GAMEDAY: Rd 16 vs Fremantle

[old dee 23,276]

1 hour ago, joeboy said:

So when ( not if ) we lose tonight, what statement do we make at the selection table for our next game???‍♂️

By then it will be who cares joeboy.

[forever demons 1,975]

14 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

 

I agree.

Let's move on...to "fewer" versus "less". This should help:

 

going to take bex and have a good lie down

[At the break of Gawn 3,889]

I think we'll win tonight, but not by much. I can only hope that the players have acclimatised by now and have trained at Cazaly's to understand the conditions a bit better. 

Longmire had a strategy for kicking with the win and against the wind. Goodwin needs to adopt this same approach.  

[Deespicable 2,574]

I made it pretty clear that I did not like the backline structure that we had against Sydney and while I am frustrated that we changed the successful back six (seven with rotation) that served us so well against Collingwood and North and one which served us pretty well against the Bulldogs (they beat us in the midfield) , I have to say I am pretty happy with the make-up of our side tonight.

Whilst I would still prefer the intensity and kicking skills of Lockhart, the backline includes a better mix of talls and runners than last week and should match up well - May on Taberner, Lever on Hoges and Tomlinson on Lobb with Joel Smith the lockdown role on Walters or Fyfe - depending on whether they send the latter forward. The Lever on Hoges battle will probably be game-determining in my view as it should be a low-scoring affair given their style of switching heavily from down back.

I am also excited at the prospect that we will see a bit of VDB in the guts with the tiring Trac likely to spend quite a bit of the game at full-forward. Melky will probably get a bit of a go in the middle as well and hopefully the pair can negate Mundy enough leaving Olly and Viney to go to work on Brayshaw, Fyfe or Acres.

The move to bring in Preuss is smart given they have Lobb as their second ruckman and Brown for all his run and workrate simply cannot match that sort of presence. Preuss also provides the security should Max need a break and the pair when resting may even force Freo to restructure, although I imagine they will play Ryan on Weid and rely on Cox to take Preuss or Gawn. 

Freo enjoy keepings off and have loads of runners, so having four small forwards, which is one too many for any long-term sustainable framework, may actually work well and force them to turn it over on occasions. Looking forward to seeing Kossie off a break and Hunt, who I rate much higher than most of you and certainly our coach, with his career at Melbourne on the line. I'm assuming Baker will play on the other wing and if he negate Aish's influence then he will have done a great job.

I hope that if we cop an injury down back or things don't work out with Smith (he will be playing on their most dangerous player remember) that our coach breaks the rules and sends Hunt back before it's all over. Yes I know he has been training with the forwards, but he did spend quite a few years learning his defensive craft and I suspect that he will be playing half-back in some side next season - not sure which one yet.

And one last thing. Thank christ we made seven changes and brought in a lot of fresh legs. While it may have been partly forced on them, our selectors seemed to have learnt from the Port four-day break debacle.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

I like to think we can win tonight as we still have a decent midfield. I like the in of Preuss  a big body to help out Gawn when resting in the pocket, that is what l expect will happen mainly alternating. 

We need our better players to lift a notch tonight and our second tier group to show some fight . The next 3 games are all winnable matches but we somehow find a way to embarrass  ourselves.

However the time has come to show us what you are made out of. Give us that effort tonight , make us proud.

 

 

[layzie 30,471]

If Bennell can't get in with 7 changes what hope does he have? 

[Diamond_Jim 12,134]

12 minutes ago, layzie said:

If Bennell can't get in with 7 changes what hope does he have? 

depends if you now follow the new group think that he was never for 2020 anyway.

I have already identified the theme of this year's excuse for our general under performance ..(screwed by travel and scheduling)

PS..made a relatively innocuous comment BTL in the Guardian on Dan's plan.

Boy the responses I got back from the Defenders of Dan made the posters on here look so friendly.

Back into my bubble I go !!

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Diamond_Jim

[layzie 30,471]

14 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

depends if you now follow the new group think that he was never for 2020 anyway.

I have already identified the theme of this year's excuse for our general under performance ..(screwed by travel and scheduling)

PS..made a relatively innocuous comment BTL in the Guardian on Dan's plan.

Boy the responses I got back from the Defenders of Dan made the posters on here look so friendly.

Back into my bubble I go !!

 

*Runs to Guardian website ? 

 

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

15 minutes ago, layzie said:

If Bennell can't get in with 7 changes what hope does he have? 

Plenty of hope!  He has been told to build on his base.  He started running well after the season had started! Amazing that he managed a few games this year with the preparation he had.  Harley will be stronger/faster/harder for 2021.  He has been put in cotton wool for the rest of the year and rightly so.  He could be of huge importance with a full preseason under his belt.  He has plenty of unfinished business, would guarantee he has already locked in his next contract.  Watch him grow in confidence next year.  Has exceeded this years expectations of even playing senior footy.  

If Lockhart can't get a game with 7 changes i seriously wonder what is happening though haha!

[DubDee 22,192]

We usually bounce back after a horrible loss.  While I am still emotionally scarred from that 2nd quarter on thursday, I still think we will win and fairly easily too. we will be acclimatised to the conditions which is an important factor imo 

we have no chance of finals though, Giants will beat us next week - so I will do my best not to get my hopes up after the win tonight (and fail miserably)

[demonique 314]

Just a question about tonight’s match. 
 

What do you think will  happen if we comfortably lose this match vs Fremantle? What  does this match represent ? 

[DubDee 22,192]

4 points and a chance of finals.  that's about it.  the damage was done against the Swans and Port

[DemonOX 8,581]

49 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Longmire had a strategy for kicking with the win and against the wind. Goodwin needs to adopt this same approach.  

Thats what GOOD coaches do.

Hope we see some of it tonight otherwise Goody you can stick your LEARNINGS where the sun dont shine.

[Diamond_Jim 12,134]

7 minutes ago, DubDee said:

4 points and a chance of finals.  that's about it.  the damage was done against the Swans and Port

add in the Geelong loss perhaps

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

4 minutes ago, demonique said:

Just a question about tonight’s match. 
 

What do you think will  happen if we comfortably lose this match vs Fremantle? What  does this match represent ? 

With so many players effectively playing for new contracts i can't see us losing this in dramatic fashion.  Trending wise these are the type of games we tend to win after putting in a stinker.  If we lost comfortably it is season over and the blowtorches are out.   This match represents something called "heart".  Expecting to see more heart from the new comers than players like Melksham/Fritch.  This game will be a blueprint for future in terms of not picking guys that are not prepared to bust their guts.  These are the learnings i expect Goodwin will gather after this game.  3 strikes your out policy is way too late.  Effort>Skills in most games.  It should not matter the name of players, just play your role!

[Lucifers Hero 37,534]

59 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

I think we'll win tonight, but not by much. I can only hope that the players have acclimatised by now and have trained at Cazaly's to understand the conditions a bit better. 

Longmire had a strategy for kicking with the win and against the wind. Goodwin needs to adopt this same approach.  

Longmire's strategy was simple:  defend when playing against the wind (flood the d50, force fwds wide) and attack when with the wind.  Its a typical strategy for any windy day/oval not necessarily Gazaly.  We have played in Hobart enough to know that is a basic strategy.

While its true we hadn't been able to train on the oval beforehand, a bit of googling would highlight it was going to be windy.  Certainly knowing the conditions beforehand may have helped our goal kicking but it looked like we didn't have a 'windy day' strategy re when to defend/attack and paid the price by letting Syd get 5 unanswered goals in the 2nd qtr when they had the wind.

Edited September 7, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[jnrmac 19,520]

4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Anyone else get the impression from Goodwin yesterday that the club doesn't think it will play finals?  Three things I noticed:

1. He started talking of the condensed fixture, travel, Alice, late arrival at Gazaly and conditions.  It was like excuses are in the pipeline.

2. When asked about focusing at this intense time he talked about the opportunity for the club to grow, to develop, to continue to evolve, to be consistent and that is our aim.  Lots of teams vying for finals and we want to use it as an opportunity to get better.  No sense of expectation to play in finals.  Hardly filled me with confidence. 

3. When asked about the list he talked 'this year is about building ourselves up' and play in some games that will define us 'whether we play finals or not'

4. Selections.

Have very little confidence in a win tonight.

We have had our chance.

Goodwin has spent 4 yrs saying we would build a team that could play a contested 'brand' of football that could stand up in finals. What a joke. We can't stand up against teams like the Swans who have nothing to play for. We couldnt stand up to the Dogs despite all of us knowing exactly how the Dogs would play. We won against the Saints but could just as easily have been a disaster.

We are being beaten in contested football and are 19th for tackles, Isn't that supposed to be our brand? Hard contested footy? WTF happened to that?

In almost every single game where we have to 'stand up' we fail.

What has Goodwin built? Nothing.

We can't be trusted. We are mentally weak. We are embarrasssing. We have zero consistency except for our consistency to bomb the ball into our fwd 50

Another wasted season

 

Goodwin has to go.

[Cards13 9,117]

5 hours ago, binman said:

Us dees fans are a hardy lot. Who have developed all sort of coping strategies to deal with the sort of routine gut punch we got in the last game.

Some get angry. Some fatalistic. Some vow never to care again. Some get depressed. Well all really. And some pretend it's just a game.

Me I give it some time, try to process my frustration,  then pretend it never happened and by game day and full of optimism, can't see how we can possibly lose and am trying to convince my mate we should back the dees over 39. 

I developed this coping mechanism during the long dark days of the 70s. And have been honing it ever since.

A key design element is a seven day break between games. Six day break stress tests the model. But it cannot cope with a four day break.

Freo will be desperate to beat our Casey ones and we have decided to help their cause by changing a third of our side.

And having refused to use two rucks suddenly decided to do so.

And despite making seven changes [censored] Melksham is not one of them.

And despite lack of foot skills being our biggest glaring issue we don't bring in our best kick. 

And after picking the slowest dees side since Spud Dullard and Ray Biffen graced the team, and 90& of supports wondering why against young swans team who our skipper said in the lead up like to play fast footy, we have suddenly picked the fastest, against a team that moves the ball at turtle speed.. 

And the coach knows the problem. And is working on fixing it. Make no mistake the players want to win. And know that effort was not acceptable. This is not the Melbourne way (yes goody, it [censored] well is). We have an identifiable brand (that at least is true, but it ain't what you think). We will look to play our best team each week, cos we are super burgess fit. Until we don't. We will pick a side that want to win. 

[censored]. [censored] [censored]. Another [censored] wasted [censored] season. [censored]. [censored]. 

 

Lol I was literally thinking just this, Jesus H christ I can’t cope with the fast turnaround of games this season (unless we’re winning). It literally tests the already well tested resolve and give the MFCSS a real hiding. 

[Bitter but optimistic 21,601]

As it stands we’re [censored] for this season!

If however, we win tonight big and well , then we will still have a pulse. 
Another weak kneed effort is too horrible to contemplate 

[Kent 2,688]

3 hours ago, chook fowler said:

i usually get guffaws of laughter.

It's the pity that I cannot stand

[Demonland 67,007]

Hibberd in doubt 

 

[ding 5,126]

Well, we still have a chance to play finals. Until we are NO chance, then there is hope.

Hope was created specifically to torture Melbourne Football Club supporters.

The Melbourne thing to do would be to stay in the hunt until the very last game of the season before crashing to a big defeat at the hands of a club with nothing to play for.

That being the case, i reckon we can win today, but fall at the final hurdle to a totally out of form Essendon.

It would be the Melbourne way.

[Docs Demons 1,693]

34 minutes ago, DubDee said:

We usually bounce back after a horrible loss.  While I am still emotionally scarred from that 2nd quarter on thursday, I still think we will win and fairly easily too. we will be acclimatised to the conditions which is an important factor imo 

we have no chance of finals though, Giants will beat us next week - so I will do my best not to get my hopes up after the win tonight (and fail miserably)

Dub I'm with you on tonight but against you with GWS. Win tonight and I think we have a real chance against GWS at the Gabba. GWS coming back from Adelaide with one less day rest and we play well at the Gabba. Was there for the Magpies game and play like that we can beat them. So win tonight, a good chance against GWS then over to Bombers game. 

Of course drop tonight and she's all over folks.

[layzie 30,471]

Never made sense picking Hibberd. Give him every chance sure but he really needed a full week at least. 

[titan_uranus 23,294]

4 hours ago, binman said:

The dogs will win their last two games as unlike us they can be trusted to to so. That means that that if we lose tonight we are out of finals contention.

So tonight is an elimination final.

And if we win this game the GWS game will also bean elimination final.

And if we happen to win the next two the Bombers game will bean elimination final . 

And if we win that game we will be playing in an elimination final.

Possibly against West Coast. In Perth.

4 hours ago, SFebes said:

So I very quickly done a ladder predictor, if we win all 3 games we make the 8 on percentage and/or one game clear. If we win 2 of the last 3 then we still don't make it? Anyone else with more time had a go at a predictor? Not that I really care, we will bail straight out anyway I feel. Also, Melksham is a mate of Goodys.....thats why he is still playing. Says it all. We should win tonight you'd think....surely? Lots of changes though, 13 changes in 4 days? Lost count.

That's not entirely true.

Whilst the Dogs' win last night makes it harder, we can still make it if we lose tonight.

Requires the following:

1. We beat GWS and Essendon
2. The Dogs lose one of their last two (Hawthorn and Fremantle)
3. GWS loses to Adelaide
4. St Kilda loses both of its last two games (West Coast and GWS)
5. Collingwood loses both of its last two games (GC and Port).

We would then finish on 9, as would St Kilda, the Dogs and GWS. Percentage would separate us through 6-9 on the ladder. If Carlton were to win out, it would also finish on 9 and would join the percentage battle.

Because there are three spots available, we can actually afford for a maximum of two of the above situations to not play out. On the probabilities, the least likely is GWS losing to Adelaide. But then we can only afford one more the above to not happen or we won't make it - so, for example, if Collingwood beats Gold Coast we then need the Dogs to drop a game, or vice versa.