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Let's have a look at a few things. The vaunted Hawthorn/Collingwood fast movement style? Collingwood missed the finals. Hawthorn got there on a wave, very reminiscent of us in 2018, but got found out by what?: pressure, contest and defence. Goody believes that is what counts, especially in finals. He is absolutely right. Last year we went out in straight sets but lost both by a whisker with an absolutely decimated forward line; against Carlton it was really lost by a couple of dumb decisions right at the end. The list was built to this style and plan and it will continue to be the right plan. A constant theme is the "waste" of our list. In terms of players who ANYONE would rate (not the ones that we all absolutely love eg Viney, but established crème de la creme) we have had Gawn, Oliver, Trac, May, perhaps include Kossie. I flag, multiple top four finishes but a very disappointing year this year, with multiple reasons. Compare: McRae: Pendlebury, Moore, Hill, Sidebottom, J Daicos, N Daicos, arguably de Goey and Elliott: I premiership, 1 fail. Kingsley: talent everywhere but Whitfield, Greene, Green, Hogan, Taylor, Cadman (no 1 pick).... no flags. Scott: (of recent times) - Hawkins, Cameron, Dangerfield, Stewart, lots of others that we all hate, not to mention a HUGE home ground advantage, the suspicion of some very dodgy ways of paying players, and taxpayer-funded facilities off the highest level: 1 flag, fail the next year, jury's out on this year. Fagan: Neale, Andrews, McCluggage, Starcevich, no 1 pick Rayner, Cameron, many others and another HUGE home ground advantage: No flags yet, doubt if he'll get one this year. Etc etc etc We all see our list and love it and many think it is wasted, but really, it isn't. We have generally - even for the vast bulk of this year - been in the top level, competing with a real chance. The criticism is very largely misplaced.

A conversation I had this week with a current connection of MFC. started with I can say anything sorry, elaborated to: - Trac wants two of Roffey, Pert, Richardson gone. - Senior players disappointed with how Trac let it play out, his parents heavily involved. - We are chasing one of WCE forwards pretty hard (didn’t say which one) Nothing to ground breaking really…

@Vineytime never mentioned anything about it being an administration issue.. Clearly some players including Trac have a complete lack of trust in Pert and Richardson and that's been the noise over the past couple of weeks and clearly this is in line with the information VT is passing on. Pert and Richardson have a big say in what goes on in the football department which the players are heavily involved with. Clearly under their leadership, some of the off field matters have not been handled well at all which is why there's a current external review going.

Its been apparent for the last three years, even when we one the flag, that other teams are too big and strong. Crows, Lions, Roos are all big across the ground. There is no doubting the courage or determination of our players but they are constantly battling against far stronger opponents in the midfield. Purcell is a massive loss. Notice that Hanks, McNamara, Mithen and other tiny players are being expected to to win midfield contests. As skilful as they are, they get pummelled every week. I am in awe of their courage but it's going to wear them down. They also much less effective than they were in previous years because they are being expected to play the role that Purcell, Paxy and Daisy played previously. We threw Zanker into the middle a few years ago just to add some grunt. As it is, the ball isn't getting down to her in the forward line. I think Bannan is also wasted up forward. She is way more effective with her speed on the outside. Expecting her to develop as a tall forward is denying her the real weapon she has, which is speed on the outside. She is not heavy enough to be a tall contested marking option. ATM Kate Hore, our best player, is being asked to plug holes everywhere and other teams are working this out. Stop Her and you stop the Dees. Goldrick has been awesome but again she is punching way above her weight. I love Mackin and the way she has developed her kicking over the three seasons. It was very hit & miss but now she's kicking very smartly. Our recruiting team need to draft for SIZE and footy smarts. I know that's a statement of the obvious and is easier said than done. I agree that Mick's plan can look wonderful against a less powerful opponent but most of the other teams have gone past us now. Against North we fought tooth and nail and I am in awe of the courage and spirit displayed, but they are just TOO SMALL over the whole line up. PS I like the look of Pisano's footy smarts

“Hey Finn, I hear you like straight set exits… well, we have plenty of those where we’re from” Get it done Dees 😈

No West or Purcell in the middle is a huge loss Then Gay, Birch, Harris, Pearce etc Gonna be a rebuild year

What gets forgotten (or deliberately put aside) was that Petty, Melksham, JVR & Brown were unavailable. T-Mac was an almost total liability, yet played Fritsch was banged up and we couldn't use Petracca forward with the absence of Brayshaw We had no real structure, no KPF's doing what needs to be done etc etc So the replacement, D Grade forward line wasn't good enough. Stands to reason when the term D Grade is used to describe things in an accurate way Yes, we kicked inaccurately but that's what lesser players do (kick inaccurately) Petty, Melksham, JVR & Brown are all accurate kicks for goals, but they didn't play And yet, we very nearly won both finals ... we did well to get close

See zero issue with any of the re-signing. Bizarre that some are already writing some young players off already because they're not up to AFL fitness in their 2nd year in.. Sestan showed a clear improvement in his fitness levels compared to last year. Another full pre season and I can see him playing AFL games. AMW the same. He's had a taste of AFL action and will now know the level of fitness required to take that next step. Watch him come back in great shape. This was pretty much Verralls first full season in the AFL after missing a huge chunk in 2023. Another who should play AFL games next year after a big summer.

Some very clever puns in the last few days🤣. I have taken it upon myself as a connoisseur 😉 of all things related to Italian food and drink, to award a prize for the best. The contenders in no particular order are: The prize goes to @OhMyDees for Can wash it down with a Leoncelli Limoncello! Fittingly the prize is a virtual decanter of Luci's homemade Limoncello. ps I decided against awarding a 🍋 to the least deserving.

The strangest part is the suggestion of wanting 2 of the 3 gone. Well are they good at their role or not? If not, why want any of the 3 to stay? Doesn't add up to me.

I don't understand this at all. Firstly, why are there players within NGAs who are ineligible to be drafted under the NGA rules? How does that happen? Secondly, why is this only being reported now, as if it's a new thing when the journalist, Cal Twomey, said on X that it's not new at all? If it's not new, why did he just write about it? If it is new, why?

Agree with these points. By seasons end the following players were all in our best 23 (with the number of AFL preseasons in brackets): JVR (3), Turner (3), Howes (3), Mcvee (2) Windsor (1) and the Kolt (1). So more than a quarter of our best 23 with three or fewer AFL preseasons under their belt (and it's worth noting for end of season draftees, all bar disco in that list, their first preseason is not really a full one as they come into the system in November). When Burgess came to the dees i saw an interview with him (perhaps the same one you reference DF) when he said it takes three plus seasons to build a foundation of elite fitness (in reference to the challenge he faced getting us cherry ripe accross the board). And once that elite foundation is built, every preseason after that incremental gains are possible for each player and the team as a whole (presumably only if they continue to do the work) - that's to say they can continue build on that foundation year on year and the base is a bit higher every year (which is why a finess freak line Novak Djokovic can be fitter and stronger at say 32 than he was at 25). He also noted that it's not just aerobic (endurance) fitness that needs to be built, it's also anaerobic fitness (power and strength). And that most players are either natural endurance athletes (eg nibbla) or power athletes (eg tracc). So when they come into the AFL sytem (and through their career), will need an individual program developed for them that helps improve their relative weakness and enhance their strengths. So Mcvee, an aerobic athlete, could build an elite endurance foundation relatively quickly, but is probably one to two more preseasons from an elite power and strength foundation (and look out when he does). The opposite is true of JVR and Disco, both power athletes who will continue to get incrementally stronger (not to mention bigger as both will continue to fill out), but might take another one or two preseasons to build an elite endurance foundation. There's no doubt having so many of our best 23 with so few AFL preseasons under their belt had a significant impact on our ability to 'defend the ground' and run out games. The upside of that is we got senior games into those young guns and if they have great preseasons all will go up a level fitness wise, both in terms of endurance and strength. So, we are likely to get signficant natural improvement in terms of endurance and strength from a quarter of our best 23. Ditto for the five young players who just resigned who hope to become best 23. Of the five i have highest hopes for AMW as if he can develop elite endurance I think he is can become our Quaynor style small, medium defender, freeing Mcvee to be a Daicos style aggressive half back, occasional mid. And Sestan has essentially been given a chance to build his tank and realise his potential to become a very good AFL player (it's worth noting that this time last year it looked doubftful AMW would be able to do so). Add a pick 5 (by way of comparison Windsor was seven and the hawks' Watson was 5) to natural improvement in terms of endurance and strength from so many young players (not to mention the improvements in their craft experience brings) there's good reason to be bullish about the next few seasons. A rebuild on the run.

retires-ish immediately-ish

Haven't done a thread for a while but it's something that I've been feeling for a while. 2021 one of the things that we had going for us was that we were hard at the ball and high in pressure, particularly in the forward half. Since that year though I haven't felt like we've had that same physical edge to us, and adding to that I don't feel like we are ruthless enough or strike any fear into other teams. I look at our team and I feel like when things are getting tough, we get bullied. I hate bringing it up but the loss of Gus 5min into a final this time last season was a time for our players to raise that side to another level. Instead it looked like Viney was the only player genuinely flying the flag for a teammate and since this we've almost looked gun-shy. The way our players showed up to the QB showed we don't have a mean bone in our bodies, we want to play the game as gentlemen, and only act tough to save face at times. Kozzie plays the game on the edge and unfortunately gets suspended (personally I feel this latest one is OTT in suspension) but at least he gives a bit of mongrel. So to the point of the thread, how can we shift this mentality? How can we get an edge about us again? We've got an off-season to be able to make us a finals/premiership contender, and this is an area I feel needs improvement. I'm sick of seeing us look like the bullied kid at school.

One of the greatest deceptions ever pulled off was the Catholic Church convincing society that Mother Theresa was in any way remotely, a “good person”. She was in actual fact, a psychopathic grifter with a penchant for other people’s suffering. Anyway, as you were….

One of my grandsons was in St Kilda’s Under 15 NGA squad in 2021 when I believe the criteria were different to today because he wouldn’t fit the current requirements. I think it’s safe to assume therefore that Tairon Ah-Mu had already been accepted into the Melbourne NGA squad when the rules were changed and the club did the right thing and continued to give him the benefit of their program. It’s good PR and allows the club to retain goodwill with the player and his family and also would hold it in good stead if it lobbied behind the scenes for a change in the rules. I hope this is the explanation.

bit rough on people born in the great continent of antarctica and don't laugh, 11 people have been born there

Watch our 21 finals, we moved the ball beautifully, we were stiff as last year and now we’ve been overtaken by the internal ructions that it seems were always there. A good shakeup, some new faces, a good run with injuries and we should go ok next year. A lot depends on the fortunes of Oliver and Petracca and how they pull up.

I'm happy to see Goodwin continue but with a revamped FD (the review could lead to such a situation) But Simon needs to re-jig our game style. Nothing too dramatic but what is noticeable watching the finals, is how different the other teams game plans are The use of the corridor in particular and the play-on in an immediate sense from marks, frees & stoppages Leg speed and fast ball movement leads to players further afield finding space to receive. Or backing in a teammate in a one-on-one There are times to slow the game down a la what the Giants didn't do, but our game plan often centres around slowing the game down (too much)

Pace is a great treat, but IQ helps you find space and smart kicking will move the ball faster than run and carry always.

sshhh.

Because the asking price is our first rounder (plus more), which is pick 5 in a strong draft laden with midfielders, which we also need. The gap between what we get from Houston (28 years old) and what we get from pick 5 (18 years old) isn’t big enough to warrant the level of outrage you seem to demand of us.

According to the logic ( sic ) of some on this site, I make the following observations: 1: Hawthorn's year was a total failure. They failed to even make a Prelim. Their kicking for goal - Sicily's shot - is as bad as Melbourne's in their narrow Finals losses last year. There is internal strife at Hawthorn: one of their players goes to the pub before a Finals Match. The Coach must go. 2: GWS had another total failure year - they didn't even make a Prelim. The players are selfish and don't trust each other - the fatal kick off the ground when Hogan had a Free Kick owing. The Coach must go: the players dislike each other.

i'd almost prefer liam ryan speedy forwards who put it on the scoreboard and pressure defensively are the key part of modern footy it would seem

After everything you have said over the years, I can’t believe that we finally discovered a point at which you feel shame.

I mentioned Hannaford a little while back if we wanted to grab a small fwd later on. Guessing his form is lifting him up the rankings now and recruiters will be reviewing his tapes after kicking 6 against the Falcons. He’s on a tear at the moment, but has been good all season after starting the season in defence. The switch forward has seen him become a crucial cog in GWV’s run to the prelim, he’s really good one on one, has pace and is super competitive. Plays with real spark and one to watch come draft time.

We were keen on the Wizard last year, while not as highly touted, could Hannaford's speed, aggression and X-factor be an option for the presumed Nibbler compensation (pick 25...?)

Is it not possible to shunt off all the Peter Lawrence discussion into its own thread? Tedious.

Not a very nice view of the members rpfc. Keep them in the dark - feed them a different type of "bullplop". It's The Melbourne Way of Board construction. Working brilliantly for us at the moment.

We're really missing Hanks at her best too. She was devasting through the guts when she was firing but has really dropped off in the last 12 months. Zanker isn't using her strength and agro as well as she could either. Bannons off the boil too. With this young team, we need our leaders firing and there's a few who are just not in form at all. I love Mick as a coach, but I think it's a combination of factors that's just pushing us down the ladder at the moment.

Unfortunately the game appears to becoming more one of strength rather than open skilful ball movement. You could see that in the finals last year where even with a "full team" we were bustled off the ball. A great pity as our style was delightful to watch

Stinear’s tactics are mystifying to me. We’ve lost a heap of experience and class so we play a loose, run and gun, risky inside kick attacking style of play with little focus on our contest and defence. Especially given our skills are not up to it. Bizarre. As a result when we lose, we lose huge in a comp that will come down to percentage. He’s lost the plot.

Stingrays outclassed today. Hard to match the mids of the Dragons. ⭐️Harvey Langford. Again showed he’s going to be pick 1-5. Very good overhead. Wins contested footy. Kicks 50 metre easily. Reminds us of the Bont. Only knock is he’s defensive game. Zero tackles. Didn’t look interested in working hard without the footy. Such talented youngsters need that ability too. (Funny moment. Commentator saying he is “ likely to be drafted top 40, in fact top 30 or probably top 20”… touch of the Kelli underwood calls…!!!). ⭐️Cooper Hynes. Tough day but is a hard worker in close. Tackled strongly. Will be early second round pick. Dees might be a very interested team. 👏Harrison Doughton. I’ve seen him 4 or 5 times now and he has impressed. Mid sized onballer. Tough day versus dragons elite but he held his own. Good decisions. Competed hard even though overwhelmed.

It’s about balance. We’ve struggled to score for 3 years. An understanding of when to move it quickly is lacking, also our fwd line is so congested and our smalls are often not in the positions.

Was the Giants choke the biggest in football history? (in terms of big games) They just disappeared en masse and there was nothing unlucky about how they lost But they are largely anonymous up in Sydney so the recriminations will be mild. Imagine if it was the Demons, Pies or Carlton? Or Essendon! The Pies meltdown in the 1970 GF stands out

Murphy Reid will not be hyped up as much as the other top prospects because lacks outstanding physical attributes. But wouldn't surprise me if he ended up with the best career of the lot. Sidebottom/Pendlebury/Sam Mitchell level of IQ, movement, touch - a player Melbourne haven't had for as long as I can remember (maybe trapper back in the day). I think would compliment Windsor/Koz pace and Trac/Clarry contest very nicely

Cogito, ergo sum In the words of the great French philosopher René Descartes, "I think, therefore I am". This is a thought of my own. No inside information whatsoever - just reading a few tea leaves.

Update (1): The Herald Sun’s moderator decided not to publish the above comment. I wasn’t surprised but I don’t give up easily so I had another try. Update (2): They published the second comment (apologies to my wife for forgetting to identify myself this time). Update (3): I’m not going to give up on this one. Robbo used a poll on his site to claim there was some “mutiny” among Demon fans against Simon Goodwin when, as a senior experienced journalist, he would know that the poll does not support such a claim. He should apologise to Goody, the club and supporters. I’m looking at my options as to how best my objection to this should be made.

CAAARRYYYST IF I SEE PETTY ANYWHERE NEAR THE FORWARD LINE,NEXT YEAR I"LL SIMULTANEOUSLY IMPLODE- EXPLODE AND SPEW UP🤯🤮😱

Extending the trading of future draft picks to 2 yrs is the possible/likely catalyst. Haven’t don’t the maths but how the introduction of Tassie impacts future draft pick order would be interesting…

Not arguing that the season wasn't disappointing, but we had a couple of games Essendon, Carlton etc where I thought we had serious presence, when we went back to a more contested style mids season, we still had failures (obviously) but I did see presence. Lots needs fixing but even the close games we lost, there was heart and presence on display. I think more tune up than rebuild. Speed and Kicking on the shopping list for sure. Some people are blessed with tanks, those who don't, do need a few seasons, as was previously mentioned Tracc took a few, there was an interesting interview where Burgess explained this but couldn't find.

I agree re Fagan. I was rapt for him and I'll support the Lions for the rest of finals. Hope Fagen is holding up Cup at the end of Grand Final. I'll go and cheer for them the next two weeks seeing I can't cheer for us. I'd rather hear their theme song around the G as compared to the one I had to hear last year when final siren went.!

You’re asking someone to bother summarising 282 pages of thread because you haven’t kept up. It’s kind of a lot to unpack mate

Because his manager told me it was a Lukerative contract.

Some ridiculous arguments on this thread. As if having term limits aren't a good thing, which we wouldn't have without Peter Lawrence. The board could have accepted a number of positions without dragging it through the courts, which they eventually accepted anyway. Posters saying they don't want to hear from other candidates and therefore want a closed shop are truly staggering. This current board puts their mates in positions prior to elections when board vacancies come about and then lobby for them through official channels come election time. They've done it repeatedly. It's electioneering and is not only not best practice, it's not done by any other club in the league.

Basically, the only thing Trac has actually said throughout the whole affair is that pre-made packet spinach & ricotta ravioli from his good friends at Casa Della Pasta makes for a great post-workout meal, especially for elite athletes such as himself under pressure to perform while the light is still good. Is was then reported that his nonna thinks the MFC is obviously a very bad influence on her cherished angel and clearly hasn't done enough to protect his mental health. She's certain no one at Carlton would have let the situation get so out hand that Christian is now eating pasta barely fit for a dog.

I swear Houston will be 35 y/o by the time trade week gets here.

Just imagine if he retired then changed his mind. He could come back again. double sorry

I'm usually one for getting nice new shiny toys, but after our trades over the past 3 years, I'd rather we went through the draft and got a batch of 5-6 kids in the door. I would be more than happy with another couple of kids of the calibre of Windsor and Tholstrup. Watching the Casey team this season being filled with failed recruits from other clubs, and very little junior talent, I have more confidence in Jason Taylor than Tim Lamb/Alan Richardson.

i'd argue it took trac 5 pre-seasons, not including the one where he did his knee whereas viney came in-built with said tank so...depends on the individual? someone like tapscott could never build it, as an example