Boot Camp 2017 cancelled by Players

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,816]

2 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Groundhog.....click...rrrr...Groundhog....click....rrrr...

Believe the "BC 14'  are going to be carried around Luna Park on Family Day in  an open wagon, before being tongue lashed by Robbo

...

Until you clarify whether Robbo means Mark Robinson or Russell Robertson, I don't know whether to be really troubled or really, really troubled by this visual. But I agree with your overall perspective.

[Lucifers Hero 39,966]

Was training not to continue as usual this week at The Paddock?

No reports from anyone or on the club website.  Perhaps it was all indoors. 

I wonder if @Satyriconhomeknows what happened to training?  Or maybe @Drunkn167 might know.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[pinkshark 950]

On 14/12/2017 at 8:55 PM, Moonshadow said:

Given Drunken's brother is on the MFC list, more weight than normal could be placed upon the comments.

But sure, it may or may not be true. That pretty much covers the range of options.

Drunken's brother plays for us?  Is this true?

[bush demon 2,046]

6 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Drunken indicated some in our leadership voiced concerns about the camp. 

The leadership team is:

• Vince:  32 y.o
• Lewis: 31 y.o
• Gawn:  Injured most of 2017.  History of hamstring injuries.  Working hard to get back to his best.
• Viney:  carried foot injury all thru last preseason and 2017 season and has not yet recovered. 
• Jones: reported calf issues a few weeks ago and will be 30 next month.
• Mcdonald:  Recovering from double ankle surgery - set to join main training after Christmas.

All are over 30 and/or have leg/foot injuries.  And, we know of other players who have foot/back niggles/concerns.  So, I can see why one or more leaders would have genuine concerns about player well being and injury risk.  What does not make sense is the club wanting to take aging/injured/recovering players on a grueling camp. 

It makes me wonder if the club fully thought it through or handled player concerns properly.  Add AFLPA to the mix and a leak to the media and we have a very bad look story.  Unfortunately, it adds to the 'Demons are mentally weak' narrative and it will be milked, mercilessly next year. 

I'm not interested in knowing who the players were.  Just want us to stop shooting ourselves in the foot.  And, if there is an 'elephant in the room' over this, Goodwin and Co need to decamp it asap! 

 

Footnote:  I believe Melbourne Storm (Comando style camp) and Hawthorn (Kakoda) take only new recruits these days. 

Just like the Kokoda/western Front days of yore, when the young enlistees were sent to the battlefront.

[grey wolf 226]

Life is simple in the rainforest .... the coach says crawl and I crawl ... the coach says smoke this and I drag big time ... the coach says kill that sucker and I don’t even ask with what... you want to win a flag you have to believe the coach ... see bulldogs ... see tigers... seems to me this is now a big test for Goody our saviour...

[Redleg 40,973]

1 hour ago, pinkshark said:

Drunken's brother plays for us?  Is this true?

Yes.

[daisycutter 29,622]

6 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

This thread is full of double standards.

I seem to recall there was a lot of criticism of another club's players a few years ago for not speaking to the AFLPA or their managers when there were concerns about a particular course of action taken by that club. Would we be concerned if our players willingly complied with an apparently dodgy supplements program by implicitly trusting everything told to them by a football department and a suspect "sports scientist"? Or would we say those players thought they were "bigger than the club"?

a totally chalk and cheese analogy. ldvc. i'm surprised you can't see that

this was not an issue that should have gone to the union at the very outset

[dees189227 12,394]

Im sorry but I just think a group of players running to the AFLPA behind the coach's back is just wrong. At least have the guts to front the coach. 

Do you reckon they would have done it if Roosy was there? 

Yeah ok so there were 2 injuries last year, but out of how many players attended? Its not the coach's fault Salem didn't pack his backpack correctly. accidents happen. I mean if the players cop an injury on the field next year are they going to say no Im not going back out onto the field. No I wouldn't have thought so. 

What have these players done to have this right to decide on what they want to do? Nothing. 

This camp was to also teach you about discipline and respect and also about team bonding. Something we don't appear to be right now. Its to put you out of your comfort zone. 

Could you imagine the hawks players a few years ago and saying to Clarko we don't want to do Kokoda. No they did it. Craig Bellamy made the whole storm squad one year walk from AAMI park to the 100 steps in the hills. Its about mixing things up. 

I would have liked to see our 2 captains stand up and back the coach and say no we are going to do this. So obviously they don't get listened to either. 

If this was another team we would be laughing at them. But no, its our team and we were the laughing stock after r23 and here we are again. Im just frustrated with this team sometimes. 

[Drunkn167 5,093]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Was training not to continue as usual this week at The Paddock?

No reports from anyone or on the club website.  Perhaps it was all indoors. 

I wonder if @Satyriconhomeknows what happened to training?  Or maybe @Drunkn167 might know.

Training has been going on as per usual, tomorrow the last day before the Christmas break.

We thought they would get hammered this week because of this whole situation but it's been pretty much normal, even throwing in some fun activities/games to keep everyone feeling good about everything, morale is still really high and Goodwin has come out and said he is extremely happy with how everyone has approached training this preseason.

Tomorrow looks like it's gonna be a long, hard day however, but that's probably the same as every last day before the break.

[dworship 3,342]

I look back at some of the things Bomber Thompson tried and then said when the Cats became a dominant team. I think it went along the lines " I stepped back once the Leadership Group started leading, they drove the standards they set the agenda". This is not the non leaders group from years ago. I have no problem with them stepping up and saying "No" to something they don't agree with. The proof will be in how much they "drive" the season. If Goodwin has a Messiah complex he will fail, if the "players" drive the season it will be a great thing IMHO. I cannot fathom how the current player group has not got the drive to go all the way and on that basis if they have said no to something, I think they need to be supported.

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

5 minutes ago, Drunkn167 said:

Training has been going on as per usual, tomorrow the last day before the Christmas break.

We thought they would get hammered this week because of this whole situation but it's been pretty much normal, even throwing in some fun activities/games to keep everyone feeling good about everything, morale is still really high and Goodwin has come out and said he is extremely happy with how everyone has approached training this preseason.

Tomorrow looks like it's gonna be a long, hard day however, but that's probably the same as every last day before the break.

Fantastic to hear, Drunkn.  I think many of the players will head into the Xmas break in the best nick they've been in for a long time!

[daisycutter 29,622]

3 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Fantastic to hear, Drunkn.  I think many of the players will head into the Xmas break in the best nick they've been in for a long time!

i suspect no-one on this forum has any real objective evidence that the players are in any better nick at this time than at the same time last year.

just typical subjective pre-season optimism

of course though wiseblood, i do hope that you are correct  

[Wiseblood 24,637]

16 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

i suspect no-one on this forum has any real objective evidence that the players are in any better nick at this time than at the same time last year.

just typical subjective pre-season optimism

of course though wiseblood, i do hope that you are correct  

Meh.  It's no different to what we've spent the last few days arguing on here about, and it won't be any different in the years to come.

Such is life on a football forum.

[KLV 1,765]

On 18/12/2017 at 10:30 AM, drdrake said:

Agree with this and for this to be needed to be addressed at the AGM is a concern.  Deal with it in house keep it in house don't let others get wind of a story that should be dealt with and put to bed.

Goodwin should tell his sports science team and Dave Minson to take a spell from training this week and turn the clock back to your 100 x 100's, put the balls away and have the flock them to death sessions.

It was addressed at the agm in response to a member question.

And really, people care what Danny Frawley thinks???

[RalphiusMaximus 6,076]

Nineteen pages on this?  Seriously?

A journalist wrote an article about something that a guy who is paid to generate discussion on the radio said.  Neither of them has spoken to anyone at the club.  Neither of them have any idea of what actually happened or who it was in the playing group who raised the issue.  It's basically a journalist trying to quote a professional gossip as a source.  He'd be better writing for Women's Weekly. 

This is an absolute non-issue. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

7 hours ago, rjay said:

Ok, let me take a different angle on this.

Why did the coach leave it until the last week to announce another boot camp?

Did he know that the players weren't keen on it and kept it from them until the last minute.

On this I'm only making a supposition, I do find it interesting though.

The communication has been poor from both sides and as a club I wish we didn't have sides but a team working together.

For some reason this wasn't the case and I wouldn't be laying the blame just with the players.

The coach and FD have to take at least some responsibility for this years aborted camp and all the responsibility for last years debacle.

I assume part of it is to spring it on the players so they cannot mentally prepare for it as well as they may have if they knew about it some weeks ago. Although posters on here had already commented it was happening again so maybe it was the timing that was the issue (ie just before their mandated Xmas break)?

[Jack Jack Tappy 112]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I assume part of it is to spring it on the players so they cannot mentally prepare for it as well as they may have if they knew about it some weeks ago. Although posters on here had already commented it was happening again so maybe it was the timing that was the issue (ie just before their mandated Xmas break)?

 

[Jack Jack Tappy 112]

The players did go back to the coach and two days later the coach said the camp was still on with some modifications from last year, such as a doctor being there who might be able to deal with Tysons dislocated knee cap. Some players weren't happy and spoke to the Aflpa. Their main issues were, one deconditioning, some players lost 5kgs over that 3 days, abuse and risk of injury.  The majority of players saw no advantage in the camp at all which   was proven late in the season.  Maybe the players were right to protect themselves against a FD that might be wrong. Maybe we should congratulate them for standing up??

[Moonshadow 17,676]

8 hours ago, Biffen said:

How about a summer camp in Cancun like the old days?

a few slabs and drinking games. And a bit of beach work for their tans?

Maybe a bit of spin the bottle too, eh Biff?

Good to see you are back after your drug rehab stint. Any other celebs in there?

[Demon trucker 1,800]

 I reckon a lot of the posters that are angry now are the same posters that were saying the camp was a waste of time last year, hypocrites worst people in the world.

[Demon trucker 1,800]

6 hours ago, grey wolf said:

Life is simple in the rainforest .... the coach says crawl and I crawl ... the coach says smoke this and I drag big time ... the coach says kill that sucker and I don’t even ask with what... you want to win a flag you have to believe the coach ... see bulldogs ... see tigers... seems to me this is now a big test for Goody our saviour...

Smoke this, that is what got essendon is trouble, that is what got  Russia in trouble take these jabbs I'm your coach I know what's best for you they don't always

[Biffen 12,944]

3 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Maybe a bit of spin the bottle too, eh Biff?

Good to see you are back after your drug rehab stint. Any other celebs in there?

Only the talented ones Moon-the rest are on TV.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

7 hours ago, Jack Jack Tappy said:

The players did go back to the coach and two days later the coach said the camp was still on with some modifications from last year, such as a doctor being there who might be able to deal with Tysons dislocated knee cap. Some players weren't happy and spoke to the Aflpa. Their main issues were, one deconditioning, some players lost 5kgs over that 3 days, abuse and risk of injury.  The majority of players saw no advantage in the camp at all which   was proven late in the season.  Maybe the players were right to protect themselves against a FD that might be wrong. Maybe we should congratulate them for standing up??

The deconditioning is the biggest one. Preseason is about tuning their bodies to the nth degree for the upcoming season, going through the camp and then having a 2 week (?) break seems counterproductive.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

As to the camp itself, I'm unsure as to whether it was beneficial and should have gone ahead or it's a waste of time and pointless.

But the way in which things have played out is just no good from a PR perspective. The coaches look like they have (not saying they have) lost the players. The players look (not saying they are) self-entitled and like they know what is best despite choking this year and having achieved two-tenths of stuff all in their careers to date. 

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

9 hours ago, Jack Jack Tappy said:

The players did go back to the coach and two days later the coach said the camp was still on with some modifications from last year, such as a doctor being there who might be able to deal with Tysons dislocated knee cap. Some players weren't happy and spoke to the Aflpa. Their main issues were, one deconditioning, some players lost 5kgs over that 3 days, abuse and risk of injury.  The majority of players saw no advantage in the camp at all which   was proven late in the season.  Maybe the players were right to protect themselves against a FD that might be wrong. Maybe we should congratulate them for standing up??

If the above are actual facts it might give us a slight understanding on their concerns about the camp but with all due respect Tappy, this group is a long way away from being congratulated.