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Frosty must be doing something right at the Hawks !!!!

I also received 2 emails per membership for my family. I just assumed that it was an error but now you've got me worried that they will automatically debit twice. I also don't recall going on the automatic renewal and the emails are saying that I will be automatically debited on the 26th of October. I will always renew my memberships but I've never put them on automatic renewal. It is up to me when I want to be disappointed.

All this scuttlebutt is why it's so important to win against Essendon and finish the season with two solid wins. Wilson always has stories on a number of clubs, she can wheel out to keep herself well within the AFL system. Melbourne has always provided stories. We don't really do losing well (not many do) and we are like St Kilda the most losingest club. That's a lot of baggage. It's sad because it means until we win another premiership we are never far from imploding. I, like a lot of Melbourne people think there is a lot of promise out on the field and I'm sure just like us all, didn't like the losses to Freo and the Swans and like many on this forum, voiced their opinion. Saw the need to change. Including some of our supporters who are well off and have the ability to make a contribution to the club on a number of levels. And just like the majority, they are going to calm down and trust that the men in charge, continue to develop this upward trend we are hopefully on. Most of all, we recognize that upheavals and acrimonious splits aren't good for anyone and generally end in rebuilds and further years in the "wilderness". This is such an important game for quite a few people, I hope they realize it and make sure we win.

He’s worth about what we paid for Langdon. Certainly not a first round pick.

With the scrapping of the major second tier competitions on the east coast of the country due to COVID-19 for 2020, there will be a single replacement in 2021 meaning that the VFL and the old VFA will be no more. The NEAFL has been disbanded and the clubs that made up the previous competitions have been asked to lodge “expressions of interest” with the AFL by tomorrow. At this stage we know that Melbourne will persevere with its Casey Demons alignment while Carlton have scrapped the Northern Blues (although this could see the return of the Preston Bullants. NEAFL club, the Canberra Demons has stated that it won’t take part in the new competition. There may well be more than 20 teams in the new league next year with plenty of changes in the way the competition is conducted.

Because he didn't play against Port Adelaide...

The problem I have with your position, Doc, is that you want to blame all the bad stuff on Goodwin, but give him absolutely no credit for when things have gone right. You're so blinded by your bias that you just want to pot Goodwin and, in the same breath, totally ignore anything positive he has done. Look at your stance on Oliver. How many players have come to an AFL club 'destined for greatness' and not made it? Plenty. You still have to be developed and nurtured and taught how to play like an AFL footballer. Oliver readily admits that he wasn't ready for that, but it took the coaches to talk him through it and model it for him to get it. I know this thread is about Tom McDonald - and I think his decline is as much to do with the injuries he suffered last year as it is on 'development' - but if you want to knock him for the bad stuff (and I won't stop you or argue some of those aspects), you need to acknowledge and give him due credit for the positive stuff as well. It works both ways.

1. Players: a) Forward: Tom Mc was one of the best CHF's in the comp, that made it easy for Hogan to flat track 50 goals at FF, or even better when Weid came in and delivered at the end of the year. Petracca, ANB, Spargo, Hannan, Melksham had a very nice balance in the forward line around 2 big talls. Melksham isn't the same player, Petracca is needed in the midfield and hasn't found the forward/mid balance yet, ANB hasn't found that form. Spargo is just getting back to it. The additions since then in Pickett, Fritsch and Jackson are really just finding their way. Weid has taken a while to get back to the same form and belief. b) Mids: Tyson, Jones, Vanders gave us a wing rotation that worked against most sides. Gus was in career best form. Harmes was great. Gawn, Viney, Oliver doing their thing. I'll talk about the midfield more later. The additions since then: Langdon and Petracca. Handy, but not enough to cover other weaknesses. c)Backs: Frost and Oscar weren't asked to do much. Jetta and Hibberd were in All Aus form. Lewis was in the best role to get the most out of him. Fritsch was handy as an intercepting flanker. Salem was Salem. The additions since then: At the moment it's Tomlinson for Frost, May for Oscar, Lever for Fritsch. May's a huge upgrade but the others not so much. Hibberd isn't the same. Jetta and Lewis are been replaced by Lockhart/Rivers/Smith etc. We just don't have a settled backline yet. 2. Game plan: The 2018 game plan was incredibly simple. Go hard to win the ball in the middle, often with coverage with 2 extra off the back flank for bounces. Push up really hard to lock the ball in forward. Pray other teams don't get out the back. Use the corridor to counter because with so much open space back we always had room to counter. It wasn't the worst plan. Port are still doing a version of it now. But I think our coaches rightfully looked at teams like Richmond defending with a spare dropping back to get easy intercepts and stop quick over the top goals as well as full ground pressure and said we need to set up more like that. And other teams like West Coast had had success (especially against us) sitting deeper, kicking the ball around and adding a lot more midfield run and speed to power that game plan and counter teams like Richmond. The Eagles got rid of Mitchell and Priddis pre 2018, meanwhile our midfield was still young and lazy defensively and our wings were slow. The change of defensive gameplan also meant a change in ball movement because you can't just aggressively flood numbers forward if you're trying to defend the full ground and keep a drop back defender. So the bomb it in approach of 2018 - which was never pretty - got very ugly in 2019/2020 when our forwards had to think more than just converging on the top of the goalsquare and seeing what happened from there. In summary we've had to take a step back with the game plan to hopefully take a few steps forward. And whilst the overall list is probably in a similar situation we've lost experience. Other players who excelled in the simplicity of the 2018 plan have struggled. We aren't too far off 2018's results and we're yet to see exactly the changes to the game plan in person, although our best footy this year has looked promising. At some stage next year we'll know if the game plan looks up to the level, we'll know if the recruiters have found some of the missing depth and we'll know if our players can start to show some onfield leadership.

I think there is something about Charlie but don't think it will be the Caleb type role. I could see him playing forward for a 200+ game career with us and have some big moments in finals. He has the grit required to make it and he has improved on every part of his game from what i can see. His tackling, his pressure, his kicking distance, he has kicked 8.0 for the year, he is accurate. He never seems to get too carried away when he does good things, and has that look on his face like he expects it of himself. We need to build a list of players that have skill, footy smarts, heart/courage, and that will to just win. I see him as an integral part of us becoming a great team. Anyone thinking he is a trade or delist currently will change their tune and want to ruffle his hair in the end! He is developing nicely. Respect little fella!

I'll throw in #6 Dollar for Dollar ?

I received two emails as well. I understand that clubs are finding life difficult, but I'm pretty unimpressed that the best they can offer members is a price freeze when we received zero value for money in 2020. The price rises in the past 3 - 4 years have been significant, and certainly haven't been matched by the performances on the field.

Agree that his tackling is good, but he's hardly a chase-down player. Like vandenBerg, a great tackler if somebody runs right at him. Still reckon he's shown enough to hang around as a depth player.

Some nice value there fella's I've already worked out a few doubles and a treble as well as using 1 or 2 picks as place options (in small multi's) The big multi only has to cost the price of a coffee but there is always value within all the picks. And there's still a couple/few best bets to come in. This is the bounce-back weekend, I know it ?

Ridiculous. If we lose to a couple of bottom sides and still make it, it indicates we've beaten some decent teams we didn't 'need' to beat to make finals. If we'd beaten Freo and Sydney and dropped games to Saints and Pies, people would say we didn't deserve to make it because we'd only beaten average sides. If you make it, you deserve it*. Teams around the fringes always drop games they 'should' win and win games they're expected to lose - that's footy, and sport in general. *Except maybe Carlton, when they snuck in due to the Bombers being stripped of premiership points.

Gunston is only 28, I would have thought he was older

I don't understand the dropping Weid theory either. He's played some very poor games lately granted but surely he plays this week.

Yep, he was a million dollar player in 2018. Postseason surgery and many injuries later, and he's a shadow. I have no time for those who rubbish him these days. He is a very good player, struck down by ailments not of his making. I wish him all the best, I hope he can regain some confidence and rhythm. If he doesn't, it won't be for the lack of commitment and dedication.

And we now have 5 choices for the 6 pick exotic (Sir Rupert Clarke Stakes) #1 Behemoth (Default Pick) #4 Cascadian (DZ) #11 Age of Chivalry (Gorg) #6 Dollar for Dollar (JV) #13 Pretty Brazen (Wadda) If there aren't any more takers by 6pm tomorrow I'll post up a choice. But I like all the choices so far anyway ... My first 3 choices have been taken up but in such a wide open betting race, there's a few others to choose from So we should have it all finalised by tomorrow evening. Putting a bet on is optional of course and up to the individual in any way they prefer. I'm tossing up between a Tri & F4 but I might split my outlay and have 2 smaller bets on either exotic. And a small percentage can still deliver a very decent dividend. Thanks in advance for participating.

Why? Over the last 20 years, I believe the AFL has done a good job on all things commercial, including matters like expansion. The second tier competition would fit into this category. On the other hand, over the same period I think the AFL has poorly managed two things. The first is how it has managed the game itself, such as the rules, the "look of the game" and the MRP/MRO/Tribunal process. The second is the AFL's PR and communications strategy. In short, I suspect the changes to the second tier are likely to have been well thought through but have been poorly communicated so we don't appreciate the reasoning behind the proposal.

I don't care what the media say, we've worked on dropping our backline deeper to prevent easy goals. Apart from getting smashed by Port we've stopped teams scoring for most of the year. The inside 50 kicking in the first few rounds after the restart was really bad but that's improved since then. There's still a huge room for improvement but that's for the coaches. In terms of Mahoney's job as an administrator his role was more to bring in Richo to help get things on track and I think that's happened. Champion Data....please. Langdon was a good pick up and we've had a very nice draft class. Assuming we aren't afraid to make some more aggressive moves we should be far more balanced and capable of pushing and staying up the ladder. Pickett and Spargo was a very minor breach early in the process by young players, almost every club has had one. The Cairns stuff isn't a story, if anything we should've complained more about an absolute stitch up of a fixture. The other clubs based up there have been gifted a home ground advantage and it seems priority access to train on the oval that we weren't. Injuries were a massive factor and I would've liked to have bounced back better than we have but remember the 2007 injuries and the decade without finals? At least we're back in the hunt. Who is this highly rated person to come in? There's not many good football administrators out there and how many are keen to jump on board with Goodwin or with a huge 700k+ hole in their budget. The mid season assistant changes Mahoney made were proactive, something had to change. I understand that concern but bad clubs make more mistakes with too many changes than too little. I'd rather just see one last year of Mahoney and Goodwin than turfing one or the other.

in the past i have explicitly requested no automatic renewals, yet that is what happened to me last year too i don't mind reminders but not auto billing

So let's get this correct, Champion Data beses list ratings on the previous season. So the drop down in your view is because the list hasn't improved, because we've gone from rated 1st(based on 2018 stats) to 9th (based on 2019 stats) However the improved ladder position in 2020 is nothing to do with Goodwin but all to do with less injury

Billy the work experience kid would get nominated amongst that rabble!

Hibberd has every right to feel very proud of how he's performed this year. After one poor early game he has showed outstanding endeavour and has only really been beaten by Wallis who was in superb touch that day. All of this against the backdrop of a family tragedy.

Caulfield - Race 3, n 8 Portland sky $6 W Age of Chivalry for the 6 exotic pick

Love Demonland .. Goodwin vs Swans - too passive, vs GWS - too active.

Saturday Best Bet Morphetville Race 9 #9 - Viduka WIN $3.60 This horse gave me a fright last week nearly holding off the now 1000 Guineas fav so pretty keen on this one in the last again at Morphetville.

To me Tom looked the same last year physically, but had a crap year when he was regularly taking the best defender in a team that could barely move the ball. This year is different. Absolutely nothing to this other than gut feel and personal experience, but to me Tom has the look of a guy that's been thrown out of kilter a little by having a kid. The 'heavy' look of his middle/lower body, the general sluggishness, the lack of vibrancy....you could complain about many aspects of Tom's game over the years but you could never question his mental or physical preparation. His one wood. Interrupt that a little ...whether due to lack of sleep, shifting priorities or a dose of age/reality in a year of tremendous challenge for him and his new family...I wouldn't be surprised if it is a factor. Ditto Melksham to some degree. For all the blokes that claim it transforms their mindset (see Harley), I know personally and from friends that the new dad flat spot is a thing - not in a total inescapable postnatal depression kind of way - but in a 'life has changed and my routine is broken' kind of way. If so (and who knows really), I wouldn't be surprised if Tom return to some form in a year or two. I would hope that's with us, but let's be honest, for what we are paying and what he delivered he has to carry the can for a decent share of our forward-half challenges since 2018.

I reckon if the players at training were hit by an asteroid, you'd be screaming 'excuses, excuses'. Are you aware that excuses and reasons are not synonyms.

We are better with Bayley in the side and if he can get his kicking sorted out he will be around for a long time. He takes a lot of hits but always picks himself up and takes some very strong marks at critical times in a game as well as covering a lot of territory. I like what he brings to our side.

Snip. Notwithstanding the heartfelt nature of that, I am experiencing some congitive dissonance. I've always thought that writing like that is beyond all Collingwood supporters? Has a Demonland member infiltrated the Pies board to try to undermine any thoughts of keeping him to help underpin any effort to get him?

Giants: Isaac Cumming 21yo. Running small defender 184cm. 84 kgs. 4 years at Giants but stuck behind Williams and Heath Shaw. With the sun setting on Jetta and Lockhart seemingly not in favour, Dees could grab Cumming. He’d fit really well into our defence. Could even get a shot as a running mid. Good pace. How to get it done ? - Offer a 3 year deal. Giants won’t offer that. Trade options. Swap for Preuss or Swap for Joel Smith. Or trade 3rd round (hopefully acquired for ANB back to Crows).

This is the difference. If we have that we're fighting for top 4 this year, not top 8.

How'd coaching geniuses Pagan and Malthouse go with their rebuilds from the bottom up. It aint easy, time catches up with them all

I don’t think they release the coaches votes to the public for the last two rounds until after the winner is announced.

God i hope they're not considering Smith. Nearly 32, Hawks offered him 2 years. We be certifiable mad to match that.

Do you believe he'll get another? That's of more relevance They've made some serious trading blunders in the last 3 years. Can't see Frost being a win for them

Finlayson has signed with GWS so the article is already outdated

I really liked seeing him down there, it looked like a football (soccer) manager type thing where he was able to give directions to the players immediately when they came off/on. I’d like to see him stick with it this week and have Richo upstairs watching for patterns and structures.

This is fair. Putting close games to one side, we went 0-5 against the top 5. Our competitors for finals spots got over the line at least once in their attempts to beat the top 5 (Collingwood beat Geelong and drew with Richmond, St Kilda beat Richmond and Port, the Dogs beat West Coast, GWS beat Geelong and Richmond). Our competitors also have losses to "weaker" sides (Collingwood lost to Fremantle and Essendon, St Kilda lost to Fremantle and North, the Dogs lost to Carlton, GWS lost to Adelaide, North and Sydney). So we're not alone in dropping those two Sydney/Fremantle games. IMO, as frustrating as the Sydney/Fremantle losses were (Sydney in particular, given they're a bottom 4 side), it's the fact we didn't win even one of our five games against the top five that has us in this mess as much as anything else.

I think people are thinking we were a better team in 2018 than we really were. We were 14-8. If we beat bombers we’ll be 9-8 - which is equivalent to a 12-10 record in a normal season so we are two wins off. Take into account some close losses this year we are not that different. Admittedly we scored a lot more freely in 2018 as we had good key fwds in form

No, no he isn’t.

A 26 year old possible All-Australian a direct swap for a struggling, injured and currently dropped soon to be 28 year old....? Don't think so mate.

Langdon left due to Blakely

Not a sling tackle. No concussion. Stayed on the ground. Arms not pinned. Didn't drive his head into the ground, but rather momentum took them both forward. Actually an everyday tackle. Correct decision.

There ha to be something wrong with his body,can't accelerate, can't turn and can't jump. His biggest asset was his running capacity, getting up and back, thats why he worked well with Hogan, both had really good running capacity so one worked up and created space behind.

In the last 20 years how many contested club elections have there been across the league apart from Szondy vs Gutnick? The ratio of threatened contested elections to actual ones is about 1:300. First thing the incumbents do is point out a vote will cost $100k and that's usually the end of it. Unless you have the popular support to push the incumbent off without a fight a'la Stynes and Gardner.

The word is that Collingwood have a very tight salary cap and need to re sign Moore and De Goey.... Some players will be squeezed out. Phillips (even though contracted) could be getable and would be a great compliment to Langdon. Another hard running wingman.

Why move him from the forward line, hes one of our most creative players there, rarely makes a bad decision. He will create so many goals.

Seek help immediately RUOK?