As a result of the injuries sustained by Ollie Wines and Fasolo do you think players should make the sacrifice to give up on dangerous extra curricular activities during the season (and on the eve of the season)?

I don't often agree with Cornes and he usually makes contrarian comments to provoke a response but I think he's spot on here. Sure players need to have fun and not become robots but should we draw a line at dangerous activities? Yeah accidents can happen and what is considered a dangerous activity but surely a little common sense should be used.

Thoughts?

I'm not commenting on the specifics of the most recent injuries, but I believe that even when I'm not working I have a responsibility not to do things that put my employability at risk. I suspect not everyone will agree, but in my view, if you want to be paid above award rates, or above the average for that type of work, you should recognise that the other side of that coin is a need to do more than just the minimum. For mine, that means presenting myself in the best possible manner and the follow on from that is that I should not take unnecessary risks, even when I'm not at work. The greater the reward (meaning, in this instance, the higher the financial compensation above the award rate or average pay), the greater the responsibility.

The converse is that if I want to turn up to work hungover or not in physical shape to do my job (apart from unavoidable illnesses or accidents), I shouldn't expect to be paid the higher rate (or, in some instances, to even have that job).

Absolutely- they are paid big bucks to be elite athletes and part of that is to avoid any high risk activity that may result in injuries.

I personally think that includes alcohol as puritanical as it sounds 

I thought there was fairly long list of things they couldn't do. Perhaps the AFLPA has changed things lately.

Players cant even where thongs at some clubs (footwear that is).

I like the title - and perhaps it's more accurate as

 Should Players Make Sacrifices on the Road to Non Guarenteed Success

Edited January 29, 20196 yr by Engorged Onion

Rational me: Perhaps they should, but these are young men and whatever outlet they choose in their small amount of time off of an incredibly difficult job should not be dictated to them. Most of the time we would hope that common sense prevails.  

Me after learning Clayton Oliver hurts himself badly water skiing in December: Keep them in cages during the off season 

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

I like the title - and perhaps it's more accurate as

 Should Players Make Sacrifices on the Road to Non Guarenteed Success

Depends what you call success 'Engorged'...

I would think playing at AFL level and earning the money they earn qualifies as being a success.

You can't guarantee a flag but it's not a bad career, a career that is many a kids dream.

If you have to make some sacrifices along the way to prolong it, well that would seem a no brainer to me...

The Wines and Fasolo incidents were entirely different and have been treated as such by the clubs and most media. 

Cornes is a DH. 

Players should not be wrapped in cotton wool because doing things such as water skiing and surfing is what makes athletes who they are when not working (playing footy).

Take that away from them and you’d probably find they become less competitive in season because they’ve been sheltered little petals for 5 months. 

To be an elite sportsperson you don't make sacrifices, you make choices.

The players have to have lives and hobbies outside of football. What risks they want to take in relation to extra-curricular activities is purely up to them. 

Edited January 30, 20196 yr by Ethan Tremblay

I wouldn't listen to a word Dangerfield dribbles out.

He wants less games, shorter quarters but more pay.

 

Not left or right wing: human beings and employees have the right to make whatever choices they want to outside of work regardless of how much they are paid. It couldn't be more simple. If they screw-up and do something that may impact their work performance, that will impact their future employment and work contract negotiations.

Well they are not allowed to snow ski so why are they allowed to water ski ? 

3 minutes ago, dl4e said:

Well they are not allowed to snow ski so why are they allowed to water ski ? 

wines has apparently being water skiing (continuously) since he was 6 years old and is quite an accomplished water skier. He apparently had a freak foul-up with the rope and dislocated his shoulder which a local hospital popped back in. It was just bad luck by all reports and not a case of him doing something stupid or beyond his skills.

5 hours ago, chook fowler said:

Absolutely- they are paid big bucks to be elite athletes and part of that is to avoid any high risk activity that may result in injuries.

I personally think that includes alcohol as puritanical as it sounds 

The players also have to look after their mental health and come back mentally fresh to attack another intense year. I don't condone drunken fights, but water skiing should be fine.  take away players relaxing/fun activities and the pressure and frustration will build.

what's next, surfing, bike riding?  accidents happen

just don't play basketball with your dogs

I'd argue that it is something for players to decide for themselves, and the choices they make will and should be reflected in their contracts.

"Great player, huge natural talent, constantly re-injured because has no drinking discipline during recovery from surgery". "Great player, huge natural talent, can't rack up midfield minutes because like fried food a bit much"

I mean, realistically, Petracca for example would be earning a lot more by now if he handn't pranged himself playing (basketball, I think?), Sam Blease's career might have been a whole different deal without that nasty break playing schoolyard kick to kick.

Of course, there are also players who have missed half a season after slipping in the bathtub or tripping on a fence cable. It is all increments of risk with a huge grey area.

Long story short:

Players can make decisions about their off-field behaviour and risks they are willing to take based on their own understanding and comfort, clubs should educate and encourage good decision-making, some stupid risks can legitimately be ruled out, and in the end it all shapes what a player is worth to a club.

as long as they don't participate in ridiculous non-football related off-season activities like AFLX

It's also not as though the consequence of injuries like these are only felt by the 'employers'. Players at this level (mostly) are super competitive - they hate being on the sidelines. Anything they choose to do is with this risk in mind, there's really no greater deterrent that could be imposed on them than the idea of missing a season or having a career-ending injury.

These are situations worked out between the players and coaches at the Exit Meetings

This is why Goodwin needs to “know” his players. What they enjoy most relaxing, whether an activity is cool or just too much. 

The Club (that includes us The Members) is paying big $$$’s for our players to be fit and ready to go. 

Now of course unforeseen accidents can happen, but i think the brakes do need to be applied in certain circumstances

High risk extreme sports - climbing Mt Everest, heliskiing, base jumping, cave diving. It's pretty clear to me that AFL players should avoid that stuff for their entire careers and I'd be putting in a contract. Break a bunch of bones doing something that risky and we aren't paying you for it.

Moderate risk sports - well you can probably do them in your holiday period and early in preseason. That's stuff like jumping off a cliff at a tourist spot, going to surf a big break, getting the dirt bike out. If the risks aren't too bad and you're careful then I'd allow it. 

Lower risk stuff like a casual surf should be encouraged all year round with the understanding that players factor in the activity level as part of their rehab/conditioning. 

The difficulty with the Wines scenario is 8 weeks out from the season is right in the zone where before hand it's probably not a big deal but any closer and it's right in season mode where you can't afford injuries or distractions. Apart from the byes this is the last weekend where the players got a break before the end of their season so it makes sense for them to enjoy themselves a bit. Then from an activity point of view waterskiing for him isn't what it is for other people, he's experienced enough it's probably no different than an experienced surfer (like Nath Jones) catching some decent waves. But if the video of him that's surfaced from a few years ago is accurate then it's not like he was just cruising along.

The combination of slightly riskier than standard activity with a time that's closer to the season isn't a good combination. 

4 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

I'd argue that it is something for players to decide for themselves, and the choices they make will and should be reflected in their contracts.

"Great player, huge natural talent, constantly re-injured because has no drinking discipline during recovery from surgery". "Great player, huge natural talent, can't rack up midfield minutes because like fried food a bit much"

I mean, realistically, Petracca for example would be earning a lot more by now if he handn't pranged himself playing (basketball, I think?), Sam Blease's career might have been a whole different deal without that nasty break playing schoolyard kick to kick.

Of course, there are also players who have missed half a season after slipping in the bathtub or tripping on a fence cable. It is all increments of risk with a huge grey area.

Long story short:

Players can make decisions about their off-field behaviour and risks they are willing to take based on their own understanding and comfort, clubs should educate and encourage good decision-making, some stupid risks can legitimately be ruled out, and in the end it all shapes what a player is worth to a club.

I'm sure that early career schoolyard injury didn't help, but I'm pretty sure it's not the reason Blease never became the AFL player the equal of his athletic ability.

As far as I can make out, the biggest injury impact on Patracca's career to date was when he tore his second ACL at training during his first preseason (.  https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/melbournes-no-2-draft-pick-christian-petracca-tears-anterior-cruciate-ligament-at-demons-training/news-story/00dab6be48b7f26bc8ea59b8817f9d72) It wouldn't have helped loosing a season of onfeild development, but similarly, don't think that has nessasrily been the key limitation on his development as a player.

Honestly my assessment is that the occurrences of an off the ground injury significantly negatively impacting an AFL players career are pretty rare.  If they are a good enough player an isolated incident just becomes a footnote in their career bio.  By far the biggest injury exposure these guys face is playing and training.

Sure these guys earn good money, but they are not the club's property.  To restrict them to everything under the sun that might remotely cause them an injury would be completely draconian and robbing these guys of the opportunity to live life during their youth/prime.  Let's face it these guy's already sacrifice a fair bit compared to the average individual to get where they have got.  As others have pointed out,  most players will be self regulating with regards this kind of thing and in instances where they are not, the the club, team mates and it's leadership have a role to educate them and inform them of the consequences.  It's only habitual repeat offenders that are really a problem for which there are natural consequences and I think most players are smart enough to work that out.

Edited January 30, 20196 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

I wounder if Stephen Tingay had a clause in his contract about not falling through glass windows!!

7 hours ago, daisycutter said:

wines has apparently being water skiing (continuously) since he was 6 years old and is quite an accomplished water skier. He apparently had a freak foul-up with the rope and dislocated his shoulder which a local hospital popped back in. It was just bad luck by all reports and not a case of him doing something stupid or beyond his skills.

So, a water skier, not a downhill skier or a snow skier.  Maybe that is why the (bad old time) Dees didn't pick him?

Edited January 30, 20196 yr by monoccular

Wines had the permission of the club, a non-issue.

 

years ago, I used to fly for Sktdive Byron bay, on a holiday during a bye, Mark Jamar did a tandem jump and good on him

He could have got injured playing Netball. Didnt Petracca do his finger playing Basketball?

Fail to see the difference, Cornes is a [censored].