It's the players, not the coach(es)!

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Bailey.

Neeld.

Roos.

Interim coaches.

A bevvy of coaches, yet the same old Melbourne keeps popping up. There is a common trend here, and here is a hint; it aint the coaches.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,289]

We have changed a sh itload of players over that time Song. So it is not just them.

There is some sort of malaise at this club. We lack a culture. A soul.

TBH, I reckon we are about fu cked. We have tried everything and remain at the bottom of the mullock heap.

[P-man 13,366]

Sure, but the lack of offense is beyond alarming. It's bizarre. We can't kick a goal.

[DemonOX 8,826]

Sure, but the lack of offense is beyond alarming. It's bizarre. We can't kick a goal.

Or a team mate.

[KingDingAling 3,758]

It is the players I agree.

We simply do not have the talent.

We've shanked some great opportunities through the draft.

Tyson has developed arguably better under MFC - than at GWS.

Nath Jones is a high draft pick who has maximised his talent - whilst others have floundered.

Maybe those others just simply werent' that good to start with...

[leucopogon 1,519]

Seems like it would be more advantageous for MFC to delist every player and start again with the same advantages of the expansion teams. Of course this will never happen, and in all likelihood, we will continue to wallow, with each successive crop of draftees being infected with the contagion that is endemic in this club....until?

AFL and other successful clubs get sick of bailing us out from making a loss each year and goes back onto our members to bail us out (a la debt demolition), and then we will fold as our jaded members cannot afford to keep bailing out the club. Looks pretty grim unless there are some Saudi oil barons waiting in the wings to keep us afloat.

Not quite sure what will happen. If AFL wants an 18 team comp, then what good will merging us do? they'll have to do two mergers probably us and GWS and Bulldogs and Gold coast I would think.

That's the way I see it panning out and will unfold probably around about 2017 or 2018 when the succession plan coach turns out to be a failure

[dee-luded 2,959]

Bailey.

Neeld.

Roos.

Interim coaches.

A bevvy of coaches, yet the same old Melbourne keeps popping up. There is a common trend here, and here is a hint; it aint the coaches.

We have changed a sh itload of players over that time Song. So it is not just them.

There is some sort of malaise at this club. We lack a culture. A soul.

TBH, I reckon we are about fu cked. We have tried everything and remain at the bottom of the mullock heap.

the ' C ' word/s.

we are not even black & white, just black atmo.

[dee-luded 2,959]

It is the players I agree.

We simply do not have the talent.

We've shanked some great opportunities through the draft.

Tyson has developed arguably better under MFC - than at GWS.

Nath Jones is a high draft pick who has maximised his talent - whilst others have floundered.

Maybe those others just simply werent' that good to start with...

or just didn't have the desire within themselves to shape their careers, irrespective of others socialising about them.

Jones would go well in any environment, Tyson has a second chance to resurrect his career, and is doing just that. too many are just plodding along getting paid, & don't care enough about winning.

[What 18,810]

There is some sort of malaise at this club. We lack a culture. A soul.

And has anyone in the front office done any investigation into why this is, or are they just waiting around for it to magically be fixed like a pack of morons?

The latter it seems

[ignition. 1,478]

How did the list get like that?

Bailey was too blase' with the players, they lacked fitness and structure while twits like Connolly promoted tanking (thanks Prendegast, you did good with the additional picks.....). As this occured the CEO Schwab had his head too far in the past whilst trying to micromanage everything, releasing the annual business plan online known as "Whiteboard Wednesday" off the back of some rubbish book, he also spent erratically. And yet the board was constantly split and leaking everywhere.

The players (mature one in particular) run wild after hours constantly visiting Chapel St, new young players came in and what better way to introduce them to the club was by having a bender. Big Max'ey Gawn spewed all over Scully in China and LJ began to hit the booze hard.... ahhhh they were the days.... good times, and what better compliment to know you were really in with the boys by getting on "Beamer's Bumps and Bruises". Sylvia, Beamer, Russian, and Rivers truly led to the appalling player culture you see today.

Then came along Neeld, the hard ass we needed to whip the place into shape - too bad he was a moron. He completely lacked the ability to innovate, communicate and build the appropriate relationships with players and staff - particularly those that would of helped rebuild a positive culture like Green, instead he stripped him of his captaincy and had him retire. He also ignored those that could actually help him take the club forward, like that of T. Viney and recruiting staff wanting to draft Wines over Toumpas. The moron Neeld didn't even write his one and only B&F speech, most of that was written off the back of a fans email.

Now you try and bring Roos into it, trying to place him in the same light as Bailey and Neeld, I ask why?

All I can say is for once I am pleased with the clubs structure, I see unity and professionalism amongst the staff. If the club is to go forward it will be because of the likes of Roos and PJ. Yes the list is still in tatters but there will be a big turnover at the end of the season and my word I look forward to seeing what unfolds.

[KingDingAling 3,758]

How did the list get like that?

Bailey was too blase' with the players, they lacked fitness and structure while twits like Connolly promoted tanking (thanks Prendegast, you did good with the additional picks.....). As this occured the CEO Schwab had his head too far in the past whilst trying to micromanage everything, releasing the annual business plan online known as "Whiteboard Wednesday" off the back of some rubbish book, he also spent erratically. And yet the board was constantly split and leaking everywhere.

The players (mature one in particular) run wild after hours constantly visiting Chapel St, new young players came in and what better way to introduce them to the club was by having a bender. Big Max'ey Gawn spewed all over Scully in China and LJ began to hit the booze hard.... ahhhh they were the days.... good times, and what better compliment to know you were really in with the boys by getting on "Beamer's Bumps and Bruises". Sylvia, Beamer, Russian, and Rivers truly led to the appalling player culture you see today.

Then came along Neeld, the hard ass we needed to whip the place into shape - too bad he was a moron. He completely lacked the ability to innovate, communicate and build the appropriate relationships with players and staff - particularly those that would of helped rebuild a positive culture like Green, instead he stripped him of his captaincy and had him retire. He also ignored those that could actually help him take the club forward, like that of T. Viney and recruiting staff wanting to draft Wines over Toumpas. The moron Neeld didn't even write his one and only B&F speech, most of that was written off the back of a fans email.

Now you try and bring Roos into it, trying to place him in the same light as Bailey and Neeld, I ask why?

All I can say is for once I am pleased with the clubs structure, I see unity and professionalism amongst the staff. If the club is to go forward it will be because of the likes of Roos and PJ. Yes the list is still in tatters but there will be a big turnover at the end of the season and my word I look forward to seeing what unfolds.

That is one of the best posts I've read in my time here.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

How did the list get like that?

Bailey was too blase' with the players, they lacked fitness and structure while twits like Connolly promoted tanking (thanks Prendegast, you did good with the additional picks.....). As this occured the CEO Schwab had his head too far in the past whilst trying to micromanage everything, releasing the annual business plan online known as "Whiteboard Wednesday" off the back of some rubbish book, he also spent erratically. And yet the board was constantly split and leaking everywhere.

The players (mature one in particular) run wild after hours constantly visiting Chapel St, new young players came in and what better way to introduce them to the club was by having a bender. Big Max'ey Gawn spewed all over Scully in China and LJ began to hit the booze hard.... ahhhh they were the days.... good times, and what better compliment to know you were really in with the boys by getting on "Beamer's Bumps and Bruises". Sylvia, Beamer, Russian, and Rivers truly led to the appalling player culture you see today.

Then came along Neeld, the hard ass we needed to whip the place into shape - too bad he was a moron. He completely lacked the ability to innovate, communicate and build the appropriate relationships with players and staff - particularly those that would of helped rebuild a positive culture like Green, instead he stripped him of his captaincy and had him retire. He also ignored those that could actually help him take the club forward, like that of T. Viney and recruiting staff wanting to draft Wines over Toumpas. The moron Neeld didn't even write his one and only B&F speech, most of that was written off the back of a fans email.

Now you try and bring Roos into it, trying to place him in the same light as Bailey and Neeld, I ask why?

All I can say is for once I am pleased with the clubs structure, I see unity and professionalism amongst the staff. If the club is to go forward it will be because of the likes of Roos and PJ. Yes the list is still in tatters but there will be a big turnover at the end of the season and my word I look forward to seeing what unfolds.

Pleaze don't think I am placing Roos in the same league as the other 2. I am so wrapped with him. I'm just saying that it is time these players share the blame, particularly in the past.

[Davos 923]

How did the list get like that?

Bailey was too blase' with the players, they lacked fitness and structure while twits like Connolly promoted tanking (thanks Prendegast, you did good with the additional picks.....). As this occured the CEO Schwab had his head too far in the past whilst trying to micromanage everything, releasing the annual business plan online known as "Whiteboard Wednesday" off the back of some rubbish book, he also spent erratically. And yet the board was constantly split and leaking everywhere.

The players (mature one in particular) run wild after hours constantly visiting Chapel St, new young players came in and what better way to introduce them to the club was by having a bender. Big Max'ey Gawn spewed all over Scully in China and LJ began to hit the booze hard.... ahhhh they were the days.... good times, and what better compliment to know you were really in with the boys by getting on "Beamer's Bumps and Bruises". Sylvia, Beamer, Russian, and Rivers truly led to the appalling player culture you see today.

Then came along Neeld, the hard ass we needed to whip the place into shape - too bad he was a moron. He completely lacked the ability to innovate, communicate and build the appropriate relationships with players and staff - particularly those that would of helped rebuild a positive culture like Green, instead he stripped him of his captaincy and had him retire. He also ignored those that could actually help him take the club forward, like that of T. Viney and recruiting staff wanting to draft Wines over Toumpas. The moron Neeld didn't even write his one and only B&F speech, most of that was written off the back of a fans email.

Now you try and bring Roos into it, trying to place him in the same light as Bailey and Neeld, I ask why?

All I can say is for once I am pleased with the clubs structure, I see unity and professionalism amongst the staff. If the club is to go forward it will be because of the likes of Roos and PJ. Yes the list is still in tatters but there will be a big turnover at the end of the season and my word I look forward to seeing what unfolds.

"Gawn spewed all over Scully in China".

Lost my [censored].

[chook fowler 19,693]

I think Roos was spot on when asked about the game plan when he said effectively any game plan requires the basic skill of being able to hit a target. We don't have players with the know how to perform at AFL level. That goes back to our coaching structure over the past few years. No option but to turn the list over yet again.

[Roger Mellie 4,157]

How did the list get like that?

Bailey was too blase' with the players, they lacked fitness and structure while twits like Connolly promoted tanking (thanks Prendegast, you did good with the additional picks.....). As this occured the CEO Schwab had his head too far in the past whilst trying to micromanage everything, releasing the annual business plan online known as "Whiteboard Wednesday" off the back of some rubbish book, he also spent erratically. And yet the board was constantly split and leaking everywhere.

The players (mature one in particular) run wild after hours constantly visiting Chapel St, new young players came in and what better way to introduce them to the club was by having a bender. Big Max'ey Gawn spewed all over Scully in China and LJ began to hit the booze hard.... ahhhh they were the days.... good times, and what better compliment to know you were really in with the boys by getting on "Beamer's Bumps and Bruises". Sylvia, Beamer, Russian, and Rivers truly led to the appalling player culture you see today.

Then came along Neeld, the hard ass we needed to whip the place into shape - too bad he was a moron. He completely lacked the ability to innovate, communicate and build the appropriate relationships with players and staff - particularly those that would of helped rebuild a positive culture like Green, instead he stripped him of his captaincy and had him retire. He also ignored those that could actually help him take the club forward, like that of T. Viney and recruiting staff wanting to draft Wines over Toumpas. The moron Neeld didn't even write his one and only B&F speech, most of that was written off the back of a fans email.

Now you try and bring Roos into it, trying to place him in the same light as Bailey and Neeld, I ask why?

All I can say is for once I am pleased with the clubs structure, I see unity and professionalism amongst the staff. If the club is to go forward it will be because of the likes of Roos and PJ. Yes the list is still in tatters but there will be a big turnover at the end of the season and my word I look forward to seeing what unfolds.

You forgot to add the bit about giving the task of recruitment to BP rather than someone with a recruiting background - brilliant!

[Demon Disciple 12,416]

Bailey.

Neeld.

Roos.

Interim coaches.

A bevvy of coaches, yet the same old Melbourne keeps popping up. There is a common trend here, and here is a hint; it aint the coaches.

I'll bite. What do all coaches have in common? They've all coached Jack Watts. He's the problem, LOL.

But in all seriousness, yes it is the playing group (or members within that have kept on falling through the delist cracks) and their pathetic will power to play it moment by moment, contest by contest.

I'll be glad when Frawley goes, because he is a massive part of that weak mentality, so too is Watts but he seems to be Paul Roos' pet. And Dawes needs to find his early season form over the pre-season, or he is just taking up space.

[Guest]

Not that Roos is not unaccountable but keep in mind who he bought in with him.

George Stone (life member at 2 clubs and has experienced premierships at both)

Brett Allison (been a development coach at Sydney and North)

Sadly, Neeld, while being a rookie, was surrounded by neophytes with the exception of Neil Craig.

Most of the blokes coaching us now (besides Brad Miller) have been in the system for a while.

The sacred cows need to be looked at and looked at bloody hard. Jack Grimes, Jack Watts, Tom McDonald (I couldn't believe he fluffed that goal in the 2nd. When will someone tell him to know his bloody limitations?) and Colin Garland. They need to be looked at as genuine trade bait.

On top of that, the NQR's (Strauss, Blease, Tapscott, Nicholson, Evans etc) need to either be traded at best or de-listed/sacked at worst.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Colin B. Flaubert

[RalphiusMaximus 6,101]

Bailey.

Neeld.

Roos.

Interim coaches.

A bevvy of coaches, yet the same old Melbourne keeps popping up. There is a common trend here, and here is a hint; it aint the coaches.

I think Bailey can be blamed quite a lot actually. It was his plan to renew the list through the draft by dumping our most experienced players and playing kids. He advocated taking slight kids with pace and skills and training them up to be footballers, leading to Strauss, Blease, Bennell, Gysberts, HHMNBN, Lukas Cook (not fast, but fits the profile) and Daniel Nicholson. None of them ever turned into AFL footballers. He also inherited several high draft picks who failed to develop at all during his tenure, and in some cases went backwards. I think the systematic destruction of our list during his tenure is largely to blame for the massive mess we now find ourselves in.

[Tatu 416]

Frawley 8 touches and Dawes 10 touches? Jeez...

[P-man 13,366]

Dawes has been woeful for a while now. Looking like a bust at present. Can't mark and can't kick.

[titan_uranus 25,063]

How did the list get like that?

Bailey was too blase' with the players, they lacked fitness and structure while twits like Connolly promoted tanking (thanks Prendegast, you did good with the additional picks.....). As this occured the CEO Schwab had his head too far in the past whilst trying to micromanage everything, releasing the annual business plan online known as "Whiteboard Wednesday" off the back of some rubbish book, he also spent erratically. And yet the board was constantly split and leaking everywhere.

The players (mature one in particular) run wild after hours constantly visiting Chapel St, new young players came in and what better way to introduce them to the club was by having a bender. Big Max'ey Gawn spewed all over Scully in China and LJ began to hit the booze hard.... ahhhh they were the days.... good times, and what better compliment to know you were really in with the boys by getting on "Beamer's Bumps and Bruises". Sylvia, Beamer, Russian, and Rivers truly led to the appalling player culture you see today.

Then came along Neeld, the hard ass we needed to whip the place into shape - too bad he was a moron. He completely lacked the ability to innovate, communicate and build the appropriate relationships with players and staff - particularly those that would of helped rebuild a positive culture like Green, instead he stripped him of his captaincy and had him retire. He also ignored those that could actually help him take the club forward, like that of T. Viney and recruiting staff wanting to draft Wines over Toumpas. The moron Neeld didn't even write his one and only B&F speech, most of that was written off the back of a fans email.

Now you try and bring Roos into it, trying to place him in the same light as Bailey and Neeld, I ask why?

All I can say is for once I am pleased with the clubs structure, I see unity and professionalism amongst the staff. If the club is to go forward it will be because of the likes of Roos and PJ. Yes the list is still in tatters but there will be a big turnover at the end of the season and my word I look forward to seeing what unfolds.

Good post. The damage that the previous two administrations (Bailey and Neeld) did to this club cannot be unravelled in one year.

Nonetheless, some of the issues that came to the fore today, like badly repressed memories, I thought we'd moved past. I'm shocked that they're still there, even taking into account everything you've discussed.

[titan_uranus 25,063]

Dawes has been woeful for a while now. Looking like a bust at present. Can't mark and can't kick.

Whilst I agree that he's struggled, being a forward in our side is impossible.

He doesn't take many marks because the ball is kicked above him, or at his feet. He doesn't kick many goals because he's being sucked up the ground too much.

There is simply no comparison between how we deliver the ball to our forwards and how the other 17 clubs do it. I guarantee you almost every forward out there, from Franklin to Spencer White, would be a shadow of their current selves at Melbourne.

Despite all that, his field kicking is shocking and he's had people running around him far too often on the rebound. His goal kicking has been good all year though; need to keep him a bit closer to goal IMO (prevent him trying to pass the ball). But most of all, we need to give him a chance.

[Whispering_Jack 31,066]

My two bob's worth is that if there's one thing we've learned in our recent history it has to be that the people at the head of a club need to stand up and be accountable.

In terms of football matters, that means the coach. We all have our theories about the ills of this club and there's no doubt a ring of truth to most of them but in my view, the current situation we're faced with after making some promising progress early is that in concentrating on making our team stronger defensively, we've put such little emphasis on the attacking side of our game that we've completely lost the ability to score.

This was clear a fortnight ago when we were clearly the better team for more than three quarters against Brisbane but our inability to convert kept the Lions in the game to the point where they overcame us by going all out attack while we defended to try to save a game that was there for the winning.

What did the coach do after the game?

He attacked the club and the players raising past ghosts like "tanking" and "culture" and opening the floodgates for negative thinking throughout the club. The media got into the game as well and soon everyone was talking about Daniher, Bailey, Neeld, Schwab, McLardy our poor recruiting etc etc ad infinitum.

Those things should not have been the agenda at that particular time. What was wrong with the coach saying, "look, I'll take the blame. We've spent a lot of time this year emphasising one aspect of our game. We now need to work on other areas to get ourselves up to the standard we require." That's how I saw things but obviously, I was wrong.

The message the coach gave us was, "not my fault at all. They're terrible. Blame someone else".

Whilst all that may be true, it had the same ring of denial that we've criticised James Hird for over the Essendon scandals and the result was predictable.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

I like what you said WJ. A few things Roos has said have been worrying... There is no point trying to pin the blame on anyone it'd counter productive. But that is no excuse to drop your head on the field.

From my POV we are taking this rebuild in steps to try rebuild. I just think the season has gotten too long for some players and they can't meet the two way running demands.

If we are in this same spot next year I really will be worried. I expect after another preseason with Roosy we can turn some of these close losses in to wins

[Waltham33 475]

The replacement coach is ultra critical because by the end of the Roos coaching term, at best e will have created the gameplan for success and attained the players to execute that gameplan. I have said it before I think only 5 players on the list are untouchable currently.