Elephants in the room! x 2

[Gator 17,449]

9 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Oh, also, the other elephant in the room is overuse! Overuse of what?!! Of exclamation points! And short declarative sentences! Which makes everything seem confrontational! Everything! Big Ted and Mr Squiggle are from different shows! Everyone who was there knows that!

His style is reminiscent of a president with funny hair.

[btdemon 482]

Giving Watts some ruck responsibilities was great for his game last year as well. It gets him into the game, bangs his body around a bit and stops him being so reticent about the physical contest. If he used stronger hands when marking it would improve his game further. That goal out of traffic was one of the goals of the year IMO

[btdemon 482]

6 hours ago, A F said:

You want to drop Tyson for butchering the ball and you suggest replacing him with Tomas Bugg?

Tyson was horrible today, but worked himself into it last week and usually takes a few weeks to get going after injury. He's become one of the most maligned players on Demonland.

He needs to 'use the first option' until he finds touch. He is great at finding the ball but so often holds on to it too long looking for options. Then turns it over because he doesn't have the kicking skill. This makes him look very selfish. Frustrates the hell out of me sometimes. If he could correct this aspect he would be very damaging.

[sue 9,142]

9 hours ago, FireInTheBelly said:

Elephant 4 - I love Watts like a brother, but has he ever taken a mark in his hands out in front? Ever? He was terrific today but he dropped some easy marks, and some tough ones, but he should be expected to take them. I'm a little concerned he's been training at the Chris Dawes school of marking.

He took one in the game. Arms well out in front.  I assume you were distracted and didn't see it, rather thn suffering from bias.

[sue 9,142]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

...

PS If it's directed at supporters that never see any good in Watts ever then I'd understand, but I don't recall encountering a poster like that on these forums. 

You must have quite a few people on ignore or a short memory.

There's been a lot of criticism of various players in this thread but if we had kicked straight we would be overlooking all that.  Sometimes a team just racks up  misses from very gettable goals.  There were at least 7 early on - normally on a bad day you'd expect to get 3 of them.  We got a deflating 0.  Just happens. Cheer up.

[Redleg 41,427]

11 hours ago, Nasher said:

Odd timing re: the Viney criticism - was heaps better today than the previous two weeks.  That miss though.

Not Robinson Crusoe on the miss. 

[Lord Travis 10,763]

Viney has been poor this year. His numbers still look ok, but his intensity around the contest is completely gone. The past few years he was like a terrier n there smashing into guys and barking out orders and insults. This year he's completely lacking in intensity and ironically leadership. It's lucky for us Jones has stepped up again and our midfield is now a lot deeper so it's not as noticeable and isn't as big an issue as it would've been in the past. He definitely needs a kick up the ass though. Not good enough from a captain to miss simple goals and go into his shell instead of leading the way. Hope he finds intensity soon because he's ineffective at present.

I've been a Watts defender in the past and it's great to see he is having another good year. He wasn't at his best in rounds 1+2, but he was still good. I'll take 20 touches and 2 goals a game from him every week if that's what he offers on top of the many he sets up. He was outstanding yesterday. He must be one of the mentally tough players to ever play the game to cop the amount of crap he does from everywhere and still bust his gut time and time again. We know he's skillful but yesterday he ran himself into the ground for the team in a position he's not suited to playing. He gets my respect for busting his ass and having such a big impact. If only his teammates had his skill and drive, we would've won by 70 points!

Edited April 8, 2017 by Lord Travis

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

10 hours ago, FireInTheBelly said:

Elephant 4 - I love Watts like a brother, but has he ever taken a mark in his hands out in front? Ever? He was terrific today but he dropped some easy marks, and some tough ones, but he should be expected to take them. I'm a little concerned he's been training at the Chris Dawes school of marking.

Never had the hands to just clunk marks. If he did, he'd be a superstar.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

14 minutes ago, demon9 said:

Never had the hands to just clunk marks. If he did, he'd be a superstar.

 

He's always had the hands. He is one of the most naturally gifted players and his touch is sublime.

The fact that he doesn't clunk marks in packs is a between the ears issue. Nothing more, nothing less.

To put it bluntly, he doesn't embrace contact.

Thought he battled manfully yesterday after Gawn went down though. 

[Biffen 12,947]

With Hogan and Lewis out and Spencer the in form ,next cab off the rank,Goodwin made an error in elevating Smith.

Easy to say in hindsight I know.

Same with his premature call on Viney- it was unnecessary to put it mildly.

Jack Watts is the straightest kick in the  comp.He is a forward.

 

[Mr Steve 3,820]

Melbourne Footy Club will be putting up a video soon ALL THE POINTS.

[Nasher 33,617]

5 minutes ago, Biffen said:

With Hogan and Lewis out and Spencer the in form ,next cab off the rank,Goodwin made an error in elevating Smith.

Easy to say in hindsight I know.

Same with his premature call on Viney- it was unnecessary to put it mildly.

Jack Watts is the straightest kick in the  comp.He is a forward.

 

Gawn going down mid-game has been a danger since the middle of last year and was bound to come undone eventually. Goodwin would have been well aware of this. It's a roll of the dice that we have clearly been willing to make and it has paid off for a long time with the extra run it adds.

I'm not going to criticise an obviously calculated risk just because yesterday happened to be the (inevitable) unlucky day it came home to roost.

[Nasher 33,617]

2 minutes ago, Mr Steve said:

Melbourne Footy Club will be putting up a video soon ALL THE POINTS.

I laughed. Then sobbed violently.

[picket fence 17,500]

3 hours ago, ProDee said:

His style is reminiscent of a president with funny hair.

Yep and decisiveness is a key attribute which builds solid leadership! Take it or leave it!

Edited April 9, 2017 by picket fence

[Guest]

12 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Not sure why Viney is being criticised when there's a bloke named Tyson who this week may as well not have played.

Last week people got sucked in to his possession count but this week against quality opposition he was just irrelevant.

Viney was simply out-played and positioned by two bonafide stars of the game. 

Both definitely need to lift though. I still wouldn't be playing Tyson right now if I was coach. Makes us slower and just doesn't have enough polish to add to what is an already predictable, one-paced group of mids.

Irrelephant in the room?

[Dee-Nee 91]

Viney can not be considered a Grade A player as he has no right side and the opposition now exploits this, leaving him with nowhere to go except straight into a tackle. I can't remember a left footer with no right side ever developing one. He seems to be doomed to be a limitted player. Use him as a tagger.

[loges 6,767]

10 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Weideman is the biggest underperformer in the team by far at present.  1 kick, 4 handballs,  1 mark and 1 tackle is nowhere near acceptable.  Pedesen must be back in the team ahead of Weideman now.  Weideman keeping his place in the side after two average to poor games first up, then an absolute shocker is bad for team culture - reeks of the gifting games to high draft picks that the club did so well to get away from.

I can't even  see how it's doing him any good developmentally or confidence wise to continue to play him in his present form.

We can't afford for Weideman to just have his 2 cameos and then have no further presence in the game, especially with Hogan out. We needed him to step up today and had no impact. Pedersen used to get ripped off every time they selected Dawes before him, it will be the same again if they don't start giving him a go, no world beater but plays his role

[Return to Glory 8,448]

13 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Not sure why Viney is being criticised when there's a bloke named Tyson who this week may as well not have played.

Last week people got sucked in to his possession count but this week against quality opposition he was just irrelevant.

Viney was simply out-played and positioned by two bonafide stars of the game. 

Both definitely need to lift though. I still wouldn't be playing Tyson right now if I was coach. Makes us slower and just doesn't have enough polish to add to what is an already predictable, one-paced group of mids.

I'd have to agree. It's a little bit of statistics and damn lies with Dom Tyson. Often gets a lot of the ball but is also often a bad decision maker. Feel like there's a bit of the Test cricket team about Tyson's regular inclusion in that I suspect he's a ripper bloke. But I don't feel he's best 22 if we're up and about and injury free. Happy to be wrong.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Jack Watts' goal was ridiculous. Best I have ever seen.

Our goal kicking was ridiculous. Worst I have ever seen.

My Cats' supporting mate, with whom I watched the game, was ridiculously annoying. Nearly punched him in the head after the game. We're not talking today.

 

[Dante 2,739]

10 minutes ago, loges said:

We can't afford for Weideman to just have his 2 cameos and then have no further presence in the game, especially with Hogan out. We needed him to step up today and had no impact. Pedersen used to get ripped off every time they selected Dawes before him, it will be the same again if they don't start giving him a go, no world beater but plays his role

Take Hogan and Watts out of the forward line and make a first gamer and a young developing forward the main players and you get what you did yesterday.

Weideman will develop well under Hogan and Watts but he was thrown in the deep end yesterday and wasn't able to cope, that should't surprise anyone, his body is too immature to take on the lead role. i doubt that the coaching panel expect to win the flag this year, it would be nice but unlikely, so they need to get players that will be part of our tilt at the flag ready and playing them in soft games at Casey won't help, all it will do is make it seem like it's easy. I'm sure the coaches will point out to Weid what he did wrong and if they feel he needs a bit of time to hone his skills they will give him a game or two at Casey but I doubt he will be kept there for too long, if at all.

We are a very young team and probably still short a top line midfielder or two who can give the forwards better service.

Sam and Oscar will both be much better players next year, but they won't playing in the minor league.

[Dante 2,739]

7 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Jack Watts' goal was ridiculous. Best I have ever seen.

Our goal kicking was ridiculous. Worst I have ever seen.

My Cats' supporting mate, with whom I watched the game, was ridiculously annoying. Nearly punched him in the head after the game. We're not talking today.

 

That's why I never go to the game, or watch the game with a friend who supports the opposition, I'd prefer to keep them as friends.

[Adam The God 30,407]

3 hours ago, btdemon said:

He needs to 'use the first option' until he finds touch. He is great at finding the ball but so often holds on to it too long looking for options. Then turns it over because he doesn't have the kicking skill. This makes him look very selfish. Frustrates the hell out of me sometimes. If he could correct this aspect he would be very damaging.

Agreed, but Viney is the same and isn't as maligned.

[Little Goffy 14,639]

55 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Yep and decisiveness is a key attribute which builds solid leadership! Take it or leave it!

Decisiveness, bluster, potato, tomato.

[daisycutter 29,737]

you must have a pretty big living room, picket

btw i didn't notice you at the game 

[rjay 25,087]

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

He's always had the hands. He is one of the most naturally gifted players and his touch is sublime.

The fact that he doesn't clunk marks in packs is a between the ears issue. Nothing more, nothing less.

To put it bluntly, he doesn't embrace contact.

Thought he battled manfully yesterday after Gawn went down though. 

Must be the same problem Buddy has...

Rarely clunks a pack mark, does more of his work from the ground or on the lead.

Still considered by many as the best player in the game.