Leaderboard

Just finished the latest Demonland podcast, which was excellent as always from @Demonland, @george_on_the_outer, and @binman(presumably all Demonlanders who podcast are loyal listeners, and if not, shame on you), and wanted to put my two cents in on the subject of injury timelines. The first thing, maybe obvious but easily forgotten, is that no injury has certainty in respect to return time. It’s a highly imperfect science. As an example, take Steven May’s PF hamstring tear last year. ‘Industry rule’ is that there’s no such thing as a ‘less than 3 week hamstring’. May had a big tear… 6 cm I think was quoted, but uncomplicated. That he returned in 2 weeks is exceptional (as were the circumstances of course), and that he didn’t worsen the tear in the game (statistically a much higher risk) also exceptional. Another situation could just as easily present a 3cm uncomplicated tear that doesn’t allow a return inside 5 weeks. That would be unexpected, but not outside normal variability. Think too about what we (the world, INCLUDING Steven May) were told, which was effectively nothing other than that he would undergo a fitness test pre-GF. Was it back-related, muscular, neuropathic, who knew? Only a select few, and nobody outside the club. It served the club and Maysie very well. This speaks to two things…..the unknowns and variables contributing to full recovery, and the need to nuance expectations. In this case it was not letting the player, his teammates, the media (can you imagine the circus?), the supporters (imagine too the meltdown) and the opposition know what he was dealing with. Again, served the club brilliantly. From a rehab professional’s perspective, the path to full recovery is rarely completely linear - in obedience to expectations and thus predicted timelines. Accurate predictions happen, and we love those situations obviously, but we’re always only working from a pool of ‘like’ injuries and outcomes. On a long enough timeline, injuries/pathologies/surgical interventions fall into patterns, but their behaviours thereafter adhere only to an inevitable bell curve, regardless of expertise in treating and managing the recovery. Sad to say, but when the club says the dreaded 4-6 weeks, they really mean 3-10 (or more) to encompass the ends of the bell curve, and that’s without unexpected but possible associated complications that can arise from the initiation injuring - think a calf tear changing the weight-bearing biomechanical chain that could create a back problem. Even the most objectively definable injuries (a simple transverse fracture, let’s say mid-radius - forearm bone - which follows a 4 week bony ‘union’ and 8 week ‘consolidation’ (actually it’s not even that simple) are prone to variability and complication. That said, we love ACL reconstructions (which again are not linear) because 95% are game ready by 12 months - it’s a long timeline that allows resolution of various issues that often crop up during rehab. The biggest issues, and the ones I think where @binman is asking for improvement (on the podcast), are transparency in respect to diagnosis (read reason/injury), progress, and then ‘honest’ expectations of weeks to game ready. The last issue I’ve talked about. It’s essentially unknown, and there can only be a running prediction based on relative progress. This is why the club tell us when there’s a ‘test’…..means they’re getting very close. Diagnosis is tricky, particularly when it’s not simple. Initially, how much do you want to know, and do you promise to not consult Dr. Google or go reciting so-and-so who had the ‘same’ diagnosis and was a) out for the season, b) never played again, or c) was game ready earlier than the club is saying for player X? Helps nobody. All injuries are essentially unique at source, and subject to differences along the journey to recovery. It helps nobody when media/fans are scrutinising expectations and progress based on no knowledge of that player’s day to day changes (or morning to arvo changes!). It’s hard enough managing player expectations (‘indestructible’ twenty-somethings whose livelihood is being threatened) let alone the larger football world. Harry Petty had a calf corky. I’ve explained in another thread what the complication to this might have been. If you want the club to explain this in detail, and why his recovery is more protracted, then expect it to be a very fluid day to day process. Should the club provide daily updates, even when they can’t be more accurate about likely game readiness? Or should they give the best info they have about likely game return without delving into details that don’t change anything, not forgetting there are issues of privacy and a tactical need to keep some things close to their chest? I suspect there’s a tendency firstly to resort to feelings that sometimes the club doesn’t respect the supporters enough to offer comprehensive explanations, even when it doesn’t change the ‘4-6’ prognosis, secondly that they’re hiding some sinister weirdness about the player’s injury (wouldn’t be like supporters/media to catastrophise of course). Worse still, I’ve often read people suggesting the medicos, physios, conditioning staff must ‘not know what they’re doing’ - mostly when we’re not winning premierships 😜. In summary, there are mostly excellent, ordinary reasons for opacity around injury/return timeframes. Otherwise, put simply, you can’t please all the people all the time - even with depth and detail of information.

Jeepers this thread is the Demonland of old. We have five best 22 players out, including four from the backline. We had A-grade players down on form (Gawn, Trac, May). We were horribly inaccurate early. We were off a six day break from a humid GC game. But we scored 99 and won by 5 goals. That’s a remarkable win IMO. We are supposed to be dropping games right now with our outs - remember Richmond in one of their flag years lost a stack of games early when they had injuries but rallied late? Essendon flooded back and dragged us down to their level. Teams are going to do that and when we’re not perfect we won’t blow teams away each week. @praha’s got this 100% right. Oliver outstanding, Brayshaw fantastic whilst being played out of position. Loved Jordon’s run, and Weideman surely pushes TMac out next week. Problems of course - the Hunt, Tomlinson, Smith trio are no good in the same backline and all three at times struggled tonight. Pickett’s struggling to get involved on offence, but his defence is still there. Spargo is sort of everywhere and nowhere. And Gawn’s badly out of form IMO. But honestly, we’re 3-0, already knocked off two of last year’s finalists and a 2022 finals contender, and we have seriously good cavalry to come back. This is happy days, not sad.

No way mate. You’ve just forgotten what losses feel like.

Massive shout out to Harmes' 2 third quarter goals. Very important.

20 marks for Gus!!! Wow…

Some of you are absolutely cooked. I'm sorry but that was a fantastic game. Professional. Composed. Never gave in to the Essendon pizazz. They kept nibbling at us all game and we just went to another level each time. Great teams always win those type of games by 5-7 goals. Essendon isn't terrible. They'll steal some wins. That was the type of wins that great teams steal. Never in doubt. How many times have we been in Essendon's position? Good but not good enough? That was a great win. Change my mind.

You clamp down on Petracca and all that does is let Oliver run rampant. We are a hard team to stop. I know some posters will flame us for the scrappiness of that effort but "Bang Bang Bang" footy isn't needed at this time of year. Bank the points, reset, recalibrate and move onto next week. Very happy to see Weideman do well. He keeps his spot ahead of TMac for sure, IMO.

Thank god that’s over. Terrible quality game. Happy to bank four points and move on. Well done to Weid on his return. Took his opportunity and was the best forward on the ground.

Hardly got out of second gear, still won by nearly 30, and the scoreboard flattered our opponents. Super happy for Weid. Showed why many have backed him, even if those of us who have had started to doubt. Excellent game.

I'd like to remind everyone who's been potting Joel Smith over the last 2-3 years that (a) he has improved and (b) the coaches have worked with him, recognised his improvement and selected him accordingly. No reason the same rules don't apply to Weid. Give the bloke a chance and maybe pump up his tyres rather than forecast him failing and then delighting in it when it happens.

SOOOOO happy for Weids!!!!!! You could FEEL his confidence growing as the game went on. ❤️💙

Considering the experience that is out, i will take a 5 goal win. No injuries and 4 points at Round 3 onward…

Gus is Mr Fixit, very happy for Weid. Oliver is sublime. Keep banking points.

That was a ludicrous goal Ed!

Everyone complaining that Weideman is in over Mitch Brown need to remember one thing, Weideman can ruck and ruck quite well. Playing him means Gawn or Jackson can play forward when not taking the ruck work in the middle, which means we don't lose the height advantage of Ben Brown bringing the ball to ground. I understand Mitch Brown was very good last week for Casey, but he's got no future at the club, he is a good ordinary VFL player and is emergency backup only. We just signed Weideman for another 2 years. If we don't play him now, what is even the point of having him on the list?

Thanks @Webber, that was excellent. To summarise for those who are time-poor; 4 to 6.

Did you ever go to Windy Hill in the 70’s or 80’s?? hatred goes a long way further back than 2000, I assure you

Another very professional win. We were challenged throughout most of the game but we've developed an outstanding ability to grind out wins when we're not at our absolute best. Oliver played one of his usual brilliant games. Brayshaw just keeps getting better every week. He and Langdon have become a killer wing duo. Weideman's earned himself another game. Good on him.

Good to see no one overreacting on here

It's not right that Mitch Brown doesn't come in. He kicked 7 goals in the VFL and Weideman was average. It should be Brown for Brown.

Face palms for anyone that suggests dropping Joel Smith

Don’t rate Weideman at all and am perplexed how he jumped ahead of Mitch Brown in the queue, but hopefully tonight’s the night. Just needs to clunk an early one.

He lovds whatever is hot that minute. He's like a goldfish

Bowey still yet to lose a game the streak continues

Best wishes to Sam - he has his chance, and I hope he is able to find his mojo again. I think if he concentrates on constantly leading to space - rather than trying for the big pack marks - he should do well, as we now have the players ahead of him capable of hitting him lace out. Once he gets his confidence, the pack marks will likely follow.

I never get that frustrated about injury timelines. I prefer to focus my frustration onto the real issues of the game - umpiring and Dwayne Russell.

od, regardless of which membership you have, how many games you go to, you will always be a Demon at heart. Sometimes that is enough.

Just got home from the ground. The last time I watched a live game vs Essendon at the G we got beaten by 100+ points. So the win was nice. I think we looked flat at times and really sapped our own momentum with poor kicking for goal, but our commitment to team defence and the hard work it takes to execute it is elite. We really work hard for each other. It’s good to support a team that has a definitive game plan and executes it regardless of the cattle. The other thing that’s fascinating is going to games where we win and opposition supporters aren’t annoyed by our victory. It was oddly calm walking out of the stadium - as if it all went to script.

Love demonland after a win. Some are very hard to please. Let’s not forget where we were for a very very long time. We are winning ugly but I will take that over losing any day.

Goodwin just said Lever and Brown to play next week.

I think this is spot on and can't be understated. I think back to the 3peat hawks. They were always missing key players early and weren't playing their best but just found wins. The old Melbourne coughs this one up. This Melbourne believe. No they understand.

We didn’t play great but won and an added bonus Essendon are 0-3 and highly likely not to play finals. Not a bad night.

Those posters who called an end to Weid’s career in the Casey thread last week, the floor is yours.

Umps aren’t influencing this game. Our poor execution is though.

I think this day in 1990 was one of the greatest wins in my time.

I hate Essendon above all other teams because of their arrogance, their brutality in the 2000 GF, going to Windy Hill, their arrogance and their absolute refusal to accept responsibility or come clean about what they gave the players when they drug cheated. I also find them particularly arrogant. Back in 2012-15 I used to make a deal with a god that I don’t believe in, that I could live with just one win for the year as long as that was against the Bombers

i actually like the way i think it's the tigers have been doing their injury reports for the last few years; they have four types of timing listed: short term medium term long term indeterminate no more putting 'weeks' on an injury return date

Going on your reactions, you've been vomiting quite a lot! A visit to a doctor might help.

It’s astounding the Bulldogs can continue to get such a favorable ride from the umpires. 31 to 14 tonight, similar to most weeks. There needs to be an inquiry as it costs teams matches.

Clear drop, not paid Clear high, not paid one step over mark, 50m in 30 seconds, cost us goal, 12 point turn around [censored] you umpires

This is Weid's final chance I would think. There is a kid at Casey who is already pushing his name up.

55,000 Members and Climbing Winning is good…

I am backing Weid tonight to prove the doubters right..

I would be far more confident if M.Brown was in, this has danger written all over it.

Max just posted an insta story of himself at a cafe about 20 minutes ago. I think you've fallen victim for an April fools joke..!

Feeling uneasy about this game. We are on a 9 game winning streak, we are not in the best form (which is totally fine for round 3, it’s a long season), we are carrying injuries and Essendon are trash. This can only mean one thing… we could be complacent and lose. If we are at 80% output or more we win and win well. They’ll struggle to kick a big score. But they will also be fired up and desperate to win. If we aren’t on our game for long enough they could win, and while we are bound to drop a game soon, I really really really don’t want it to be to those drug cheating a-holes.

That’s true. However what’s happening here isn’t a single badly umpired game. This is a multi year , game affecting trend that NEEDS to be discussed. It seems clear now that somehow the dogs are playing the system. If we want to at least aspire to non partiality from our umpires we need to understand how this has happened. It’s SO obvious now that not talking about it is harming the game.

Surely Mitch Brown replaces Weideman in list of emergencies?? Surely great form needs to be rewarded??