Post Match Discussion: JLT #2 vs St. Kilda

[P-man 13,366]

Jonesy is an absolute star in my eyes and always will be. Give the man an 11 out of 10 from me. 

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

On 09/03/2018 at 6:15 PM, willmoy said:

We've had several, sparse though, and going back a few years, and the ruck used to be included.........

Shoot me some names. I asked a mate in his mid 40s this question. He said the last really great mid we had was Viney. that's a long time with Moloney, Leoncelli, Johnstone types. We loved them and were all very loyal. But Oliver... you watch him and you know he's really a next level midfielder the likes of which I haven't seen in red and blue.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Good players not great. Nowhere near the level of all time greats of the game.

B Wilson was very close to being a top line player. During the Northey years Brian always put in. He was tough in the guts and clever releasing the ball. Like Watts he    was always looking for the best option. Not just a kick and hope

[Earl Hood 6,086]

55 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Shoot me some names. I asked a mate in his mid 40s this question. He said the last really great mid we had was Viney. that's a long time with Moloney, Leoncelli, Johnstone types. We loved them and were all very loyal. But Oliver... you watch him and you know he's really a next level midfielder the likes of which I haven't seen in red and blue.

Scott Thompson but unfortunately he got away to Adelaide, an absolute gun in my opinion but maybe never quite recognised as such by the footy public. 

[Diamond_Jim 12,590]

Travis Johnstone when on song could win a game off his own boot. He played the game as if he had his own time and space.

Unfortunately we did not see it that often.

His third quarter against Adelaide in a preliminary final will go down as the best quarter I have ever seen played by a Melbourne player.

A conundrum ... you bet... Jack Watts x 2-3 in that department

[DV8 2,271]

8 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

The Weed needs lots of games but at what cost? He does have attributes so one must wonder by now if he is really training his heart out to make the improvements for the cut. He needs weeks of aggressive, driven performances in the VFL team and very close mentoring, otherwise we will have another prospective tall held in abeyance season by season. He has a great football heritage upon which he can draw, no doubt. It is time for the Weed to turn the corner. Consistently.

Yes, I'm saying the same thing I think.  That we need to get games into him (when he is ready to take them on this season) but not at suffering poor form and lost premiership points.

Nonetheless we need for our longer-term strength, to get him up & running.   There will be changes at end of year, & I think Weide is a long term player for us. hoping.

But we need to get our spine matured and TMc is a part timer IMV as a key forward.  TMc really is a small follower, who rolls into the forwardline. handy. 

TMc lacks class to be the 1st or 2nd tall.

 

 

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Travis Johnstone when on song could win a game off his own boot. He played the game as if he had his own time and space.

Unfortunately we did not see it that often.

His third quarter against Adelaide in a preliminary final will go down as the best quarter I have ever seen played by a Melbourne player.

A conundrum ... you bet... Jack Watts x 2-3 in that department

I agree. Even though we ultimately lost the game, Travis Johnstone’s 3rd quarter against the Crows in 2002 is the best (short) period of football I have ever seen by any player. It was unbelievable. I can’t recall being more excited watching footy as I was at 3/4 time in that game. I couldn’t speak following the final siren though. Was a devastating and ultimately undeserved loss.

 

[deelete my account 1,194]

1 hour ago, DV8 said:

Yes, I'm saying the same thing I think.  That we need to get games into him (when he is ready to take them on this season) but not at suffering poor form and lost premiership points.

Nonetheless we need for our longer-term strength, to get him up & running.   There will be changes at end of year, & I think Weide is a long term player for us. hoping.

But we need to get our spine matured and TMc is a part timer IMV as a key forward.  TMc really is a small follower, who rolls into the forwardline. handy. 

TMc lacks class to be the 1st or 2nd tall.

This may sound extremely offensive and ridiculous and at risk of derision, but is there a chance that Collingwood are into the Weed in a big way with his history (eg Eddie's bitter coverage of Weeds first game with a brief rundown of Collingwood history) and are maybe in his ear to come to Collingwood? His slow development might actually be his heart not being in it. They Pies are notorious deceivers around trades as we've now learnt. Of course Weed is only a young kid so he's also probably naturally taking time to develop.

Edited March 10, 2018 by Doodle Dee

[Dr. Gonzo 24,221]

39 minutes ago, Doodle Dee said:

This may sound extremely offensive and ridiculous and at risk of derision, but is there a chance that Collingwood are into the Weed in a big way with his history (eg Eddie's bitter coverage of Weeds first game with a brief rundown of Collingwood history) and are maybe in his ear to come to Collingwood? His slow development might actually be his heart not being in it. They Pies are notorious deceivers around trades as we've now learnt. Of course Weed is only a young kid so he's also probably naturally taking time to develop.

Maybe he's just not that good?

[deelete my account 1,194]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Maybe he's just not that good?

Gawnams Razor strikes again

Edited March 10, 2018 by Doodle Dee

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

52 minutes ago, Doodle Dee said:

This may sound extremely offensive and ridiculous and at risk of derision, but is there a chance that Collingwood are into the Weed in a big way with his history (eg Eddie's bitter coverage of Weeds first game with a brief rundown of Collingwood history) and are maybe in his ear to come to Collingwood? His slow development might actually be his heart not being in it. They Pies are notorious deceivers around trades as we've now learnt. Of course Weed is only a young kid so he's also probably naturally taking time to develop.

I agree, it’s ridiculous. 

[DV8 2,271]

1 hour ago, Doodle Dee said:

This may sound extremely offensive and ridiculous and at risk of derision, but is there a chance that Collingwood are into the Weed in a big way with his history (eg Eddie's bitter coverage of Weeds first game with a brief rundown of Collingwood history) and are maybe in his ear to come to Collingwood? His slow development might actually be his heart not being in it. They Pies are notorious deceivers around trades as we've now learnt. Of course Weed is only a young kid so he's also probably naturally taking time to develop.

I don't think so. He missed most of a season prior to draft being drafted.  And has just had operations on his legs.  So is just coming back, apparently his first hitout of this preseason.

I reckon it would better judgement mid season.  Thats should answer any questions around effort intensity by then, & if his hits some form, then that as well.

[Farmer 883]

On 09/03/2018 at 6:51 PM, Deemania since 56 said:

I think all of our currently fit players might well stack up against Geelong. Certainly our team game will confound them for some time. Tom Hawkins rips us apart, mostly. That is going to be our main area of concern with Geelong's delivery system. I'd slow him down a little in terms of his own personal tactics to win the ball with a radical trial of '...he who can take a knock, push, punch and body slam...', namely Pedo! Pedo can also bring the ball to ground and his mass is ideal. There are elites around Pedo who can play the ball out from there. 

Pedo has been hopeless in defence. I like him but not as a defender

[Deemania since 56 6,640]

11 hours ago, Farmer said:

Pedo has been hopeless in defence. I like him but not as a defender

I thought it was radical.

[Willmoy1947 4,090]

15 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

Shoot me some names. I asked a mate in his mid 40s this question. He said the last really great mid we had was Viney. that's a long time with Moloney, Leoncelli, Johnstone types. We loved them and were all very loyal. But Oliver... you watch him and you know he's really a next level midfielder the likes of which I haven't seen in red and blue.

There is a bloke i remember played in the middle in three Champion sides in the fifties Laurie Mithen, who i actually saw play play but i wasn't really interested because i liked tennis and running more. He and Adams, who used to be able to run, were pretty versatile too.... 

read the book 125 years of Melbourne Demons.

Townsend and Kenny Emselle and Barassi were, when together in the middle, a Champion Midfield.

[Redleg 40,926]

On 3/9/2018 at 3:15 PM, Dappa Dan said:

Interesting. Jones I put in more as a placeholder. It seems to me they play a similar sort of role, and I reckon whoever gets more minutes in the guts gets the bigger stats... So Tyson played more minutes this time... does that mean that's his role all year? I think once the angry stuff starts, Jones is the guy that goes in, and goes in for whole games. He really is a better player overall than Tyson. (Not that I'm not a Tyson fan) The original Plan A/Plan B point was more about what happens with Oliver and Viney... When do they go in, what happens when they're not in, for how long do we keep them in before we risk them breaking down... and also how do we lessen the damage caused when they're not in. If a side as bad as what the Saints were at half time can put a run on like that... then we have a serious problem going into this season. I feel like we have our starting 3 in there... Jones, Viney, Oliver.... next 3 Tracca, Tyson, ANB... Then a smattering of Salem, Harmes, Lewis, Stretch and Maynard... Maybe Hogan here and there.... If you look at those tiers... one is scary... the next isn't. And the part timers aren't at all.

Sure, efficiency is great when you have it. But we're not the most skilled team in the comp. Also we went for a lot of torps... partly because of conditions. No way we use those bombs in the proper season. I'm not complaining necessarily that we had less touches... but I am very interested.... Last year we were one of the really high possession sides. What are the implications now? Has Goody changed things seriously or was he rolling with a specific game plan just for JLT. I find it interesting and stimulating.

I love Vince. Love him. Have never understood the Vince hate. I just find it really hard in the current 22 to fit them all in. I feel like Hunt is too important and has too many strengths not to play, even though he hasn't done much so far. Braysh as well I think is borderline, but has probably done enough. Stretch, as I said, I'm just still unsure on. But I think his dash will open things up, as long as he can give 4 quarters. He's apparently covered himself in glory the whole pre season, so my gut feel is he'll get the nod.

Hannan I'm not quite as much with you. We have so many of these small forwards, high half forwards. Hannan does some miraculous things... but drifts out of games for whole halves at a time. I feel like he and Harmes are quite similar. I have been saying it for a while, there is nothing on a football field Harmes can't do. Literally has every skill you'd want, like a Stevie J. Does he put them all together? yes... sometimes... he's had some massive dominant games with all round stats like tackling, forward pressure, goal kicking accuracy... and he can defend like the dickens for a whole game if you need. It's funny he has Watts' number cos I think he'll be up and down the ground like Watts was. I feel like Hannan, as much as he's a good player... Harmes has a similar role up forward and brings a huge amount to the table. I feel like Fritsch will be given two weeks to make an impact. If he gets bundled out of contests by mature bodies in either, Hannan comes in for him.

A couple of points, my knock on Tyson is his disposal. If he gets that right he is a good player.

I don't think there is Vince hate on here, rather it is Vince disappointment with a couple of his brain fade suspensions and some bad turnovers.

Hannan is 189cms and can take pack marks and is not a small forward.

Edited March 11, 2018 by Redleg

[Redleg 40,926]

13 hours ago, Doodle Dee said:

This may sound extremely offensive and ridiculous and at risk of derision, but is there a chance that Collingwood are into the Weed in a big way with his history (eg Eddie's bitter coverage of Weeds first game with a brief rundown of Collingwood history) and are maybe in his ear to come to Collingwood? His slow development might actually be his heart not being in it. They Pies are notorious deceivers around trades as we've now learnt. Of course Weed is only a young kid so he's also probably naturally taking time to develop.

Think they would prefer that bloke up North in the yellow and red jumper.

[jnrmac 20,090]

14 hours ago, DV8 said:

Yes, I'm saying the same thing I think.  That we need to get games into him (when he is ready to take them on this season) but not at suffering poor form and lost premiership points.

Nonetheless we need for our longer-term strength, to get him up & running.   There will be changes at end of year, & I think Weide is a long term player for us. hoping.

But we need to get our spine matured and TMc is a part timer IMV as a key forward.  TMc really is a small follower, who rolls into the forwardline. handy. 

TMc lacks class to be the 1st or 2nd tall.

 

 

This would have to be one of the most incorrect/misguided statements I have read on this forum.

[jnrmac 20,090]

16 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

Shoot me some names. I asked a mate in his mid 40s this question. He said the last really great mid we had was Viney. that's a long time with Moloney, Leoncelli, Johnstone types. We loved them and were all very loyal. But Oliver... you watch him and you know he's really a next level midfielder the likes of which I haven't seen in red and blue.

Greg Wells

[old dee 23,792]

On 10/03/2018 at 11:38 AM, DV8 said:

No.  School is out on Hoges in my mind, Re going west at some time. And he will play more midfield time this year, so that opens up places for another tall, from time to time.

That will open up opportunity for Weideman, who will need more games this year to continue his development.

Pedo is more likely in his last year?  at least in the senior side, in 2018.  He may play in 2019 as a backup option?

So we have to get games into Weide during 2018.

 

Beyond 2018, who knows what Hoges will be doing.  So, I posted that as a thought provoking statement. to look further forward, away from what the players do on the field of play.

Do you want to win those games? The guy needs to prove he can do well at Casey before you worry about AFL.

[rpfc 28,441]

I feel as though the 'Extra Handball of Pointlessness' is being eradicated on a small sample set to be sure.

I think @Clint Bizkit was one to agree that this one of our biggest issues last year - thoughts?

Maybe I am seeing what I want to see.

[Willmoy1947 4,090]

28 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I feel as though the 'Extra Handball of Pointlessness' is being eradicated on a small sample set to be sure.

I think @Clint Bizkit was one to agree that this one of our biggest issues last year - thoughts?

Maybe I am seeing what I want to see.

Yes, agree with this, and maybe the torp in general play more if time to do it properly out of defence. Ie Blues last night......

[Vagg 2,439]

2 hours ago, willmoy said:

 

Townsend and Kenny Emselle and Barassi were, when together in the middle, a Champion Midfield.

Agreed.  Alas, I seem to recall that both Townsend and Emselle suffered some serious injuries and, when one was on the park, the other was injured.  Not sure how many games they actually got to play in the same side, but both were seriously good Rovers.  That Barassi bloke wasn't too shabby, either, in the Ruck-Rover role that he basically invented!

Of course, around the same time, there was a very special lad running around on the HFF, snagging a few goals.  Can't quite remember his name...

Oh, that's right.  Some no-name bloke called Barrie Vagg...!  LOL

[Deemania since 56 6,640]

6 minutes ago, Vagg said:

Agreed.  Alas, I seem to recall that both Townsend and Emselle suffered some serious injuries and, when one was on the park, the other was injured.  Not sure how many games they actually got to play in the same side, but both were seriously good Rovers.  That Barassi bloke wasn't too shabby, either, in the Ruck-Rover role that he basically invented!

Of course, around the same time, there was a very special lad running around on the HFF, snagging a few goals.  Can't quite remember his name...

Oh, that's right.  Some no-name bloke called Barrie Vagg...!  LOL

Vagg was great. So were Hassa and Dicko. Gosh those were phantastique footy days.

[Deemania since 56 6,640]

15 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

I agree. Even though we ultimately lost the game, Travis Johnstone’s 3rd quarter against the Crows in 2002 is the best (short) period of football I have ever seen by any player. It was unbelievable. I can’t recall being more excited watching footy as I was at 3/4 time in that game. I couldn’t speak following the final siren though. Was a devastating and ultimately undeserved loss.

 

Travis seemed to be a magician, so often. Yet, after a modest performance (rare) it looked like he was the forgotten man of the Club that was not being looked after as well as he could be. This affected his game, I thought at the time. Then, miraculously he would turn a game, running an entire field down the flanks doing things that 18 other players could not stop. Travis had it all.