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Spud was so humble that when asked to carry the Commonwealth Games torch in his leg he sought out children with disabilities to carry it with him. Our daughter was one of the lucky kids chosen- this act proved to me what a lovely guy he was. Such a tragedy - my prayers go out to his family and loved ones at this time.

X-Factor and WTF-Factor rolled into one. what a player. love it

There's some amazing nonsense on this thread. Let's assume bringing him in doesn't kill our salary cap space (which, given he's almost a direct swap for Lewis and Garlett, it couldn't possibly). Is he better than any of ANB, either of the Wagners, JKH, Lockhart, Dunkley or some of the other fringe players regularly getting games with us? Of course he is. It's an utter no-brainer. If he's a walk up start at GWS, he sure as he is a walk up start for us.

Our players should be able to think for themselves and act accordingly. What are all the meetings for? Surely they can play footy without the need for a runner telling them what to do. It's not the under 12's. They don't do anything else apart from.prepare for the games and play the games. Footy IQ - not in abundance at the Demons. This year reminded me of the Neeld era where back then we just continually kicked the ball down the line of the boundary. The replacement model this season was to kick the ball without any purpose into a dysfunctional forward line. Rawlings comments are extraodinary but they make sense. I'm just shocked that such occurances can actually happen in a sport which is supposedly professional. Playing group & Coaching panel - Fail.

Funny. I'm doing a leadership course at work at the moment. It is the educational equivalent of having someone masturbate into your ear.

In which case, he should immediately have his Captaincy reinstated!

I am lucky to have a close contact with access to a lot of AFL statistics (the same data set the clubs generally have available to them ). I asked him to do some digging on the Dees' season, in particular looking for anything that would prove useful in helping us all understand where things have gone wrong this year. In no particular order, this is what he found: There's been a lot of discussion about injuries, and lately, Richmond and Collingwood fans complaining they have it the worst of all. The data says we have averaged 6.5 'best 22' players missing over the first 19 rounds of the season; in total we have missed 117 'best 22' games. Richmond have averaged 5.11 (92 total), while Collingwood have averaged 3.94 (71 total). This highlights Richmond's depth as stronger than both Melbourne or Collingwood - they've got guys like Caddy running around in the VFL while we have...JKH/Dunkley/Lockhart and Coll have Daicos/Brown etc. Looking at the round by round breakdown of this - you can see that this number (# of best 22 injured) correlates strongly with form. Richmond's injuries have improved markedly since the bye and their form has peaked. Collingwood's have been unlucky with injury since the bye and they have been ordinary. Of course we've been ordinary for the whole year... When you break this down by position it confirms what we know - our midfield has stayed pretty much full strength all year, but the forward and backline have had either 3.77 best 22 players missing on average (fwd line) or 2.6 best 22 players missing on average (backline). The impact on both ends of the grounds shouldn't be underestimated and suits the narrative of our year - unable to score, unable to defend inside 50s, but still ok at generating our own (pre-game plan change in the last couple of weeks). Goodwin keeps trotting out that we've had no continuity at either end of the ground - and he's right. I've attached these two breakdowns to this post. Don't pay much attention to sirswampthing's post highlighting that Collingwood have the most 'games played' on the injuries list. Break that out and 750 of those games are from players outside the best 22 / retiring (e.g Wells, Beams, Goldsack etc.). Misleading and clickbait for the biggest supporter base. Out of players who have played at least 10 games, Frost and OMac are the two who have cost us the most scores as a % of their turnovers. Frost is ranked 12th in the league (1st = a really bad thing), conceding a score 34% of the time he turns it over, resulting in 17 shots at goal (9 goals 8 ) directly from his turnovers. Omac is ranked 15th in the league, conceding a score 33% of the time. Bailey Fritsch has cost us the most amount of points from turnovers this year. His 66 turnovers for the year (ranked equal 94th in the league) have cost us 89 points directly, which is ranked 4th in the comp. We all love his skills; but his turnovers hurt us. We're better with him camped inside 50 and our increased efficiency over the last 3 weeks is in no small part due to having a natural forward like him back in the 50. In order of worst to best, the top 8 players who have hurt us the most and have resulted in an overall negative score from turnovers and intercepts combined are: Fristch, Omac, Frost, Hibberd, Hore, Brayshaw, Salem, J Wagner. Other than Fritsch and Brayshaw this isnt surprising; our defenders can't kick. Salem has had more ball than any of these guys but is 7th on the list; so he is the best kick we have in the D50 (other than Jones when he plays there). Conversely, the players who have generated the most scores from intercepts, while keeping their turnovers to a minimum, and to have played at least 10 games, are: Jones, Petracca, Gawn, Oliver, Viney (Surprising!), Lockhart, Hunt, Tmac, Harmes. James Harmes is the only player at the Dees ranked in the top 50 (49th) for average handball receives per game, which is an indicator of outside run. For context, Richmond have 6 players in the top 50; Collingwood have 8. Petracca is mostly accurate everywhere: he is 10.8 from set shots, 5.1 on the run, 4.3 from snaps, 1.0 from mark play on, 1.0 off the ground. 5.0 from <15m, 4.4 from 15-30m, 2.2 from 31-40m, 7.4 from 41-50m, 3.2 from 50m+. He's above AFL average in all these categories, with exception of 15-30m and 31-40m kicking, which is bang on AFL average. Harmes is not accurate from anywhere. He has 3.3 from <15m, an awful 2.6 from 31-40m and 4.8 from 41-50m. Against Richmond, 14 players had less than one tackle. This was widely discussed. However, it wasn't from lack of effort. We had more tackle attempts than Richmond, but went at 25% efficiency. Poor technique, not strong enough, lazy, mentally checked out, who knows. The loss of Hogan on Tom Mac and Wiedeman should not be understated. Last year, Weideman played 3 good games - vs. West Coast in Rd 22, then Geelong in the EF and Hawks in the SF. His opponents in those games based on most % of gametime were: Brad Sheppard (HBFer, not a KPD), Lachie Henderson and David Mirra. This year, Weideman has had 3 games of 'good' output, 2 pass marks and 6 poor matches. The 3 good games he played on: Jacob Weitering, Aaron Francis, Jack Watts. Decent names but not A grade defenders by any means. The pass mark games, he played on Darcy Moore and Tom Mccartin. The poor games, he played on Harris Andrews, Griffin Logue/Joel Hamling, Alex Keath, David Astbury, Nathan Brown/Josh Battle, Mark Blicavs. Basically, when he played on good or experienced opponents, he's not much chop. Now lets look at who Tom Mac towelled up last year on his way to 50 goals: Patrick Ambrose, Jack Carlisle, Rory Thompson, Sam Rowe, Myles Poholke, Jason Johannisen, Matt Scharenberg, Dougal Howard, Jackson Trengove, Josh Jenkins, Tom Barrass, Lachlan Keefe, James Frawley. This is a who's who of average defenders/mismatches save for Barrass and Frawley (dont ask about Jenkins; perhaps Tom went back that day? I can't remember). This year Tom Mac has had to play on Tom Jonas, Mark Blicavs, Phil Davis, Daniel Talia and so on. The only defender he towelled up was Liam Jones. His best games were against Jones, Oscar Allen, Aliir Aliir. This info is available to the coaching staff. If they haven't looked at this and realised that our two KPF hopes are not capable of playing on top line defenders and that we need a key fwd to take the heat off these guys, then you have to wonder what they are doing. Oscar Mcdonald has only had one 'good' performance this year - against Nick Blakey. He has been beaten by: Josh Jenkins, Shaun McKernan, Tom Papley (mismatch), Paddy Ryder and Josh Corbett. Frost has beaten: Tom Lynch (Rich, early on), Levi Casboult, Josh Bruce, Jarryd Roughead, and Jack Lukosius. Has been beaten by: Lance Franklin, Jeremy Cameron, Jack Darling, Jack Riewoldt, Eric Hipwood. Angus Brayshaw played 90% of his time on ground last year in the midfield. This year, that is down to 60%. He has spent 24% of his time on the wing, 16% in the forward line. Of our top 5 centre bounce attendees, Brayshaw was also our most effective centre square player we had last year across a number of measures: Clearance differential (19.4, ahead of next best Harmes 11.2), Inside 50 differential (18.8, ahead of next best Oliver/Viney both 12.5) and scoring differential (8.1, ahead of next best 6.7 Viney). Brayshaw was involved in 345 centre square clearances last year. This year he is down to 215. Forgetting the top 5 attendees for a moment, our best centre bounce player by a huge margin is....Jake Melksham. His clearance differential is 31.4, next best is Petracca (16.7), then Jones, and then to Brayshaw and the rest of the regular crew. Of course, Melkham's data is perhaps limited by sample size. Melksham ranks 17th in our side for actual centre bounce attendances, whilst Petracca ranks 10th. The two are our most effective centre bounce players. Brayshaw is one of our best; but he is being played out of position. There are of course weaknesses in all of these statistics - they never tell the full story, there are subjective categorisations applied to 'good/pass mark/bad' and 'best 22' - but I found some of the above quite interesting. For me, what stands out is that the FD thought Tom Mac & Weid were ready to replace Hogan's output, but the warning signs were there if they were to look at the data. We miss his ability to draw the best defender, his presence all around the ground, and his general offensive skillset. No use crying about it now; but given this data is available to the club I find it disappointing they sat on their hands and thought the forward line was sorted even with his departure. Discuss!

While you might be right, surely Todd didn't decide to buy a farm and start milking cows simply because he was tapped on the shoulder? Not exactly an overnight decision

I can see Clarko turning Frosty into an absolute beast running off Half Back, if he was traded. Frosty is big and athletic with the right attitude. The rest can be taught and Clarkson knows it. Goodwin, it’s time we got a Skills Coach into the the Club rather than under valuing what we already have. Frost is a keeper....

Or avoiding fan outrage on social media.

Call it that if you wish, but I did raise this (not on here) early in the season as a possible contributing factor for our poor form, but it was generally dismissed due to not being a significant enough factor, including by myself. In the end, I believe 2019 has been a case of death-by-a-thousand-cuts. No singular reason, but a combination of many factors. And if you keep doing the right things, and work hard enough for long enough, the wheel will turn.

Plonking the captaincy on Gawn isn't necessarily the answer either. We actually need 7 or 8 real leaders who are also automatic inclusions in the team because of their talent levels. In an ideal world. So we are a fair way off. There are players like Oliver & Brayshaw but both are too young. Lever maybe but he needs to stay fit and it's the same story with May. Maybe T-Mac but he often can't adhere to basic principles as a forward And leadership is not berating your teammates out on the field in an innecessary manner. In actual fact, those 2 incidents we saw this season shows up our lack of true leadership.

So in other words ... either our "game plan" was so complicated our players needed constant reminders of what they were trying to do .... or ... our players had no idea at all of what they were trying to do. Crikey ... gets a bloke thinking ...

I thought I would see Nat Jones handing in his captaincy by now. That would be leadership.

Clearly? Nope. Viney leaving by his own hand. CEO should focus on the business. If Pert is involved in somehow giving Viney a nudge, then we are in terrible, terrible trouble.

I may be wrong, but it could be because he hasn't played all of those 8 seasons at the same club.

Agreed. He’s becoming more of a cult figure due to his frostballness which I think is clouding people’s judgment.

I couldnt agree more Petty is no where near Frost at the moment

Like Geelong, the Eagles have VERY experienced and/or premiership players on every line.

The stupidity of this club knows no bounds. Anyone with half a brain could have seen this situation coming from a million miles away. Step 1: Parachute in two players on massive salaries who, on the rare occasions they are actually fit, arguably make the side worse not better. Step 2: Make laughably insulting contract offers to players who are actually on the field working their guts out each week. Step 3: Lose said players to rival clubs for inadequate compensation. I'd definitely keep Frost before Lever, and probably before May as well given May's age and inability to play 20 games a year. Losing Frost at this point would be a disaster.

Clarkson is a master. Frawley has always been a headless chook out of defence. Hawthorn structure up and work hard to give him an easy option. Clarko will also throw Frost on the wing and see what comes. Did Goody try Frosty on the wing so that chaos balls could enter I50 ? No. Oppo defenders knew exactly where the pill was going. But well done Goody for trying Jones and Lewis on the MCG wing earlier in the year. Absolutely inspiring stuff. Would need an interpreter to understand Mitch Robinson's piece on being a modern-day wingman.

Yes he is far from perfect but one of the very few players who actually improved their performances this year when most went backwards. He has been improving year on year for the past 3 years, learning to play to his strengths and limiting his weaknesses, eg limiting his kicks to 25m passes on the run out of defence most times. I believe he is still improving! Oh and we are screaming out for leg speed, so let’s move him on. I don’t get it.

Too funny. From an article back on the 14th of March. Wonder if we could have used those 6 weeks to teach guys how to kick at goal. MELBOURNE has spent the past six weeks feverishly "upskilling" its playing group in response to the new runner restrictions, co-captain Nathan Jones has revealed.

I see it as an indictment of the coaching panel that they had not prepared adequately for the "no runner" situation by developing alternative methods or by developing players to fill the on field role. Its too easy to blame the "system". How many messages does a team need? We performed poorly in other years when there were two runners so that is a feeble excuse. And how many times can we remember a message or a move making a major difference in a game? Surely there must be many situations that, even if not predicted, can be trialed with the senior players before the season and directions agreed to and implemented. For example, at the end of GC game, after we took the one point lead, it was TMac who responded and told the players to flood back. May apparently has the nous to fill the role down back (when he plays) and Tracca could surely be primed for the mid field even if he does not play there all the time. Clarrie is also seen to give directions and have game awareness. Get to work coaching panel.

Can't argue with this. Jones and Viney played 22 and 21 games respectively, and it's said that we lacked leadership. Proof is in the results. Without a doubt one of the many changes we need to make for 2020.

This is an indictment on our leaders and or coaching staff to use the players rotating through to pass on messages.

Surely yr kidding; Tomlinson is a clearly superior footballer to Frost

Would be disappointing if he left. I have no faith, trust or confidence in Lever and May playing a full season, and O Mac's not in our best 22.

A timely reminder that tomorrow ( Thursday 12th September) is RUOK day and for the blokes on here, its never been more important to speak up, ask for help or make sure you ask someone if they ROK? One pretty simple question it can make a difference.

I think seeing us pursuing both Tomlinson and Langdon, plus the potential of splitting our first pick for two slightly later picks and a player, shows that we know exactly what is going on and that we need to bring in further talent in various areas to combat that.

Funni cause I don’t think the MFC know what’s going on either.

Barassi brought in Barry Davis at North Melbourne in the early 70's and immediately made him captain. The rest is history. Free agency is now entering its 8th off-season in the AFL so every club (including ours) has had the chance to bring in A grade experienced talent. But to do so takes a lot of forward thinking not so much as opportunistic thinking. Davis went to North (along with Rantall & Wade) under the short-lived 10 year rule. We picked up Ditterich under the same rule. So, in effect, free agency has just replaced the old model. Yet he we are with a dearth of experienced talent at the club. Jones & Jetta are the only real veterans but both have questionable future's. Injury is a factor with Jetta whilst Jones is near the end. Older A grade players are often those who are also the leaders at a club. We don't have them and haven't had them for over a decade.

Manifestly we need to engage a focus group of committed stakeholders to progress ideas then set up workshops to actively implement the new direction consistent with these new values as conveyed by our updated modern mission statement!

Apart Frost taking the ball out of defensive 50, we never look like scoring out of our back half. Dinky kicks from Salem and co. end up running us into just as much trouble as one of Frost’s adventures. Aside from that, his speed allows him to play on the more mobile forwards and even allows him to play smaller if needed. Yes the offensive side of his game needs some greater control and care, but he is still a good defender. Frost may have looked well truley beaten at times one on one this year, but you can chalk that up to our mids literally just watching their opponents waltz into our forward 50.

For the love of... I can't believe how blinded some people are by Frost's 20m Dash. Sure, it looks cool, but close your eyes for the next passage (as so many of you do), as it'll be going over his head with interest. While I would like to keep him, if he wants more money than he's worth (and I'm not saying that some aren't on more than they're worth), than it's probably the best time to trade him as his trade value would never be higher at the moment.

The well known Frost haters have climbed out from under their rock with this news. They had gone to ground over the last 20 weeks based on Frosty’s performances which will see him B & F top 5 whilst highly paid others have been a total flop. One thing that must be realised is that the greatest footy club with the greatest coach in the history of the game are courting him. Also hear the Roos are also. Not sure I’d be coming out from under my rock.

Well actually you can...it's why top clubs buy in experienced free agents... ...but I do get your point. Our lack of good leadership/experience goes back a long way and we're still playing catch up.

Funnily enough I was listening to that podcast just a couple of hours ago. It’s an interesting take-away to conclude that he was blaming our failed season on the lack of runners. Rawling went to pains to point out that it’s a lot of different things, and detailed a few of them. To pick one in isolation like this is the media’s go, but it must have been a slow news day for the author.

Or the torpedo punts into the centre square from full back Or round 23 when he destroyed Brown Or the run and 2 handballs and one kick to setup a goal v Freo Frosty was one of the very few bright lights in 2019 ridiculous to low ball any contract offer

This doesn’t surprise me. I doubt he was talking about the beginning of the season so much as when it became clear that plan A wasn’t working and we started making adjustments on the fly to turn things around. Goody has said on a couple of occasions that he though that they tinkered too much with the game plan. None of that would have been bedded down and we were implementing it with a team down on confidence. Although the midfield group was fairly intact for the season both forward and back lines were in constant flux and often in disarray. In the forward line TMac played poorly in the beginning of the year and seemed to go into his shell, not that uncommon when poor form hits. When he did start to turn things around he got injured. Melksham was out most of the season, Weid was struggling, Hannan wasn’t around, there were a lot of youngsters effectively trying out without any real leadership around them. You knew there were problems when they moved Lewis down there to provide some leadership. In defence there was at least Frost, Salem and Hibberd as stable players but the structure around them changed virtually every game. Lever joined only later in the season, May was in and out as was Hore and Jetta. Teams tend to play best when players are able to play their natural game and the coach puts in structures to support them, that was a big part o f the Tigers turn around. Dimma realised he was over coaching and concentrating on what people couldn’t do rather than what they were great at. Look at how much better Fritsch looks in the forward line playing his natural game. When you try to force an unnatural structure onto people they need significantly more coaching and management, without runners I can’t see that working. Imagine if you tried building a game plan that forced Clarry to play on the outside? You would have to send a runner out every 5 minutes to remind him not to dive in and put his head over the ball. It is too easy and simplistic to just blast coaches and players for being terrible teachers and leaders. The truth is far more complicated, and improvement is not going to be about sacking all the on field leaders. It is far more likely to come from building a game plan that lets players play their natural game and simple rules and strategies to implement when things are turning against us. That allows everyone to be an on field leader. Having a stable team with key people on the field week in week out will also make a big difference, along with an uninterrupted preseason where they really embed the game plan and lock in player roles.

Why would Frost need to tour Hawthorn's facilities? Wouldn't they just say "we have them and your club doesn't".

I think so too 'Macca', my guess is that the game plan may have been too complex for the players. A lot of young coaches over complicate things, funny that the fill in coaches let the players play and results followed. Dimma let go a bit and let the Tiges play and finally got the results. We had a bunch of headless chooks running around and no runner would have fixed that. #lettheplayersplay

I wish someone would post the 'out on the full' kick he made after this tackle. It's a much more accurate representation of what he offers the team.

Goodwin started the year in the box before moving to the bench didn't he? And the McCarney problems. So there's coaching issues not just playing issues. Backline: No Lewis, no Jetta, no May, missing Lever for more than half the year. Midfield: We should've been better organised with Viney and Gawn here but the wings are the structural players and they were a disaster Forwards: No Melksham, Tom McDonald unable to get a kick for half the season. Coach subbed half way through the year The lack of continuity in players might have made it close to impossible for even Hodge, Hurn and Selwood to steer this years playing group around the park.

If there is a better free agent out there that we are not already chasing, please let me know. Otherwise, Just do it. The fact that he has been good enough to retain his place for 80 out of a possible 81 games in a team as strong as the giants, including a number of finals, makes him a class above a large number on our current list. Surely it’s a no-brainer.

We paid 3 first rounders for Lever and May. In 2019 Frost outperformed both of them. He also got on the park. It’d be a blow to lose him for two key reasons: 1 - He’s currently our best lock down tall. He’s also the only one who can get on the park, so he wins by default 2 - He has pace, which is a key thing we lack He’s by no means a perfect footballer or superstar, but he plays a role and is durable. That’s more than can be said for the majority of our players at this point.

I will tell you how I would feel, furious. If they want him ask for Mitch Lewis.

Imagine this team with no Frosty. About the only player we have with a bit of X factor about him and who i look forward to watching now. Heart in mouth stuff but at least he makes it interesting.

https://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/2019-05-17/rd-9-speedy-eagle-caught-by-frost

You do realise around that time the AFL put a stop on clubs using the points system to gain unreasonable advantage for academy/FS picks? The points system needs to balance or the AFL won't agree to it. The topic was about splitting picks or maximising trades.... Last year we swapped pick 28 for 36 and 46. Too early to tell, though I believe Marty Hore might've been included there. Not sure though. We also traded one player (Hogan) for May, KK and pick 23 (Swallow). May is a rock, Swallow has big raps from some. Hogan was always likely to leave, better to do it before becoming a FA. KK speculative steak knives The year before we traded Watts for 31 (Fritsch). Don't know about you but I'm pleased with that. And I could go on. Lol, like shooting fish in a barrel!