POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 15

[xarronn 384]

10 minutes ago, Win4theAges said:

I think you missed my point if they'd have kicked straight it would have been 100 pts thanks.

If that's what you meant, then I did. It's this line that threw me "but you think it was an even playing field?"

 

[Lucifers Hero 40,375]

26 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

Agree just listened to him. We have a calm coach who will work hard to get us through this period of injuries and short turn arounds.

One thing he did say was he didn't see the bugg hit until after the game and in hindsight he should have spoken to Bugg about it during the game to help him get is focus back onto the game and dealt with it sooner. 

Last night for the first time I felt the coaches box didn't have their act together. 

1. Your note above that Goodwin didn't re-focus Bugg is a simple mistake for a first year coach.  But the more experienced could have suggested it or done it themselves.  They may not have seen the incident but they couldn't possibly have missed the melee and the fallout. 

2. Last night, Goodwin said he didn't know why Oliver was on the bench for the first 13 minutes.  He said something like: we will need to look at how the rotations work and the coaches don't get too involved. I know its the sports science people that manage rotations etc but I'm surprised the coach(es) aren't across it.  I know a lot of the play was on the other side of the ground but there were lulls in play where they could have made a switch.  The first quarter and therefore the game could well have been different if Oliver had been in the middle to help get the ball into our fwd50. 

Not wishing this to be critical as am a huge fan of Goodwin et al.  Just noting that we had an ordinary night off the field as well as on.  To use a Goodwin's mantra 'they will learn from it'. 

Not our night, I guess.  But we are still in the hunt for September.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,908]

3 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Playing AFL games doesn't equate to AFL standards

No, I think it does actually.  If a player is not to AFL standard, they get found out pretty early and rarely get past half a dozen games.  Pretty much all the players you mentioned (Harmes, ANB, Peddo, Stretch, Melksham, Wagner, Bugg etc) have made solid team contributions on a routine basis this season in a team which is currently sitting 5/6th on the ladder.  Furthermore many of them have made match winning conributions in games.  I think that makes them very much AFL standard players.

If you said they were average to fringe players that were not capable of lifting the team on there own in the absence of too many of our best 22 and a team which was flat/lethargic after 3 X 6 day breaks against the other form side of the comp (& last year's runner up), then fair enough, but that doesn't make them not AFL standard.  Sure when the teams performance is down, it's probably it's lesser players that get most exposed, but what has actually impressed me about the way we have played this year is that we have played such a good team brand of footy and most of those mentioned have been instrumental in thay along with the fact that even our most capable and skilled players have brought into the same team first, team oriented system.  That's the kind of players and team that is going to bring us sucess, not having a team brimming with brilliance.

By your definition, 30%-50% of the players that pull on their boots in AFL games every week are not AFL standard, which seems pretty illogical to me.

[titan_uranus 25,046]

8 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Any comment on Viney, Tyson and Tommy Mac?

Haven't heard anything about TMac.

Viney was on crutches this morning and Tyson couldn't drive his car to recovery. Expecting Viney to miss a block of games, Tyson may well miss a game or more.

2 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Last night for the first time I felt the coaches box didn't have their act together. 

1. Your note above that Goodwin didn't re-focus Bugg is a simple mistake for a first year coach.  But the more experienced could have suggested it or done it themselves.  They may not have seen the incident but they couldn't possibly have missed the melee and the fallout. 

2. Last night, Goodwin said he didn't know why Oliver was on the bench for the first 13 minutes.  He said something like: we will need to look at how the rotations work and the coaches don't get too involved. I know its the sports science people that manage rotations etc but I'm surprised the coach(es) aren't across it.  I know a lot of the play was on the other side of the ground but there were lulls in play where they could have made a switch.  The first quarter and therefore the game could well have been different if Oliver had been in the middle to help get the ball into our fwd50. 

Not wishing this to be critical as am a huge fan of Goodwin et al.  Just noting that we had an ordinary night off the field as well as on.  To use a Goodwin's mantra 'they will learn from it'. 

Not our night, I guess.  But we are still in the hunt for September.

I felt that he was hiding something about the Oliver on the bench issue. Wouldn't be surprised if they were holding him back or something (although 13 minutes is ridiculously long).

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

13 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Last night for the first time I felt the coaches box didn't have their act together. 

1. Your note above that Goodwin didn't re-focus Bugg is a simple mistake for a first year coach.  But the more experienced could have suggested it or done it themselves.  They may not have seen the incident but they couldn't possibly have missed the melee and the fallout. 

2. Last night, Goodwin said he didn't know why Oliver was on the bench for the first 13 minutes.  He said something like: we will need to look at how the rotations work and the coaches don't get too involved. I know its the sports science people that manage rotations etc but I'm surprised the coach(es) aren't across it.  I know a lot of the play was on the other side of the ground but there were lulls in play where they could have made a switch.  The first quarter and therefore the game could well have been different if Oliver had been in the middle to help get the ball into our fwd50. 

Not wishing this to be critical as am a huge fan of Goodwin et al.  Just noting that we had an ordinary night off the field as well as on.  To use a Goodwin's mantra 'they will learn from it'. 

Not our night, I guess.  But we are still in the hunt for September.

I actually think Goodwin and co did that on purpose due to the fact Swans were going to target him. He played dumb with that question from Stevo. It was obvious.

[Coq au vin 755]

19 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Last night for the first time I felt the coaches box didn't have their act together. 

1. Your note above that Goodwin didn't re-focus Bugg is a simple mistake for a first year coach.  But the more experienced could have suggested it or done it themselves.  They may not have seen the incident but they couldn't possibly have missed the melee and the fallout. 

2. Last night, Goodwin said he didn't know why Oliver was on the bench for the first 13 minutes.  He said something like: we will need to look at how the rotations work and the coaches don't get too involved. I know its the sports science people that manage rotations etc but I'm surprised the coach(es) aren't across it.  I know a lot of the play was on the other side of the ground but there were lulls in play where they could have made a switch.  The first quarter and therefore the game could well have been different if Oliver had been in the middle to help get the ball into our fwd50. 

Not wishing this to be critical as am a huge fan of Goodwin et al.  Just noting that we had an ordinary night off the field as well as on.  To use a Goodwin's mantra 'they will learn from it'. 

Not our night, I guess.  But we are still in the hunt for September.

The ball got into the forward fifty quite a bit in the second half but equally quickly rebounded out.

[dees189227 12,429]

Firstly well done to Goody today to speak about to the media today. Im sure he is already sick of answering questions about Bugg. He was on 11.15am: Crunch Time 1116 SEN 12.05pm: @triplemfooty 12.30pm: @ABCAFL.

I heard the crunch time one but missed the other 2. 

Im not as mad as last nights loss as I was with the games against the cats, hawks or nth. 5 years ago if we went into the game without our best players and got dominated the way the swans dominated us in the first 10 minutes we would have lost that game by over 100 points. 

Yes I know if the swans kicked accurately we would have been slaughtered but we tried to hang in there. Unfortunately when Jack went off it just hurst us more. 

But I was impressed with Oscar last night. His marking has got better and I think his kicking has improved. Tom also did well and has obviously been practicising his goal kicking. 

But just a question who will captain our team next week? 

It's time for our older heads to step up. Jordan we got you for leadership and experience so I expect a much better performance next week and also same goes for Bernie. 

also top our backline coach can you please come up with a play so we can get the ball out easily. It has been a problem. 

also it has been mentioned that Zac Jones may be in strife again, anyone see what happened? 

 

 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,908]

14 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

Firstly well done to Goody today to speak about to the media today. Im sure he is already sick of answering questions about Bugg. He was on 11.15am: Crunch Time 1116 SEN 12.05pm: @triplemfooty 12.30pm: @ABCAFL.

I heard the crunch time one but missed the other 2. 

Im not as mad as last nights loss as I was with the games against the cats, hawks or nth. 5 years ago if we went into the game without our best players and got dominated the way the swans dominated us in the first 10 minutes we would have lost that game by over 100 points. 

Yes I know if the swans kicked accurately we would have been slaughtered but we tried to hang in there. Unfortunately when Jack went off it just hurst us more. 

But I was impressed with Oscar last night. His marking has got better and I think his kicking has improved. Tom also did well and has obviously been practicising his goal kicking. 

But just a question who will captain our team next week? 

It's time for our older heads to step up. Jordan we got you for leadership and experience so I expect a much better performance next week and also same goes for Bernie. 

also top our backline coach can you please come up with a play so we can get the ball out easily. It has been a problem. 

also it has been mentioned that Zac Jones may be in strife again, anyone see what happened? 

 

 

The absence of Hunt in the first half and also being down Salem probably hurt our ability to break the ball out of the back half a fair bit last night I felt.

Watts and Hogan are also pretty good link players comming out of our backline, so hopefully getting them back next week should help in this regard.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[BAMF 4,395]

Last nights 22.

FB. Hibberd, OMac, Jetta

HB. Lewis, Frost, Wagner

C.  Bugg, Tyson, Vince

HF. Stretch, Pedo, Petracca

FF. Hannan, TMac, ANB

F.  Gawn, Melkshem, Viney, 

I.  Oliver, Hunt, White, Harmes

 

Rest of the list 22.

FB. Garland, Keilty, J.Smith

HB. Salem, Hulett, McKenna

C.  Brayshaw, Trengove, JKH

HF. Kent, Hogan, Watts

FF. Johnstone, Weiderman, Garlett

F.  Spencer, Jones, vandenBerg

I.  King, Kennedy, T.Smith, Maynard

Emergency: Filipovic

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2017 by BAMF

[rpfc 28,811]

2 hours ago, poita said:

Notwithstanding our injury list and the effects of consecutive short turnarounds, that was a dreadful effort. So many players just can't handle the pressure of the big occasion against quality opposition. I thought our coaches had a poor game as well.

We've had a very good month given some trying circumstances. We have to bounce back with a win against Carlton, otherwise we risk going on a lengthy losing streak. Hopefully we get a few players back and a few guys putting their hands up at Casey today.

White - haven't seen a player so far out of his depth since Isaac Weetra. A career killing performance.

Wagner - typical Wagner game, horrid decision making, terrible disposal and half hearted defensive efforts. Not AFL standard.

Lewis - lazy and complete lacking in leadership. Stays only because there is no depth at Casey

Melksham - aside from one fantastic goal, soft and fumbly. Will always be a liability in big games.

Bugg - there is nothing worse than talking the talk, and failing so pitifully to walk the walk. Enjoy your holiday, hopefully without pay.

Harmes - thought the game would suit, but he was basically invisible. Should have been put in the middle at some point.

Neal-Bullen - he's had his chance, and just not up to it. Time to try someone else.

Stretch - worst game I've seen him play. No appetite for the contest.

Oliver - looked tired and had no effect when the game was in the balance. Has had a great year, so is excused.

Hunt - see Oliver.

Gawn - Sydney were in his head from early on. Soldiered on but had no effect. Should he have played given the short turnaround?

Tyson - indecisive and ineffective.

Vince - continued his steady decline.

Pedersen - no impact. Should have been sent back once he struggled up forward.

Otherwise Viney was our best player, despite only playing half a game. Tom McDonald battled hard. Hannan at least put his body on the line. Petracca's three notable contributions were three more than most of his teammates. Oscar & Frost kept trying despite no midfield support. Hibberd got plenty of football, but didn't use it well. Jetta made some bad errors that almost overshadowed his ample good work.

 

 

So to unpack the tide of neurosis above...

Outs vs Carlton for an 8 and 6 team:

Bugg (Susp.), Viney (inj), White (Career suicide), Wagner (Just Terrible), Melksham (Fumbly Liability), Stretch (Sudden lack of appetite), Neal-Bullen (Sudden 'Not-up-to-it-ness'),

Poss outs:

Harmes (Sudden invisibility), Tyson (Suddenly ineffective), Vince (Steady Decline), Pedersen (Sudden Impactlessness)

INS?

Every MFC listed player playing for Casey?

 

We are 8 and 6. After three of our finest wins since the Daniher years.

Eating everyone alive for failing to deliver against a great team without 6 of our best 12 players is not helpful, and if I read Goodwin correctly, it isn't going to happen.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

We can't tackle players who stand still and do little shimmies because we over commit to the tackle.

At the same time we don't get around players because we are too predictable with our movements.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Clint Bizkit

[Mr Steve 3,820]

1 hour ago, xarronn said:

I think you missed my point if they'd have kicked straight it would have been 100 pts thanks.

Long as you understand that "IF" has won the past 50 grand finals. 

[Mr Steve 3,820]

It was just one of those games no one will get dropped only replace the Injuries. These games happen.

[jnrmac 20,189]

We played poorly and were tired but:

The umpiring was a disgrace and the Swans got away all night with dropping the ball out of tackles with no penalty. Some absolute howlers.

Shocking decision against Melksham on the wing. A one on one contest and he gets pinged for shepherding. FMD. Disgraceful decision. Buddy can do a 720 degree turn with a demon hanging on - play on. Another one Lewis got pinged for a trip.

Despite all that garbage had Harmes kicked the goal at the start of the 3rd quarter we were well in the game. Sure the Swans kicked poorly but I have seen too much of Harmes doing that stuff at critical times.

As for Wagner I have never been a fan. His kicking is bad and he tirns it over way too often. Not enough smarts in his game.

White was just diabolical. Turned it over with his first four kicks from memory. I know he would have been nervous but as a prevous poster had said everything that was said about Strauss has been said about White and the result looks the same. No inkling of a 'lethal' left foot and really poor decision making.

Finally the coaching. I reckon they have done a great job this year but last night theyh were really poor. The Hunt fwd experiment didn't work. Parker and Jones ran rampant. McVeigh slotted straight back in and controlled the backline. The number of marks in their fwd 50 was embarrasing.

For 3 quarters they started with 3 extra players in defence and had them running through the mddle as we have done many times this year. It clearly wasn't working and as the commentators on MMM said, it is exhausting to do that all night. On a 6 day break back from Perth the players were cooked. When we went with a 6,6,6 set up in the last we actually looked better.

All in all. A poor night but with some valid excuses and it hasn't derailed a reasonable season.

How we bounce back is the key to where we go this year.

[dimmy 1,308]

1 hour ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

No, I think it does actually.  If a player is not to AFL standard, they get found out pretty early and rarely get past half a dozen games.  Pretty much all the players you mentioned (Harmes, ANB, Peddo, Stretch, Melksham, Wagner, Bugg etc) have made solid team contributions on a routine basis this season in a team which is currently sitting 5/6th on the ladder.  Furthermore many of them have made match winning conributions in games.  I think that makes them very much AFL standard players.

If you said they were average to fringe players that were not capable of lifting the team on there own in the absence of too many of our best 22 and a team which was flat/lethargic after 3 X 6 day breaks against the other form side of the comp (& last year's runner up), then fair enough, but that doesn't make them not AFL standard.  Sure when the teams performance is down, it's probably it's lesser players that get most exposed, but what has actually impressed me about the way we have played this year is that we have played such a good team brand of footy and most of those mentioned have been instrumental in thay along with the fact that even our most capable and skilled players have brought into the same team first, team oriented system.  That's the kind of players and team that is going to bring us sucess, not having a team brimming with brilliance.

By your definition, 30%-50% of the players that pull on their boots in AFL games every week are not AFL standard, which seems pretty illogical to me.

I agree wholheartedly and the rest of your post highlights that these players need to perform at their very very best (at the moment) for them to be match leaders. When you put them up against  TMac., petracca, Watts, Salem  Viney etc who have that little bit of extra class , they are the icing one the cake and sometimes the icing is the best part of the cake like last week against WC (because i thought our "Lesser lights" were terrific last week but it was a bit much to realistically expect then to front up next week for a blinder. Hopefully that will come with development and I think our Development and Coaching is in very good hands indeed.

[jnrmac 20,189]

2 hours ago, poita said:

Otherwise Viney was our best player, despite only playing half a game. Tom McDonald battled hard. Hannan at least put his body on the line. Petracca's three notable contributions were three more than most of his teammates. Oscar & Frost kept trying despite no midfield support. Hibberd got plenty of football, but didn't use it well. Jetta made some bad errors that almost overshadowed his ample good work.

 

 

Jetta was by far our best under trying circumstances.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,908]

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

The second quarter was the "annihilation".

After half time it wasn't that bad, not that we ever really looked like getting back into it.

I don't know how you can conclude that it was a "dreadful effort" despite the injuries and the short turnarounds.

It seems obvious to most, if not all, that we were cooked from the start. It's therefore not surprising that we were second to contests and our general enthusiasm and "zip" were missing.

As to "big occasions", we led Richmond for 3.5 quarters in front of 85,000 and only lost because of injuries, and we beat Collingwood in a tense game in front of 70,000. 

As to "quality opposition", we've beaten Adelaide in Adelaide, West Coast in Perth and the Dogs at Etihad. 

Let's not re-write the season based on one poor performance.

I laugh every time I watch AFL 360 with Jack Reiwalt when he's enevitably defending Richmonds record in close games he often refers back to beating us earlier this year.  After loosing two players including a ruckman in the first quarter of the game, I actually think it's amazing we were still in that game well into the last quarter, particularly given I don't recall Pederson playing, such that Jack Watts rucked for most of the game for pretty much the second week running also depriving us of a key forward in a team already without Hogan.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

1 hour ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

No, I think it does actually.  If a player is not to AFL standard, they get found out pretty early and rarely get past half a dozen games.  Pretty much all the players you mentioned (Harmes, ANB, Peddo, Stretch, Melksham, Wagner, Bugg etc) have made solid team contributions on a routine basis this season in a team which is currently sitting 5/6th on the ladder.  Furthermore many of them have made match winning conributions in games.  I think that makes them very much AFL standard players.

If you said they were average to fringe players that were not capable of lifting the team on there own in the absence of too many of our best 22 and a team which was flat/lethargic after 3 X 6 day breaks against the other form side of the comp (& last year's runner up), then fair enough, but that doesn't make them not AFL standard.  Sure when the teams performance is down, it's probably it's lesser players that get most exposed, but what has actually impressed me about the way we have played this year is that we have played such a good team brand of footy and most of those mentioned have been instrumental in thay along with the fact that even our most capable and skilled players have brought into the same team first, team oriented system.  That's the kind of players and team that is going to bring us sucess, not having a team brimming with brilliance.

By your definition, 30%-50% of the players that pull on their boots in AFL games every week are not AFL standard, which seems pretty illogical to me.

Listen, Balls, all I'm saying is that some of those players on the park are not as good as the personnel we had sitting in the stands...it was a bad loss and I think some of those selections are indefensible

Anyhoo, I'm done

[gregdemon 624]

16 hours ago, Demonland said:

Can we play on Thursday night next week?

its amazing we are not.     Screwed by fixture  major reason for the injuries.  I could not care less about last night loss given circumstances..   its just those bloody injuries.    Every time we get some blue sky ahead something goes wrong. Not blaming the players or the club  just always  bad bloody luck.    Off to the west gate bridge 

[xarronn 384]

55 minutes ago, Mr Steve said:

Long as you understand that "IF" has won the past 50 grand finals. 

Do me a favour Mr Steve, go back and read my post,  I didn't say this  - "I think you missed my point if they'd have kicked straight it would have been 100 points".

How did you manage to attribute it to me?

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,908]

1 hour ago, jumbo returns said:

Listen, Balls, all I'm saying is that some of those players on the park are not as good as the personnel we had sitting in the stands...it was a bad loss and I think some of those selections are indefensible

Anyhoo, I'm done

Jimbo, agree with you 100% on the blod above, but that's quite different from your original statements.

Also agree with your last statement above and agree to disagree and move on.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,098]

It's very clear that Sydney came in with a plan to target Gawn at every opportunity.  It's already been mentioned that he was kneed in the bollocks during a boundary throw-in.  On another occasion he was flattened three times trying to get back to the centre to take the bounce after a goal, the final one shaking him enough that he went off for a spell.  The umpires did absolutely nothing to curb this behaviour, nor the scragging of our ball-winners around the packs.  Once the Swans' midfield saw that they weren't going to get pulled up they went nuts trying to beat the hell out of our mids. 

There is also the high hit on Mitch Hannan, again not even a free kick paid when he staggered away from the impact and collapsed. 

I do have to wonder if the umpires' refusal to pull them up early in the game led to the Swans players increasing their level of aggression.  Maybe worth the club hitting up AFL house for an explanation? 

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

18 hours ago, McQueen said:

Viney confirmed Plantar Fascia.

Great... a month at least.

Really? Ive had that, its awful. Can take a while to fix.

[McQueen 17,867]

Bit of talk about now in the Casey thread - sounds like 4 is gonna be around the mark.

ive had it too... very frustrating injury.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,098]

18 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

Really? Ive had that, its awful. Can take a while to fix.

 

11 minutes ago, McQueen said:

Bit of talk about now in the Casey thread - sounds like 4 is gonna be around the mark.

ive had it too... very frustrating injury.

Not 4-6 weeks?