POSTGAME: Rd 15 vs Geelong

[Macca 16,173]

8 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

Good grief.

You're looking in the wrong area when our real issues are up forward and have been for an age

Our forwards like it on their own terms and haven't been able to step up when our midfield and/or our defence is not at their best

Every loss we have sees the same glaring issue - forward line

How can you not see that?  Are you watching the game properly?

[The heart beats true 16,322]

Lots of criticism of the players for not doing the little things right, not much criticism of the club for making our season harder and playing a home game in Alice this week.

This season will be defined by the little things. Why travel when we don’t have to, especially when we haven’t traveled well all year?

Brisbane, Essendon, Port, Geelong away losses. Why are we risking this again?

[Jaded No More 58,342]

I will continue to bang on that we needed to bring Bowey back and not drop Tomlinson.

Carlton and Geelong have a very similar forward dynamic. Hawkins an McKay big bodies who play deep, Cameron and Curnow mobile athletic and play high, and a third mid sized tall in Rohan/ Silvagni.

We played May and Tomlinson against Carlton and kept them to a very low score in dry conditions. Yes I concede that Carlton are trash and Geelong in Geelong is, well, Geelong in Geelong.

But why do we continue to [censored] around with really important structural positions? 

It's fine to rotate guys at half back, half forward, hell even in the middle. But our spine is all over the shop and we have not gotten it right since Tmac and BB broke down. 

[D Rev 257]

4 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Lots of criticism of the players for not doing the little things right, not much criticism of the club for making our season harder and playing a home game in Alice this week.

This season will be defined by the little things. Why travel when we don’t have to, especially when we haven’t traveled well all year?

Brisbane, Essendon, Port, Geelong away losses. Why are we risking this again?

For the ca$h

[Colm 1,477]

With hindsight dropping Tommo for Petty didn’t have the impact Goody must have thought it would have. But Pettys role would have changed as soon as Cameron went off. 
Goody clearly thought he was better suited to run with Cameron than Tommo. Whether that due to being more agile in the wet conditions or what I don’t know. 
Petty didn’t have a great game but he wasn’t doing the role he was selected for. 

[Jaded No More 58,342]

Just now, Colm said:

With hindsight dropping Tommo for Petty didn’t have the impact Goody must have thought it would have. But Pettys role would have changed as soon as Cameron went off. 
Goody clearly thought he was better suited to run with Cameron than Tommo. Whether that due to being more agile in the wet conditions or what I don’t know. 
Petty didn’t have a great game but he wasn’t doing the role he was selected for. 

The second Cameron came off, we needed to thank our lucky stars and swing Petty forward. Instead we did nothing, despite them losing arguably their best player!

[Colm 1,477]

Spargo didn’t do great as the sub either but I was honestly happy to see him coming on.  Normally uses the footy well and is clean even in wet conditions. Not traits that you would associate with Harmes who others feel should have been the sub. 

[DEE32 61]

26 minutes ago, Macca said:

Gawn up forward isn't working. He should have a real presence but doesn't. 

Doesn't get to enough contests and isn't playing in front.  It looks like he is cruising

On another note twice last night Brayshaw kicked the ball to a player calling for it (just making position is calling for it) and both times the players calling for it gave up on the play

The first time Rivers should have shielded the ball from the Cats player coming in from the side but didn't.  A soft effort and he didn't want contact

The 2nd time the ball was directed at Petty late in the game and Petty did not even make a contest.  Completely gave up on the play.  Super-soft effort

Yet people here want to blame Brayshaw?  Astonishing lack of knowledge

A point well made! I have never seen a side squib so many contests or not want to halve contests. Brayshaw took the kicks a lot of us are wanting to see. Many lament the boring system. The non attempts for mark in the 50 was astounding. Would be nice if Hunter took possession of the ball, as well as Kozzy, and stop doing the cheap non tuff hits after opposition get off a kick. And the shoosh should Be banned!!

[Colm 1,477]

2 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

The second Cameron came off, we needed to thank our lucky stars and swing Petty forward. Instead we did nothing, despite them losing arguably their best player!

Yeah I said this exact thing to my partner while Cameron was getting treated on the pitch. 

[KingDingAling 3,613]

1 hour ago, poita said:

You know you are watching Melbourne play when:

- the coach picks the same tired, old players each week, regardless of how underdone or out of form they are, and ignores those who are performing in the VFL.

- the sub is a one position midget who is totally unable to impact the game (on an unrelated issue, well done to Charlie Spargo for achieving negative metres gained in his 21% game time). 

- the goal kicking accuracy is south of 40%.

- the team lines up with 175cm players across the half forward line, all manned by opponents 10cm taller.

- (excluding Fritsch), no forwards lead at the ball carrier and all play from behind.

- the team would prefer to have 8 handpasses sideways and backwards before snapping under pressure, rather than kicking at goal at the first opportunity.

- both wingers are midgets who struggle to kick over a jam jar.

- players call for one metre handpasses, even when under pressure and facing away from goal, instead of making a shepherd or block to release a teammate.

- the captain spends more time on the ground pleading for free kicks than attacking the football.

- two supposedly elite ruckmen tap the ball to anywhere other than their teammates at centre bounces.

- centre clearances, as rare as they are, travel further upwards than forwards.

- the wetter the conditions, the more team wants to handpass in circles whilst the opposition kicks off the ground and moves the ball forward any way possible.

- defenders refuse to guard the opposition goal square.

- kick outs go to the same area of the ground 95% of the time.

- the side collapses when put under any sort of pressure in the final quarter.

Yep. I’d love to see what a good coach could do with this list.

[Katrina Dee Fan 2,480]

I'm not feeling particularly happy today.  

[Macca 16,173]

3 minutes ago, DEE32 said:

A point well made! I have never seen a side squib so many contests or not want to halve contests. Brayshaw took the kicks a lot of us are wanting to see. Many lament the boring system. The non attempts for mark in the 50 was astounding. Would be nice if Hunter took possession of the ball, as well as Kozzy, and stop doing the cheap non tuff hits after opposition get off a kick. And the shoosh should Be banned!!

I don't like the shoosh.  Arrogant and entitled.  Needs to go. Now

And Brayshaw takes chances which is required.  Go down the line Neeld-style and the Cats will simply punch it out of bounds and we lose possession

As previously stated, you call for the ball, you get it.  Rivers & Petty both gave up when the ball was kicked their way from Brayshaw.  And they both called for the ball (by default by simply making position)

But it's our forward line that continually lets us down.  They don't step up when it gets hard

Midfielders delivery can be better but we don't offer multiple leads up forward.  We are lazy and need it gilt-edged

Our best forward in terms of leading patterns and making position is a midget (Spargo) ... but that doesn't work because he is too small

[Lord Travis 10,184]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

This, 24-46 last 3 games.

What is going on?

 

That's not even including the missed shots! 

The past 4-5 matches our accuracy has tanked to become worst in the league again. The whole forward line needs an overhaul but unfortunately we just don't have the players on the list to fix it.

[Redleg 37,780]

25 minutes ago, Macca said:

You're looking in the wrong area when our real issues are up forward and have been for an age

Our forwards like it on their own terms and haven't been able to step up when our midfield and/or our defence is not at their best

Every loss we have sees the same glaring issue - forward line

How can you not see that?  Are you watching the game properly?

That is true, but delivery is also poor.

There were several chip kicks into the F50 available last night, which were continually ignored. I don’t understand why. We then bomb and are out marked.

Forwards not leading or making space is another big problem. They seem to always start behind and then fail to at least spoil.

Our small forwards are putrid atm and are continually beaten and out marked by taller defenders.

 

[Redleg 37,780]

24 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

The second Cameron came off, we needed to thank our lucky stars and swing Petty forward. Instead we did nothing, despite them losing arguably their best player!

That would be the supporters fault, as you are not allowed to criticise a Premiership Coach/Coaching Panel.

[leave it to deever 15,832]

10 minutes ago, Macca said:

don't like the shoosh.  Arrogant and entitled.  Needs to go. Now

Maybe after the game when it's won.

A bit like the recent  tail enders cricket quote.

These things come back and bite you. kozzie needs to do more than just make gestures to the crowd. And while he kicked to very good goals hasn't been over performing.

 

[Macca 16,173]

9 minutes ago, Redleg said:

That is true, but delivery is also poor.

There were several chip kicks into the F50 available last night, which were continually ignored. I don’t understand why. We then bomb and are out marked.

Forwards not leading or making space is another big problem. They seem to always start behind and then fail to at least spoil.

Our small forwards are putrid atm and are continually beaten and out marked by taller defenders.

 

The midfielders delivery is dependant on forwards creating separation and leading up to the ball carrier

We don't do that so the midfielders (under pressure) often has no other choice but to kick long to deep forward

We need 2 key forwards who can lead the way (JVR needs time and he is not guaranteed to be a success)

[Macca 16,173]

9 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Maybe after the game when it's won.

A bit like the recent  tail enders cricket quote.

These things come back and bite you. kozzie needs to do more than just make gestures to the crowd. And while he kicked to very good goals hasn't been over performing.

 

I don't like to see the shoosh anytime.  Just don't do it should be the instruction

Getting your mind on your role should be the message.  Over-celebrating makes me cringe

Must be a millennium thing

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

Not going to write of our season but sheesh, we have some concerns! 

Really believe this one was lost with some bizarre coaching decisions.

We have not used a "horses for courses" approach very much over last few years.  Players in form should be rewarded by continued selection when they are in good form.   Conversely if they are out of form for extended periods, they need to be dropped.

Dropping Tomlinson off one of his best games was just flirting with disaster...There were about 10 guys ahead of him that could/should have been dropped before him.  !00% this sends wrong message to the entire list about rewarding performance. Not the First time he has been dropped off good performances either.

We replace him with Petty after a 6 week lay off?  Who by all accounts had just played his best half as a forward before he got injured?  We throw Max forward, Petty back and drop Tomlinson who was really starting to gel in the backline.    

The blueprint on how to beat Tom Stewart was out there from Port the previous week...Yet we did nothing of the sort and let him intercept freely all day long.  It is actually gobsmacking how arrogant our coaching department/Goodwin are in these regards.  We seem to want to win or lose in our own "unique" way.  Just ignore what other teams have done successfully and try and bash them into submission with a gameplan that that is barbaric at best.

Our forward line is constantly set up to make the forward 50 some impregnable zone where we just simply are zoning and not trying to win the ball.  It is massively flawed and i can see why we don't score currently.  It is way too crowded and some players need to work from outside that arc.   Throwing Max /Grundy forward just crowds things even more.

*insert forwards coach...Why did we not even look at guys like Stevie J when he was available i am not sure.  Stafford is a ruck coach that has virtually no clue when it comes to our forward craft.  

Before it is too late and our season crumbles, i would switch either Yze/Williams to forwards coach, and hopefully tactically we might offer some set ups that look beyond what they currently are...Watched an under 14's game last weekend and seriously they had a vastly superior structure.

Coaching department needs to massively step up.  Clarity on roles would be a great start!  Can't fix it all at once but steps need to be taken.

[pitmaster 3,064]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Ha ha!

No just someone who obviously sees the whole game better than you do

Try watching without anyone in the gun one time.  You might then see what our overall issues are

Your Brayshaw bashing is churlish & childish

 

Don't want to get between you and those with whom you might have enduring arguments except to say that every week under (comparatively) little pressure Gus will send a couple of spearing 40 metre passes in the general vicinity of team mates only to put it directly down the throat of an opposition player. Alternatively, an attempted switch will put a team mate under the hammer in the manner of TMac in his old time defender days.

I'm not bashing the bloke but it worries me that he has not been able to work this out of his game.

[OhMyDees 1,321]

Mufasa FC 

All our losses were gettable wins except perhaps the Bombers game. It’s peak. 

[leave it to deever 15,832]

19 minutes ago, Macca said:

The midfielders delivery is dependant on forwards creating separation and leading up to the ball carrier

We don't do that so the midfielders (under pressure) often has no other choice but to kick long to deep forward

We need 2 key forwards who can lead the way (JVR needs time and he is not guaranteed to be a success)

I see Jvr as more as at good chf.

My kingdom for a 6.6 big bodied full forward.

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,875]

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

I will continue to bang on that we needed to bring Bowey back and not drop Tomlinson.

Carlton and Geelong have a very similar forward dynamic. Hawkins an McKay big bodies who play deep, Cameron and Curnow mobile athletic and play high, and a third mid sized tall in Rohan/ Silvagni.

We played May and Tomlinson against Carlton and kept them to a very low score in dry conditions. Yes I concede that Carlton are trash and Geelong in Geelong is, well, Geelong in Geelong.

But why do we continue to [censored] around with really important structural positions? 

It's fine to rotate guys at half back, half forward, hell even in the middle. But our spine is all over the shop and we have not gotten it right since Tmac and BB broke down. 

I was suprised that we dropped Tommo, would have to expect it was conditions related.

If Petty has trained as a Forward all pre season why wouldn’t you keep him down there?

[layzie 29,087]

9 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Not going to write of our season but sheesh, we have some concerns! 

Really believe this one was lost with some bizarre coaching decisions.

We have not used a "horses for courses" approach very much over last few years.  Players in form should be rewarded by continued selection when they are in good form.   Conversely if they are out of form for extended periods, they need to be dropped.

Dropping Tomlinson off one of his best games was just flirting with disaster...There were about 10 guys ahead of him that could/should have been dropped before him.  !00% this sends wrong message to the entire list about rewarding performance. Not the First time he has been dropped off good performances either.

We replace him with Petty after a 6 week lay off?  Who by all accounts had just played his best half as a forward before he got injured?  We throw Max forward, Petty back and drop Tomlinson who was really starting to gel in the backline.    

The blueprint on how to beat Tom Stewart was out there from Port the previous week...Yet we did nothing of the sort and let him intercept freely all day long.  It is actually gobsmacking how arrogant our coaching department/Goodwin are in these regards.  We seem to want to win or lose in our own "unique" way.  Just ignore what other teams have done successfully and try and bash them into submission with a gameplan that that is barbaric at best.

Our forward line is constantly set up to make the forward 50 some impregnable zone where we just simply are zoning and not trying to win the ball.  It is massively flawed and i can see why we don't score currently.  It is way too crowded and some players need to work from outside that arc.   Throwing Max /Grundy forward just crowds things even more.

*insert forwards coach...Why did we not even look at guys like Stevie J when he was available i am not sure.  Stafford is a ruck coach that has virtually no clue when it comes to our forward craft.  

Before it is too late and our season crumbles, i would switch either Yze/Williams to forwards coach, and hopefully tactically we might offer some set ups that look beyond what they currently are...Watched an under 14's game last weekend and seriously they had a vastly superior structure.

Coaching department needs to massively step up.  Clarity on roles would be a great start!  Can't fix it all at once but steps need to be taken.

The Stewart thing annoys me the most, even more so thing bringing Petty back in. The number of coast to coast scoring chains that he started were hard watching.

The real bummer sometimes to our system based approach is that we won't go for the hard tag or other bold move when it may be necessary. That's fine but if we are backing our system in to win the ball back then it requires enough good decision making and clinical execution once we do win it back. Otherwise we are just hamster wheeling it. 

[dazzledavey36 48,912]

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

The second Cameron came off, we needed to thank our lucky stars and swing Petty forward. Instead we did nothing, despite them losing arguably their best player!

We swung Petty with 5 minutes to go in the last.

Absolute panic station from Goodwin once again when the game was pretty much out of reach.

Incredibly slow to react to the situation is Goody.