately neglected to say that he started his tirade against Kozzie by calling him a f****n !d!ot. Clearly he was overcome by emotion because by all accounts he’s not usually one to yell at them in anger let alone name-calling. I didn’t mention that part because I’m a huge fan of Goody and I was sad to hear that he’d caved in to his anger and had uncharacteristically insulted the boys. 

 

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Goody like everyone else is only human. I’m sure he wouldn’t be comfortable having torn strips off the players immediately after the match. I hope the players know this and it doesn’t change the fact that they all love him so much, which they do. 

This is Australian rules football, not ballet. There is absolutely still a time and a place for a coach to rip paint off the walls. A few players were extremely undisciplined during that Carlton final and needed to hear the unvarnished truth. If a few choice expletives came out and individual players named, so be it. They’re adults, not 15yo school kids. You don’t get participation trophies in AFL finals. 

12 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Watching the replay the umpiring is disgusting. Williamson no 22 is so one sided it's embarrassing for the afl

You are a brave man watching the replay!

11 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Selecting TMac was a worse option. He was completely unprepared and underdone

No doubt. It’s a shame the club CEO doesn’t have the floor to tear strips of the coach of after the game because Goodwin deserved his own blast for that error. 

But Grundy wasn’t going to be the answer. Either start Schache who at least has some forward craft or play Tracc deeper forward for longer periods and deploy a smaller forward line. Both not ideal options but better than playing TMac who was moving slower than the Tin Man from the wizard of Oz. 

2 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Still confused about Grundy not playing against Carlton.

Did Goody get it wrong?

Yes Yes absolutely Yes      Grundy comes in last quarter    we win   Max was starting to struggle        Shocking selection mistake   but we move on   watch out 2024 (I hope)        I never question the effort. We are not soft just muffed it with execution and poor team selection..  and a big dose of plain bad luck

20 hours ago, Abyssal said:

For a start, I don’t think Viney should start there.

One sided and lacks breakaway speed.

Yeah I think you are right we all love Viney but a bit slow out of centre clearances    We hardly ever win a centre clearance

50 minutes ago, The Lobster Effect said:

You are a brave man watching the replay!

It isn't good for your sanity but being at the game I am flummoxed as to how we let it slip.