Michael Hibberd and Michael Hurley

[Gorgoroth 13,023]

We don't desperately need him. He would be good to get but he must come for free or third rounder at most.

Club must play hard ball on this one. 

[Pates 9,660]

7 hours ago, faultydet said:

A lack of spine. Typical.

Could also be a case that neither of the players want to leave Essendon on such bad terms, not uncommon for the departing player to want the club compensated. Having said that I would love us to low ball them with that threat hanging over them. 

[DistrACTION Jackson 9,246]

5 minutes ago, Pates said:

Could also be a case that neither of the players want to leave Essendon on such bad terms, not uncommon for the departing player to want the club compensated. Having said that I would love us to low ball them with that threat hanging over them. 

I agree it would be most likely the player would not want to head down this route. I think Essendon will end up accepting our 2nd round pick and will move on. They will puff their chests out like the morons they are but in the end they let the players down and will move on.

[Gator 17,479]

10 hours ago, Nasher said:

It's more complicated than that. For some, even if they do feel duped, they'd feel duped by Hird and his cronies, not by "Essendon". "Essendon" to the players would mean the jumper they play for, the fans that love them, the good wins they've had, the fans that back them. 

For others, perhaps Hibberd, perhaps they do feel duped by "Essendon", but don't feel the need to punish Worsfold, the other players or the new administration - all of whom are totally innocent, by totally burning them.

I don't think it's as black and white as some would make out.

I'm not sure I share your view.

I doubt they can emotionally get away from it being "Essendon".  Essendon couldn't play finals, Essendon were fined, Essendon lost draft picks and Essendon players were booed, because they played for Essendon.

Essendon lost their president, CEO, list manager and coach due to a reckless injection program.

Heppell is suing Essendon.

Essendon can't tell these players with absolute certainty what was injected into them.  

Essendon cannot guarantee, no matter how unlikely, that these players' children won't be born with two heads.  

And as far as Worsfold goes they may not feel the need to punish him, but I also doubt they've formed much of a bond or loyalty to him.

Edited July 12, 2016 by ProDee

[Nasher 33,617]

13 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I'm not sure I share your view.

I doubt they can emotionally get away from it being "Essendon".  Essendon couldn't play finals, Essendon were fined, Essendon lost draft picks and Essendon players were booed, because they played for Essendon.

Essendon lost their president, CEO, list manager and coach due to a reckless injection program.

Heppell is suing Essendon.

Essendon can't tell these players with absolute certainty what was injected into them.  

Essendon cannot guarantee, no matter how unlikely, that these players' children won't be born with two heads.  

And as far as Worsfold goes they may not feel the need to punish him, but I also doubt they've formed much of a bond or loyalty to him.

All fair points and hard to argue with.

Interesting that Heppell is suing Essendon, but isn't linked to any other club and doesn't appear to be trying to use the contract violation avenue to get out either.  You could be right, and it could just be as simple as the fact as the players don't think they'd succeed if they went down that path.  Otherwise, why wouldn't they?

Hibberd himself re-signed in 2014, right in the thick of the issue (though at that time Hird, Dank and co were telling them it was all fine), so it might be hard for him to argue that his contract was breached.

[brendan 3,437]

After everything essendon put these players through, if they don't lose at least 1 player for nothing I will spew, makes me sick watching them all recommit to the club, I hate essendon so much 

[Demons11 7,058]

47 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

We don't desperately need him. He would be good to get but he must come for free or third rounder at most.

Club must play hard ball on this one. 

He is definitely a 2nd rd pick not 3rd

[Gator 17,479]

27 minutes ago, Nasher said:

All fair points and hard to argue with.

Interesting that Heppell is suing Essendon, but isn't linked to any other club and doesn't appear to be trying to use the contract violation avenue to get out either.  You could be right, and it could just be as simple as the fact as the players don't think they'd succeed if they went down that path.  Otherwise, why wouldn't they?

Hibberd himself re-signed in 2014, right in the thick of the issue (though at that time Hird, Dank and co were telling them it was all fine), so it might be hard for him to argue that his contract was breached.

The fact that so many are willing to return to Essendon validates your view.  As you say, it's not black or white,

[poita 3,902]

Salem, Lumumba, Grimes, Garland, Wagner, White, Jetta, Hunt, Melksham, and anyone else I have forgotten. How many small / medium sized defenders do we possibly need? Yes, Hibberd might be an upgrade on some (most?) of those, but it is hardly a weak spot on our list. Why are we wasting time and effort going after a player that we don't really need? And then to go through the hassle of dealing with Essendon, by far the worst club in the competition to trade with.

We need top shelf midfielders and key position players, anything else is a distraction from the real issues. More than happy for the club to chase Hurley, but no thanks to Hibberd .

 

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

They can walk if they choose to . But will they. 

They can institute a grievance procedure via the AFL. The result would see contracts dissolved and they become DFA. Can do what and where they like thereafter. No compensation to their former club.

Interesting days. 

Am I correct in assuming there will be some kind of hearing or something to prove their case should they choose to do this? So if history tells us anything with the Bombers and the AFL it will drag out for 6-12months and a trade will have to be done in the mean time anyway. 

 

[Moonshadow 17,677]

15 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Am I correct in assuming there will be some kind of hearing or something to prove their case should they choose to do this? So if history tells us anything with the Bombers and the AFL it will drag out for 6-12months and a trade will have to be done in the mean time anyway. 

 

Yes, It appears that it might be easier to go through a trade than an AFL 'make it up as they go along' grievance tribunal which could take too long and have an unclear outcome. List lodgement dates would make it important to get it done in a timely manner rather miss out altogether. I reckon Essendon will use this stalling tactic to their advantage, as they have tried to do many times during the drug fiasco. It is a given that Dodo is a [censored] to deal with.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Moonshadow

[binman 43,816]

9 hours ago, faultydet said:

Throughout the entire fiasco, I have been reading that the players can elect to leave as "delisted free agents", under the breach of care law. That means we can poach them for nothing. All it requires is that our club, and the players concerned have the backbone to advise the afl that they will exercise that right, under threat of court proceedings.

And from what I have been reading on Demonland, that's what the roadblock seems to be.

A lack of spine. Typical.

God this rubbish. The dees are run better now than at any point in the 40 plus years i have followed them.

Our club don't have the backbone? Sure we can play hardball with a trade but its not up to us to institute grievance procedures it's up to the players. 

A lack of spine? Typical? What tosh. How about you show some spine and at the next agm challenge Jackson on how weak the club is.

Edited July 13, 2016 by binman

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

11 hours ago, Nasher said:

It's more complicated than that. For some, even if they do feel duped, they'd feel duped by Hird and his cronies, not by "Essendon". "Essendon" to the players would mean the jumper they play for, the fans that love them, the good wins they've had, the fans that back them. 

For others, perhaps Hibberd, perhaps they do feel duped by "Essendon", but don't feel the need to punish Worsfold, the other players or the new administration - all of whom are totally innocent, by totally burning them.

I don't think it's as black and white as some would make out.

I could not agree more... I hate Essendon the club as much as the next guy but why people are treating this like there is a magical being at the top going by the name "Essendon" that has ruined their careers makes no sense to me. All the people who caused this problem are gone so unless you are given a better offer by another club why would you leave? If Hibberd thinks he has a better offer at Melbourne, fantastic, but i doubt it is because of "Essendon". He'll be playing where he has the biggest future (or maybe the biggest pay cheque idk what kind of person he is).

I'd like to see people shed their supporter bias for a bit and actually look at how a trade would work rather than thinking up ways just to [censored] over a team they don't like.

[ding 5,126]

Stuff the drug cheats. I say we take whatever we can from the pryks for as little as humanly possible. If there is a rule that says we can do it, why waste a second of our time worrying about how it affects Essedun. 

Would love to see both players walk for no cost to us. Lets face it, the AFL will find a way to compensate Druggendon, so why waste our resources?

If we absolutely must pay something, tell 'em its a second rounder or off to the tribunal.

Nice guys come last and we have been nice for far too long.

[daisycutter 29,743]

14 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Yes, It appears that it might be easier to go through a trade than an AFL 'make it up as they go along' grievance tribunal which could take too long and have an unclear outcome. List lodgement dates would make it important to get it done in a timely manner rather miss out altogether. I reckon Essendon will use this stalling tactic to their advantage, as they have tried to do many times during the drug fiasco. It is a given that Dodo is a [censored] to deal with.

I don't think the grievance tribunal would take a long time. If the tribunal found the contract was breached essendon could go to court, but given the desire of essendon (now) to move on I doubt they would. They'd probably threaten it, but not follow through as they would lose control over skeletons in the cupboard. however if the tribunal found the contract was not breached the player could then go to court which would be a real possibility as the player would then be in a very difficult situation. again, essendon wouldn't like this to go to court.

the other scenario is the player could just bypass the grievance tribunal and go straight to court, but i doubt anyone would do this unless there was a good reason 

all spoken as a non lawyer 

[Watts Jurrah Dunn? 735]

33 minutes ago, poita said:

Salem, Lumumba, Grimes, Garland, Wagner, White, Jetta, Hunt, Melksham, and anyone else I have forgotten. How many small / medium sized defenders do we possibly need? Yes, Hibberd might be an upgrade on some (most?) of those, but it is hardly a weak spot on our list. Why are we wasting time and effort going after a player that we don't really need? And then to go through the hassle of dealing with Essendon, by far the worst club in the competition to trade with.

We need top shelf midfielders and key position players, anything else is a distraction from the real issues. More than happy for the club to chase Hurley, but no thanks to Hibberd .

 

We know Lumumba, Grimes and Garland are NOT the answer.

The jury's out on whether Salem can handle AFL.

So that leaves Jetta (who is a great lock down defender but not a creative, damaging kick), Wagner, Hunt and White (20 games between them) and Melksham (unproven at half back and has struggled for consistency at AFL level).

I agree that it is not a screaming need but I don't think you can have enough damaging kicks around the half back/midfield region who also have a nice dose of sh*t about them.  

 

[Nasher 33,617]

23 minutes ago, ding said:

Stuff the drug cheats. I say we take whatever we can from the pryks for as little as humanly possible. If there is a rule that says we can do it, why waste a second of our time worrying about how it affects Essedun. 

Because there is no "we" in this discussion, the only person who can initiate the walk for free scenario is Hibberd, and he probably won't for the reasons outlined. I doubt the MFC gives a fat rat's clacker about how it hurts Essendon. I sure don't.

The MFC has to look after the interests of the player it is trying to recruit. I'm sure the MFC would love him to come for free and will probably say to him "how about it?", but at the end if the day if the club wants Hibberd, it should be prepared to pay as it would under normal circumstances. The responsible thing to do is start preparing for that scenario now so we are ready for it, and worry about the cheaper path when that opens up, if it does.

[DubDee 26,124]

A first rounder for Hibberd is surely a joke!?  Looking at our best back 6 I think we do need some experience and leadership, perhaps Hibberd could help here and be a bit of a general that we need.  Hunt, Wagner very young. The Macs are young and T Mac is what I call a vocal leader.

I would be happy enough to get home for a second rounder

[Willmoy1947 4,140]

Lets not forget that this will be the team next year that picks up 10 to 12 ready made AFL players for nothing next year. On top of that they will get through trade another 3 or 4 ready to go AFL standard players in transfers from other clubs, and those players will be ready to go. On top of that they will get so many top draft picks, and by the end of this year the two they got in 2016 draft will be well credentialed. This will be without the AFL lifting their clout in 2017 like they did in 2016 directing certain players to help out, which they will again.

I'll say now that they will field by mid season next year an entirely different player group. and some people on here still have a degree of sentiment for them. No place in footy for sentiment.

[tarzan16 40]

from a very good source, Hibberd a definite chance, Hurley staying, he was 50/50 up until recentley and only spoke to one other club, Melbourne, very close to Goodwin, but looks like hes decided to stay at the bombers

[beelzebub 23,383]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

The fact that so many are willing to return to Essendon validates your view.  As you say, it's not black or white,

Plays with my head. In many ways highlights their complicity.

[faultydet 7,619]

1 hour ago, binman said:

God this rubbish. The dees are run better now than at any point in the 40 plus years i have followed them.

Our club don't have the backbone? Sure we can play hardball with a trade but its not up to us to institute grievance procedures it's up to the players. 

A lack of spine? Typical? What tosh. How about you show some spine and at the next agm challenge Jackson on how weak the club is.

urgh, what a pointless thing to do.

Showing some spine, would be the Dees trying to convince Hibberd or whoever else that is drug affected, to go through the supposedly legal process of getting across to us without having to pay. Its quite simple. Anything to avoid dealing with Dodo the greedy.

You have heard that essedon is said to be in the process of doing a vaguely similar, but underhanded action with a Brisbane player?

If you want to get stronger, you need to use the rules to your advantage. There is a rule, and I hope Melbourne can convince Hibberd to use it.

[JTR 2,856]

Disclaimer:  I don't pay a lot of attention to opposition players so following may be inaccurate.

Re Hibberd, isn't he the one that can only play off his left and has basically no right side?  

If so, can we carry another such player seeing as we already have a couple like that?

Edited July 13, 2016 by JTR

[jackaub 1,402]

Can someone explain to me why we all of a sudden are going after Hibberd apparently. Why another Essendon player after Milkshake who used up pick 27 for zero return this year

What is the strategy and thinking.Is it only because the new coach had a relationship with the Essendon players

If we get Hibberd, he and Milkshake better be great players for the Dees or Goodwin will look a little unprofessional and perhaps a poor judge.

[Lucifers Hero 40,364]

29 minutes ago, jackaub said:

Can someone explain to me why we all of a sudden are going after Hibberd apparently. Why another Essendon player after Milkshake who used up pick 27 for zero return this year

What is the strategy and thinking.Is it only because the new coach had a relationship with the Essendon players

If we get Hibberd, he and Milkshake better be great players for the Dees or Goodwin will look a little unprofessional and perhaps a poor judge.

I have a similar concern that we may be committing to players with a Goodwin relationship a long way out to EOS or trade time.  The risk is we have 'blinkers' on to other prospects that may become available and not necessarily using the best criteria for player selection.  Not saying they can't play or won't fit in but would prefer we see signs of mfc looking elsewhere as well.  We may have tried, I don't know.  While relationships are obviously critical that doesn't extend to mateship, if there are better options for the team.  I recall an interview with Goodwin last year on Melksham and it sounded like he 'pulled rank' on Taylor. 

TBH I would rather extract a defender from a good recent finals team to get Finals experience into the team rather than one similar to those we have, whose team has wallowed on the bottom of the ladder for a long time, in the worst of circumstances.  They have their own set of 'mental scars' and we don't need any more such players.  I get the new club can refresh players, view but as has been seen at mfc a 'looser mentality' can be very difficult to dislodge.  Also, its not as if EFC had any sort of decent defence even when Goodwin and McCartney were there for those players to bring anything particularly special.

In summary, would prefer to keep our powder dry or have irons in several fires before we 'commit' to any player or eggs in one basket. 

Edited July 13, 2016 by Lucifer's Hero