Midfield ?

[4_Kent_Watts 864]

50 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

Kossie in not a midfielder full stop, should be played deep in the forward line with licence to roam to the 50 that's it.

Ten touches or less for Kozzie ain't enough. Needs to get involved more. 

[dee-tox 4,835]

I want a six foot two, hard running guy with outside skills that can complement Oliver, Viney and Tracc.

We don't have enough classy users on the outside. Sparrow, Jordon, ANB, Rivers, Brayshaw, etc don't do it for me. Kozzie has potential but can't get the pill

[4_Kent_Watts 864]

43 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

JHF alone tonight showed how important composure is. Same with Butters. Unbelievable. 

Petracca and Oliver don't have that level of composure and if people argue that they do, they simply don't bring it consistently. We need to bring in some mids in the next draft that possess high level class and composure through that part of the ground. 

 

I didn't see the game tonight but saying that Petracca and Oliver don't have the composure as BUTTERS and JHF is laughable. I know which 2 I'd prefer, maybe the Port lads were better tonight in ONE game but seriously, what else have they done. Ones a fence hopping, wagon jumper when it got a little tough. 

[homsar 417]

9 minutes ago, 4_Kent_Watts said:

I didn't see the game tonight but saying that Petracca and Oliver don't have the composure as BUTTERS and JHF is laughable. I know which 2 I'd prefer, maybe the Port lads were better tonight in ONE game but seriously, what else have they done. Ones a fence hopping, wagon jumper when it got a little tough. 

They are absolute guns. 

[58er 6,079]

1 hour ago, A F said:

For me it was more about our mids defensive running and lack of post clearance pressure, and the lack of work rate from our forwards to impact across half forward and the middle of the ground.

IMO, it wasn't a personnel problem, but a work rate problem.

Perhaps the 5 day turnaround accompanied by travel played into it, but that first half was almost as bad as we've played all season. Port were great in the first half, but we were horrendous. 

It's a 6 day turnaround not 5.

In case we have all forgotten there are 7 days in the week and we generally work Mon-Frid and that's 5 days. 

Sunday seems to be forgotten as the 7th day!! 
 

[Soidee 1,496]

Hinckley has been there for 10 years.  No flags, been top of the ladder before. Home ground and hype.  MFC midfield absolutely need pace. 

 

[4_Kent_Watts 864]

5 minutes ago, homsar said:

They are absolute guns. 

Not saying they can't play, they're obviously good but achievements over current careers, it ain't even close. 

[whatwhat say what 22,303]

in terms of the midfield, we really missed sparrow

brayshaw is not a midfielder who suits our game style, as his ability to switch from offense to defense is very slow

petracca was clearly hobbled and couldn't get any acceleration out of the contest til after half time, and then only sporadically

[Demon Dynasty 17,108]

2 hours ago, Sideshow Bob said:

Our midfield is a myth.

We have genuine bulls but not the out and out class and are severely lacking in pace - have been for a long time 

Need to get pure speed on the ball - kozzie rivers bowey need to play alongside 1 or 2 bulls only and burst out with the pill. 

It's way to dour in there 

We do but i don't see anyone who has genuine mid field cred that will also bring the rest at this stage.

There's only so much Tracc, Max and Viney can do.  Viney and Max decent extractors but no toe, Tracc the receiver/clearance player with some break away power.

Clarry has usually been handy to VG here when he drives out of stoppage but at the moment that aspect appears to have dropped away somewhat vs 2021/22 levels.

He was also a decent extractor but even that appears to have left him a tad in the last 3 to 4 weeks?

We lack an Anderson, Day or N Daicos type (ok so everyone wants Daicos) classy ball user with burst speed over 10 to 20 meters who can clear congestion and hit targets coming inside or direct it to advantage.

That should technically be Kozzy on occasions but he just rarely does and his forward craft also appears to be suffering as a result of the dual role being asked or am i imagining things?

Asking Kozzy to play both but no good at one and dropping off on his usual small pressure crumbing role.  That has to be sending signals to the Coach / FD surely that this is now a fail.  Get him back to doing what he does best ASAP and only bring into the mid field for minor minutes if he isnt getting his hands on it up forward.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[Demon Dynasty 17,108]

1 hour ago, dee-tox said:

I want a six foot two, hard running guy with outside skills that can complement Oliver, Viney and Tracc.

We don't have enough classy users on the outside. Sparrow, Jordon, ANB, Rivers, Brayshaw, etc don't do it for me. Kozzie has potential but can't get the pill

To be fair im not sure we've seen enough of Rivers through the middle to tell if he is or isn't.

Having said that why would you want to when he's doing so well off HB and our only line breaker from there?  Another case of robbing Peter if we did.

Sparrow's probably the best of a bad bunch but still isn't the answer imv.  He's much better at stoppage work around the ground but not at 666.

Agree with the other players highlighted and the first para about getting an outside user with skills/finesse.

[1858 285]

1 hour ago, poita said:

Too much is left to too few. Other teams are rotating 7 to 8 players through, we're scraping the bottom of the barrel by the time we're up to our first rotation. I'll excuse Oliver and Petracca some errors when they're carrying the entire team each week. We need to find multiple midfielders in this draft. 

It's been the issue for the last 4 or 5 yrs. Our midfield depth is deplorable and it's a serious issue, not just this year but beyond.

We leave Petracca out of the midfield for a while and we get towelled. Huge eye opener. 40 odd list spaces and only 3 decent mids who Goodwin will run into the ground like he did last year.

Gun midfielders and a decent running half back are critical this coming off season, be it trade or draft.

Pies midfield depth is ridiculously deep. Lions as well.

[censored] Goodwin is dumb.

 

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

1 hour ago, 1858 said:

It's been the issue for the last 4 or 5 yrs. Our midfield depth is deplorable and it's a serious issue, not just this year but beyond.

We leave Petracca out of the midfield for a while and we get towelled. Huge eye opener. 40 odd list spaces and only 3 decent mids who Goodwin will run into the ground like he did last year.

Gun midfielders and a decent running half back are critical this coming off season, be it trade or draft.

Pies midfield depth is ridiculously deep. Lions as well.

[censored] Goodwin is dumb.

 

I've been saying it for years. Attribute diversity and diversity of player type. We lack it and have for too long. Sparrow, Jordan, Viney. Same weaknesses. Oliver and Petracca? Same weaknesses. 

Pies and Bris have a much better and more balanced spread. So do other midfields.

Our inside depth is fine. But we are a one trick pony. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by JimmyGadson

[BW511 2,591]

We may have 2 of the better mids in the comp and 2 of the better rucks but for all their brilliance there are serious flaws in their respective games. 

Teams used to beat us by bringing big mids in to match Clarry at the drop, now they bank on smaller, skilful types to just run away from us. We lack that balance that Collingwood, Brisbane and Port have around the ball.

Trac almost won us the game single handedly but gee, he fumbles and shanks kicks a lot too. He’s like Dangerfield in his way to impact a contest and then completely undo his hard work. In contrast, Butters had a night to remember but he made almost every possession count, same for Rozee. This wasn’t a one off performance from them, they’ve been doing it for weeks.

The game has adapted in a short time to counter our 2021 method and I think we might have hung on a little too long.

 

[Wells 11 5,299]

44 minutes ago, BW511 said:

We may have 2 of the better mids in the comp and 2 of the better rucks but for all their brilliance there are serious flaws in their respective games. 

Teams used to beat us by bringing big mids in to match Clarry at the drop, now they bank on smaller, skilful types to just run away from us. We lack that balance that Collingwood, Brisbane and Port have around the ball.

Trac almost won us the game single handedly but gee, he fumbles and shanks kicks a lot too. He’s like Dangerfield in his way to impact a contest and then completely undo his hard work. In contrast, Butters had a night to remember but he made almost every possession count, same for Rozee. This wasn’t a one off performance from them, they’ve been doing it for weeks.

The game has adapted in a short time to counter our 2021 method and I think we might have hung on a little too long.

 

yep. The game has changed re the type of midfielders that will  win flags. Yes you’ve still got to be tough but speed and foot skills are bk in town and open the game to speed. Port have 3 of the new prototype  in  Butters , JHF and rozee.  Pies have 2.5 in  pendlebury and Daicos. Lions have 2 in Raynor and Ashcroft these are the new breed of elite.  We just don’t have that type . I would have thougt in the wet our mix prob should have had an edge but clearly didn’t. Perhaps that includes strategy as well? seems we too easily get picked apart now out of stoppage .

But in general we’re missing speed and elite footskills and there’s no one coming through with those attributes. JJ, Harmes and Dunstan are all v good players but they’re not gonna change our dynamic. Woewodin looks a bit similar. Howes? maybe worth a look. Hunter adds nothing ,  Brayshaw has gone backwards…sparrow is just another of OUR prototype. Seems we’re just wavy too full of good to v good plodders. Will consistently  beat up on younger bodied teams and lose to the top 4-5 teams. We’ve slipped a long way. 

Yes Oliver and Trac and Max are elite and champions of the game but we won’t win a flag now without more and different in our arsenal. I’m seeing a 4-6 th finish. A PF is as high as I see us going. Hate to say it but we’re just not winning a flag in 23.

The only upside is 2x good first round picks and more time into JVR.  

[BW511 2,591]

16 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

yep. The game has changed re the type of midfielders that will  win flags. Yes you’ve still got to be tough but speed and foot skills are bk in town and open the game to speed. Port have 3 of the new prototype  in  Butters , JHF and rozee.  Pies have 2.5 in  pendlebury and Daicos. Lions have 2 in Raynor and Ashcroft these are the new breed of elite.  We just don’t have that type . I would have thougt in the wet our mix prob should have had an edge but clearly didn’t. Perhaps that includes strategy as well? seems we too easily get picked apart now out of stoppage .

But in general we’re missing speed and elite footskills and there’s no one coming through with those attributes. JJ, Harmes and Dunstan are all v good players but they’re not gonna change our dynamic. Woewodin looks a bit similar. Howes? maybe worth a look. Hunter adds nothing ,  Brayshaw has gone backwards…sparrow is just another of OUR prototype. Seems we’re just wavy too full of good to v good plodders. Will consistently  beat up on younger bodied teams and lose to the top 4-5 teams. We’ve slipped a long way. 

Yes Oliver and Trac and Max are elite and champions of the game but we won’t win a flag now without more and different in our arsenal. I’m seeing a 4-6 th finish. A PF is as high as I see us going. Hate to say it but we’re just not winning a flag in 23.

The only upside is 2x good first round picks and more time into JVR.  

Interestingly, I think JVR was amongst a small few that genuinely wanted to impact the contest. Yes, he gave a way a couple of frees but he wanted to be involved.

 

[Kent 2,878]

6 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

in terms of the midfield, we really missed sparrow

brayshaw is not a midfielder who suits our game style, as his ability to switch from offense to defense is very slow

petracca was clearly hobbled and couldn't get any acceleration out of the contest til after half time, and then only sporadically

So is Petracca injured? We are playing injured players again like last year Wow!!! 

Viney was managed out of the contest by Drew good coaching

Brayshaw is a HBF not a midfielder

Kossie is a small forward not a midfielder

S May you can kick out to the other side if you want So predictable

Max You got worked over by better coaching

Harmes should have played TMAc shouldn't have played

[adonski 10,986]

Can't believe people calling for Sparrow to come back in, not sure how he fixes any of our issues. Just another plodder to the trough. 

May as well be adventurous and give Rivers and Pickett some extended minutes on ball. Bring in Howes if Hunter is rubbed out. 

[dazzledavey36 53,225]

I know it'll never happen but I'd like to see us throw Bowey through the midfield.

Watching Butters last night and thinking how he was too quick and nimble for the likes of Petracca and Brayshaw. Not only that, Bowey skills set and speed on the outside is something we're severely lacking.

I say this because he was highly rated as a midfielder in his under 18's days which was eerily similar to Butters junior year level as well as an outside midfielder/half forward for the Western Jets and Vic Metro. Bowey is aggressive enough to have a crack as an inside midfielder imo.

Having the likes of Petracca, Brayshaw, Viney and Oliver is far too one dimensional. They're all one paced and neither are good field kicks at all.

Like I said, it'll never happen but me personally it's something I'd genuinely look at.

[titan_uranus 24,857]

It’s depth, IMO. We have Trac and Oliver, then Viney, then not enough. The strong sides this year have more:

- Port - Butters, Rozee, JHF, Wines, Boak, Drew

- Brisbane - Neale, Dunkley, McCluggage, Ashcroft, Zorko, Bailey

- Collingwood - De Goey, Mitchell, Adams, Pendlebury, N Daicos, Crisp

- Geelong - Dangerfield, Atkins, Holmes, Blicavs, Guthrie

- Bulldogs - Bont, Libba, Treloar, Macrae, Smith

When Trac and Oliver dominate, they are so good that we as a side are too good. But when they can’t or don’t dominate, there just isn’t enough to work with. Sparrow, Jordon, ANB, Brayshaw, Harmes - they just don’t stack up with our competitors’ 4th, 5th and 6th mids. 

[ANG13 2,039]

30 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I know it'll never happen but I'd like to see us throw Bowey through the midfield.

Watching Butters last night and thinking how he was too quick and nimble for the likes of Petracca and Brayshaw. Not only that, Bowey skills set and speed on the outside is something we're severely lacking.

I say this because he was highly rated as a midfielder in his under 18's days which was eerily similar to Butters junior year level as well as an outside midfielder/half forward for the Western Jets and Vic Metro. Bowey is aggressive enough to have a crack as an inside midfielder imo.

Having the likes of Petracca, Brayshaw, Viney and Oliver is far too one dimensional. They're all one paced and neither are good field kicks at all.

Like I said, it'll never happen but me personally it's something I'd genuinely look at.

I would also like to see Bowey given a run through the midfield he absolutely has strengths the rest of our midfield lack in. With Salem back and Hunter possibly out next week I really hope we see Bowey and Rivers given some midfield time. Forgot Bowey was injured last night so might have to wait to see him in the midfield. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by ANG13

[Roost it far 7,630]

Max is starting to show his age yet we double down using him as the key, he's also not a forward. We're 2 skilled outside runners and a 25 year old key forward short.

Do you play Schache?

Is BBB being put on ice until the backend of the season?

Can Rivers, Bowey, Pickett and Chandler play some time through the middle?

Can we finally drop ANB?

Something needs to shift 

How good is JHF, these kids just roll out and supersede the last model, he's going to be next level, as is Anderson. Beautiful to watch.

Edited May 19, 2023 by Roost it far

[BW511 2,591]

26 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

It’s depth, IMO. We have Trac and Oliver, then Viney, then not enough. The strong sides this year have more:

- Port - Butters, Rozee, JHF, Wines, Boak, Drew

- Brisbane - Neale, Dunkley, McCluggage, Ashcroft, Zorko, Bailey

- Collingwood - De Goey, Mitchell, Adams, Pendlebury, N Daicos, Crisp

- Geelong - Dangerfield, Atkins, Holmes, Blicavs, Guthrie

- Bulldogs - Bont, Libba, Treloar, Macrae, Smith

When Trac and Oliver dominate, they are so good that we as a side are too good. But when they can’t or don’t dominate, there just isn’t enough to work with. Sparrow, Jordon, ANB, Brayshaw, Harmes - they just don’t stack up with our competitors’ 4th, 5th and 6th mids. 

All those sides have a mix of inside/out. We have a mix of inside or further inside.

JHF is going to be such a damaging player and with Butters & Rozee around him, they have a very good midfield for the next 5 years

Edited May 19, 2023 by BW511

[rjay 24,677]

9 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

we seem to do this when oppi teams bring pressure

I think all teams struggle with pressure.

We didn't bring our pressure game, they did.

[rjay 24,677]

10 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

We're 2 skilled outside runners and a 25 year old key forward short.

I think this has been the the case this season & last...it's not an easy fix.

[spirit of norm smith 15,469]

Clangers - Trac 8, Oliver7, Viney 7. 
Butters 4, Rozee 6, Wines 2. Composure was definitely lacking with footy in hand.