POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 15

[buck_nekkid 5,818]

We were thrashed.  Scoreboard doesn't reflect how well beaten we were.  10 minutes of positive footy in the first quarter.  Some small observations:

Max was thrashed.  

Our exit from point kick ins was both predictable and horrible.  Swans pressed well but we had nothin'.  Again and again we would 'kick it to Max' or a 1 vs 3 and we were screwed.

We could have sold our i50 for parking.  We had no structure forward of the ball, and any opportunity we had to go inside 50 we pretty much hit up Swans players, or their loose man (2v1).  Only Tommy Macs lead and mark showed how to do this differently.

We relied on individual acts (Petracca) too much, and our whole team plan was let down by slips, fumbles and errors in decision making.  They applied pressure, but we were flat and fumbled.

For the second week in a row, we were outmarked, outspread and outworked. We seemed to block the corridor OK, but they spread hard and we JOGGED behind them.  In the last two weeks our opponents have taken too many contested and uncontested marks.  We are not making or halving the aerial contests.

White..his first two kicks were absolute howlers.

Jetta - first bloke picked.  What a champ.

Frost - should have run off Buddy Buttface more.  He did a pretty good job on him, I loved that he spanked him in the foot race stakes a couple of times.

OMac and TMac - big ticks

Bugg - well down, and now to get a long mid season break.

Viney - wtf?  Looked like he did it in the warm up at the start of the second half.

OK, its not the end of the season, but sitting through that was like drinking a cup of cold sick.  

[CityDee 738]

Wags trying to chip sideways ( turnover ) when he could have taken some ground up the middle sums it up , structural. Throw Weid and Hoges in lewis and vince and watts using it of half back and centre  .

and dont fumble . A chance agaInst the blues. 

 

[Ted Lasso 18,744]

No afl club with our recent fixture or injuries would have gotten near the swans last night. 

God I hope Viney isn't our for very long

[low flying Robbo 979]

23 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Can anyone find video of Jones' high hit on Hannan.  Deliberate elbow to the head which knocked him off his feet.  Carey tried to say Jones was 'just bracing' while going for the ball.  Didn't look like it to me - bracing means tucking arms in and taking the hit on the upper arm/shoulder.  And it didn't look like 'negligible impact' either.  To Hannan's credit he bounced back up again but that doesn't mitigate the severity of the hit to the head.

Wouldn't mind seeing it again if anyone can find it.

They replayed it a bunch after the game on Foxtel. Was in a bar so couldn't hear the sound but it was arm tucked in to the body and a definite bump attempt. Got him square on the cheek. Will be a week or 2

[Demonised 1,302]

I get the awful feeling  that we're in an 'If only' season. In years to come we might be looking back with regret and saying, '2017 was a real chance. If only we didn't have all those injuries...'

[Lucifers Hero 38,917]

3 hours ago, buck_nekkid said:

Max was thrashed.  

 

Max's right knee was very heavily strapped from the start.  (He usually has a thin/small bandage). 

Not making excuses for him but he looked really handicapped with it:  Couldn't jump (only 29 Hitouts, usually over 50); looked like slow motion when he tried to chase and most of his kicks barely connected and dribbled off the boot.  So he didn't have his usual impact and we desperately missed that. 

I had hoped a fresh Max with the Eagles game under his belt, would give us first use and we get mid field dominance which would help cover Jones' absence. 

A quiet Max meant everyone else had to work that much harder for us to get possessions and it was a reach to far.

That said to win 3 of 4 games in 18 days is a herculean effort by our team of mainly 'baby demons'.  I tips my hat to them one and all. 

And, I desperately hope Max isn't carrying another injury.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[Brownie 5,846]

10 minutes ago, Abe said:

No afl club with our recent fixture or injuries would have gotten near the swans last night. 

God I hope Viney isn't our for very long

planta is usually really bad. evidently he's been carrying it all season and he ended up on crutches. I reckon he's out for 4 at least. but who knows with that bloke.

bloody injuries

[Ted Lasso 18,744]

2 minutes ago, Brownie said:

planta is usually really bad. evidently he's been carrying it all season and he ended up on crutches. I reckon he's out for 4 at least. but who knows with that bloke.

bloody injuries

It depends on what's happened, it's usually better to just tear it and get onto rehabbing it. It becomes really nasty if it doesn't completely tear because that's when you can carry it for a long time. I suspect he's been carrying it and last night it finally went. 

 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,631]

7 hours ago, Hogan2014 said:

We lacked marking forwards...

I thought Weiderman may have provided a target & either Kent or JKH to replace Garlet...

Gotta trust the club as they have got it right most times this year...

Reading this again, I agree with most of the above except the first part.

We really need to replace Garlet with a like player.  As it was we lacked both a small forward use to playing the role of tackleling/chaseing, providing that speed over the back and taking Hunt out of the backline robbed us of that linebreaking rebounder.

Like you, I was almost waiting for White and the reshuffling of our team to play out as some kind of inspired move on behalf of our coaching team, but it didn't materialise on the night, probably because the rest of the team was so flat and depleted.

[Robot Devil 1,895]

 

12 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Max's right knee was very heavily strapped from the start.  (He usually has a thin/small bandage). 

 

 

Not making excuses for him but he looked really handicapped with it:  Couldn't jump (only 29 Hitouts, usually over 50); looked like slow motion when he tried to chase and most of his kicks barely connected and dribbled off the boot.  So he didn't have his usual impact and we desperately missed that. 

 

 

I had hoped a fresh Max with the Eagles game under his belt, would give us first use and we get mid field dominance which would help cover Jones' absence. 

 

 

A quiet Max meant everyone else had to work that much harder for us to get possessions and it was a reach to far.

 

 

That said to win 4 of 5 games in 18 days is a herculean effort by our team of mainly 'baby demons'.  I tips my hat to them one and all. 

 

 

And, I desperately hope Max isn't carrying another injury.

 

 

It was clear that Sydney targeted Max as well.

Did anyone else see the incident where he was kneed in the guts or nuts in a rucking contest early on?

Happened right in front of me and looked a deliberate action.

Will be interesting to see if the MRP look at that one.

 

[low flying Robbo 979]

3 minutes ago, Robot Devil said:

 

It was clear that Sydney targeted Max as well.

Did anyone else see the incident where he was kneed in the guts or nuts in a rucking contest early on?

Happened right in front of me and looked a deliberate action.

Will be interesting to see if the MRP look at that one.

 

yeah i noticed that one. Definitely looked deliberate but the media won't make anything of it as they'll be concentrating on Bugg. 

Jones should probably get a couple of weeks too

[jumbo returns 6,703]

7 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

WTF, what a load of BS

When we were winning all these blokes looked the goods and we're kicking goals metaphorically (and literally).  Pretty tough call to single out these guys when 3/4s of our side looked spent and lathargic tonight.  Oliver had a [censored] night, perhaps he's a VFL player also.  Gawn was ok, but still not hitting his A game (with good reason).

If anything, I thought Harmes and Melksham were a few that actually showed a bit of energy and drive tonight.  Yes Harms missed a soda early in the second half, but that's hardly what lost us the game tonight (not to mention the clutch goal he kicked last week to keep us in the game in the fourth).  Let's not forget that a number of those you list are still essentially developing players who have continued to improve and pretty much all normally fearlessly and relentlessly attack the contest, hunting the ball and the opposition and take on the gamr in a manner that our game plan/style which has been so successful over the previous four weeks demands.

I'm quite prepared to put this game down to 3 X 6 day breaks, No Watts, Garlett, Jones (& Pactically Viney) and comming up against the other form side in the comp who are at close to peak fittness/personal.  Even then, we hardly discraced ourselves.  If next week's game is a disaster, the things would look more ominous for some, but let's wait and see there, so far this year we have been pretty good at backing up after a loss.

Nup......wtf, you're wrong

These players are not up to AFL standard

Fin

[Lucifers Hero 38,917]

The good news is we are still 6th on the ladder with a good %age and it is most likely to be that way at the end of this round.

If we can get enough talent back each week we can stay there and hopefully have a fit list for a tilt at September.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,631]

3 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Nup......wtf, you're wrong

These players are not up to AFL standard

Fin

That's a nice opinion to have, unfortunately, the facts are that players you think are apparently not up to standard have played 200 - 400 AFL games between them that means that they are up to the standard.

[Biffen 12,805]

Sydney are a team of scraggers.

They scragged harder, and got away with more terrible footy and rugby.

Umps were gay for Sydney.

B team for us

Move on.

[MarkMacca 133]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Can anyone find video of Jones' high hit on Hannan.  Deliberate elbow to the head which knocked him off his feet.  Carey tried to say Jones was 'just bracing' while going for the ball.  Didn't look like it to me - bracing means tucking arms in and taking the hit on the upper arm/shoulder.  And it didn't look like 'negligible impact' either.  To Hannan's credit he bounced back up again but that doesn't mitigate the severity of the hit to the head.

Wouldn't mind seeing it again if anyone can find it.

Remind me, in what quarter did this happen?

[praha 11,100]

42 minutes ago, Demonised said:

I get the awful feeling  that we're in an 'If only' season. In years to come we might be looking back with regret and saying, '2017 was a real chance. If only we didn't have all those injuries...'

We won't because we'll be look back on our 2018-2020 threepeat.

[Little Richard 6,212]

Frustrating loss but not demoralising. We looked tired and flat, and the opposition are the in form team of the competition. Let's not forget they played in a GF less than 12 months ago. They outplayed us at our own game and it was always on the cards, considering our outs. Particularly when Viney went off.

We'll bounce back next week after a decent break, lick our wounds and win enough games to finish in the 8. The belief is still strong.

[Coq au vin 755]

And so begins the great spiral down the ladder to eleventh-thirteenth where we will finish the season. Gawn's knee/hamstrings are not right yet after his surgery for a major tear. He needs a rest.  Viney will be out for a few weeks. Bugg punched a player in the face (what for?) and will be out for six. Watts apparently still has hamstring trouble. Hogan has had a terrible year with his father dying, an orchidectomy for cancer after just farewelling his father who died of cancer, time off for bad behavior on the field, the media picking on him about smoking a cigarette. He'll be rusty and will find it difficult to focus on the footy. Salem will be out for four to six weeks or so with a hamstring tear and won't instantly be his usual self on return. Jeff Garlett's hamstring tear may not be too bad. Hopefully he doesn't exacerbate it with his wonderful speedy bursts of running. And Jones, despite his habits of bombing it long without looking and turning it over by foot, is sorely missed for his hard nut burrowing midfield approach. He'll be out for a few more weeks. 

I predict we'll maybe win one more game for the season. It's been nice to dream.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Diamond
Left out Nathan

[jumbo returns 6,703]

35 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

That's a nice opinion to have, unfortunately, the facts are that players you think are apparently not up to standard have played 200 - 400 AFL games between them that means that they are up to the standard.

Playing AFL games doesn't equate to AFL standards

[Deemented Are Go! 3,676]

7 minutes ago, Diamond said:

And so begins the great spiral down the ladder to eleventh-thirteenth where we will finish the season. Gawn's knee/hamstrings are not right yet after his surgery for a major tear. He needs a rest.  Viney will be out for a few weeks. Bugg punched a player in the face (what for?) and will be out for six. Watts apparently still has hamstring trouble. Hogan has had a terrible year with his father dying, an orchidectomy for cancer after just farewelling his father who died of cancer, time off for bad behavior on the field, the media picking on him about smoking a cigarette. He'll be rusty and will find it difficult to focus on the footy. Salem will be out for four to six weeks or so with a hamstring tear and won't instantly be his usual self on return. Jeff Garlett's hamstring tear may not be too bad. Hopefully he doesn't exacerbate it with his wonderful speedy bursts of running.

I predict we'll maybe win one more game for the season. It's been nice to dream.

What a dim world view. Let's talk again in 8 weeks. 

[low flying Robbo 979]

36 minutes ago, MarkMacca said:

Remind me, in what quarter did this happen?

maybe in the fourth?

[Wiseblood 24,637]

9 minutes ago, Diamond said:

And so begins the great spiral down the ladder to eleventh-thirteenth where we will finish the season. Gawn's knee/hamstrings are not right yet after his surgery for a major tear. He needs a rest.  Viney will be out for a few weeks. Bugg punched a player in the face (what for?) and will be out for six. Watts apparently still has hamstring trouble. Hogan has had a terrible year with his father dying, an orchidectomy for cancer after just farewelling his father who died of cancer, time off for bad behavior on the field, the media picking on him about smoking a cigarette. He'll be rusty and will find it difficult to focus on the footy. Salem will be out for four to six weeks or so with a hamstring tear and won't instantly be his usual self on return. Jeff Garlett's hamstring tear may not be too bad. Hopefully he doesn't exacerbate it with his wonderful speedy bursts of running.

I predict we'll maybe win one more game for the season. It's been nice to dream.

I know last night's loss was a tough pill to swallow, but why anyone would believe that we are going to spiral down the ladder at this point of the season has me at a loss.  We've shown time and time again that we are up for the challenge and that we can match it with any side.

I get that we have lots of injuries to deal with, but I've got faith that we can steel ourselves over the next month and take at least 2 more wins as we add some of our important players back into the side.

[dees189227 12,022]

10 hours ago, praha said:

Melbourne's media department should be fired for letting Channel 7 interview Bugg.

No they shouldnt. Good on them for putting Buggy on the front foot and they probably wanted him to do it so he could be seen to be remorseful. If just hid him away then he'd be hassled at training by the media where he'd probably wouldn't say much. What Bugg did was just stupid and no need for it. Make him accountable for his actions. 

[spirit of norm smith 15,059]

Why ...

1. Sydney outsmarted us. They played a spare man in defence and used McVeigh as a quarterback role to launch.

2. Contested footy. Jack. Hannebery. Kennedy. Parker. We missed Jones & Viney.

3. Pressure and turnovers. Swans knew we overuse the footy and handball 7 times to runners. They pressured us and expected the handballing.  They created turnovers. They locked the ball inside their 50.

4. Our foot skills were poor. Very poor. Lots of work still to do. New recruits must be skilled. White, Wagner, Tyson, Pedersen all made multiple errors. It killed us.

5. Injuries to stars are hurting us. 

Salem  Jones  Hogan  Watts  Brayshaw  Viney

Forward structure: missing Hogan, Watts, Garlett. Our marks inside 50 were nonexistent and crumbling even worse. Sydney controlled our 50. Their back 6 is very good. 

midfield: we were smashed. Jones & Viney were needed for leadership and grunt. Oliver and Trac were good but needed the skippers. Brayshaw would be handy right now.

Classy half back: Salem is a vital part of our rebound. Hibberd is a gun but White & Wagner were Casey standard and created too many turnovers. 

Short term outlook: Hogan & Garlett back next week. Watts doubtful v blues. 

Further out is Jones 3 weeks. Salem 3 weeks. Viney unknown (between 2-wk to indefinite)