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POSTGAME: Rd 18 vs Hawthorn


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5 hours ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

LOL. Yes, it's free.

I was just reading the posts about all of the things we did wrong last night and wondered if there might be one fundamental thing causing most of them. Intensity when combined with adherence to our total team defensive structures can expose a lot more deficiencies in our opponents game which we've seen with their sideways movement out of the backline allowing us time to set up behind the ball and the poor execution or dump kicks when they find themselves under intense pressure. 

To date we've been fantastic in being able to bring our best in the big games but it looks to be harder to sustain across multiple weeks with the young playing group we have which is understandable. We just need to be a little better at it for longer against the lesser sides. 

 

 

PHEW! Haha

Agree with that. The ability to keep that pressure up (much like the Tigers of late and Cats etc) will come with experience. As we get better, the less they will accept the ordinary performances.

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Just finished watching again. The last two goals in the 3rd were from poor handballs from Hibberd. Missed targets twice and also over an the ball several times during the game, he was extremely poor, which something he hasn’t been all year

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3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

So true..

So the question then arises, when all the talk pre-season was about the group buy in and being selfless, how can the last 6 weeks have happened?

Have we used all our petrol tickets too early in the year?

Were we too reliant on the young guys (Riv, Jacko, Kossie) to provide spark?

Are they all a bit fatigued and trying to feather their own nests?

Has the Weideman/Brown drama caused some instability, likewise Viney being rushed back in?

In my opinion, Jordon being shifted out of the permanent mid role has reduced our efficiency. He is very balanced and smart around the ball, his tackles stick and he genuinely plays a team-first style. He also covers the ground well.

Same could be said for Sparrow, he didn't win the ball as much as Viney and was prone to the odd brain fade, but he was definitely working to the team first mantra. We had a more dynamic mix early in the year.

 

 

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22 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I must admit, I found it a hilarious moment last night when Oliver seemed befuddled when Charlie Spargo got into Oliver's path and stole a mark from him 35 - 40m out from goal towards the boundary.  That's right in Spargo's goal kicking range and he been reasonably reliable kicking for goal this season from set shots, so long as it's not 40m + out. Conversely I don't think Oliver has actually kicked a set shot from any further out than 5m this season.  Unless he's kicking/snapping on the run, Oliver's goal kicking has been atrocious, must have kicked about 10 behinds from set shots, without kicking a major, so to see his body language when Spargo cut him off was such poor form on his behalf.  It actually reeked a bit of playing like a millionaires well before we had the game under control.

Oliver - don't want to be treated with contempt inside 50? Fix your set shot goal kicking.

That all said Oliver is pretty good at spotting up others to have shots on goal with his vision an good foot skills on occasions too, so I'm not going to be too harsh on him.

Spargo didn’t make the distance on the ensuing kick. The contempt is mutual. At least Oliver would have got it over the line.

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51 minutes ago, BW511 said:

So the question then arises, when all the talk pre-season was about the group buy in and being selfless, how can the last 6 weeks have happened?

Have we used all our petrol tickets too early in the year?

Were we too reliant on the young guys (Riv, Jacko, Kossie) to provide spark?

Are they all a bit fatigued and trying to feather their own nests?

Has the Weideman/Brown drama caused some instability, likewise Viney being rushed back in?

In my opinion, Jordon being shifted out of the permanent mid role has reduced our efficiency. He is very balanced and smart around the ball, his tackles stick and he genuinely plays a team-first style. He also covers the ground well.

Same could be said for Sparrow, he didn't win the ball as much as Viney and was prone to the odd brain fade, but he was definitely working to the team first mantra. We had a more dynamic mix early in the year.

 

 

I watched Gawny in the third qtr try to lift the team through individual efforts but it just didn't work.

It struck me that when we're really put under pressure we fall back to the old individual selfish habits (through good intentions).

We try to bust through too many tackles, don't take first options, burn team mates going forward etc etc.

Geez we have the talent and it would be an absolute travesty if we don't take at least one flag with this team within the next three years. But......

This is all about what's between the ears of both the players and the coaching staff.

Culture, Professionalism, Preparation, Discipline, Mental Toughness, Team First

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21 minutes ago, Brownie said:

I watched Gawny in the third qtr try to lift the team through individual efforts but it just didn't work.

It struck me that when we're really put under pressure we fall back to the old individual selfish habits (through good intentions).

We try to bust through too many tackles, don't take first options, burn team mates going forward etc etc.

Geez we have the talent and it would be an absolute travesty if we don't take at least one flag with this team within the next three years. But......

This is all about what's between the ears of both the players and the coaching staff.

Culture, Professionalism, Preparation, Discipline, Mental Toughness, Team First

Spot on Brownie. When opposition put huge pressure on like Hawks did we seem to fold and go back to the past. This is where our midfield leaders need to stand up and lead the way. Unfortunately not happening and they just throw the ball onto boot and hope for best.

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It's interesting to watch, our midfield trio of Gawn, Trac and Oliver seem to be the ones that we rely on to drag us over the line, but if they actively try and win us the game themselves it is often to our detriment.

You can very rarely win modern football games without a positive contribution from at least 1/2 your side. We either have 18 players involved or 3-4 trying to go solo. Easiest way to get players going is to bring them into the game, share the footy around and stop getting ahead of yourselves.

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20 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Yeah, I got that feeling too. I’m a big fan of his commentary but last night he was disappointing in that respect. 

At 8 bucks why wouldn't you be excited

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1 hour ago, rpfc said:

Spargo didn’t make the distance on the ensuing kick. The contempt is mutual. At least Oliver would have got it over the line.

Still not a reason for Oliver's carry on.

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Our game plan is based on a team defence, so is reliant on the 18 players on the ground doing the right thing. As mentioned by other posters we have a number of players under 50 games and a few of our stars are also under 25yo. This still leads to fluctuations in performance, get up for the big games, but slight mental drop off against the weaker teams. Try win game off own boot vs selfless actions and team first. Look at when Tigers really became successful, Cotchin, Rance, Riewoldt were all 26yo plus and I think Dusty 25/26.

Our best is very good, whether we can sustain it is the question! As when we have, Dogs, Lions, Port, Tigers we killed them. In fact had we have kicked straight in all those games, you would have seen margins closer to 45-60 points in each.

Give Viney 2-3 more weeks and Bbb 3-4 more weeks, so they both are at full match fitness.

I would double down on goal kicking practice for every player on the list and also be tempted to give all the guys under 2 years one game off before finals - ok will defer to Burgess?!

But my big two are:

- double down on goal kicking practice

- make sure from a fitness perspective we are cherry ripe for finals

My gut feel is we might just be shy of what is required this year, but as there are no standout teams, if we can stay fit, and improve our goal kicking by 2 accurate shots a game(this would have resulted in only one loss for the season), we might just sneak a flag! 

Go Demons! seize the day!

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15 minutes ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

Yeah over the boundary line out on the full 

They both can't kick more than about 35 meters with any accuracy.  40 plus they rarely make the distance.  That's why Spargo dumped the kick to the goal square.  Didn't believe he would make the distance.

If these flaws are being shown up in a H&A game against a cellar dweller, imagine what will happen in a final.

Gus also needs to do something with his set shot kicking.  Bloody awful.

Edited by Rusty Nails
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2 hours ago, rpfc said:

Spargo didn’t make the distance on the ensuing kick. The contempt is mutual. At least Oliver would have got it over the line.

The boundary line...

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2 hours ago, BW511 said:

So the question then arises, when all the talk pre-season was about the group buy in and being selfless, how can the last 6 weeks have happened?

On field leadership and coaching.

Earlier in the year there was a huge amount of talk and positioning for certain events. Its virtually stopped. We're back to bees to the honeypot, not positioning properly, not doing selfless things etc etc

Gawn, Oliver, Viney and petracca are playing lke individuals again. Langdon hasn't been the same since coming back.

The fwd line is still dysfunctional with crumbers nowhere to be seen this week and as demonstrated by Vineys burst through the middle and not one fwd leading at him

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45 minutes ago, D4Life said:

Our game plan is based on a team defence, so is reliant on the 18 players on the ground doing the right thing. As mentioned by other posters we have a number of players under 50 games and a few of our stars are also under 25yo. This still leads to fluctuations in performance, get up for the big games, but slight mental drop off against the weaker teams. Try win game off own boot vs selfless actions and team first. Look at when Tigers really became successful, Cotchin, Rance, Riewoldt were all 26yo plus and I think Dusty 25/26.

Our best is very good, whether we can sustain it is the question! As when we have, Dogs, Lions, Port, Tigers we killed them. In fact had we have kicked straight in all those games, you would have seen margins closer to 45-60 points in each.

Give Viney 2-3 more weeks and Bbb 3-4 more weeks, so they both are at full match fitness.

I would double down on goal kicking practice for every player on the list and also be tempted to give all the guys under 2 years one game off before finals - ok will defer to Burgess?!

But my big two are:

- double down on goal kicking practice

- make sure from a fitness perspective we are cherry ripe for finals

My gut feel is we might just be shy of what is required this year, but as there are no standout teams, if we can stay fit, and improve our goal kicking by 2 accurate shots a game(this would have resulted in only one loss for the season), we might just sneak a flag! 

Go Demons! seize the day!

2021 - year of the sneaky flag! I like it. Given we are nowhere near our prime, a flag this year would be delicious. 

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Yikes. Squiggle now has us finishing 3rd (includes this round's results) playing Cats Week 1. A loss sees us playing Sydney @ the G (or wherever Covid dictates)  then Dogs to make the GF. Finishing first is probably seeing us play PA week 1 and an easier run. A win in week 1, if we finish 3rd or I think 2nd) v Cats, will likely see us play the Lions in a prelim.

The losses to lower teams are starting to manifest now as substantial draw risk in the finals.

Obviously there's no getting away from beating the Cats or Dogs I don't think but a second chance would be handy from 1st or 2nd.

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1 minute ago, Red But Mostly Blue said:

2021 - year of the sneaky flag! I like it. Given we are nowhere near our prime, a flag this year would be delicious. 

I feel like not making the GF this year would be a huge waste given our draw and our start. It would leave a very sour taste. Opportunities like this do not come along often and we're not a dynasty-like Hawks or reliable Cats outfit.

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2 hours ago, BW511 said:

So the question then arises, when all the talk pre-season was about the group buy in and being selfless, how can the last 6 weeks have happened?

Have we used all our petrol tickets too early in the year?

Were we too reliant on the young guys (Riv, Jacko, Kossie) to provide spark?

Are they all a bit fatigued and trying to feather their own nests?

Has the Weideman/Brown drama caused some instability, likewise Viney being rushed back in?

In my opinion, Jordon being shifted out of the permanent mid role has reduced our efficiency. He is very balanced and smart around the ball, his tackles stick and he genuinely plays a team-first style. He also covers the ground well.

Same could be said for Sparrow, he didn't win the ball as much as Viney and was prone to the odd brain fade, but he was definitely working to the team first mantra. We had a more dynamic mix early in the year.

 

 

It's all about the individual. They get sucked into the media hype and coaches votes from say the Port Adelaide game, and so then it's all about who can be the hero to get the Monday special mention.

Look at the way Oliver carried on like a pork chop when Spargo takes that mark. You would never seen Selwood or Hodge carry on like he did. It looked like a teammate pulled him up on it and so they should.

Even at half time when the camera panned to Oliver and Petracca and they are seen laughing and giggling inside the change rooms. I knew straight away then that this game was going to be close as initially thought.

It's all mental. These blokes pick and choose when they want to show up and player footy on the back of 0 success.

Edited by dazzledavey36
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22 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

On field leadership and coaching.

Earlier in the year there was a huge amount of talk and positioning for certain events. Its virtually stopped. We're back to bees to the honeypot, not positioning properly, not doing selfless things etc etc

Gawn, Oliver, Viney and petracca are playing lke individuals again. Langdon hasn't been the same since coming back.

The fwd line is still dysfunctional with crumbers nowhere to be seen this week and as demonstrated by Vineys burst through the middle and not one fwd leading at him

This brings me back to my point about Jordon and Sparrow being involved earlier in the year. The midfield worked better with different guys rolling through, they had to collectively think about it a little more. At this point I am not sure that Gawn, Trac and Oliver know which play to employ or when.

Trac and Clayton are definitely tight and it is probably part of what makes them so good, however they need to be given a proper kick up the [censored] regarding the selfless mantra the club supposedly values. 

11 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

It's all about the individual. They get sucked into the media hype and coaches votes from say the Port Adelaide game, and so then it's all about who can be the hero to get the Monday special mention.

Look at the way Oliver carried on like a pork chop when Spargo takes that mark. You would never seen Selwood or Hodge carry on like he did. It looked like a teammate pulled him up on it and so they should.

Even at half time when the camera panned to Oliver and Petracca and they are seen laughing and giggling inside the change rooms. I knew straight away then that this game was going to be close as initially thought.

It's all mental. These blokes pick and choose when they want to show up and player footy on the back of 0 success.

The media always has them as in the upper echelon, but never without a caveat . Trac could take over Dusty's mantle if he could do it each week, Oliver could be the best player in the comp if he runs and kicks more. They have to want to be the best and to do that, it needs to be unconditional that the effort is there every contest, every week.

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