POSTGAME: Rd 18 vs Hawthorn

[old55 23,535]

IMO the key problem is conversion.  We won all the important stats last night by miles except tackles and that's because we had it more, but we failed to put on scoreboard pressure again.

Contested, clearances, i50s, marks in i50, scoring shots - all in our favour.

The only game we were properly defeated was vs Collingwood.  Against Adelaide, GWS loss and Hawthorn we have gone 32.37 vs 36.23

11 goals total from 14 i50 marks vs 6 - something is very wrong there.

Is it because we try to score from difficult positions with our play to the pockets or failure to convert straightforward shots or both?

Credit to the young Hawks for bringing the heat and discredit to us for feeling it.

[wisedog 352]

I was disappointed Fritsch didn’t take the set shot late in the last. From memory we were a goal in front as he lined up. Even if he kicked a behind it would have probably been enough to get the win.

It was a bit of worrying result but I’m probably more relieved than disappointed. The footy world wouldn’t have let us live it down if we lost and the 2 points will be important at the end of the year.

[Smokey 4,389]

12 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

i'm sorry but you say 'still gelling' as if its improving? i haven't seen any improvement. Only consistent bad goal kicking.

Secondly, 2 points instead of 4 is the reason we could/most likely finish behind Brisbane, Port and Sydney on points. So it's extremely costly.

I love the way you put words in peoples mouth to suit your narrative. When did I say our forward structure is improving right now?

Your predictions are wrong far more often than they are right, so I'm actually quite encouraged by the fact you think this draw is going to be "extremely costly". 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,816]

Just realised we kicked just 2 goals in the last quarter and a half against a bottom side with 9 of their best 22 out. Not good.

The draw was pretty much as good as a win which was pleasing. The overall performance most certainly wasn’t.

I like Jason Bennett as a commentator but you could be forgiven for thinking he had a few shekels on the Hawks such was his excitement after each of their goals.

[Swooper1987 3,322]

32 minutes ago, bobby1554 said:

Three things about this interview:

Gus thinks we are playing the Dogs this week

He has no idea what the issue is with us not turning up against lower sides

And they have been practising goal kicking for the last 2 months

Oh dear!

From what Damian Barrett said this morning it's likely we are.  Perhaps Gus was aware of that last night.  Looking at the GC v Brisbane game scheduled for Round 20 being flipped to next week which would mean we get the doggies.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

9 minutes ago, wisedog said:

I was disappointed Fritsch didn’t take the set shot late in the last. From memory we were a goal in front as he lined up. Even if he kicked a behind it would have probably been enough to get the win.

It was a bit of worrying result but I’m probably more relieved than disappointed. The footy world wouldn’t have let us live it down if we lost and the 2 points will be important at the end of the year.

That was the dumbest play of the night. We were 5 points up. He declined the chance of getting two straight kicks ahead. If he scored a point it would have still been a goal ahead. It was well within his range but elected to kick to a pack of a dozen players. Very low percentage option. 

[Fat Tony 5,228]

13 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

IMO the key problem is conversion.  We won all the important stats last night by miles except tackles and that's because we had it more, but we failed to put on scoreboard pressure again.

Contested, clearances, i50s, marks in i50, scoring shots - all in our favour.

The only game we were properly defeated was vs Collingwood.  Against Adelaide, GWS loss and Hawthorn we have gone 32.37 vs 36.23

11 goals total from 14 i50 marks vs 6 - something is very wrong there.

Is it because we try to score from difficult positions with our play to the pockets or failure to convert straightforward shots or both?

Credit to the young Hawks for bringing the heat and discredit to us for feeling it.

We kick to the pockets too often, particularly when Gawn is in the forward line and its crowded. I know this exposes us to goals on the counter attack but it’s costing us.

Plus Spargo has no range, Petracca is hit or miss, Kossie is missing too many, Oliver can’t kick straight and TMac has gone a bit cold.

 

[BDA 22,742]

I can't think of another AFL example of a team beating the better sides but struggling against weaker teams. Closest analogy i can think of is in soccer where every so often a team has a much better record in away games compared to home games. It's purely psychological. Less expectation away from home allows the players to play without pressure whereas at home in front of the expectant home crowd they can't get it done. 

We haven't learned yet to deal with favoratism and expectation. I think its all part of our journey to becoming a mature team. We've taken big strides this year but there's still a ways to go.

[Dannyz 2,737]

Hunt set the tone for the whole game.

His first quarter was blistering and electric. Then there was nothing.

Jayden you are a barometer. You give us what Hibberd, Rivers and Salem dont. We need 4 quarter efforts from you.

[Meggs 595]

13 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

The Oliver reaction when Spargo marked in front of him was one of the most poorest thing I've seen from a Melbourne player in a long time. 

Yes, it reflected poorly on Oliver. He obviously rates himself but regularly misses set shots.  I’d prefer Charlie anytime.  Work place bullying.  Petracca reacted similarly poorly against Brisbane when TMac elected to snap instead of handballing to him.  Team first boys!

[Demonsone 2,037]

This is a loss and hope the coach & players see it this way!

Such a usual MFC result hey beat a top 4 side and lose to lower teams down the bottom!

The fragility & mental toughness is still in question with this team as missed opportunity as we have history in 17 & 20 missing finals and even a top 4 spot in 18, lets hope it dosent cost them a top 4  spot or hosting a home final!

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

9 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

I can't think of another AFL example of a team beating the better sides but struggling against weaker teams. Closest analogy i can think of is in soccer where every so often a team has a much better record in away games compared to home games. It's purely psychological. Less expectation away from home allows the players to play without pressure whereas at home in front of the expectant home crowd they can't get it done. 

We haven't learned yet to deal with favoratism and expectation. I think its all part of our journey to becoming a mature team. We've taken big strides this year but there's still a ways to go.

The expectation psycho factor is still there that's for sure.  Look at every game we've been  expected to win and win comfortably.  We've either struggled to do so and played poorly or bean beaten/drew.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Abbey Holmes is the best of the commentators except.... for this.

Petty has just pulled himself off... pause ...panic.... the ground.

 

[dazzledavey36 54,829]

5 minutes ago, Meggs said:

Yes, it reflected poorly on Oliver. He obviously rates himself but regularly misses set shots.  I’d prefer Charlie anytime.  Work place bullying.  Petracca reacted similarly poorly against Brisbane when TMac elected to snap instead of handballing to him.  Team first boys!

Petracca and Oliver.

It's all about who can be the hero on the day and get their names mentioned on AFL360 or On The Couch.

Against bottom side they go away from team first, and go into individual mode.

Edited July 18, 2021 by dazzledavey36

[Pennant St Dee 13,170]

4 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Genuine question here mods @Grapeviney @Demonland

How much leeway do 'certain' trolls get on here before they get given the flick?

If people stop responding to him/her , they would go away. All trolls crave attention which is missing in their normal life.

It’s in the hands of the other posters to just not take the bait

Edited July 18, 2021 by Pennant St Dee

[Lord Nev 13,512]

17 minutes ago, John Crow Batty said:

That was the dumbest play of the night. We were 5 points up. He declined the chance of getting two straight kicks ahead. If he scored a point it would have still been a goal ahead. It was well within his range but elected to kick to a pack of a dozen players. Very low percentage option. 

Was strangely ironic given how often he burns team mates usually...

[loges 6,767]

30 minutes ago, Swooper1987 said:

From what Damian Barrett said this morning it's likely we are.  Perhaps Gus was aware of that last night.  Looking at the GC v Brisbane game scheduled for Round 20 being flipped to next week which would mean we get the doggies.

Big chance I'd say

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,547]

1 hour ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

This thread is starting to feel like checking in on a bipolar relative each weekend. Anyway, I'm two coffees and a 25km bike ride to the good today so well equipped to deal with it. 

When I reflect on games like this I'm not really concerned that the opposition has worked us out. I'm sure every other coaching group in the competition know that playing the game with a high intensity and moving the ball low and fast to a forward target is the best way to play against a defence like ours. What they'll also know is that these two elements alone won't be enough to beat us unless we drop our intensity and the most comforting thing for me is that this last item is entirely within our own hands. 

This isn't the Melbourne that made a preliminary final in 2018. The 2021 version now has a dedicated winger, a gorilla full back and a bona fide lead up key forward. Personnel isn't our problem. The game plan isn't our problem. Being able to adapt during a game isn't our problem. Intensity and having the ability to bring it every game and every quarter is what makes us vulnerable coming into the pointy end of the season but it's this that still makes us masters of our destiny I think. 

I've just watched Goody's presser and Gus' interview with Ben Gibson and for me it's the ability of our coaching group to keep our players focussed on what they do well and to incrementally improve our intensity levels that will be important in the coming weeks leading into finals. 

It's a fairly young group we have and one day very soon they will have the weight of breaking a 57 year drought on their backs. Just because we've all been scarred by history I don't think projecting that frustration onto our team is going to help frankly. Of course I would love us to maul Hawthorn by 100 points like they have done to us over the years but we're not the '88 Hawks or the '00 Bombers and we'll just have to live with that fact I think. It's not for Kossie, Riv & Dogga to exorcise our demons unfortunately. 

Anyway, enjoy your Sunday everyone and bring on the GC. 

 

Thanks for the positive read. Think I needed it. Was kind of like a free therapy session (it's free, right?).

I'm not as rage filled as some after last night, probably more disappointed that we lowered our colours to a current lowly team, who as you put it, pantsed us for so many years. Looking forward to our time in this space, I know it'll come.

For now, we've won all our top 8 games, and lost some of the others. Pretty much a reverse of 2018 - a situation I'd much prefer. 

Looking forward to a thumping performance against the Suns, I know the boys will want to make amends.

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

 

I like Jason Bennett as a commentator but you could be forgiven for thinking he had a few shekels on the Hawks such was his excitement after each of their goals.

Yeah, I got that feeling too. I’m a big fan of his commentary but last night he was disappointing in that respect. 

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

1 hour ago, Smokey said:

Not an ideal result, but here's some perspective for the doomsayers: 

• We are not in our prime now, we are coming into it. We are not going to be at our best every week. Our forward structure is still gelling
• 2 points is as good as 4 in the context of the season at this stage
• The only stat we lost was tackles
• We are on top of the ladder 
• We have beaten 7 out of 8 teams in the 8 right now. Anyone who says we are pretenders has a very low football IQ
• Bottom dwelling teams that have proven to bring us down to their level do not feature in September 
• Just because we are on top of the ladder doesn't mean supporters are entitled to a season where nothing goes wrong. You'd think after the years of mediocrity that people around here would be more mentally resilient, watching some of you throw your toys out of the cot after a loss is embarrassing. 

100% Smokey  - I just went for a walk and was thinking about why I was initially so disappointed, I guess for most of us, it’s hard to get distinctions between our expectations not being met, and the subsequent anxiety of what a ‘poor performance’ judgement means for future matches and ultimately winning a GF. I guess for some/most die hards- there is years of frustration/anxitety - that now even when we are on top of the ladder - there still isn’t enough evidence weekly that we’re good enough.

[FireInTheBennelly 4,072]

Can someone explain the 50 against Gawn? I thought you were allowed to enter the protected zone if following an opposition player through?

[DeeZee 7,376]

They got 7 goals from turnovers and free kicks in the back half .

Theres the game right there.

Our disposal out of defense was shoddy and we didn’t remain calm when needed, which was uncharacteristic for our backs.

Also pretty undisciplined with a lot of head high tackles. Sure a lot were 50/50 but you can’t trust the umps to pay it your way.

We  had plenty of chances to ice the game in the last two minutes but instead of protecting the ball we gave it right back to them.

Edited July 18, 2021 by DeeZee

[titan_uranus 24,991]

1 hour ago, Dr.D said:

Oliver could still possibly get the 3 votes for this game.

But we need mids that are good kicks for goal. We don't have a luke shuey on our playing list. or anyone that comes close to his foot skills including in front of goal.

Lol.

Luke Shuey from Round 1 2018 - Round 6 2021 (which is as far as the data goes) - 43% goalkicking accuracy.

Petracca over the same period - 44%.

Viney over the same period - 46%.

Brayshaw over the same period - 43%.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,206]

1 hour ago, Pollyanna said:

IMO the key problem is conversion.  We won all the important stats last night by miles except tackles and that's because we had it more, but we failed to put on scoreboard pressure again.

Contested, clearances, i50s, marks in i50, scoring shots - all in our favour.

The only game we were properly defeated was vs Collingwood.  Against Adelaide, GWS loss and Hawthorn we have gone 32.37 vs 36.23

11 goals total from 14 i50 marks vs 6 - something is very wrong there.

Is it because we try to score from difficult positions with our play to the pockets or failure to convert straightforward shots or both?

Credit to the young Hawks for bringing the heat and discredit to us for feeling it.

Jackson, Brayshaw and Pickett weren't kicking from the pockets, they were effectively dead in front

[DeeZone 9,812]

40 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Lol.

Luke Shuey from Round 1 2018 - Round 6 2021 (which is as far as the data goes) - 43% goalkicking accuracy.

Petracca over the same period - 44%.

Viney over the same period - 46%.

Brayshaw over the same period - 43%.

Just goes to show that they are all pretty poor kicks when shooting for goal. I always thought that Shuey was a crack shot and I think Gus has deteriorated since 2018

Edited July 18, 2021 by DeeZone
Spelling