POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 22

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

19 minutes ago, tiers said:

Even with Hogan kicking 6, Pederson 3 and winning the ball around the ground, Clarrie gathering possessions and Hibberd cleaning up at the back we beat the bottom side by only 13 points on the way to perhaps play in finals.

I cannot recall one goal scored from team play that could be considered planned - it was mostly a collection of brilliant individual efforts (Petracca, Pederson x2, Hogan), accidents and a measure of good luck. They out ran us, moved the ball well to leading teammates, showed a planned style of play but were ultimately defeated by a poorly performing but overpowering force.

How many forward thrusts have to be embarrassingly squandered and even gifted to the opposition (think Hunt's precise pass to a defender after 2 bounces) before we realise that our game plan is holding us back? Why do all forwards lead back to goal? Where is a double back to secure a safe possession? Why, except for Neal-Bullen to Garlett, were there no deliberate short passes for a shot at the goals in the forward line? Why are our players slow to react and make position and create leading options when we have possession following a switch? Why are our kick ins so predictable? Why do the opposition midfielders read Max's work better than ours? Why do we not build a game plan around Clarrie's incredible ability to win the ball and deliver it at speed - its seems he has to look for attacking targets because we are not offering?

12 wins is a good year but it hurts me that we should have had more and I despair that the lessons of this year might not be absorbed for next year.

Go dees.

 

 

We should grab a beer sometime.

[leave it to deever 16,344]

1 hour ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

In all honesty, wouldn't trade either Macdonald in a thousand years as even Oscar has matured and become pretty reliable of late and if he fully develops into anything like he's brother strength wise will be an absolute machine with an additional 4 or so cm height on Tom and these two playing together will give us a pretty solid KPP bedrock over the next 5 - 8 years along with our other stocks in that area.

I thought it seemed odd. I thought that perhaps you might have hit the turps during the last quarter.

[Ditcha 338]

Good Morning All

Yesterday was a game that last year we would have lost by 5 goals, 2 years ago by 10 goals, and 3 years ago by 15 goals. This shows hor far we have come but there still is more work to be done. Hibberd, Melksham, and Lewis's experience were very good at calming things down. Lets complete the job by beating Collingwood and  make the finals for the first time in 11 years. CARN THE DEMONS. 

[pineapple dee 2,892]

15 hours ago, TRIGON said:

Sad drop in the quality of some of people now in the MCC members. If the person(s) who took my black coat from the front row of Q48  (saving our seats whilst out getting my daughter's MFC member's rewards cards) would have the decency to hand it in to lost property that would be great!

If the MCC's major focus wasn't getting b#ms on seats and beer in glasses, the quality wouldn't have dropped down so low. And whats with the new Long Room ? Frankly, it's terrible !!!

[Deemented Are Go! 3,642]

1 hour ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

My apologies brother Deemented, I was only stirring the pot.  Happy to hear that you are a full member and as I live interstate, I have no doubts you get to mamy more games than I do.  Personally, I do generally like to at least watch most games live on TV, though I missed the GWS game a few weeks back due to work comments (not that missing that game was any great loss).

Perhaps I should have put a few lol's or something into my posts late yesterday,  no one seemed to read things on the lighter side.

All good Balls. After re-reading your post I realised it was light hearted (but yeah a ! Or whatever helps). 

Ive just spent so many years ridiculously having to justify my support for the Dees to other fans, especially during our dark times, that I can get my hackles up when my loyalty is questioned! 

??

[bandicoot 1,395]

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Hard to argue with a lot of that.

Questioning the game plan is valid, at the moment it revolves around running our guts out and always looking to handpass.  It needs to be balanced with kicking and hitting targets, controlling the play and being aware of the game situation.

Correct. Clarksons game style involves precise kicking to spare players. When done well makes the opposition run around like headless chooks. 

We need to implement more of that style to our game 

[poita 3,718]

Unlike some around here I didn't expect to win in a canter, so I'm not disappointed that we struggled to put Brisbane away for three quarters. But to almost give up a 5 goal lead in the space of 10 minutes against the bottom side was really poor. We can't rely on Richmond and Adelaide doing the right thing by us this week - we have to win, and hopefully we don't let it come down to the last 5 minutes again..

We had maybe 6-8 players who played well all day, another 6-8 who made a contribution in patches, and a bunch who didn't come to play at all. That last group includes T.McDonald, Gawn & Garlett who were miles below their best, and Wagner, Stretch & Hannan who need to be replaced before the finals.

There is plenty of room for improvement, but we're leaving it very late. Hopefully we see our best side on the field this week, which includes Watts & Salem, as they are vital for finals.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

1 hour ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Hard to argue with a lot of that.

Questioning the game plan is valid, at the moment it revolves around running our guts out and always looking to handpass.  It needs to be balanced with kicking and hitting targets, controlling the play and being aware of the game situation.

Maybe, but it's a game plan that's won us 12 games and we've been a few kicks away from winning 15.

They will tweak it in the off season, but it's the least of our worries.

[jackaub 1,402]

1 hour ago, tiers said:

Even with Hogan kicking 6, Pederson 3 and winning the ball around the ground, Clarrie gathering possessions and Hibberd cleaning up at the back we beat the bottom side by only 13 points on the way to perhaps play in finals.

I cannot recall one goal scored from team play that could be considered planned - it was mostly a collection of brilliant individual efforts (Petracca, Pederson x2, Hogan), accidents and a measure of good luck. They out ran us, moved the ball well to leading teammates, showed a planned style of play but were ultimately defeated by a poorly performing but overpowering force.

How many forward thrusts have to be embarrassingly squandered and even gifted to the opposition (think Hunt's precise pass to a defender after 2 bounces) before we realise that our game plan is holding us back? Why do all forwards lead back to goal? Where is a double back to secure a safe possession? Why, except for Neal-Bullen to Garlett, were there no deliberate short passes for a shot at the goals in the forward line? Why are our players slow to react and make position and create leading options when we have possession following a switch? Why are our kick ins so predictable? Why do the opposition midfielders read Max's work better than ours? Why do we not build a game plan around Clarrie's incredible ability to win the ball and deliver it at speed - its seems he has to look for attacking targets because we are not offering?

12 wins is a good year but it hurts me that we should have had more and I despair that the lessons of this year might not be absorbed for next year.

Go dees.

 

 

Couldnt  agree more same questions I havebeen asking for a long time

Hopefully we do the Pies and continue good form into finals week

[Demon trucker 1,788]

19 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Flip Flop. No i don't think so

3 Weeks ago Jones was rubbish against Nought, today he played well. That's actually what happened. 

You Satyr are as funny as Arnold J. Rimmer. 

 

You have a short memory, luck you are not the list manager, no one would last past 2 season's, three weeks ago Jones came back from being  6 weeks out, its hard to miss over 4 weeks and be at your straight away he now has match fitness.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

4 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Maybe, but it's a game plan that's won us 12 games and we've been a few kicks away from winning 15.

They will tweak it in the off season, but it's the least of our worries.

We don't need to change the whole game plan to get the players to stop, look, think and then go after taking a mark.

As much as it pains me, the game plan revolves around getting all players back to win the ball but sometimes we play on so quickly we don't give ourselves a chance to get players forward of the ball to kick it to.

We are just asking for a bit of poise and to actually value the benefit that comes from taking a kick after a mark as opposed to being under pressure in general play.

[rjay 24,076]

2 hours ago, tiers said:

I cannot recall one goal scored from team play that could be considered planned - it was mostly a collection of brilliant individual efforts (Petracca, Pederson x2, Hogan), accidents and a measure of good luck.

I would say that the 2 marks Pederson took coming in from the forward pocket and floating across were planned (classic set plays) and one ended up in a goal the other should have.

Hogan's positioning and how we moved the ball to him through their zone is another instance and contributed to the bulk of his 6 goals.

Don't undersell what we are doing and also don't underrate Brisbane. With Beams in, their midfield is as good as any going around at the moment.

 

[Sir Why You Little 35,071]

12 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

You have a short memory, luck you are not the list manager, no one would last past 2 season's, three weeks ago Jones came back from being  6 weeks out, its hard to miss over 4 weeks and be at your straight away he now has match fitness.

My memory is just fine

We lost games to Freo and North and Hawthorn this year at The MCG

Our Leaders are not consistent enough, until they are we will not challenge late in September

[Redleg 38,131]

17 hours ago, bing181 said:

The last game Frost played he was nowhere near it, regardless of his height and pace.

We needed him more than Wagner yesterday. Wouldn't have thought Wagner was anywhere near it yesterday as well.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,588]

11 minutes ago, Redleg said:

We needed him more than Wagner yesterday. Wouldn't have thought Wagner was anywhere near it yesterday as well.

Agree.  I like Wagner for his effort and toughness, but being of limited raw tallent and lacking other weapons like Frosts pace, he does need to bring his A game to keep his spot in the side.  For the past two weeks, he has looked lost and out of place.  His wasted hack kicks in our forward line yesterday were embarrassing.

Replacing Wagner and probably Stretch with any of Salem, Watts or Frost automatically makes us a better side next week.

[tiers 2,785]

In reply to rjay, Pedersen took one of the marks not because of some pre-planned strategy but because he was smart enough to stay off the pack developing around Hogan and he was able to take advantage of the defenders' mistake of focusing too much on Hogan.

It might have seemed like a clever ploy but, unless the player kicking it in was aware of his positioning, which I doubt, it was a case of "kick it to Jesse" and hope. For once, we lucked out.

In any event, there is too much pressure on Hogan to take pack marks when surrounded by multiple defenders and the ball is dropped on his head. The beauty of his game yesterday was that his took his marks while moving and could escape his opponents. Just like David Neitz, his greatest asset is when he is on the move, not while stationary in a pack. Give him space in the forward line to move around and only kick it to him when he is moving will bring out the best of Jesse.

[layzie 29,965]

Just now, tiers said:

In reply to rjay, Pedersen took one of the marks not because of some pre-planned strategy but because he was smart enough to stay off the pack developing around Hogan and he was able to take advantage of the defenders' mistake of focusing too much on Hogan.

It might have seemed like a clever ploy but, unless the player kicking it in was aware of his positioning, which I doubt, it was a case of "kick it to Jesse" and hope. For once, we lucked out.

In any event, there is too much pressure on Hogan to take pack marks when surrounded by multiple defenders and the ball is dropped on his head. The beauty of his game yesterday was that his took his marks while moving and could escape his opponents. Just like David Neitz, his greatest asset is when he is on the move, not while stationary in a pack. Give him space in the forward line to move around and only kick it to him when he is moving will bring out the best of Jesse.

Definitely that off the mark movement which gets him up and about. We looked one dimensional going forward and I really hope we can actually apply some forward pressure next week otherwise if Jesse doesn't mark its coming straight back out again and again.

[Jaded No More 59,386]

I can't handle Vince kicking out. For this reason alone Salem must return!

 

[Jaded No More 59,386]

In a way struggling yesterday gives me a weird sense of confidence against Collingwood. It would have scared the players and they know finals are still on the line because our percentage is not great. 

 

[dieter 3,325]

I've just watched the replay. This was a good win with contributions from all players. Brisbane are a good team at the moment.

The Demons would have lost this in the past but they now know how to win.

Players like Stretch, Wagner, Vince and Garlett who have copped a bit of stick in this thread made contributions when needed. In many ways the style of play on show on Saturday bypassed the likes of Stretch and Garlett simply because in the end, there wasn't a lot of mopping up to be done due to the fact that Hogan and Pedersen were so clean.

I'd still love to see Salem, Watts and Viney in this side...

[tiers 2,785]

One dimensional is correct. A long kick on top of whoever is there, a spoil and the ball comes out nearly as fast as it goes in.

We seem to have no strategy or plan to hold the ball in the forward line so that the crumbing skills of Garlett, Petracca, Neal-Bullen, Hannan, Melksham, Tyson and Jones are wasted.  It's trite to say "lower the eyes" so I won't but the players should be instructed to at at least look for other options when there is time. Neal-Bullen does this so well but he is overlooked in discussions. His pass to Garlett yesterday was exquisite and fruitful. Others should copy.

Just because Hogan and Pedersen were so clean yesterday should not hide the fact that we had many more opportunities to score from entries to the forward line that were wasted in a year when percentage could be important. Better forward entry might have won games against North and Freo this year. We defeat ourselves.

 

[dieter 3,325]

1 hour ago, jackaub said:

Couldnt  agree more same questions I havebeen asking for a long time

Hopefully we do the Pies and continue good form into finals week

Tier's post is a bit lop-sided for mine. It fails to acknowledge how well Brisbane played and it fails to acknowledge that Goodwin and Co do have a game plan, a plan which has seen us win 12 games despite major injury and tribunal setbacks. Also, we should have/ could have beaten Hawthorn, North, Freemantle, Richmond and Geelong...

[Willmoy1947 3,815]

3 hours ago, tiers said:

Even with Hogan kicking 6, Pederson 3 and winning the ball around the ground, Clarrie gathering possessions and Hibberd cleaning up at the back we beat the bottom side by only 13 points on the way to perhaps play in finals.

I cannot recall one goal scored from team play that could be considered planned - it was mostly a collection of brilliant individual efforts (Petracca, Pederson x2, Hogan), accidents and a measure of good luck. They out ran us, moved the ball well to leading teammates, showed a planned style of play but were ultimately defeated by a poorly performing but overpowering force.

How many forward thrusts have to be embarrassingly squandered and even gifted to the opposition (think Hunt's precise pass to a defender after 2 bounces) before we realise that our game plan is holding us back? Why do all forwards lead back to goal? Where is a double back to secure a safe possession? Why, except for Neal-Bullen to Garlett, were there no deliberate short passes for a shot at the goals in the forward line? Why are our players slow to react and make position and create leading options when we have possession following a switch? Why are our kick ins so predictable? Why do the opposition midfielders read Max's work better than ours? Why do we not build a game plan around Clarrie's incredible ability to win the ball and deliver it at speed - its seems he has to look for attacking targets because we are not offering?

12 wins is a good year but it hurts me that we should have had more and I despair that the lessons of this year might not be absorbed for next year.

Go dees.

 

 

VFL said in some paper i think i read, that if you beat MFC your team gets double money in the Trip away Fund. Could have been the Truth.

[loges 6,271]

16 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Well that was T Mac's worst game this year by far.  Can't kick, can't spoil, can't mark, didn't look like he wanted to be out there.

Don't even think he is tradable material on the basis of the game he played today.  Jack Watts has more currency on today's effort.

We were sitting behind the players bench, he came off at least twice complaining of a problem around the knee area.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,588]

14 minutes ago, loges said:

We were sitting behind the players bench, he came off at least twice complaining of a problem around the knee area.

Oh dear, that's not good news that we really want to hear.  Despite my tongue in cheek rant, T Mac is a pretty important player for us when he's up and about.  Even before this season when he has been a revolation up foward, he has been one of the best KP backs in the league for a number of years and I normally value his impact down there.