POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 4

[RalphiusMaximus 6,018]

I think this was the most complete game we've played in years. We won every quarter for the first time in I have no idea how long. We controlled the game for most of the day, and when Richmond were ascendant we closed up on the defence and shut the game down until they ran out of puff and we could take it away again. Whole team defence, some real quality in attack, multiple scorers with no one dominant focal point. This was a close to a modern game as we've ever played. Just an amazing effort from the team.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Umpires raped us, it was some of the most biased umpiring I've ever seen

Agreed, I think that would rank right up there as some of the most blatantly biased i've seen in 45 years of watching Dr.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

I watched Jamar closely last night and whilst I think he was shaded around the ground by the mullet I thought he did a fabulous unheralded job. Won't get the votes but very influential with his competitiveness

As did Dawes when he went into the ruck - we got two centre clearances.

Dawes did an excellent job in the ruck jnr. Not sure if the conditions helped him here but i thought he gave Jamar a great chop out

[Chook 15,012]

I think this was the most complete game we've played in years. We won every quarter for the first time in I have no idea how long. We controlled the game for most of the day, and when Richmond were ascendant we closed up on the defence and shut the game down until they ran out of puff and we could take it away again. Whole team defence, some real quality in attack, multiple scorers with no one dominant focal point. This was a close to a modern game as we've ever played. Just an amazing effort from the team.

I think we lost the 2nd quarter by a point.

[jumbo returns 6,737]

Roos wouldn't be reading this rubbish mate. It's just a personal view/hope in that he acts sooner rather than later. (feel free to roll out predictable one liner...."thank god he doesn't...you have no idea!" etc etc ).

Yes, he could be correct in keeping him and i might end up with egg on my face but Watts has had umptine chances to prove he has what it takes at AFL level (mentally/physically). To this point he has failed...and miserably so. I grimace everytime he gets near it and there are (and have been) very few players i would say that about (Morton is another that comes to mind) as i just don't know what sort of contest/committment we're going to see, if any.

It's a combative game and yes there's always going to a be many more contests in congestion with the nature of 120+ interchanges now. That's the way the AFL has designed the game like it or not. But regardless it's always been a physical game even for outside runners and skinny guys. Some lessor built guys will make it at this level (eg., Flower, Laidley etc) if they're willing to commit when it's their time to go, others wont.

As i have said and hoped all along, i really hope he finds this side of his game and ends up being a solid to great player for us...but it's been 6 pre-seasons and he is into his 7th on the field and it's still not happening. You can run but you can't hide on an AFL field. Better if he trys to find it at VFL level IMO. You can't play the loose man down back forever and that is what has happened here. Roos has asked something else of him and he hasn't been up to it till now. And while most of the other boys are lifting their game physically, Watts hasn't been able to go with them. In any team's progress there are likely to be casualties along the way robbie and some collateral damage. You can try and bring everyone along with you but some just wont make it. It's the nature of any professional "team" sport where the team is on the up and up from a low ebb.

Seeing is believing Robbie but i have severe doubts at this point.

Every final's campaign needs a Jack Watts!!

[mo64 5,852]

I watched Jamar closely last night and whilst I think he was shaded around the ground by the mullet I thought he did a fabulous unheralded job. Won't get the votes but very influential with his competitiveness

As did Dawes when he went into the ruck - we got two centre clearances.

Agree. I think someone has gotten into his ear about using his ample frame to advantage at centre bounces by taking up space, hence denying the opposition ruckman room to jump. I noticed that the umpire warned him about doing just that and allowing the 3rd man up to contest the hit out. And as per last week, we used the 3rd man up to give Jamar a chop out.

The injury to Frost was actually a godsend. For Roos' gameplan of attack on the break, we are far better off with just 2 talls in the forward line, with speed all around them. No need for Jamar to rest up forward. And for all of Watts' current issues, he still offers more than Pedo.

[rpfc 28,247]

The most pleasing thing was that the Tigers players were worried as soon as they got it. You could see their eyes and body language react to pressure, even if it wasn't there because when it was there - they were smashed.

Vanders tackle in front of the members in the third would be an example - that is how you 'train' your opponents to make mistakes constantly.

I would have thought that Hardwick would have installed a team of his to handle that pressure and give it out themselves, but I think I learnt my lesson a few years ago.

They look to be running on the spot.

[Macca 16,901]

Clearance numbers were pleasing too ... 39 - 46 in their favour but just like the inside 50's, we seem to be a lot more productive with the numbers that we achieve in both those KPI's.

Would like to know what our scores were from clearances but the eyes tell me that we would have done much better than Richmond.

Notables ...

• 7 - Vince (he's the difference maker)
• 5 - Tyson (right on his average)
• 5 - Jones (about 2 below his standard)
• 4 - vandenBerg (continues to impress)
• 3 - Watts
• 3 - Newton
• 9 other players achieved 1 or 2 clearances.

[daisycutter 29,600]

I haven't got much to add about the game apart from that I enjoyed it thoroughly,....just thought I would add this cherry on top

Was sitting on top deck of Ponsford and went for break at half time, as I was coming back up the steps was nearly bowled over by this big guy bounding down the steps

He apologised, I recognised him and he recognised me, I asked him how he was going and he gave me big smile and said he was great, looked healthy and happy

Name - Christian Petracca

bounding down the steps with a bung knee.........now that's a worry!

i hope you told him to keep away from steps for a while

[titan_uranus 24,964]

Thirdly his claims don't hold water, they can't beat anyone, they rarely if ever trouble a top eight side and I think while it stuck in his mouth to admit it, that when the other side wants the ball more, they go missing.

There was a great question asked of him in the presser last night. Right after he said 'we're good enough to beat anyone' someone asked 'based on the first four weeks, what makes you say that?'. His answer was along the lines of 'I know these boys and I know what they're capable of'. Shows you one of their key problems - he has too much faith in a very average list. Their miraculous run to the finals last year was just that - a miracle. Every other side that needed to stumble, stumbled, and they got Sydney in the final round who didn't care. Of course, for the second year running when the finals came around they got shown up as being leagues behind what's required of a real contender. So far this year they've been given four bottom 4 contenders (Carlton, WB, Brisbane and Melbourne) and gone 2-2. That's not a side who is 'good enough to beat anyone'.

Anyway, I'd take two consecutive finals appearances and a 9-game winning streak over what we've dished up the last few years, but I can also see that Richmond is no closer to a flag than we are.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

First game I've been to for a while since I was away last year......what the f...is with all the advertising boards during the game!!!...it was annoying the hell ...such contrasting logos etc....flashing when players taking set shots....when did this all start??

[RalphiusMaximus 6,018]

I think we lost the 2nd quarter by a point.

Damn you! Just because I got my numbers backwards you have to go and ruin it for me.

Does anyone know how long it has been since we won all four quarters of a match? It must have been a fair while ago.

[Jaded No More 68,855]

Watching the replay for the second time. Getting myself pumped for a night out with depressed Essendon supporters and delusional Carlton supporters.

Great second half. We were so much tougher than Richmond and fought the elements and the umpires.

On second viewing, Howe was excellent.

On second viewing Hogan is still too good to be true.

[Ted Lasso 19,258]

Agree on the umpiring, it was horrible, obviously inconsistent and I was watching with a tiger supporting mate and even he said, when his side has a rub of the green like that and can't win the game, serious issues down at tigerland,

having said that we also gave away some absolutely stupid free kicks through trying to be aggressive.

the other thing I hate is high contact when a bloke drops his knees, as far as I am concerned that should be no different to staging, they are magnifying an action to draw a free kick, how is joel selwood ducking his head any different from a bloke taking a dive, the end result is a bloke doing something to draw a soft free, if they duck their head and get hit high, too bad, unless they are legitimately head over the ball attacking it, no free should be rewarded for a bloke buckling at the knees to draw high contact

[titan_uranus 24,964]

having said that we also gave away some absolutely stupid free kicks through trying to be aggressive.

I agree, although I just watched the replay of the free against VDB which took the ball of Tyson in the goalsquare.

Rubbish free kick. Wasn't high contact, Rance took a dive.

Generally though we need to avoid being stupid in our attempt to be tougher. Our toughness at the contest and at winning the ball is huge and great to watch, but no need to go beyond that.

[titan_uranus 24,964]

Out of interest, that was the biggest non-QB crowd we've played in front of since we played, and beat, Richmond in 2011 (our last instance of consecutive wins).

[Pates 9,655]

Tough 3 weeks coming so this is a massive win for momentum. If we can play with that kind of effort against all Freo, Sydney, and the Hawks then we will not be easy beats and win or lose the fans will be proud.

Jesse has played every game so far exactly how we'd like like, sure he hasn't dominated but the efforts, pack crashing, marking, and 2 goals a game have proven exactly why he were so keen to get him. I reckon Rance thought he was going to give Hogan a lesson, turned out Hogan was the teacher not the pupil!

We are building a good list, with depth and a philosophy of there being a standard every player needs to meet. Michie showed what he is capable of and should play a full game next week in the place of Kent. Sad to lose him, hopefully it's not a serious tear.

Most of our injured players are actually of best 22 quality which makes the win even better!

[DEE fence 5,002]

Agree on the umpiring, it was horrible, obviously inconsistent and I was watching with a tiger supporting mate and even he said, when his side has a rub of the green like that and can't win the game, serious issues down at tigerland,

having said that we also gave away some absolutely stupid free kicks through trying to be aggressive.

the other thing I hate is high contact when a bloke drops his knees, as far as I am concerned that should be no different to staging, they are magnifying an action to draw a free kick, how is joel selwood ducking his head any different from a bloke taking a dive, the end result is a bloke doing something to draw a soft free, if they duck their head and get hit high, too bad, unless they are legitimately head over the ball attacking it, no free should be rewarded for a bloke buckling at the knees to draw high contact

On PRE a bloke called wayne stated that Vince should tag the umps because they have been damaging... made me laugh. That said apart from the reversal of the free in the goal square, I am prepared to live with the umps hating us and not winning the free kick stat, I like the hardness and they are bound to get it a little wrong, but it's worth it. And while I think Hawks will belt us, I reckon we're going to hit them with everything and I'm looking forward to it.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,129]

I couldn't believe how poorly coached Richmond are:

2 things stood out during the match.

1.

Maric rucked unchanged for the whole 3rd quarter.

In wet conditions, and playing against a team that has thrown away leads in the second half of games, surely you would give him 5 minutes off the ground. I'm not positive, but I think he may

have rucked the whole final quarter as well.

No surprise that in the second half Jamar was punching the ball clear in numerous ruck contests. Far away from Cotchin and Edwards.

2. Drummond taken off the ground on a stretcher 5 minutes before half time with a knee injury.

So instead of having the subsitute warming up in the rooms, listening to the coaches instructions for the second half of the game, he

is out on the ground, among the little-leagers, doing kick to kick with a trainer! Blind Freddy could see he would be taking off the vest straight away.

If this is the way he coaches, then Hardwick must be heading for the scrap heap in the near future....

He also played a 7 man defence from the very first bounce and even an 8 man defence at times. Roos refused to take the bait and retained our 6 man defense meaning so many of their forward entries went straight to an unmanned Melbourne defender or an outnumbered Tiger forward.

Very negative tactics from the first bounce in a game you're favourites in (and at the least should be going in with a 50/50 mindset) and was crazy he never tried switching it up at any point during the game.

[DeeSpencer 25,418]

I couldn't believe how poorly coached Richmond are:

2 things stood out during the match.

1.

Maric rucked unchanged for the whole 3rd quarter.

In wet conditions, and playing against a team that has thrown away leads in the second half of games, surely you would give him 5 minutes off the ground. I'm not positive, but I think he may

have rucked the whole final quarter as well.

No surprise that in the second half Jamar was punching the ball clear in numerous ruck contests. Far away from Cotchin and Edwards.

2. Drummond taken off the ground on a stretcher 5 minutes before half time with a knee injury.

So instead of having the subsitute warming up in the rooms, listening to the coaches instructions for the second half of the game, he

is out on the ground, among the little-leagers, doing kick to kick with a trainer! Blind Freddy could see he would be taking off the vest straight away.

If this is the way he coaches, then Hardwick must be heading for the scrap heap in the near future....

I'll need to watch the replay but Griffiths was either injured or ineffectual. Astbury probably could've followed Dawes in to the ruck to relieve Maric but the Tigers didn't lose the game due to Jamar getting on top of Maric, although it didn't hurt our causes.

The sub warming up at half time is a smart idea. 5 minutes down a rotation at the end of the first half is no excuse and whatever half time messages were given could be relayed after he had warmed up. So instead of just doing a few run throughs and stretches the sub can get a good kick of the ball and feel of the grounds atmosphere. Again, they didn't lose the game because the sub who came on and played back pocket wasn't playing to the game plan. Especially not in a wet weather game.

The game was pretty much even at half time and then flooded with rain after that.

Hardwick's failings in this game weren't tactics. They were in failure to prepare his players to do what was required to win the game.

[Pates 9,655]

I'll need to watch the replay but Griffiths was either injured or ineffectual. Astbury probably could've followed Dawes in to the ruck to relieve Maric but the Tigers didn't lose the game due to Jamar getting on top of Maric, although it didn't hurt our causes.

The sub warming up at half time is a smart idea. 5 minutes down a rotation at the end of the first half is no excuse and whatever half time messages were given could be relayed after he had warmed up. So instead of just doing a few run throughs and stretches the sub can get a good kick of the ball and feel of the grounds atmosphere. Again, they didn't lose the game because the sub who came on and played back pocket wasn't playing to the game plan. Especially not in a wet weather game.

The game was pretty much even at half time and then flooded with rain after that.

Hardwick's failings in this game weren't tactics. They were in failure to prepare his players to do what was required to win the game.

I think the tigers lost it in a few areas.

Firstly they missed some very easy chances in the first quarter, scoreboard pressure is the best kind of pressure. Just ask Port Adelaide, they had a seemingly commanding lead from the end of the first quarter but the Hawks started chipping away and kicking goals and they almost pulled off an incredible comeback. We took our chances, the tigers didn't when they clearly were the dominant team of the first quarter.

Secondly their ability to adapt to the conditions. I have no doubt that us playing in the wet last week helped us in that regard because we just played intelligent wet weather footy (most of the time). Whereas the tigers kept wanting to hit up targets and chip it around, then finally when they did go forward our defenders were usually given a good chance to spoil.

Finally we were simply harder at it. Maybe that explains the free kicks being in the tigers favour (although some of them were just absolutely baffling), but our players really had a hunger for the contest. The only time I can remember us not doing that was the tigers first goal and it wouldn't have surprised me if those players got together and vowed that was not going to happen again.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Richmond are tracking a scarily similar path to Carlton. Young coach rebuilds young team, works way into bottom half of the 8 a couple of years, everything looking ok, but then a bad year with injuries, key players not coming on or maintaining the standard. All of a sudden the list doesn't look like it did a couple of years prior when they were on the up.

[Lucifers Hero 39,469]

There is a rumble in the jungle gaining momentum saying players not happy at Tigerland! And, the jungle drums have started beating: Hardwick won't see out his 2016 ending contract.

Tigers are struggling because Hardwick is. Remember last year the players publicly said Hardwick (and Cotchin) weren't hard enough on them at training and weren't demanding enough. So, no wonder they were 'insipid'. Reap what you sow! Quite simply they played lazy on Friday night.

[jackaub 1,402]

Any thoughts on Dom Tysons game. Thought he fumbled a lot and made poor disposal choices But still got plenty of the ball!

[Vagg 2,437]

I think we lost the 2nd quarter by a point.

Only 'cos Jesse's shot on goal on the half-time siren grazed the post...!