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9 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Was he?

He got only 6 Brownlow votes for the games before injury.   Without checking I'm not sure he got many BOG coaches votes prior to injury.

The reports about him leaving hospital, going for a run, self tattooing, going to an outside physio aren't examples of a team player. 

A lot has changed since 2021.  Then he adopted for himself the motto 'to be a better teammate'.  By various accounts that hasn't been the case in more recent times. 

His stats pre injury

Round 1: 37 and a goal

Round 2:  25 and 2 goals

Round 3: 34

Round 4: 41 in that shocking loss to Essendon

Round 5: 31 and a goal

Round 6: 37

Round 7: 28

Round 8: 34 and a goal

Round 9: 30 against Port playing the last quarter with an injured hamstring. 

He was on 38 votes in the coaches award by round 10 

I understand stats don’t always tell the whole story, but he was consistently our top 1-2 players every game. 
As for Brownlow votes, Neale won it so we know how much that says. 

Edited by Jaded No More
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1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

An elite midfield is and always has been the most important element of being successful. It’s why we started our build with the midfield. 

I actually think this is very much central (npi) to where we may heading with all this.

Yes, the midfield is where it's  at ( unless we're talking about the other areas lol ) 

In our stellar 21 season we were not just a good contested side but we had reasonable success at central clearances.

Fast forward 23... not so much. We struggle to go bang, let alone bang bang....bang. Our central work is often stifled.. Olivers effectiveness has been curbed in many games because of tags. He's still outstanding  but our overall efficiency is way down. We have depth on the inside but our outside game leaves a lot for improvement.  I can see now how a Reid might change that.

An irony perhaps is Clarrys absence opened a new chapter.  Gave us a look at a slightly different Melbourne.

Its not how any player performed or contributed in 21 ( or 22/23 ) it's going to be about how the club sees us playing in 24 >>>> .. and who is needed to do so.

Clarry may very well be part of that picture....but maybe he's not.

We bemoan our FD for not embracing change...as other clubs do.  A number of changes are being thrust upon us....and just maybe there's a few we're still to add to that list.

We either evolve or get left behind.

Interesting days ahead.

Be curious to whats said by whom....( or not ) as this pans out.

He may be just going .... nowhere. We'll see soon enough I suspect. 

Edited by beelzebub
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11 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Also, whoever compared Rowell with Reid has no idea I'm sorry. And if you're agreeing then it's going to be impossible to talk with you.

Reid is a completely different player to Rowell and aside from their shared contested ball winning ability, Reid is far superior in just about every facet of the game as well as his physical makeup.

You're missing the point. The comparison wasn't about Reid and Rowell being the same sort of player. It was about them both being highly valued and thought of Under 18 players.

Drafting. Is. A. Lottery.

You cannot say definitively that Reid will be an elite player.

Therefore, the comparison between Reid and Oliver is stupid.

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15 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

His stats pre injury

Round 1: 37 and a goal

Round 2:  25 and 2 goals

Round 3: 34

Round 4: 41 in that shocking loss to Essendon

Round 5: 31 and a goal

Round 6: 37

Round 7: 28

Round 8: 34 and a goal

Round 9: 30 against Port playing the last quarter with an injured hamstring. 

He was on 38 votes in the coaches award by round 10 

I understand stats don’t always tell the whole story, but he was consistently our top 1-2 players every game. 
As for Brownlow votes, Neale won it so we know how much that says. 


In preseason he was sublime. I was marvelling at how he had got even better. 

Even still, I think we’re better off to move on. Culture & standards above all.

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Just now, Mach5 said:


In preseason he was sublime. I was marvelling at how he had got even better. 

Even still, I think we’re better off to move on. Culture & standards above all.

Did you want to move May on when he got drunk while in concussion protocols and got into a punch on with a teammate at a restaurant? 

This is not a player who has displayed consistently poor standards and behaviour. We wouldn't sign him for 7 years or award him 4 B&Fs if he had.

Something obviously went wrong this year for him. I would hope we can sort it out and move on, rather than throw him away.

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2 hours ago, Binmans PA said:

I don't think it's about being seduced by picks this time mate. It's about maintaining the culture that the club has tried so hard to foster, and maximising what is a dreadfully sorry and sad situation. 

Clarry is my favourite player, I'm devastated. But we've got the picks this year to work a deal that could rejuvenate our list.

The other thing not being talked about is the potential dramatic impact not having Clarry in our midfield will have on our game style. 

Collingwood have shown you don't need an elite midfield to win a flag. They've bucked the trend in that regard.

I trust JT, Lamb and the broader club to do what's right for the MFC here.

As gut wrenching as that is. I suspect many of us are so strongly bonded to Clarry because we waited so long for an elite midfielder and then we got him, he helped us win a flag and now here we are...

Well said mate.

The club is bigger then the individual and whilst I don't think he'll get traded, supporters do need to brace themselves for the reality that it definitely could happen.

Unpopular opinion here but I have full trust in Goodwin and the list management however way they handle this situation. 

Edited by dazzledavey36
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23 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I actually think this is very much central (npi) to where we may heading with all this.

Yes, the midfield is where it's  at ( unless we're talking about the other areas lol ) 

In our stellar 21 season we were not just a good contested side but we had reasonable success at central clearances.

Fast forward 23... not so much. We struggle to go bang, let alone bang bang....bang. Our central work is often stifled.. Olivers effectiveness has been curbed in many games because of tags. He's still outstanding  but our overall efficiency is way down. We have depth on the inside but our outside game leaves a lot for improvement.  I can see now how a Reid might change that.

An irony perhaps is Clarrys absence opened a new chapter.  Gave us a look at a slightly different Melbourne.

Its not how any player performed or contributed in 21 ( or 22/23 ) it's going to be about how the club sees us playing in 24 >>>> .. and who is needed to do so.

Clarry may very well be part of that picture....but maybe he's not.

We bemoan our FD for not embracing change...as other clubs do.  A number of changes are being thrust upon us....and just maybe there's a few we're still to add to that list.

We either evolve or get left behind.

Interesting days ahead.

Be curious to whats said by whom....( or not ) as this pans out.

He may be just going .... nowhere. We'll see soon enough I suspect. 

I think this is a very balanced view and it's being largely overlooked, the point about that it's not about 21 - 23, but rather how we want to look in 2024. 

Oliver, Petracca, Viney, Brayshaw (+ Sparrow); a very decent midfield but also there's not a lot of differentiation between those players. If we're looking to change the mix up, noting that Rivers 'may' get a run through the midfield, we're going to need to be able to obtain the capital to do so. Personally, I think if we can get Petracca to kick straight, he'll become the more damaging player out of Oliver/Petracca. 

With respect to Viney, Brayshaw and to a lesser extent Sparrow, none of those players are going to generate the capital required to obtain Reid, and as a result, the trade falls to Oliver. 

I'm not diminishing what Oliver has achieved, nor am I retrospectively diminishing his importance to Melbourne, but if you remove the passion and emotion from the decision, I think it's pretty understandable what the club is attempting to achieve (if it eventuates).

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5 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Well said mate.

The club is bigger then the individual and whilst I don't think he'll get traded, supporters do need to brace then select for the reality that it definitely could happen.

Unpopular opinion here but I have full trust in Goodwin and the list management however way they handle this situation. 

I had full faith until I saw Schache listed as the sub...

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8 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Did you want to move May on when he got drunk while in concussion protocols and got into a punch on with a teammate at a restaurant? 

This is not a player who has displayed consistently poor standards and behaviour. We wouldn't sign him for 7 years or award him 4 B&Fs if he had.

Something obviously went wrong this year for him. I would hope we can sort it out and move on, rather than throw him away.


No, but I believe May’s personality and issues are inherently different to Clayton’s.

Their impact on the performance of the side and influence on the playing group are contrasting, in my opinion.

I’m not swayed by media conjecture, if that’s what your angling at.

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If, of we were to trade Clarry, I seriously think many Melbourne fans would be bitterly fissapointed with the return. IMO this talk of us working it to get picks 1 and 3 are pie in the sky stuff, even if we bundle 5 into it. I think we'd be more likely to be offered something roughly similar to the Jackson trade, 2 x 1sts and a 2nd, with the two 1sts being outside top 10

But it's all smoke and mirrors at the moment, who the f knows!

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Ok I’m trying to catch up with everything and see where the facts are and wondering if there’s been an over reaction. 
What do we actually know? Is it a fact that he has split with his long term partner and gone off the rails a bit or are we just speculating?

Is he staying at Maxxys house or is that just speculation too?

The blister being a self given tattoo fact or speculation?

Just trying to get my head around this and try and work out if theres real reason to be concerned. 

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1 hour ago, The heart beats true said:

I just want to officially be on the record, and have written it down somewhere, that there’s a lot of talk about the work Collingwood have done with De Goey floating about - as if he’s suddenly been cured.

I’m not buying it. 

I saw him interviewed on On The Couch. He’s a bogan who’s been forced into finishing school. It was cringeworthy viewing. 

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26 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

You're missing the point. The comparison wasn't about Reid and Rowell being the same sort of player. It was about them both being highly valued and thought of Under 18 players.

Drafting. Is. A. Lottery.

You cannot say definitively that Reid will be an elite player.

Therefore, the comparison between Reid and Oliver is stupid.

No, I'm not missing any point.

Rowell was never spoken about in the same light as Reid.

So whilst I can't definitively say Reid will be an elite player at AFL level, (just as you can't say Clayton's career will continue on an upward trajectory), I can compare both Reid and Rowell from the unders years and deduce that Reid is ahead in every facet and has been the more dominant player, therefore has a better chance of succeeding at the elite level.

It is my view that Reid will be an elite AFL player and I think if we had him in place of Oliver right now, our team would function just as well.

 

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Three reason why this talk of Oliver trade may have any substance but I do believe it is garbage 

1) Club has stuffed up Salary Cap

2) Oliver is upset in his rehab this year

3) Club realises that our mids collectively can't hit targets and we want to keep Petracca, therefor Oliver has the highest trade return

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1 minute ago, drdrake said:

Three reason why this talk of Oliver trade may have any substance but I do believe it is garbage 

3) Club realises that our mids collectively can't hit targets and we want to keep Petracca, therefor Oliver has the highest trade return

This plus a little from '4'.

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37 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

You're missing the point. The comparison wasn't about Reid and Rowell being the same sort of player. It was about them both being highly valued and thought of Under 18 players.

Drafting. Is. A. Lottery.

You cannot say definitively that Reid will be an elite player.

Therefore, the comparison between Reid and Oliver is stupid.

It’s pretty clear the club are prepared to move mountains to get Reid. They’ve long wanted him. I’d suggest the club has allowed the Oliver story out to see what comes back. The chance of it happening remain very small. I’m backing the club on this. 

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4 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

It’s pretty clear the club are prepared to move mountains to get Reid. They’ve long wanted him. I’d suggest the club has allowed the Oliver story out to see what comes back. The chance of it happening remain very small. I’m backing the club on this. 

I hope Reid not only has what it takes to be a great player, but is also prepared to deal with the enormous pressure of coming into the club off the back of Oliver being traded. Those are some big shoes to overtake. 

 

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1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

You don’t think Selwood, Danger, Duncan and Guthrie are elite? 
They were old as balls, but they were still elite. 

How do you rate a starting midfield of Gawn, Trac, Viney and Sparrow? Because that’s probably the 2024 midfield we are looking at. Now let’s factor in an injury to say Viney, then how does that midfield look?


 

Like the sky was falling when Max went down against Brisbane, you have no capability to think anything but the worst in every scenario.

Young players get opportunity through injury and suspension and teams adjust when players are out, like we did during Clarry’s absence this season.

As for Brayshaw every player in the competition is 1 hit away from a career ending concussion just like Daniel Venables.

Whatever the outcome things will be fine, we will have Oliver back focused or we will have picks that JT and Lamb have shown they will use wisely. Teams need to continually evolve.

The sun came up today, I’m still breathing and my family are healthy, life’s good look at positives and enjoy it

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