The Need for Outside Midfielders

[Elegt 872]

Goodwin got caught out today playing sparrow and vanders on the wingers. Blokes like Hunter and JJ had field days

[Half forward flank 1,022]

19 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Its still a massive need. Vanders was exposed badly today by Hunter. He was not by himself.

We have so many one paced plodders like Vanders, Jones, Sparrow, Tomlinson who we are having to run through the wings because we have nothing else on offer. When you're playing those guys on the outside, good teams expose you.

Where is Oska Baker at? I really like his work last year, and much rather him or Hunt on a wing then a Vanders/Jones.

With you on Baker,  He is a wingman with pace, Yes needs to develop but so to does most of the team. It is a bit like how the aussie Cricket team used to operate. Once you were in, you were in. It literally does not matter what some of our best players do or dont do. They will always be selected.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

100% need better balance still.

I felt like we were starting to get it a bit better, but Goodwin went slowly back to preferring inside mids like Sparrow playing outside, and I made this exact point during team selection last week.

Id rather see Baker get a crack, or if we don’t have the player on the list, we desperately need to bring more in (Tomlinson obviously isn’t the answer).

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

49 minutes ago, Elegt said:

Goodwin got caught out today playing sparrow and vanders on the wingers. Blokes like Hunter and JJ had field days

My best guess is Goody is a "set and forget" coach who appears to believe that if you overwhelm your opponent with heavy contested ball winners and win the ball with numbers at the contest then everything else will look after itself.

The trouble is when you don't win this area (say the opp evens up the contested / clearances or gets close, or even worse wins it) then that template has failed at the first hurdle.

Add to that some terrible execution when you do win it and zero pressure on their HBs in transition, and you have yourself the continual recipe for failure against anyone capable of bringing those two factors (for long enough).

St Kilda will do exactly the same and unless Goody brings a different look, we'll get exactly the same outcome.

[BW511 2,675]

5 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

My best guess is Goody is a "set and forget" coach who appears to believe that if you overwhelm your opponent with heavy contested ball winners and win the ball with numbers at the contest then everything else will look after itself.

The trouble is when you don't win this area (say the opp evens up the contested / clearances or gets close, or even worse wins it) then that template has failed at the first hurdle.

Add to that some terrible execution when you do win it and zero pressure on their HBs in transition, and you have yourself the continual recipe for failure against anyone capable of bringing those two factors (for long enough).

St Kilda will do exactly the same and unless Goody brings a different look, we'll get exactly the same outcome.

Of all the teams where you can’t afford this mindset, the doggies and saints would be top of the tree.

There’s a reason plenty were nervous coming into this game and it played out exactly that way. 

The doggies adjusted at half time to make things work for them and we doubled down on everything we were doing wrong.

its just extremely hard to back this team and coaching panel to bring the required mindset every single week

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 minutes ago, BW511 said:

Of all the teams where you can’t afford this mindset, the doggies and saints would be top of the tree.

There’s a reason plenty were nervous coming into this game and it played out exactly that way. 

The doggies adjusted at half time to make things work for them and we doubled down on everything we were doing wrong.

its just extremely hard to back this team and coaching panel to bring the required mindset every single week

Bennell, if fit, should be in this week and if he is fit i would leave him in for the remainder of the season and see what he can bring.  There's nothing to lose and everything to gain here.

Vanders could do with a rest.  He's played his part for now.  Time to see what Harley can bring.

[Elegt 872]

4 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Bennell, if fit, should be in this week and if he is fit i would leave him in for the remainder of the season and see what he can bring.  There's nothing to lose and everything to gain here.

Vanders could do with a rest.  He's played his part for now.  Time to see what Harley can bring.

unfortunately Bennell isn''t a high pressure player with pace. Oskar Baker surely gets a run

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

17 minutes ago, Elegt said:

unfortunately Bennell isn''t a high pressure player with pace. Oskar Baker surely gets a run

He potentially brings class and finish though something that Baker probably doesn't have at this early stage.

I'd roll the dice and give him a 3 match minimum run and see what he can bring (if he's fit enough to run out a full game that is).

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

When we win the stoppage we don’t exit with poise and composure against good sides. Under pressure we bomb it. 
 

When we loose the stoppage, good teams murder us on the outside time and time again. We get sucked in and don’t chase ... doggies are a class act and they showed it but a top 4 side would negate the handball game quite easily with pressure. 

[layzie 33,862]

If we were a team that created more contests then that would make sense winning on contested ball alone. There's too many oxymorons about the way we play or how we say we want to play.

If we want to be this contested beast team we should just be kicking long to contests and forcing stoppages rather than trying to be a play on team. If we want to be a 'lock the ball in the 50' team then we need to not have an abysmal record at forward 50 stoppages. I'm sure this is the moment where someone tells me our forward 50 stoppage scoring rate this year is not bad or some stat to refute my claims but just get off the grass. We offer nothing from them and we stink at them. 

[layzie 33,862]

2 hours ago, Elegt said:

unfortunately Bennell isn''t a high pressure player with pace. Oskar Baker surely gets a run

Ok so the issue I have with this throw away line (that the club liked to use early this season) is that Bennell gets dropped the moment he misses a tackle but someone like Melksham can just stand in the 50 and offer zero pressure and get his 1 cruddy tackle for the game and not come close to being dropped. It's just complete and total crap. If we're holding players to these 'defensive pressure' standards then this needs to be a team wide expectation. 

[Elegt 872]

2 minutes ago, layzie said:

Ok so the issue I have with this throw away line (that the club liked to use early this season) is that Bennell gets dropped the moment he misses a tackle but someone like Melksham can just stand in the 50 and offer zero pressure and get his 1 cruddy tackle for the game and not come close to being dropped. It's just complete and total crap. If we're holding players to these 'defensive pressure' standards then this needs to be a team wide expectation. 

Yep melksham needs a kick up the bum too but he is goodys mate

[Nascent 9,217]

I wonder if we have a solution for this on our list in Mitch Hannan. He has the attributes to be a good winger with speed, height and ability overhead and he is often clean with the footy with a neat kick on his left. The question mark would probably be his endurance base to cover the ground back and forth like Langdon does. 

Currently the main issue I have with his game is that he often goes missing at length and I think that isn't helped by playing in our forward 50 where we have similar mid sized forwards in Melksham and Fritsch that are often used as hit up targets. Perhaps Hannan to a wing could improve our dynamic in the forward half while solving our outside run and spread? Worth a shot at least in my view.

[spirit of norm smith 16,477]

Hunter and JJohannnnnnsen were laughing. Simply walked around Vandenburg and Sparrow. They knew they had the leg speed. 

Goodwin was too slow to realise it. 
 

We need outside mids. I’d draft 3 young kids in the draft exactly for this. That’s the priority. 
 

short term - Baker must come in.  He must be given a chance. And memo to Goodloss.  Let him run and run. 

[Bizzell Blitz 26]

Sam Murray ex Pie speed to burn can play, would ya?

[Gee N 25]

We need more pace off half back. Salem delivers reasonable well but is fairly slow. Lever should be played of half back flank, Tomlinson is doing ok  and play Hunt on the other flank .I agree Hannah on the wing or give Baker some time there ,. But our main problem is congestion in the midfield., all trying to get a kick or a stat being stationary waiting for ruck hit out opposition reads our tap and are on the move pas  to the outside runner and clear forward and goal. Happens nearly every week and is why we are so easy to scored against , with pressure always on the defence. Yesterday we were out coached in the third quarter in particular allowing their midfield to use our ruck dominance to their advantage.We also have very few versatile players that can be moved to cover the opposition and still perform.

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

This has been a glaring concern for what seems like a decade and our recruiters seem none the wiser.  

We are one of the slowest teams in the comp and have been screaming out for clean ball users with pace in the middle for far too long. Langdon has been a great pickup for the wing but he's unlikely to go into centre bounces where we need it most. 

We have an abundance of hard nut inside ball winning mids but we simply have to move one of them on to be replaced by what we need.

Until this is done we'll get more of the same unfulfilled, wasted seasons for years to come. 

[Bay Riffin 1,475]

Agree with a lot of this. I was flabbergasted when we drafted Sparrow after throwing everything at inside mids. How many can you possibly have ? And hearing Jordan is developing as an inside mid. Just sounds like insanity to me. Where do they think we were going to play them?

Its like the coaching and recruiting staff can’t see what everyone else can plainly see. 

Langdon is now our most important transition player. And he needs more fast mates. It’s like we don’t value pace or kicking skills at all. 
 

kozzie defies that trend last year at the draft and perhaps they have woken up. But 5 years too late. 

[DeeZone 9,874]

To be totally honest I would like to see Rivers, Hunt and Baker come in for the rest of the year, we really needed them last week but better late than never. I agree with a lot of posters on here, if players are not performing you cannot keep giving them games on the chance that they will improve. If we do not bring some additional pace and skill into the mix this week I will fair dinkum chuck up!! You should have seen the look on my Grandson's face in that third quarter, he said to me come on Grandad I can't watch this any more..!!?

[Elegt 872]

On 7/2/2018 at 4:55 PM, KingDingAling said:

No way would I do that or even nearly do that. Brayshaw is trending upwards in a massive way. Great month of footy and is improving every game. He would be our most improved this year. Gaff is a vanilla mid, who whilst I acknowledge he is mostly an outside mid, he is a slow outside mid. We need a Tim Kelly type mid - blistering on the outside. Personally I wouldn't even entertain a straight swap of Brayshaw for Gaff. Gaff is a FA and if WC match him then they can have him. Gaff is massively overrated on this board. 

I'd love Gaff at the dees. Great player

[Superunknown 4,217]

On 8/22/2020 at 7:00 PM, Half forward flank said:

With you on Baker,  He is a wingman with pace, Yes needs to develop but so to does most of the team. It is a bit like how the aussie Cricket team used to operate. Once you were in, you were in. It literally does not matter what some of our best players do or dont do. They will always be selected.

Just leaving this here.

 

[Superunknown 4,217]

6 minutes ago, Elegt said:

I'd love Gaff at the dees. Great player

What fresh hell is this? He's a master accumulator, what!

[spirit of norm smith 16,477]

I’d go the draft to get some quick skilled outside mids. There is a few coming through. See draft threads. 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,704]

We are not a defensive based side, Saints at the Gabba will absolutely carve us up.

We have absolutely zero pressure from our forward half, we allow other teams the first kick out and once the link up of that second chain through a handball or kick we are completely pharked.

We still can't compete for four quarters against the better teams as our coaches don't nip things in the butt, if a player is red hot or a system backfires they'd rather it fix itself.

One of my most hated new generation sayings is "the result will take care of itself".

It gives me the absolute shyzenhauzens when i hear it, what is it suppose to imply? It makes players fall into a false sense of securtiy that everything will be alright, completely forgetting about pressure, hitting targets and kicking for goals. 

We have been good in these categories for the last 3 weeks because all the teams are coming off 4 day breaks and are [censored] but we must hit these key indicators (KPI's).

FMD.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Win4theAges

[deelusions from afar 1,810]

3 hours ago, Bay Riffin said:

Agree with a lot of this. I was flabbergasted when we drafted Sparrow after throwing everything at inside mids. How many can you possibly have ? And hearing Jordan is developing as an inside mid. Just sounds like insanity to me. Where do they think we were going to play them?

Its like the coaching and recruiting staff can’t see what everyone else can plainly see. 

Langdon is now our most important transition player. And he needs more fast mates. It’s like we don’t value pace or kicking skills at all. 
 

kozzie defies that trend last year at the draft and perhaps they have woken up. But 5 years too late. 

Agree 100% BR.  I was very disappointed to hear we drafted Sparrow (not a knock on the kid but we had lots of players that play his role already when he was drafted) but the talk at the time was that he is very quick and able to accelerate away from congestion.  Haven't seen this yet but he hasn't played a lot of senior footy so too early to know.  Maybe the VFL watchers from last year might know better.

 

Equally Jordan was picked as an outside mid / back flanker with good disposal skills.  My understanding was that when he wasn't having much impact playing these roles at VFL last year they put him in the square and realised that's where he belongs.