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Thought Stretch was good. Liked Declan Keilty’s game, also. Both looked like they could handle a call up if needed. The 2 smalls were interesting - Chandler and Bedford. Perhaps a little slow to start, but both showed quite a bit as the game progressed. Kade’s got a competitive, hard-working approach to the game and Toby has pace and intensity. Works in progress, but I like their skills sets. Kade likes to fly at times, and will snag a ripper at some point if he’s allowed the license to fly from time to time. It was good to see Oskar Baker getting through the game after the soft tissue issues he’s been having. He was probably even showing a fraction more toe today - his hair stylist has given him a ‘do with less air resistance (and a slightly different colour?). Took me a while to realise who it was in the #56! KK worked into the game, and agree with Drunken that he looks not far off. Can’t wait to see him in the seniors. Wonder if it’s a question of match fitness and conditioning as to when he plays for MFC. (Although the lack of such didn’t seem to stop several getting games yesterday!?) Preuss was a mixed bag. Was quite good in the ruck, didn’t offer much around the ground and was not bad using his strength in clearances after ball ups - although I’m not sure how well he’d get away with that in the AFL. Amid calls to get him in to give assistance to Max, I’m not quite sure how well the twin towers strategy would work. James Jordon was effective in the backline, and took the kick-ins. A beautiful user of the ball.

I’m looking ahead to 2020, already written off 2019.

Limping, carrying injury or not. The real Jack Viney would not have put up with Max being pushed around without giving some back. He was very placid on Saturday & had absolutely no impact on the game.

I’m sure people will tell me to shut up because I keep banging on about the same thing every time our lack of leg speed is bought up but as long as people keep bringing it up I will put my 2 cents in. I believe speed in AFL is completely overrated, the fastest way you can play football is by quick ball movement. Clean disposal by foot & quick chains of handballs. Our lack of speed is bought up every single time we have a bad loss or loss for that matter, we have been beaten in those games because we have not been aloud to play our style of football. Look at the total possession count from the weekend, we couldn’t get the footy off Port. I’d have a guess if you look at most of our “bad” losses over the past 2 years it would be we have been well beaten in the possession count, we just couldn’t get the ball of Port & control the game in any way. Another point on the speed factor, take frost or hunt for example. They take off a million miles an hour, burst away, kick long & turn it over, that footy is sling shot back inside our defence 50 by FOOT, not legs, I repeat GOOD foot skills not speed before Frost or Hunt could even turn around to defend. Agree we are not the fastest side in the comp, but we are playing football not racing a 100m sprint. Good ball use particularly by foot is what makes sides fast.

I hope he has two

I highly, highly doubt Goody and the FD see Omac as 'depth'. More likely they see him as a key back for us for the next 8 years, barring major injury. May and Omac will be our kpd's, Lever 3rd tall, Frost depth.

That’s a very good point. Jack might have been on the bench at the time but no else jumped in for Max. That’s when I knew we were in trouble. I mean where was the agro, where was the ‘c u next Tuesday’ in us. Very unlike Melbourne of 2018

My reliable information on tmac is that he is meticulous in foot management. He has been known to take a bucket with him socially so he can ice his foot if needs be. Last year this occurred. Does nothing without medocos sign off.

How many of us were dirty after the first 10-15 minutes? Plenty of reasons why things turned around and we didn't react. We're still a young side, and still learning, but I expected better. So many players slipping over when we were all out attack in q1 = heads drop. Port coaches exploited that by thumping Gawn. Midfield group either respond or go into shell. Shell. Nobody stuck up for Gawn. They could've belted anyone they wanted and got away with it. A question. Would any team get away with dropping Grundy off the ball, twice??? Demons, you are now the hunted, you need to harden the [censored] up!

That was his 19th game. And he failed to put on any height in the off-season.

Why didn’t he take the bandage off and rub himself against Jonas, Lycett and Ryder???? cue BBO

Its strange, as blind freddy could see that he was limping and not fit. There has always been a footy club culture that allows a player to play injured. However, why risk a player that is so important to the club in the first match of a very long season ? There are 3 possible scenarios: -Viney and/or the coaches are prepared to override medical advice or -The medical advice is equivocal, leaving the player and coach to make the call or -The medical advice is that Viney has a chronic injury that will not repair without long term rest of a year or more a la Clark and Trengove. An even worse scenario is a diagnosis that says that the injury will never fully repair, and that Viney will need to retire, or try and play on for as long as possible with the pain. However, on the evidence of Saturday, it would appear that Viney is going to have an interrupted season of football. And as we also saw on Saturday, he will have limited effectiveness due to lack of game time, poor fitness and inability to compete.

They are not going to drop those 3 players all at the same time, if you think that the back six were solely responsible for saturday's loss you are sadly mistaken.

Casey came away with a well fought win today. It was hot and windy and by the start of the 4th quarter everyone was cooked but we held on against the wind to finish well. Our inside 50's and shots on goal were pretty terrible and we got hurt on the rebound a lot which will need work throughout the year. We were in control most of the day and should've won by a lot more. Final Score Casey 10 - 17 - 77 to Box Hill 10 - 6 - 66 Melbourne Listed Players (Be warned I wasn't in my normal viewing place so didn't have the best view of the ground and I was focusing on Dec most of the game): Stretch: Good attack on the ball and did well on the inside Kolodjashnij: Took a little while to get into the game, but reads the ball well off half back and has great skills. Could see him coming into the Seniors pretty soon. Lockhart: An average game by Jay's standards but did his usual good work Maynard: Didn't notice him a lot but he was inside all day and its hard to tell with loads of players around the ball who is doing well or not Bradtke: The surprise for mine. Was very quiet the first half but took some good grabs and kicked a goal in the second Bedford: Again didn't really notice him but did a couple of nice things out of the back pocket Preuss: Was a monster in the ruck around stoppages, but did nothing of note around the ground. Talking to him after the game he was running around sore J. Wagner: Solid game but made mistakes with the ball, his attack and aggression was great though Petty: Great game as the main key defensive peg with some good overhead grabs and spoils until he rolled his ankle in the last quarter Baker: I think he is going to be a good winger, runs hard and fast and hits the ball well. Some sloppy disposals though. Keilty: Best forward on the ground by a mile. Jumped well at the ball, took a few strong marks and if not he always bought it too ground. Did some good work at ground level too. Didn't do much Ruck work as Pruess probably did 80-90%. Was stuffed in the last quarter as he didn't come off the ground for the whole 2nd and 3rd quarters but I really liked his game. I am being biased but he played well. Did I miss anyone? Also Jade Rawlings is a great coach. I listened to the 3/4 time huddle and his instructions to the boys were well given and you could see the affect it had in the last quarter to enable us to hang on for the win.

I am not losing the faith just yet. Another 2 games will tell a story, however in the injury front I cannot help feeling the club is feeding us BS!! This club spruiks it’s medical and fitness staff have done a wonderful job. Well well, let’s see huh! There is a stink around the fitness of many of our players, not to mention Smith and Vanders. The team looks damn slow and if they don’t make the 8 there will be many supporters cracking it.

Viney has looked pretty good in the rehab group (yes I know) for most of summer. They seemed to be timing his run pretty well. Apparently he got a corky at the end of the Casey game, and then there was talk of a head knock in a Friday training session. Both of those could account for his performance as much as any long term foot concerns. I commented after training last week that he was held out of drills and something didn't seem exactly right otherwise he would've done the whole session. Absolutely agree that he needs to be 100% right to play again. No corkies. No concussions. No anything. Still think there's some chance that could happen by Saturday and he just had a shocker but I want to hear Goodwin say he's 100% and it's almost to the point where I'd like to see him prove it by dominating at Casey first.

Vanderburg is Jack's father. Little known fact. It will get reveled in season 3.

Maybe it’s not smoke and mirrors. Maybe leading up to the practice matches Jack was in really good nick until he got that cork on his knee. Lets not jump the gun here and think that it’s the end of the world. Let’s wait and see how he goes this weekend.

From my post earlier today in the Changes vs Geelong thread: "Hate to say it but I think Viney needs to be rested: he played only about 2 1/2 quarters, when he tried to run it was barely trotting pace and when on field he didn't really impact the game. He not only looked underdone, he looked injured...We effectively played one short vs Port and it took its toll on the rest of the team". Other players had to player longer minutes to compensate for Viney being on the bench. Co-captain or not, Viney cannot be allowed to call the shots.

I'm going to share a story and it doesn't bother me whether or not posters believe me. I'll start firstly by asking if anyone else noticed Jack's clear limp during the last half on Saturday. There is absolutely no way that he was moving in that manner due to fitness. Watching him shuffle from contest to contest was almost unbearable and from second level MCC it was clear as day that Jack is either playing through pain or not being entirely honest about his pain. And neither is the club. Goodwin said we came away 'unscathed' in his presser but I don't think we're being told the truth about Jack and I'm fearful that he's in a similar position to Vanders in that this will always be an issue for him. Here's my story: Two years ago I was suffering from plantar fasciitis which started over the pre-season (Same as Jack's injury). As soon as it became a constant ache and pain that wasn't going away, I got in touch with a physio from a previous club I'd been at who had just finished up working as North's physio. He suggested a relatively new non-invasive procedure that involved a needle which he said some AFL players had trialled with success as there's barely any recovery time. The more traditional surgery (the one that Jack had), is where an incision is made to cut the fascia and relieve the pain. But the recovery time is greater. However, this particular physio said that Jack's foot was in a shocking state after the surgery. Basically that it would never be the same and that he (like Vader's), will have to manage it from now on. He knew the guy who did the surgery. I realise this is probably suspected by many already but at the time I didn't want to believe it and thought I'd wait it out and see how he'd recover. But after seeing him in the flesh on Saturday, he is clearly favouring one side and had a notable limp and it can't just be a lack of fitness. I'm interested to know if anyone has heard similar.

This is a disgraceful post. Watts was on our list 3-4 years too long and the only reason he lasted so long was because we had so many new coaches that wanted to see him before delisting him from the list. So watts plays 1 good game of footy and that excuses his previous 150? Watts was trialled everywhere for us (back middle and forward) and the only thing that remained constant was his lack of intensity and strength in the contest. He played a solid game of footy and that's great. AA? please! He is playing for his spot on the list at Port each week.

Much debate in the past 24 hours is about whether we really lack outside speed. We can all look at this a bit simply and directly correlate this with uncontested possession numbers. But what are the other related variables and factors? We lack speed, but does that mean we wouldn't be assisted by a Sam Mitchell (circa 2012), Tim Kelly or Dustin Martin? These players aren't quick, but would they help our uncontested possession crisis? I think they would, so it can't be all about leg speed. Despite the recency of the 6/6/6, the league has been clear on its want to reduce congestion. Congestion was our friend, and favoured teams that were hard inside with quick hands in congestion. Some of our inside work last year reminded me of Sydney in 2005/6 as well as the Bulldogs in 2016. Collingwood's quick hands in 2018 was elite too. So as the game decongests (quicker ball-ups, decisions over ball-up, 6/6/6, kick-out play-on etc...), uncontested possession is about to be gold. This ugly duckling of 2005-2018 (bar Clarkson/Hawthorn) is about to become the go-to stat of most games hereon. Leg-speed counts quite a bit toward uncontested possession; but what else. Surely there are teams without elite leg-speed that are OK with uncontested possession. So what are the additional factors? What makes the sum of the parts more whole? Foot skills have got to be a factor. Clarkson's Hawthorn had foot skills of the highest percentile. They were able to start a chain from D50, and not rely on clearance-dominance and contested possession. As stated, they were the exception when contested was king. Uncontested possession requires a chain to start and continue obviously. So what else, other than leg-speed and foot skills will enable a chain to start and continue. The ability to break a tackle must be relevant. As soon as this happens, a +1 instantly occurs, and overlap can happen. Dustin Martin in 17/18 has been the best, and regularly gave Richmond a +1 and overlap chain. Despite being dragged down yesterday, I have faith in Petracca being elite at breaking a tackle. I think Brayshaw's ability to evade a tackler is grossly underrated as well. Oliver's quick hands are elite in evading a tackle, but this delegates responsibility to the player who has just received the pill in close, and doesn't necessarily augment a chain starting and spreading to the outside. The other 'non-speed' component is lateral speed or change-of-direction speed. Sam Mitchell was like treacle in a straight-line, but somehow could zig-and-zag quicker than most. Tim Kelly has a bit of Sam Mitchell and Brayshaw about him. Not electric, but slices through. Fox Footy (Lyon with Roos agreeing) also mentioned the A2 and A3 having faith in the A1 to get the ball. In other words, does the A1 (person about to get the pill) really need support in close. Yesterday's example was Petracca (identifying this near the city end) peeling off offensively and dangerously, and having faith that his teammate would win the possession. Other factors involve defensive spread (which primarily require leg-speed), workrate and restricting dangerous space. Alternatives? If you don't do well with uncontested possession, then you have an unhealthy reliance on winning clearances and gaining territory into F50. You also have an unhealthy reliance on your forwards keeping the pill in our forward 50. Mooney on Fox Footy yesterday overheard (3/4 time break) that Port didn't rate our forwards applying pressure, and coaching staff advised Port's backs to take stock coming out of their backline. Have we built a list that incorporates all these variables? I think it is important to start judging players on the whole, rather than the simple (good v bad, slow v fast). Spargo is quick, but not lightening. He rarely breaks a tackle. I don't think his change of direction speed is great either. Spargo needs bulk (to break a tackle) amongst other things to earn a spot. Lewis should retire now. Other than his foot skills, I can only see him being a liability in the decongested era. I have said repeatedly over the past few years, Watts could have done Lewis's onfield role with much more upside. Frost is the new whipping boy. But the simpletons are mad thinking he is our greatest problem. He is super-quick. His change of direction was hampered by wearing ice-skates yesterday. When he gets it, he attracts 2-3 opposition, which in theory should create the overlap opportunity. I would like to see him bulk up a bit and break a few more tackles. Hunt - must play. Speed, change-of-direction and overlap. With 6/6/6 dump kicks into F50 will now go to 1-on-1s or 2-on-2s more often. Brayshaw - tackle evasion/breaking is understated; foot skills are better than what he has been given credit for; his non-dominant side foot skills are on the way (not there yet) to what Mitchell's was like. Melbourne under Goodwin and Roos have built a list of competitors that are suited to congestion. On paper, it is a 'pretty good list', but when it is judged on these variables, it comes up short. pTGR

I have had some reservations since Viney stupidly played with his foot injury at the end of 2017 for what was essentially dead rubbers. He rushed back and suffered the consequences in 2018. With decision-making like that, you virtually deserve the consequences. Last week Viney played at Casey in the reserves, with knee taped and hobbling off. Was even shown in news footage after the senior game. That vision surely put him in doubt. On Saturday he was not running; he was ‘jobbling’, which is a cross between jogging and hobbling. These are obvious examples that someone on the outer can see. The fear is the extrapolation in relation to various cases that we don’t have the luxury of seeing. My question is does our medical staff have the brains and brawn. In other words, they might (questionable) make the right call, but does that carry weight to trump the overall hunch of the player and match committee? I doubt it. The tail is wagging the dog here, and I hope the dog is as smart as Lassie, and not Scooby Doo.

Not so much wrist slashing...just dismay. A bit like burgers...what you're promised...what you get

I thought my 8 year old son summed up the game best. He said to me, "Daddy, what is so bad about losing the game is that we have to listen to that awful song again. It is just the worst!"

If only we traded in another ruckman to cover for Max under such circumstances...

Kielty is listed 195 can play forward or back Can play minutes in the ruck and has a football brain which Frost doesn’t Was Casey’s best on Sunday Got a lot of praise from the Coach at the first and third quater huddle

Spargo will play at his best when our midfield is up and firing. Believe it or not his worth is providing the spread forward of centre and not wrestling in marketing contests with opponents double his size, which kept happening to the poor guy on the weekend.

Spot on cf. Have been saving that for 18 months.

Oh give me the off season any day, where we have our hopes, dreams and expectations, so much better than the cold reality of defeat and pessimism. One game in and I am sick already of the footy media, pundits, ex-players, second rate journos spruiking their half baked opinions and angles on the game and the fortunes of clubs. I am already in shut down mode on all the external stuff.

Jack Viney needs to be saved from himself, and the coach and the medical staff need to step up and do so. Seven years in and still not being at 100 games must absolutely sting for a person as dedicated and committed Jack. Zach Tuohy has played 138 games in that time, being taken in the same draft. Viney has played 99 and has been been at barely 50% for the last 20 of those. It is clear that Jack is never going to put his hand up and ask for help (although as a leader he should be doing the right thing for the team), so the club needs to act in his best interests . At some point football needs to be a secondary consideration to his quality of life after football.

67% game time is not enough for a midfielder, or any player for that matter. If a player is selected then they are deemed fit. You can’t conpromise a whole team to carry someone not able to pull their weight. Either Jack is fit and he’s not performing (unlikely) or Jack is unfit and should not be selected. I fear it’s going to be the case for the remainder of his career. He’s now spent close to half his career with injury, and there’s no end in sight as his body does not seem to be capable of holding up to play at the highest level.

A bit of scaremongering in that article! What it doesn't say is Sydney were 0-6 after round 6 in 2017 but made the 8 being 6th on the ladder at round 23 with a Home final! I'll take that any day of the week. A lot didn't work on Saturday and we were outgunned, outsmarted and outplayed. Coaches will make changes in tactics and players. Things will get a lot better for us. Keep the faith, folks.

So posters are going to make comments on something they know nothing about on the hearsay of another poster who is only guessing that there could be a problem.Typical.

Jack Viney holding himself back? Possible in a parallel universe.

67% game time is reasonable for a first game. If he played 50% I'd be concerned but i think he'll build to 80+% over the next 2 - 3 rounds. He might simply be holding himself back while he builds match fitness, in which case if he had won would have been smart play but because we lost he's seen as the problem. I reckon we give it a few games to see a bigger sample and then we will have a better idea where Jack and the team are tracking.

Thanks for the insight Steve. Will be a devastating blow if this has a similar career impact to Trenners’ injury. I hope in the name of all that’s holy that they manage him correctly. On the surface it looks a terrible decision to let him play on the weekend. Everyone involved in that decision is accountable. If he continues to put in similar performances then it’s delaying the inevitable.

Just to clarify, Rookies can be upgraded without the need for a LTI so its simply lodging the paperwork with AFL House. Simples.

We were bad on Saturday. But perspective has us lose a match by 23 points after getting smashed in UC possessions, tackling and inside 50s. And without two key defenders, and Lewis. We went up against two ruckman, with an underdone Oliver and Viney, and no impact from Brayshaw or Petracca. That was as bad a performance as I've seen since probably round 23 2016 vs Geelong. We were worse on Saturday than we were against Hawthorn last season. We were lethargic, slow, and lacking urgency. And yet we only lost by 23 points. Yeah we lost but hardly is it the writing on the wall. People need to get their [censored] together.

Hopefully it was precautionary LH, although the AFL site is reporting he will miss at least two more weeks with the hamstring injury. Regardless what people think of Lewis, he would have been handy on the weekend with his voice. One captain spent a substantial amount of time on the bench and a vice-captain was getting pounded behind the play.

Agree with RJay - no real enthusiasm for Tom (Sparrow) when first goal kicked. Refer Saints with Parker Freo with Schulz. Team was flat definitely not up and about and when momentum shifted no one other than Salem really stood up (peghaps Melky). Players did look almost disinterested and not enjoying their day. It was laboured and many couldn't/didn't chase. Disturbingly not one player went and helped Maxy (Tommy where were you, anyone?) and no fight in the last quarter was disappointing. Maybe some were cooked but only 8 points. Where was all that love fir Goody gone between mid week on his well deserved extension and Saturday in the heat? No Leadership glaringly obvious and no score at all in 4th quarter as a result. Something with the players was not quite right ( other than form) they were not happ to be there and it may have been general fitness from operations but can't put my finger in it. Crowd (from TV in Qld) was not really in game also and with nearly 40,000 which was good considering the trains rain and heat made made for a lack lustre start to our season of hope and glory and Goody's extension. Definitely our brand ( PJ and Perty) not on show and definitely no "esprit des Corps" evident. Looking for a much better and much more competitive performance at Cattery which I am returning to for first time in nearly 30 years! Go Dees

There are a million issues. When we lose. They all start in the centre - and then get amplified from there. You have Jack Viney completely underdone and not competing. Nathan Jones not much better. It means the other mids are running more minutes and running harder compared to their opposite numbers. It translates to greater exhaustion. It looks like we're slow. We suddenly can't kick straight. The opposition gets it on the outside. We chase more. We get more exhausted. We bomb it in more. Which makes our forward line look dysfunctional. So we can't trap it in as well. Because our structures are broken. Easy rebounds. Our defenders look horrible. Repeat and amplify. Do you think any supporters think they have a fast team? Seriously, have you ever thought or have you ever heard anyone say; 'Gee, we looked fast today, it's a shame about our foot-skills and effort though.'? The opposition makes you look slow when they dominate. Similar: have you ever heard someone compliment their team's superior foot-skills but lament their lack of pace? Every supporter when their team loses thinks their team looks slow and can't kick straight. Just the same as every fan thinks the umpires are against them. Pace isn't our problem. We made it to a prelim last year with the exact same level of pace.

spargo knows how to use the footy when he finds it, and actually has some pace - he just doesn't lay a tackle as he's a 19 year old, still developing strength i personally don't think you can play frost and hunt in the same side; yes, they both have line-breaking speed, but neither can hit a target by foot couldn't disagree with you more re lewis - the loss of him on the eve of round 1 was a massive blow as he controls our backline and is a must to have someone with a semblance of understanding of where to position themselves defensively, cos hibberd as our other backline leader can't / doesn't do it, and jetta leads by example rather than instruction, and to compare him to watts is laughable brayshaw's skills are terrible, but he's brilliant at finding the footy - he's nowhere near mitchell's class at this stage it's one game in, there's nothing to panic about, but there are obvious concerns at this stage we got SMASHED for contested ball against meth coke, in the jlt match-ups, and against the pear if you don't win the ball, you always look slow

Weid was not being served well by our midfield yesterday. Goodwins game plan is contested ball with plenty of random F50 entries. I don't think this game style suits Weid at all. It suited us with Hogan in the team as we had structure, Hogan had the great presence of a full forward. In my humble Weid needs to watch tapes of Lloyd from Essendon in his prime and Goodwin needs to change our game plan to suit. I think Weideman could be elite as a leading full forward if we got a game plan together that stopped bombing the ball in randomly and they worked out leading patterns that freed up space for him to lead into. I can tell you they don't practice it.

We should be flying.

Classic Demonland.

Spargo has good footy smarts and I thought he tried today and did some good things. As usual, when the whole team Plays poorly, it’s easy to signal out individuals but Spargo was okay for mine. Just needs to remain in the game at times.

Funny how five of the teams favoured to finish top four or thereabouts all lost in the first round: West Coast, Melbourne, Adelaide, Collingwood and Essendon. Guess they're all thinking their season's finished.

And I'm here from France to watch my one and only game for the year. What a disappointment!

Tyson. Was not noticed