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Demonland Podcast with Josh Mahoney TONIGHT 14/11 @ 8:30pm

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1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

Did we?

2017 Pick 10 (which ended up being Lachie O'Brien) and 2018 pick 16 or 17, depending upon F/S and academy matching, for a guy rated as the best young intercept back in the country with exceptional leadership...

Do you even follow the game much?

Yes, but this ignores the picks that came back the other way.

In reality, we got Lever for pick 10 plus the equivalent of pick 51.

(10 + 16 + 73 out vs 37 + 46 in).

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On ‎10‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 2:21 PM, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Not a question but could you get @picket fence to conduct the interview?

Yep happy to oblige and if it reveals my identity then too bad. Happy to conduct a no holds barred interview with Josh!

When time permits I will complete a list of about 10 thought provoking Questions of young Josh!

Stand By!

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13 hours ago, picket fence said:

Yep happy to oblige and if it reveals my identity then too bad. Happy to conduct a no holds barred interview with Josh!

When time permits I will complete a list of about 10 thought provoking Questions of young Josh!

Stand By!

I take it your questions would be pretty similar to Kingdingaling's

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Maybe someone can answer this without Demonland asking him, but does Mahoney personally negotiate and agree to trades? Given he's given praise and criticism on this site for our trading, I want to be sure he's the correct recipient of those opinions.

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On 10/26/2018 at 3:05 PM, McQueen said:

I'd like some closure on the Gaff chase. If you could broach that with asking "did we withdraw because Gaff wasn't interested in the role Goodwin had envisaged for him" (as per ProDee input) and do we now have an eye on Josh Kelly.

 

Pretty sure we know the answer to the Kelly question already. It would go something like this “ we are interested in any player who can improve the MFC, without naming specific players ”. 

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It is my understanding that we can have 40 players on the senior list, plus rookies, plus B grade rookies. If that is correct, we will have currently 34 on the senior list.With 5 trade picks, what happens to the other.Appreciate a question like this, please 

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Confirm that he expects preuss will play fwd and ruck or is he insurance for max?

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I'd like you to ask Josh about the philosophy of trading on premise that "picks are grossly overrated".

If Hogan was in the draft this year he would have gone number one.  If May was in the draft this year he would have been number one.  Neither went for anything like that.  Why?  Do clubs completely overvalue "blue sky" in recruits and do they give enough weight to a possible "bust" factor and do they give enough weight to the "certainty" factor of a known trade?

In general I'd like to hear him talk around this subject with reference to where in a cycle are club is and how that effects their thinking.

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20 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

I'd like you to ask Josh about the philosophy of trading on premise that "picks are grossly overrated".

If Hogan was in the draft this year he would have gone number one.  If May was in the draft this year he would have been number one.  Neither went for anything like that.  Why?  Do clubs completely overvalue "blue sky" in recruits and do they give enough weight to a possible "bust" factor and do they give enough weight to the "certainty" factor of a known trade?

In general I'd like to hear him talk around this subject with reference to where in a cycle are club is and how that effects their thinking.

Bob - that’s some assumption you make about Hogan or May being pick one if they were in this year’s draft. That might be the case if you were looking at players on ability alone but they are not 17/18 year olds with raw talent and there are other considerations involved such as their age and their history in the game. 

Hogan will be 24 years of age when he plays his first game with the Dockers and approaching the halfway mark in his career. There are his injuries and illnesses to consider, questions about his attitude and some of the personal issues he’s had to confront over the past six years. Those considerations need to be taken into account in assessing his worth and, in terms of the deal Melbourne got from Fremantle: there was also his contract status that meant our hold on him would have been even weaker this time next year. In the end therefore, I believe that we probably got a fair market value given his determination to go to a state where there are only two teams and the other one is fairly well off for key players and didn’t have the salary cap room.

May is three years older than Hogan and while he has shown out as a leader with the Suns, I don’t believe he would go anywhere close to being a #1 in this draft. That said, I have reasonably high expectations of him but we were forced due to the situation to pay a little more for him than we would have liked. We did get our man and it remains to be seen whether we get value from the trade.

Let’s hear what JM has to say.

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21 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

I'd like you to ask Josh about the philosophy of trading on premise that "picks are grossly overrated".

If Hogan was in the draft this year he would have gone number one.  If May was in the draft this year he would have been number one.  Neither went for anything like that.  Why?  Do clubs completely overvalue "blue sky" in recruits and do they give enough weight to a possible "bust" factor and do they give enough weight to the "certainty" factor of a known trade?

In general I'd like to hear him talk around this subject with reference to where in a cycle are club is and how that effects their thinking.

There's no way May goes no.1 this year.

I rate him highly and think our team/list is more balanced with May over Hogan, but he wouldn't go near no.1.

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Given the somewhat recent shift in contracted players demanding a trade to their club of choice, I'd be interested in understanding how the club determines whether contracted/required players are comfortable at the club or quietly/actively looking elsewhere. It seems to me the Beams trade was flagged late and caught Brisbane unaware - how do we ensure we minimise the risk of being blindsided and negotiate best value for players wanting to leave. 

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I'd like to know if my assumption they will put a premium on foot skills and outside run in this draft period is correct.

He is probably unlikely to answer that question directly (or give a one word yes or no answer)so perhaps the question could be are we at the stage of filling needs (as opposed to best available) and if so what are those needs.

He might well say they will aim for both. Fritter was arguably the best available last year at that pick and absolutely met a need. A fantastic selection that they obviously targeted.

On fritter, he will be huge for us next year as he will have a second afl preseason under his belt and with may in the side and lever back he will surely play high half forward, where he belongs. Having him kicking regularly inside 50 will improve our entries enormously and this combined with his sure hands and accuracy kicking for goal will go a long way to offset the goals we will miss from Hogan.

Edited by binman
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2 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Bob - that’s some assumption you make about Hogan or May being pick one if they were in this year’s draft. That might be the case if you were looking at players on ability alone but they are not 17/18 year olds with raw talent and there are other considerations involved such as their age and their history in the game. 

Hogan will be 24 years of age when he plays his first game with the Dockers and approaching the halfway mark in his career.

1

Yes, it's an assumption and who knows who's right or wrong.  Hogan will be just 24 when the season starts next year.  He is a proven commodity tracking closely to the top tier of his position at a similar age, he has done the vast majority of his development and he is entering his best years.  Reiwoldt played until he was 35 and Jesse has similar physical attributes.  He may well have 8 to 10 years in him. And he plays a position that is the most difficult to have confidence around when drafting 18 year old.  I think he is worth no one but it's just a view. 

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

There's no way May goes no.1 this year.

 

 

Perhaps not, only (say) 5 years or so left is a short time span.  But he went for pick 5 which is close to the top of the tree.

I've been a blue sky junkie most of my life.  For a long time I've rated picks over players;  the hope of picking up that generational player.  But we've had so many misses and few successes.  And we are by no means the only ones to miss the rebuild.  I've seen DL kick and scream when we've picked up Melksham and Hibberd and I'm not sure if Vince was welcomed when selected.  I watched Roos pick players like Richards, Mumford and Jolly for "way overs" only to be proven to be correct.

I think human nature is to want to open the parcel to see what's inside but my experience is it's usually a disappointment when measured against expectation and hence my view that draft picks are very overrated. Good list management (trading) involves valuing picks for players.  If you overvalue picks you pass up on good players and good deals. Understanding value is critical.

I might be right and I might be wrong.  What I do know is Mahoney will know more than me and I'd love to hear the topic debated by knowledgeable people.  Mahoney's interview on DL won't lead to that debate but it's an opportunity to ask someone with the knowledge his view.

 

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10 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Yes, it's an assumption and who knows who's right or wrong.  Hogan will be just 24 when the season starts next year.  He is a proven commodity tracking closely to the top tier of his position at a similar age, he has done the vast majority of his development and he is entering his best years.  Reiwoldt played until he was 35 and Jesse has similar physical attributes.  He may well have 8 to 10 years in him. And he plays a position that is the most difficult to have confidence around when drafting 18 year old.  I think he is worth no one but it's just a view. 

Perhaps not, only (say) 5 years or so left is a short time span.  But he went for pick 5 which is close to the top of the tree.

I've been a blue sky junkie most of my life.  For a long time I've rated picks over players;  the hope of picking up that generational player.  But we've had so many misses and few successes.  And we are by no means the only ones to miss the rebuild.  I've seen DL kick and scream when we've picked up Melksham and Hibberd and I'm not sure if Vince was welcomed when selected.  I watched Roos pick players like Richards, Mumford and Jolly for "way overs" only to be proven to be correct.

I think human nature is to want to open the parcel to see what's inside but my experience is it's usually a disappointment when measured against expectation and hence my view that draft picks are very overrated. Good list management (trading) involves valuing picks for players.  If you overvalue picks you pass up on good players and good deals. Understanding value is critical.

I might be right and I might be wrong.  What I do know is Mahoney will know more than me and I'd love to hear the topic debated by knowledgeable people.  Mahoney's interview on DL won't lead to that debate but it's an opportunity to ask someone with the knowledge his view.

 

Agree with 90% of what you are saying here, but I really do feel like we have been short changed for Jesse, based on the hit and miss rate of KPPs in the draft.  A proven commodity should always be worth more than an unknown.  Just look at Josh Schache and Tom Boyd as two virrually failed top draft pick KPPs.  Yes we got May, KK and a little bit of loose change, but I recon that in the scheme of things:

1. Freo got a bargain;

2. We got somewhat short changed and;

3.  The Suns got completely shafted.  Basically they got pick 6 for x 2 top 10 club B&F players - one a pretty solid defender and the other a running player who has been a bit patchy for the last few years (like if we traded Brayshaw at the end of last year).  Pick six could be the next Lucas Cook, just an average on baller or a pretty remote possibility of being a superstar - more than likely it will be one of the first two.

I don't buy the injury doubt thing. Not only have Freo got a known commodity, but compared to a raw draft pick, they have also got a player with half a dozen years devopment already put into him and raring to go in his prime physical maturity for a KPP.

I still hold the view that free agency has skewed the system way too far in favor of players, because the club that recruits them doesn't have to give up anything with respects to draft value.  Would the Tigers have thought twice about Lynch if they had to give up their first and second round draft picks for him?

The draft has become broken as an equalisation tool when players can serve a few years on a list and then walk to basically anyone they chose to as occurs these days.

Edited by Rodney (Balls) Grinter
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14 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Agree with 90% of what you are saying here, but I really do feel like we have been short changed for Jesse, based on the hit and miss rate of KPPs in the draft.  A proven commodity should always be worth more than an unknown.  Just look at Josh Schache and Tom Boyd as two virrually failed top draft pick KPPs.  Yes we got May, KK and a little bit of loose change, but I recon that in the scheme of things:

1. Freo got a bargain;

2. We got somewhat short changed and;

3.  The Suns got completely shafted.  Basically they got pick 6 for x 2 top 10 club B&F players - one a pretty solid defender and the other a running player who has been a bit patchy for the last few years (like if we traded Brayshaw at the end of last year).  Pick six could be the next Lucas Cook, just an average on baller or a pretty remote possibility of being a superstar - more than likely it will be one of the first two.

I don't buy the injury doubt thing. Not only have Freo got a known commodity, but compared to a raw draft pick, they have also got a player with half a dozen years devopment already put into him and raring to go in his prime physical maturity for a KPP.

I still hold the view that free agency has skewed the system way too far in favor of players, because the club that recruits them doesn't have to give up anything with respects to draft value.  Would the Tigers have thought twice about Lynch if they had to give up their first and second round draft picks for him?

The draft has become broken as an equalisation tool when players can serve a few years on a list and then walk to basically anyone they chose to as occurs these days.

I do. Not because of any lingering concerns about the foot but because that's his second bone-related problem (that we know of) which appears to be stress-related. That suggests to me that he is player that comes with a higher risk of acquiring a future bone-related problem than someone who has never exhibited any bone-related injuries.

It's a bit like ACLs. The data shows that if a player has torn one ACL they are a greater risk of having another ACL injury than a person who has never had such an injury.

I hope Hogan plays completely injury-free for the rest of his career, but if I'm in the business of managing a playing list, I believe that he has a higher risk of injury than players who have not had the same injuries than he has had to date.

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I don't know if this one will get through, but have we really addressed one of our key areas in the trade period (Outside speed) by recruiting a player with a history of concussion injuries that is no guarantee to get on the park or re-gain past form? I'm all for taking the punt on a player with a massive upside like KK, but shouldn't we have looked for more ready-to-go outside pace in the trade period this year or last?

Given we were cut to ribbons by the Pies and Eagles, and probably got the speedy Dons while they were down, it might be worthwhile to make more of an investment in players who are ready to go, instead of relying on drafting young players like Baker to fill the speed quota who will take years.

I guess we just wait and see for the draft in a few weeks though, But there still remains a big question mark on our speed and an even bigger question mark on whether KK, Hunt, Stretch etc will be adequate...

Edited by John Demonic
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I would be interested in Mahoney's role in the coaches box.

Beyond this, his transitioning from coach to management - his reflections or thoughts on the matter. Does he still have an appetite for coaching (depending on his role in the coaches box). Does he enjoy the blend of footy and management? I believe he squeezed in an MBA in somewhere. Personally rate the guy very highly and, while I hoped he would get the CEO gig, I think he is perfectly suited to his role.

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A hell of a lot of groupthink that we need, believe we need and should be or are priotitising "outside speed" and "kicking skills".

IMO for better or worse it's far more likely that we will continue to prioritise contested football attributes above anything else and that we believe fast ball movement comes from winning the contest and gaining metres far faster than players can run.

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5 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

A hell of a lot of groupthink that we need, believe we need and should be or are priotitising "outside speed" and "kicking skills".

IMO for better or worse it's far more likely that we will continue to prioritise contested football attributes above anything else and that we believe fast ball movement comes from winning the contest and gaining metres far faster than players can run.

While I agree with what you've said, that's only relevant when we have the ball. In my view, our speed weakness is when we have to defend. We look very slow when other teams have the ball and stream through the centre. Having said that, I think sometimes it's a problem of being slow in thought (ie, slow to react) rather than physically slow. 

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On 10/31/2018 at 9:34 PM, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

like if we traded Brayshaw at the end of last year

I almost spat my chips when i read that, mainly because it could so easily have happened if it went the way some of our supporters suggested it could/should.

Yeah, a few on his board would have been happy to use Angus as trade currency at the end of last year. We might have got a mid-late first rounder for him if we were lucky perhaps? How cranky would we all have felt if we sold him for pick 10-15 and he immediately had a season like this one, but playing for another club.

Wouldnt it be epic if KK turns out to be as good as Brayshaw, considering he was essentially the steak-knives in the Hogan-May saga.

We may end up being very very happy with this deal, or it could be less than great if Hogan goes ape for Freo, and May/KK are just so-so.

Only time will tell but im really confident our people knew exactly what they wanted, and made the best of Hogan asking to go home.

 

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@Demonland I'd love it if you could spend some time on questions regarding the structure of the club, his role.

We have an executive (CEO), then we have a series of departments such as Coaching, Football Operations, List Management, Fitness and Conditioning (all of which would be considered the "football department" by some but are apparently independently managed groups which interact) as well as Marketing, Finance etc. (which I'm less interested in).

There are a lot of names on our staff list, many of whom we never hear about, but I'm sure they play important and valuable roles. It would be great to know more about how they interact to achieve success and how or by who particular decisions (inc. decisions to trade, recruit, draft etc.) are made. 

 http://m.melbournefc.com.au/club/people/staff-members

Within the public football supporting community (such as us on demonland) this often isn't clear,  and the media don't really help as they often just pick the public face and heap praise. 

 

Edit: I figure the "why did we trade Hogan", "are you happy working with Pert" and "are we interested in Kelly" type questions will get a lot of straight bat / standard public answers,  but questions on the above areas will allow Josh to elaborate in an insider way for the benefit of the listeners. 

Edited by deanox
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We'll be airing the interview on Wednesday Night 14/11 @ 8:30pm.

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PodcastThumbnailMahoney.png

We've conducted the interview with Josh Mahoney and will be airing it on Wednesday 14/11 @ 8:30pm

Listen and Chat LIVE: http://demonland.com

We'll also be talking about our 2019 Draw and any other Demon news.

Call: 03 9016 3666

Skype: Demonland31

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1 minute ago, Demonland said:

PodcastThumbnailMahoney.png

We've conducted the interview with Josh Mahoney and will be airing it on Wednesday 14/11 @ 8:30pm

Listen and Chat LIVE: http://demonland.com

We'll also be talking about our 2019 Draw and any other Demon news.

Call: 03 9016 3666

Skype: Demonland31

Anything super-juicy we can look forward to?

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