Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[monoccular 17,305]

Francis Leach adds his views on the situation as ASADA continues to come under fire Drugs in sport: One year on, its just one big joke but, whilst the length of time taken to complete the investigation is a source of frustration to many, I don't believe ASADA is under an obligation to allow this to be played out publicly any more than does the ACC whose investigation into organised crime and the importation of illegal drugs prompted all this.

Every once in a while we read about a major bust netting $millions of illegal drugs - these are often the product of lengthy investigations by crime authorities and nobody bats an eyelid. But because the subject matter involves prominent sporting clubs and their employee players we demand to be informed before the investigations are finalised. There may well be good reasons why this should not be the case.

Well stated WJ.

A wise man once said to me, as I agitated for an immediate response to a complex question: "Do you want the quick answer, or the right answer?"

[monoccular 17,305]

14 people in the AFL Integrity department, and one in the Melbourne office of ASADA.

Do they need so many as there are so many areas in question?? Scheduling, tribunal and MRP, equalisation, drafts and salary caps, three strikes policy etc etc etc

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

14 people in the AFL Integrity department, and one in the Melbourne office of ASADA.

Gives you an indication why the early part of the investigation was done jointly by the AFL and ASADA.

ASADA don't have the resources to investigate one club matter let alone two concurrently ( EFC and Cronulla)

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Do they need so many as there are so many areas in question?? Scheduling, tribunal and MRP, equalisation, drafts and salary caps, three strikes policy etc etc etc

Given the potential sources of game corruption, drug taking and other illegal activity trying to penetrate the game, the question really should be do they have enough resources to properly police these matters.

[Sir Why You Little 36,569]

Francis Leach adds his views on the situation as ASADA continues to come under fire Drugs in sport: One year on, its just one big joke but, whilst the length of time taken to complete the investigation is a source of frustration to many, I don't believe ASADA is under an obligation to allow this to be played out publicly any more than does the ACC whose investigation into organised crime and the importation of illegal drugs prompted all this.

Every once in a while we read about a major bust netting $millions of illegal drugs - these are often the product of lengthy investigations by crime authorities and nobody bats an eyelid. But because the subject matter involves prominent sporting clubs and their employee players we demand to be informed before the investigations are finalised. There may well be good reasons why this should not be the case.

I agree WJ but i think the public have issues with a black cloud still hanging over Essendrug going into the 2014 season.

It is most irritating but ASADA must not compromise this.

[Whispering_Jack 29,075]

I agree WJ but i think the public have issues with a black cloud still hanging over Essendrug going into the 2014 season.

It is most irritating but ASADA must not compromise this.

How about the world cycling public who believed for more than a decade the Lance Armstrong was clean?

14 people in the AFL Integrity department, and one in the Melbourne office of ASADA.

There are a lot more ASADA staff in Sydney and the organisation also has access to legal advice (aside for the recently appointed judge) but that figure obviously explains the dilemma and the fact that the investigation appears to have become Sydneycentric - WADA may not believe fanciful tale of two cities.

Masters makes some good points here and in particular the question why the investigation has barely touched Dank's involvement at Gold Coast is particularly vexing, especially given the AFL's involvement in the early part of the investigation and the fact that the AFL has such a stake in the Suns becoming successful.

[sue 8,991]

I like the phrase about Dank in Masters' article:

"after a regime of vial and error"

The pun on 'trial and error' is good, but I wonder if he also intended a pun on 'vile' which describes Essendon's treatment of its players accurately.

[biggestred 4,764]

great article from masters!

[binman 41,906]

In today's article a full page spread by Robinson in the hun about the palaver. Like Leach focusing on the length of time this is taking and the lack of answers (including a final swipe at the AFL - specifically the CEO and commission chairman - about the so called secret deal with Wylie).

I just don't get how anyone, let alone a journalist would seriously have thought this would not take a really long time, given the complexity of the issue, the resources at ASADA's disposal and the precedent of any number of other investigations into performance enhancing drugs - both here and overseas. Where ASADA have been a bit stupid i reckon is not making this clear.

By the by i can't believe the hun made Robbo head footy writer. Perhaps he's a good bloke but he is simpy a woeful writer and to think he is the heir to Sheehan is an insult to Mike

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Agree Binman on Robbo.

I don't think journalists or the public could comprehend just how long such things take.

Only cycling and aths fans have any real exposure to the drug testing phase.

[beelzebub 23,168]

There is a great irony on claims by Murdoch media companies that other organizations are secretive, lacking integrity or are biased.

you had me at this..

how those tappings going ol' Rupe

[Little Goffy 13,937]

I wonder... does anyone else think maybe the reason people are impatient and cynical about the ASADA process could have something to do with AFL HQ's often knee-jerk and highly political responses to issues? Or their cultural lack of transparency, fiefdom-building bureaucrats, and blanket-cover spin efforts?

The fish rots from the head.

[Return to Glory 8,203]

Francis Leach adds his views on the situation as ASADA continues to come under fire Drugs in sport: One year on, its just one big joke but, whilst the length of time taken to complete the investigation is a source of frustration to many, I don't believe ASADA is under an obligation to allow this to be played out publicly any more than does the ACC whose investigation into organised crime and the importation of illegal drugs prompted all this.

Every once in a while we read about a major bust netting $millions of illegal drugs - these are often the product of lengthy investigations by crime authorities and nobody bats an eyelid. But because the subject matter involves prominent sporting clubs and their employee players we demand to be informed before the investigations are finalised. There may well be good reasons why this should not be the case.

Whispering, what about the maxim that justice must not only be done but be sen to be done? I'm at a loss to pinpoint how Essendon have been brought to task.

[binman 41,906]

Whispering, what about the maxim that justice must not only be done but be sen to be done? I'm at a loss to pinpoint how Essendon have been brought to task.

Really? The bombers got smashed with the penalties they received

[rumpole 510]

Whispering, what about the maxim that justice must not only be done but be sen to be done? I'm at a loss to pinpoint how Essendon have been brought to task.

If you're at such a loss, have a look at their own internal report and look at the charges laid against them. So far, they've been lucky as far as I can see.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Really? The bombers got smashed with the penalties they received

You are kidding.

The penalties to date have been the least of Essendon's worries. A minor cosmetic touch up.

The lack of legal standing of AFL rules in the Courts and the threat of drawn out legal battles means that the AFL has given them a slap on the wrist.

Hird is still being paid $1m a year and will be back coaching ...apparently. This years coach Thompson had no idea as performance coach about the supplement program....and got a light financial touch up. And the Hird hero worshipping good Dr Reid is back at work as usual.....

For the sake of the players good health I hope ASADA can piece together what went on in the lab and those who should have been brought to account are punished and removed from the game. But I am not confident that will happen.

[Blistering 536]

On a lighter note, ASADA's CEO Aurora Andruska writes to all sports fans (at least I think its on a lighter note).

[TRIGON 4,768]

"Hird will return a better person" ???

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-chairman-says-hird-will-return-a-better-person-20140207-327l8.html

[dees189227 12,017]

Can you imagine next season when the golden boy returns. The media and essenscum fans will be in hysterics. Interesting to read Paul Little say we arent friends.

So am I guessing that everyone has forgotten about melbournes name being bought up and trengove using this so called cream. Are we not being investigated anymore?

[hoopla 418]

Francis Leach adds his views on the situation as ASADA continues to come under fire Drugs in sport: One year on, its just one big joke but, whilst the length of time taken to complete the investigation is a source of frustration to many, I don't believe ASADA is under an obligation to allow this to be played out publicly any more than does the ACC whose investigation into organised crime and the importation of illegal drugs prompted all this.

Every once in a while we read about a major bust netting $millions of illegal drugs - these are often the product of lengthy investigations by crime authorities and nobody bats an eyelid. But because the subject matter involves prominent sporting clubs and their employee players we demand to be informed before the investigations are finalised. There may well be good reasons why this should not be the case.

I rarely take issue with WJ's well considered posts - but in this case I think he dismisses Francis Leach's views a little too lightly.

It is true that people don't "bat an eyelid" when "long drawn out" criminal, investigations lead to major drug busts - but these are investigations into continuing activities involving people whose habits, relationships, circumstances etc are either unchanged or camouflaged. Essendon's "questionable" behaviour was for a finite period lead by individuals who have already been sanctioned and/or publicly ridiculed.

If at some time in the future ASADA issues an infraction notice against Jobe Watson, it will almost certainly cite his public confession as a pivotal piece of evidence. It is stretching the bounds of probability to accept that there are good reasons to have allowed him to lead his club into a second season without the sniff of a charge despite that confession. ASADA's over-riding role is to remove the stain of potential drug abuse from Australian sport. Last year I was prepared to accept that the delay was part of a strategy to ensnare Stephen Dank - but if it is - it is increasingly looking like a flawed one!

If ASADA agrees that Watson's "confessed drug" was not illegal at the time, then it should have said so long ago

[biggestred 4,764]

there is a lot of doubt RE AOD - in the case of trengove he had a cream, and not weekly injections (which there is doubt over).

it is possible to have a cream based on something that is fine as a cream but not ok when injected - obviously there is a lot more of the active ingredient in the blood stream when injected!

[sue 8,991]

there is a lot of doubt RE AOD - in the case of trengove he had a cream, and not weekly injections (which there is doubt over).

it is possible to have a cream based on something that is fine as a cream but not ok when injected - obviously there is a lot more of the active ingredient in the blood stream when injected!

Was there any evidence that he actually got the cream let alone used it? I can't recall the text message quoted, but wasn't it more along the lines of 'go and get some'?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

there is a lot of doubt RE AOD - in the case of trengove he had a cream, and not weekly injections (which there is doubt over).

it is possible to have a cream based on something that is fine as a cream but not ok when injected - obviously there is a lot more of the active ingredient in the blood stream when injected!

I am no medical person but If the cream contains the same prohibited substances that appear in the syringe then how can that be Ok?

Yes I know putting a chemical directly into the blood stream is likely to have a quicker effect than cream on a skin but if they both contain the prohibited substance...........

Was there any evidence that he actually got the cream let alone used it? I can't recall the text message quoted, but wasn't it more along the lines of 'go and get some'?

I think that's something for ASADA to determine. It's not clear from information in the public forum.

[John Crow Batty 8,763]

I am no medical person but If the cream contains the same prohibited substances that appear in the syringe then how can that be Ok?

Yes I know putting a chemical directly into the blood stream is likely to have a quicker effect than cream on a skin but if they both contain the prohibited substance...........

I think that's something for ASADA to determine. It's not clear from information in the public forum.

Its all a matter of absorption. There are many different ways for taking drugs. There would be no cream if was not effective for the desired effect.

[rjay 24,567]

I am no medical person but If the cream contains the same prohibited substances that appear in the syringe then how can that be Ok?

Yes I know putting a chemical directly into the blood stream is likely to have a quicker effect than cream on a skin but if they both contain the prohibited substance...........

I think that's something for ASADA to determine. It's not clear from information in the public forum.

I'm not sure the substance itself was prohibited. I think it was part of a list of things not yet approved for human use which in effect made it prohibited in the catch all.

Why I raise this is that the cream was being sold for human use in pharmacies as some kind of miracle cream. I don't know whether this then makes the cream legal in a sporting sense or it was being sold under some other loophole.

Would appreciate if anyone knows if the cream was in fact cleared for human use and if that means even if a player used it ....if....then he is clear anyway.