The bye before finals

[jnrmac 19,908]

The Dogs won the flag from 7th last year. They were not the best team of the year but they were the best team in September when it counted. They can be a good side but I do think their list has been somewhat over-rated.

I also think that they were a beneficiary of a major change to fixturing that has IMO been relatively glossed over. There was very little comment last year because the media and the AFL in general were thrilled that the Dogs had broken their premiership drought.

The bye after rd 23 has removed the major advantage for teams to finish in the top 4. Last year the two teams from the top 4 that had a week's rest before the preliminary final lost the PF. The Dogs had a run of injuries but the bye after rd 23 certainly helped them with the injuries they had. One season is perhaps to early to call as being definitive but surely it cant be concidence that the two preliminary finalists that effectively played 1 game in a month lost the PF?

Certainly teams will now believe they can win a flag from anywhere in the top 8 and that is probably good for football. The top teams will still have the advantage of home ground but that is about it.

What do people think about the bye? Has the advantage of top 4 been too much in the past? Is it too early to tell?

 

[Chook 14,998]

I think clubs just underestimated the effect of the bye + week off for the winners of the QF. This year I expect things will go back to normal. A week off is massive. Two weeks off at the end of a long hard season is even better if managed right. It would make or break us as a young team that will probably struggle to run out the year, let alone any finals we might have.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I love the bye, the Brownlow should be on the Monday of that week.

[Diamond_Jim 12,371]

From a spectator viewpoint I dislike the bye ... a complete halt to the momentum of the season

If it were the Dees that got the benefit of the bye then that is different.

Will be interesting if another sport does something on the bye weekend as it is a spot waiting to be grabbed.

For example Storm are presently on top of the NRL ladder and could easily be playing at home that weekend. If the AFL did not control docklands one could see a very large crowd for such a game.

Perhaps horse racing (including interstate racing) could do something with it also

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,283]

I don't really like it. But if it helps our younger guys (plus the oldies), then that is great.

I think if your a top 4 side who wins week one you should really look at how you train that week off.

I'd probably go down the path of doing a high intensity training session a week before or something like that.

It just seems being match hardened can be a big benefit.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

Big "IF" here ... that we end up in the 8 .... but at the rate we're accumulating nagging injuries (Tracc, Hunt, Watts, Jones, Nev, Vince spring to mind immediately), a pre-finals bye might come at just the right time for us.

[Gorgoroth 12,712]

Terrible if you finish top 4 and win first game and then Have a second week off. 

Typical dumb idea by the AFL that they will stick by cos they are flogs.

[leave it to deever 17,488]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

Certainly teams will now believe they can win a flag from anywhere in the top 8 and that is probably good for football. The top teams will still have the advantage of home ground but that is about it.

Maybe now the belief factor will help: the old " It cant be done because its never been done" 

Like the 4 minute mile. After it was broken it was smashed.

I concur with Diamonds view of:

"From a spectator viewpoint I dislike the bye ... a complete halt to the momentum of the season

If it were the Dees that got the benefit of the bye then that is different."

 

 

[rjay 24,616]

Let's put it this way...

My opinion of the current system is I hope we finish 5th this year.

[monoccular 17,340]

Dropping both byes would enable the "draw" to be not so badly compromised, and fairer to all clubs, (25 rounds) so I guess it is pretty certain that it will not happen.

Clubs will just have to learn to manage their lists better - the pre finals bye was as much as a typical AFL HQ knee jerk reaction to a single event (Freo / Lyon's flawed misjudgement resting of too many players on finals eve) as was the "rushed behind" fiasco a reaction to a single GF event.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by monoccular

[Skuit 9,972]

I don't like the pre-finals bye but it's the in-finals bye that has always agitated me (as well as the staggered in-season bye). Positive, negative, whatever - we shouldn't even have to debate the effect. Creating any sporting imbalance is ridiculous for a sport that prides itself on equalisation measures - as is, from a marketing and consumer perspective, having your season's best performing teams sit out a week of your showcase finals' series.

[brendan 3,432]

What I don't understand is why have a floating fixture for round 23 when there is a bye the week after, I guess so they can fixture in the best games in the best time slots to maximize $$$, I thought the idea of the floating fixture was so no finals sides play Sunday they might as well just lock it in

[jnrmac 19,908]

9 minutes ago, brendan said:

What I don't understand is why have a floating fixture for round 23 when there is a bye the week after, I guess so they can fixture in the best games in the best time slots to maximize $$$, I thought the idea of the floating fixture was so no finals sides play Sunday they might as well just lock it in

You are right. that was the intention but of course like most things AFL they change the rules on the fly and they don't think of the consequences. Kind of what I was alluding to in the OP. They changed the rules without thinking things through and we got an abnormal result. It may be just that - abnormal - and this year teams will manage it better.

It did make for a better finals series as teams weren't half dead just trying to make finals.

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by jnrmac

[deespicable me 1,467]

I liked it last year and thought it made for a great Finals series and I hope they stick with it.

There were massive crowds at training sessions which is a great initiative for getting fans close to the stars. 

The build up to the first week of finals was really exciting and the crowds at the first week of finals were records. And good games right through the finals were fantastic, I had mates who barracked for Dogs and they had the best 4 weeks of their life, even travelling to Sydney for the GWS game.

I'd love for Dees to be alive in September and to be alive for an extra week certainly won't mean I'll lose interest. And I didn't last year. I'll go to training and enjoy the build up. Along with Dreamtime, MND big freeze, Pink day, Anzac day and Womens footy etc we are the envy of every other sporting code in Australia for crowd numbers and engagement. The league do a lot wrong but I think this is one of their better ideas.

[McQueen 17,864]

Everyone seems to be forgetting about why it's there in the first place.

Brad Scott.

[—coach— 3,496]

I have work the weekend of the bye, but am free for the first weekend of the finals. So I like it this year, may hate it next year ?

[At the break of Gawn 4,421]

Most teams come off the bye pretty rusty. Melbourne a good case in point for the first half against the Pies. Don't think it'll do us any favours if we make the finals.

[Jaded No More 67,843]

4 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Most teams come off the bye pretty rusty. Melbourne a good case in point for the first half against the Pies. Don't think it'll do us any favours if we make the finals.

But since everyone gets that bye leading into the finals, it's irrelevant. 

[Wrecker45 3,378]

Watch us finish top 4 this year and suffer from it. The rule changes have dogged us since they changed the ruck's ability to take a run-up and Jeff White lost his dominance.

We finally get the no 3rd man up rule that should benefit us with the AA ruckman and we lose both him and Spencer the alternative.

[daisycutter 29,343]

2 weeks off in finals was common when we had a final 4. don't remember any complaints about it being a negative then.

....and yes any perceived benefit/liability last year was purely coincidental

[brendan 3,432]

17 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Most teams come off the bye pretty rusty. Melbourne a good case in point for the first half against the Pies. Don't think it'll do us any favours if we make the finals.

If we are not switched on for our 1st final in 11 years from the 1st bounce then we might as well give up now 

[Uncle Fester 2,843]

Like any rule change the smart teams will adapt and use it to their advantage, and the rest will play catch up. I'd like to think we have the nous to use it to our advantage.

[deelete my account 1,194]

Hang on, the two teams that lost the preliminary final were clubs that hadn't made the finals the year earlier and were not bulletproof. One of which were a Geelong side down by 6 goals at 3/4 in round 23 v Richmond, who only beat Fitzy's long bomb goaled top 4 Hawthorn because of Isaac Smiths over-confidence and then played their bogey team (Sydney) who smashed them at Simmonds stadium a month earlier.

Even GWS were one kick away (or a mark encroachment 50m penalty and 10 incorrect disposal calls) from ruining your tiny sample size conclusion. You could even say that GWS had the benefit of playing Sydney who are often spooked by GWS, in the QF. A few weeks earlier they lost at home to WCE and had shown signs of inexperience in close matches. They were also lucky to have had Adelaide drop a match and let them into the 4. 

Need a bigger sample size to assume the bye affected their preliminary final matches, and they weren't just coming up against superior opposition.

Edited June 20, 2017 by DominatrixTyson

[In Harmes Way 7,712]

Knowing how our 4-6 week injuries play out, I reckon the bye will help Chunk get back into the team for week 1 of finals...

 

[tiers 2,810]

In October last year I wrote the following. It still has merit.

The bye and the chance for a rest and refresh for the players offers the prospect of a finals season, distinct from the H & A season and a finals series. The eight clubs are divided into 2 groups 1,3,5,7 and 2,4,6,8 and play a round robin series to determine ladder positions. The top two play off in the grand final.

Finishing 1 and 2 or top 4 loses its appeal for the teams. The argument the WB benefited from the bye is correct - but don't we want the best teams to win, not just the team with least injuries at the start of the finals. Injuries can occur in the finals that will test team lists but at least they could all start even.

The trade off is enhanced interest in round 23 and four matches a week for the three weeks of the finals where just winning is not enough, it's the margin of victory and its affect on percentage that counts as well. Every score could have a bearing. I would also have all four matches in the third week played at the same time so that teams can't game the system. The broadcasters would have the challenge to cover all four matches simultaneously using "round the grounds" images and reports. What a dynamic and exciting day of footy. The grand final would then be the ultimate match of the season.

Brownlow, rising star, MVP, coaches and all other awards to be held in "awards week", an event in itself with daily functions with the Brownlow as the climax. What a celebration of footy. And then the finals season.

Why not?