POSTGAME: Rd 15 vs Geelong

[640MD 2,897]

5 goals till 3/4 time then 6 goals 2

we had 2 goals a quarter what 2g 4 points in the last,

work out why we allowed those 6 goals 

and that’s why we lost

[chook fowler 18,332]

Very poor games by Max, Gus, Fritsch, Chandler, Petty, JJ and ANB. I can’t understand not playing Tomlinson or Bowza. I can’t see us being a top 4 side.

[The heart beats true 16,443]

5 hours ago, deespicable me said:

Thats it. We're done.

People will laugh and carry on about negativity but this is the first time this year I've posted such negativity because I wasn't sure until now where we stood. But once again Scott has shown us up as absolute pretenders.

As an example Spargo comes on and plays fake tough man and gives away 50 metres. He should have spoiled. How many times did Geelong spoil the ball. Thats tough. Not what Spargo did. But no-one will tell him off. If he spoils that ball like he should have, everyone gets around him and is energised. Instead he'll get dropped.

Look at Rohan. He was about as quarter as good as when he came across from Sydney and their coaches turned him into a good footballer. 

Tanner Bruhn in his 11th game for the Cats starred out of the middle.  

We'll win enough to play finals and may even look dangerous as we head into finals but make no mistake.

We are pretenders. 

That’s the spirit!

[dee-tox 4,828]

14 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Hibbo looked alright to me( but 3 goals by Rowan on a wet night isnt great) . 

Rohan had a hand in five of 11 goals for Geelong. That's shambolic.

[leave it to deever 16,007]

I'm glad that's over.

It's always a theoretical win pencilled in for the cats played in that hell hole in the middle of winter.

Let gfc build up their points tally down there , so we can laugh when they get smacked around when they have to play elsewhere. 

Without that bog of a home advantage the cats aren't that great. It's why they have previously bombed out of so many finals.

That said, there are about 4 Melb players that need to really pull their fingers out and focus on their performance. 

Oh and can we please buy just one big forward at the end of the year and delist Tmac ( the guy is burnt and crispy) . If Bbb doesn't get a game this season, then I can't see the point of keeping him on either.

Although, I'm starting to wonder what selection criteria is used at present, after an in form Tommo was replaced by an underdone Petty.

I think we need to drop around 3 blokes this week, for team balance and ego adjustment. 

 

Edited June 22, 2023 by leave it to deever

[beelzebub 22,264]

6 hours ago, Go the Biff said:

Good to see some getting on board the G-train. G for Greg.
 

Stafford has been taking money under false pretences for years. Even when we won a flag we did it spite of our forward structure & methodology rather than because of it.

I understand Stafford has to work withing the parameters of the overall game plan but his area of the ground is dysfunctional. And while I’m not a Goodwin basher by any means, he and his merry men on the coaching panel need to realise that “contest & clearance” are all very well but that only gets you the ball. The name of the game is to maximise the opportunities that “contest & clearance” create and get the bloody ball through the big sticks.

The only appreciable shift from 2021 is that our tall forwards now clump together in the goal square rather than the left pocket.

A direct result of this clumping is that it draws in opposition defenders en masse and leaves them having to defend an area roughly the size of a picnic blanket. We are an opposition Defensive coach’s dream. It’s like Stafford has drawn up a plan and showed it to Chaplin for approval. “Ooh yes I like that” says Chappy. Forgets to tell him why though.

Supporters often wail about our “bombing into 50” but the reality is that often they have no other realistic option. And that’s on our forward structure and method. Further to this I’m often infuriated by Trac’s long mongrel punts into F50 from the midfield but I suspect this is under instruction. We are far more concerned with being out-marked inside F50 than we are with actually marking the ball ourselves. So we kick long floating mungs in the hope of bringing it to ground and causing a stoppage than we are with forwards marking the ball.

Too often :

We press up too high leaving the “over the top” play the only way of scoring

We lead as a pack to the same spot or worse again, congregate at the same spot

We fail to get any separation which gives our forwards a chance at a one on one contest

We fail to have a small front & square of contests – and when we do they’re usually too close to the contest resulting them being tackled immediately on taking possession

We fail to lead towards the ball carrier

We try to take the back shoulder position on opposing defenders which allows them to control the contest. Rule 101 for forwards has always been play in front.

So – to the players.

I’m of the view that BBB is pretty much done. Not his fault but his body has packed it in. Watching him at Casey is almost sad. So barring a miracle knee regeneration, I’ve dismissed him from 2023 calculations. Likewise TMac. History shows that he takes a long time to find consistent form post injury & he’s no spring chicken either.

JVR has a ton of upside but he desperately needs support from another key forward. Not a ruckman masquerading as a KPF. You can’t rely on pack marks in an area that looks like Myers front door at opening time on Boxing Day. It’s not sustainable. We will kill this kid if we don’t stop asking him to play like the second coming of Doug Wade. He needs to be able to rotate out to CHF and sometimes HFF to get some space and some easier possessions. He also needs to pick his moments and lead rather than being a one trick pony.

Petty looks like he’s our best CHB but also our best CHF. He is rarely out marked and can take them as well. He was showing signs of understanding when to work up the ground as a connector before being injured. I’d persevere with he & JVR in the key posts.

Max should not come inside 40 from goal unless it’s for a ruck contest. We become too Max-centric when he’s deep & continually dump it on his head. He takes the occasional goal square mark but not enough to justify him being there. He also draws in opposing rucks and defenders, adding further to the cluster……

ANB has his role but he’s heavily flawed. He needs to do the basics well and for most of this season, his skill level has been poor and this undoes all the good work he performs. While he’s important to the way we play, he’s regressing to his old ways of being a chain of possession breaker. His last quarter on KB was superb. We need more of that from him.

Spargo had a bright start to the season but has been abysmal post concussion. Casey beckons

Chandler is bereft of confidence. Takes an age to make a decision with ball in hand. He also gets lost a lot. I believe his role needs clarifying to assist his positioning and a decent forward coach should be able to do that. In form, there’s a place for him and he can be damaging

Kozzie……has been out of form but showed some glimpses tonight. He’s another who needs his role clarified IMO. He’s trying to be too many things. I also think he needs to be released into the midfield when he’s “cold” down forward. He seems to lift the more he is around the ball and he’s one of our best users up the ground.

Smith is not a KPF’s backside. Anyone who claims he is on the basis of that pre season game where he kicked 4 clearly has never watched the game, just looked at the stat sheet. Tom Stewart tore him to shreds tonight by exposing his lack of forward craft. That said, he does have some characteristics that could be more than useful if we dispense with the “Spargo” role. I’m one who believes we have too many small forwards. Smith could do worse than to study (can’t believe I’m typing this) Garry Rohan’s game tonight. Smith has some similar attributes that we could build into a role that makes him an aerial threat while making the most of his speed and tackling.

Fritta while not without his flaws which many are quick to jump on has been a shining light. How he’s managed to maintain the level of productivity he has in this forward line is remarkable. Love to know what he’d be capable of in a decent set up. For a bloke who could sleep in the shade of a crowbar, he’s asked to do a lot of the heavy lifting. We’ve used a bit more of his delivery inside 50 this season which has been encouraging. I’d like to see him in a 3 way rotation system between the gaol square & the flank with JVR & perhaps Smith.

All of our forward woes are fixable and fixable in season. But it’s a bit like having issues with gambling or drinking. You have to admit you have a problem before you can effectively face it and deal with it. We seem to still be in the denial stage.

Apologies for the long-winded rant but it’s been bubbling for a few years now. Believe it or not I reduced this by about a third before posting. Don’t know how the likes of Binman & DeeSpencer etc keep pumping out those long posts. This has done me in !

Thought it might be cathartic but I’m probably more hacked off than I was when I started typing !

Just thought this should get another read.

Should be pinned somewhere. 

Our forward set up.is a shambles ....by design.  Designed by an [censored]

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,038]

7 hours ago, Macca said:

I'm not going to let the players off the hook by simply pointing at the coaches

Most of our forwards have enough experience to know what to do without needing to be told how to play their position

By the same token, we need so much improvement in the basics of forward line play that Stafford's directives are almost certainly an issue as well

I make these comments with a view of September in mind.  We're going to be playing finals but how well prepared are we going to be (up forward) when September arrives?

I'd be bringing Brown in but if JVR remains as well, one of the 2 will have to play away from deep forward you'd imagine

 

JVR - 11 games

Chandler -23 games

Smith - 30 games

Sparrow - 63 games

Kosi - 73 games

Compare that to what Jeelong put in the field last night. 

[leave it to deever 16,007]

Why did Goodwin go to all the trouble of playing Petty up fwd for so long and just chuck it in after he actually played his best game in that capacity and especially while Thommo was doing so well? Doesn't add up.

[pitmaster 3,064]

Simon broke his own rule of keeping to in form players: Tomlinson should have played back (although was probably omitted because of weather concerns), and Petty, if he was to play should have been forward. Smith is too easily out-bodied to be a key forward.

Spargo had a shocker on KB and should have been replaced. Bowey, a great user, should have taken his place and might just have improved forward connection..

[rpfc 27,590]

16 minutes ago, 640MD said:

5 goals till 3/4 time then 6 goals 2

we had 2 goals a quarter what 2g 4 points in the last,

work out why we allowed those 6 goals 

and that’s why we lost

We overcommitted trying to score ourselves. But that is just a symptom. The reason why we over committed is because the players were feeling the pressure of having the ball, dominating the contests and stoppages and yet we couldn’t get good looks and kick goals. So they crab walk forward hoping to get it done and then turnover or lost contest and slingshot and we’re stuffed.

When you play a press, one problem is in no way can you allow teams to get over it - it’s curtains - no one is on anyone and all the space is a funnel towards their goal.

[layzie 29,269]

Our forwards play like defenders. Waiting for it to come in and then impacting rather then making the movement themselves. It stinks 

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,325]

A few random thoughts:

1) The Tomlinson omission was a flat out terrible call from Goodwin and company. I would’ve understood it had Petty actually had an impact but all it achieved was upsetting a player coming off a near career best performance and have players questioning the selection integrity of the side.

2) there is a wild misconception around here and across the AFL community that Gary Rohan is a dud. Go and watch last years finals win over Collingwood and even last week and you’ll find that he’s a fantastic and dangerous third forward.

3) How often do Geelong actually lose at GMHBA. It’s the most dominant home ground advantage in the league and I can’t think of any other side that loses 1 home game a year on their turf. We were always up against it.

[Demonsone 1,634]

The Afl draw has seen us play the Cats 4 times since 2021 with once at the G in 21 & last 3 away… we’re is the fairness here???

Our fwd line has been an issue for years with 2 on the sidelines on BB & Tmac unlikely to return to any greatness. looking at the other top 8 sides all have gun fwds and we haven’t been able to attract any free agents. Yet it appears they have banked on Grundy & Gawn to fill the void.. Gawn yet zero goals between them, Pickett should have cleaned up last night yet looks badly out of form … 

[pitmaster 3,064]

6 hours ago, Deenooos_ said:

Geez the overreactions on this thread are truly ridiculous.

Everyone should know that today's performance wasn't us. We are up there with the likes of Collingwood in terms of flag contention. Even in our flag year between r12-17 we played some very bog ordinary games and we were nowhere near a flag, or so it seemed.

The season is long and we still have 9 home and away games to play. I suspect we will lose one of the saints or gws game in the coming 2 weeks but will find our run and form and finish the season off strong with a W/L of 17-6.

Our contest work and defence is still elite and our ball movement/offence has taken a hit, especially in the last 4-5 weeks but it'll come good. If you're worried about our forward line then look at us play at the start of the season. That's how it'll look come finals.

I agree, sort of, until I remember that this time in 2021 we were nursing Brown back and TMac could still be relied on. Now TMac is rehabbing from surgery and Brown is not within sight. In their place there is Smith whose much disrupted career means he lacks the physical presence of TMac and the forward craft of Brown.

Without a serious threat up there it becomes harder for Fritsch and (out of form) Kozzie to do their things. Hopefully we can fix a few things - Choco goes to town on Brayshaw's disposal, Bowey comes in (better ball use), and despite what Kate told a poster, (see above) Petty goes forward.

[Bystander 887]

9 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

I assume Jefferson is still a few years off? We desperately need a quality marking forward who hits the scoreboard. It’s a real shame Larkey re-signed at North as he would’ve been perfect. Are there any other realistic options out there? Himmelberg is not worth 900k so he’s out.

Jefferson a long way off...nowhere near AFL ...but to be fair is improving.

Needs to add 10 kg for a start.

[dazzledavey36 49,001]

22 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Why did Goodwin go to all the trouble of playing Petty up fwd for so long and just chuck it in after he actually played his best game in that capacity and especially while Thommo was doing so well? Doesn't add up.

Because it's Simon.

[Bystander 887]

52 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Is she a chance at CHF next week? No Phil Davis, so an opportunity to blood. 

Surely she didn't say that ?!?! She must have attended the Jeff Kennett school of football presidency. Butt out.

[Engorged Onion 9,392]

I for one, am appreciative of the players for putting on entertainment for me (I was at the game) on a cold a miserable night, whilst most of us sat at home nicely snug and warm.

After the 3rd goal in the final quarter... they shut up shop.

I can cop a loss at Kardina Park, particularly when there was only marginally fewer scoring shots differential.  Again, it's a marathon, and personally I am not concerned about a loss down here.

Some broad thoughts

Blicavs is fantastic

Gawn looked hampered all night

Goal kicking... it'll happen, though it doesnt feel like it will happen soon enough.

This match is not reflective of matches played in September.

Bahn Mi rolls were tasty.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Engorged Onion

[Macca 16,173]

1 hour ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

JVR - 11 games

Chandler -23 games

Smith - 30 games

Sparrow - 63 games

Kosi - 73 games

Compare that to what Jeelong put in the field last night. 

Players learn how to play in front and kick straight at junior level.  As well as putting their bodies on the line

Our forwards are soft and prefer it bruise free ... you left out Fritsch, Gawn & ANB so leaving 3 forwards out of the duscussion is disingenuous

Edited June 22, 2023 by Macca

[Jaded No More 58,635]

We’ve lost that magical ability we had in 2021 to win in different ways and arrest momentum. We used to just find ways to win. Now we seem to find ways to lose. 
 

We dominated for 2 quarters. But our domination lead to nothing while they dominated for 1 quarter (first quarter was fairly even) and piled on 6 goals in the wet. 

[layzie 29,269]

4 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I for one, am appreciative of the players for putting on entertainment for me (I was at the game) on a cold a miserable night, whilst most of us sat at home nicely snug and warm.

After the 3rd goal in the final quarter... they shut up shop.

I can cop a loss at Kardina Park, particularly when there was only marginally fewer scoring shots differential.  Again, it's a marathon, and personally I am not concerned about a loss down here.

Some broad thoughts

Blicavs is fantastic

Gawn looked hampered all night

Goal kicking... it'll happen, though it doesnt feel like it will happen soon enough.

This match is not reflective of matches played in September.

Bahn Mi rolls were tasty.

All this is true and I'm aiming for this attitude but it's so much easier to just complain until you run out of energy and fall asleep. That's the MFCSS way. 

[poita 3,667]

You know you are watching Melbourne play when:

- the coach picks the same tired, old players each week, regardless of how underdone or out of form they are, and ignores those who are performing in the VFL.

- the sub is a one position midget who is totally unable to impact the game (on an unrelated issue, well done to Charlie Spargo for achieving negative metres gained in his 21% game time). 

- the goal kicking accuracy is south of 40%.

- the team lines up with 175cm players across the half forward line, all manned by opponents 10cm taller.

- (excluding Fritsch), no forwards lead at the ball carrier and all play from behind.

- the team would prefer to have 8 handpasses sideways and backwards before snapping under pressure, rather than kicking at goal at the first opportunity.

- both wingers are midgets who struggle to kick over a jam jar.

- players call for one metre handpasses, even when under pressure and facing away from goal, instead of making a shepherd or block to release a teammate.

- the captain spends more time on the ground pleading for free kicks than attacking the football.

- two supposedly elite ruckmen tap the ball to anywhere other than their teammates at centre bounces.

- centre clearances, as rare as they are, travel further upwards than forwards.

- the wetter the conditions, the more team wants to handpass in circles whilst the opposition kicks off the ground and moves the ball forward any way possible.

- defenders refuse to guard the opposition goal square.

- kick outs go to the same area of the ground 95% of the time.

- the side collapses when put under any sort of pressure in the final quarter.

[dice 566]

8 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

Jaded, I was at a function tonight in Sydney where our Pres attended and had a talk at half time. She made an interesting comment about Petty and Tomlinson. A pretty brutal one actually. She stated that the club really rate Petty playing in defence. He was only playing forward because there was no one else. Also said that Petty will be playing in defence in the finals. Tomlinson won’t be playing in September.

If that was really said (which I strongly doubt), what a stupid bloody comment from someone who has never played football. Anything can happen from here to September. And based on Petty's absolute shocker last night and Tommo's excellent game against the league leaders (only to be dropped), she might want to think about keeping her thoughts on team selection to herself

[picket fence 15,366]

10 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

The team selections was the start of a bizarre domino effect.

Selecting a completely underdone Petty who's missed 6 weeks of footy and not made to go through the VFL over an in form player in Adam Tomlinson is an absolute disgrace. This selection completely stifled our defence which has looked it's best the last few weeks. 

Not only that, we keep a very vanilla player in James Jordon who btw has hopefully played his last game for the dees (needs to look elsewhere) in the team over Jake Bowey who would have added speed, kicking skills and metre gain in the wet.

To make matters worse, he selects Charlie [censored] Spargo as a sub who was absolutely ineffective. The role of the sub is to use your players that come in and make a significant impact, not select slow midget small forwards. 

Why does Goodwin feel he needs to play the same players every single week when they're either badly out of form or not made to earn their spot? This is deja vu from last year. Playing the same boring soliders once again and not rewarding form.

Onto the game:

The forward set up tonight was an absolute mess. We reverted back to our old ways of just bombing it onto the heads of Pickett, Chandler and ANB who were playing on much taller defenders.  We had no tall forward as last get out kick. I'm done with Stafford, he needs to go.

We tried to play too cute in the wet. I was tearing my hair put that we were trying all these Hollywood handballs whilst Geelong played the percentages and just got the ball forward as quick as possible. Our ball movement was incredibly slow in wet conditions. 

I love Hibberd, but lets be realistic, he got taught a lesson by Gary [censored] Rohan.. thanks Hibbo, but retirement is coming your way at the end of the year.

Brayshaw is a turnover slob

ANB is a 🥔 in the wet and high pressured games. Just handed all the momentum to them on a platter.

Very disappointing performance. They were missing Dangerfield, Cameron and Guthrie and we still could beat them.

Agree with everything, but most shizzenhuisingly was Rohnot playing his career best game! Would like to see 5 or 6 changes next week but Goody will STILL play favourites and persist with his gameplans

Edited June 22, 2023 by picket fence

[layzie 29,269]

43 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Just thought this should get another read.

Should be pinned somewhere. 

Our forward set up.is a shambles ....by design.  Designed by an [censored]

It really should be pinned, will get a few votes in the postlow award come end of year. Go The Biff should write like this more!