Changes for Round 2 v Carlton

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I might be one of the only ones, but I thought Bugg played well in JLT and was unlucky to miss out. Not sure Goody loves him, but he'd fill much of the hole Smith has left. If not him, Wagner or Frost if fit... and TBH, Tyson has to play, so someone might be unlucky and miss. Say a Weed, Watts type

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

7 hours ago, Males said:

I honestly can't understand why Omac cops so much crap on these forums? Does he make mistakes? Yes, but he's a key position player with only 18 games under his belt, mistakes are going to happen.

If you look at Supercoach points, he was actually our highest ranked back 6 player. I agree that sometimes his mistakes are frustrating, but no more than Tmac, Vince or Petraaca.

 

2 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

o mac is not going to be dropped.

he gets to and impacts the contest.

he's tracking as well as his brother was at the same level of age and experience, if not better.

 

Asked and answered.

 

TMac was roundly lambasted his first 50 games. So was Gawn in his first few. Glass half empty supporters saw both guys' mistakes only, and missed the positives. Glass half full supporters saw TMac take on the game, his pace and awesome spoiling 1 on 1. With Gawn his desperation, contested marking and surprisingly good work below his knees. Go forward a few years, and they're awesome players. Still with the same strengths and weaknesses.

Doesn't stop the nay sayers whining about TMac of course. Just ignore them. Everyone else does.

[Little Goffy 14,545]

5 hours ago, ProDee said:

I noticed one significant weakness with Silvagni and wonder who else picked it up ?

Well, others have noticed a lack of speed. But Carlton supporters will tell you he's got a maddening lack of interest in defensive running and working to lock the ball up forward.

He could be very dangerous even still as a kid, he's got a footy brain no doubt about it. We need to respect that while also exploiting his weakness all we can. Maybe try to match Hunt up on him early, force him to decide whether he wants to get into chases he knows he can't win.

It's a pattern across their forward line - they actually managed to get a mark up there every third time the ball came in, they have a mix of players capable of grabbing it. But I'd argue that Silvagni, Kreuzer, Casboult, Weitering, Wright or Curnow are not very good at applying pressure in the forward line. In their game against Richmond you could see over and over again groups of three or four Richmond players being able to form up and control a contest, running off with it while Blues were still arriving.

Looking to exploit the Carlton forward line's lack of speed and defensive energy brings us to the issue at the other end of the ground. Rowe, Marchbank and Plowman are adequate tall defenders, but the Blue's defensive system just got cracked open and confused when the play came surging back across the ground at them. Their 4 taller defenders had 40 1%ers between them, but that can only go so far, as we saw ourselves with Oscar's all-too-visible failures to decisively kill attacks and get the ball clear. Put that together with Melbourne's creative and cooperative forward/half-forward mix, and there's a potential bloodbath.

The Carlton first-choice midfield is a genuine danger, but it drops away. People constantly underestimate Murphy and Gibbs, Curnow is handy, in-form Kruezer is a genuine weapon, and Cripps' down day against Richmond isn't something you'd want to bank on. But where we have option after option to call on as clearance and contested ball winners, Murphy and Gibbs shared close to 1/4 of Carlton's contested possessions against Richmond. If the Demons are to win the midfield and clearances battle, then it will be because of sheer weight of capable effort, rather than any special superiority - for all the legitimate Oliver hype, we still don't have any inside mids with the capacity to move the ball from the contest with the poise and penetration that Murphy and Gibbs have.

Right, now that I've got that out, I reckon we can take 'em.

 

 

 

 

[dee-tox 4,835]

The problem with Oscar is that opposition teams will start targeting him as easily the weakest link in the backline. Goodwin alluded to it in his press conference. With most teams playing a version of zone defence, all they need to do is kick it in Omac's vicinity and let his lack of one-on-one skills go to work. Not ideal.

[pitmaster 3,552]

19 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Flying down Saturday, can't wait.

2 & 0 to start the season.

You have a short memory. Take nothing for granted.

As for selection, Oscar is clearly going nowhere. He is a work in progress, like the Weed.

Gawn will be fine. Back spasms? The physios will take care of them.

The only out, unless there's a mishap at training, will be Smith who was very unlucky and another victim of the hard boundary surface at that rotten stadium.

[bing181 9,237]

Oscar McDonald: You see what you want to see. He will line up every game this year unless injured/unavailable.

Meanwhile ...

Tyson for Smith. Kent is best 22, but hard to see who you could drop - unless there's something specific in matchups.

[ex52k2 238]

Wasn't it Riewoldt involved in the dislocating of Smiths shoulder on the boundry line? I seem to remember it was also Riewoldt involved in TMac shoulder in the opposite pocket on the boundry line a couple of years ago. Isnt karma a [censored].[a  female  dog]

Edited March 26, 2017 by ex52k2
misspealing

[bandicoot 1,395]

13 hours ago, Males said:

I honestly can't understand why Omac cops so much crap on these forums? Does he make mistakes? Yes, but he's a key position player with only 18 games under his belt, mistakes are going to happen.

If you look at Supercoach points, he was actually our highest ranked back 6 player. I agree that sometimes his mistakes are frustrating, but no more than Tmac, Vince or Petraaca.

The issue is that he turns the ball over with basic errors and that costs goals.

you need split second decision making skills down back (especially at etihad) 

it sometimes looks like he is a dear stuck in headlights.

[Wells 11 5,401]

43 minutes ago, bandicoot said:

The issue is that he turns the ball over with basic errors and that costs goals.

you need split second decision making skills down back (especially at etihad) 

it sometimes looks like he is a dear stuck in headlights.

 He reminds me of a young Jack Watts to be honest. Not re the decision making ( which Watts always excelled in) but more so the sense of physical uncertainty he projects on the field  Yet he also does do a lot of things well. The trouble with replacing him is that Frost, Garland and Smith are all now unavailable so I don't see we have a great deal of choice. 

My heart went  into my mouth every time I saw him in a one on one......and, as others have said,  for now at least he is  definitely one of our weak links. Its the simple errors that he makes ...dropped chest marks, kicks under no pressure that go over the head of someone 20 meters away... that make him an occasional liability. But he IS young and developing and I just think we have to bite the bullet, keep putting time into him and maybe I'll try to  remember to take deep breaths when he has the ball! 

[Roger Mellie 4,025]

5 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

 

Right, now that I've got that out, I reckon we can take 'em.

Plus we need to factor in our atrocious tendency to take teams like Carlton lightly, irrespective of our abysmal recent playing record. God I hope Goodwin puts an end to that.

[Webber 10,468]

9 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

o mac is not going to be dropped.

he gets to and impacts the contest.

he's tracking as well as his brother was at the same level of age and experience, if not better.

Easy there, DemonAndrew, you risk letting sense and reality get in the way of a good old Demonland whipping boy frenzy. 

[jackaub 1,402]

Bumped into Spencer on the concourse at Etihard (Ouch that Hurt)

Asked him about next week He smiled and said he hoped to be in the mix after a good showing at Casey

He looks really fit at the moment>

[Lucifers Hero 39,808]

4 hours ago, dee-tox said:

The problem with Oscar is that opposition teams will start targeting him as easily the weakest link in the backline. Goodwin alluded to it in his press conference. With most teams playing a version of zone defence, all they need to do is kick it in Omac's vicinity and let his lack of one-on-one skills go to work. Not ideal.

Correct. 

Goodwin said the Saints 'isolated Oscar'.  He had a wry smile which suggested it was good experience for the young lad and let him deal with it as best he could.  Big learning experience for Oscar.

It wasn't ideal as it meant we couldn't get a third player to the contest quickly enough to help Oscar which at this stage he still needs. 

He is not Talia or Rance and may never be but he will get to the stage where he can win the contest in his own right when 'isolated' by the opposition.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Lucifer's Hero

[Cards13 9,117]

9 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

o mac is not going to be dropped.

he gets to and impacts the contest.

he's tracking as well as his brother was at the same level of age and experience, if not better.

Some times he does, sometimes he doesn't or the Reiwoldt over the back goal where OMc left Roo to spoil but missed everything. Nice intent, not a great out come.

As others have said his pace looks just a bit off, and for mine he really slows down when he has ball in hand. 

He won't be dropped, unless he does have a real stinker as he is the future.

[Lucifers Hero 39,808]

11 minutes ago, Webber said:

Easy there, DemonAndrew, you risk letting sense and reality get in the way of a good old Demonland whipping boy frenzy. 

Agreed.  I look forward to the day when DL drops the need for a 'whipping boy', especially of kids in their first few years. 

While some posters enjoy potting players it gets tedious. 

And I can hear those posters say 'don't read it'.  Its hard to avoid a sniping comment when it is slipped into the middle of an otherwise interesting post about the games.

[DemonLad5 1,642]

Saints had Nathan Wright trying to nullify Jayden Hunt. He did a decent job, Hunt still having a bit of an influence. Carlton don't have a defensive forward capable. Hoping Jayden will have a field day

[old dee 23,791]

8 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Agreed.  I look forward to the day when DL drops the need for a 'whipping boy', especially of kids in their first few years. 

While some posters enjoy potting players it gets tedious. 

And I can hear those posters say 'don't read it'.  Its hard to avoid a sniping comment when it is slipped into the middle of an otherwise interesting post about the games.

Don't hold your breath LH it is the nature of the beast.

Has gone on  since Adam played full back for Jerusalem

[Grimes Times 1,278]

19 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Correct. 

Goodwin said the Saints 'isolated Oscar'.  He had a wry smile which suggested it was good experience for the young lad and let him deal with it as best he could.  Big learning experience for Oscar.

It wasn't ideal as it meant we couldn't get a third player to the contest quickly enough to help Oscar which at this stage is still needs. 

He is not Talia or Rance and may never be but he will get to the stage where he can win the contest in his own right when 'isolated' by the opposition.

OMac is a long way off them but even Rance was beaten by Weaitering in couple of one-on-one contest last Thursday night. It happens to backman. You cant win them all.,

[poita 3,902]

Out: Smith (inj), Melksham

In: Tyson, Frost / Bugg

[Lucifers Hero 39,808]

9 minutes ago, old dee said:

Don't hold your breath LH it is the nature of the beast.

Has gone on  since Adam played full back for Jerusalem

I nearly put that rider into my post.

od, I just knew you would be the first to say that

[rpfc 28,430]

13 hours ago, ProDee said:

The best way to make Oscar better is to keep playing him.  He'll be far better with 60 AFL games under his belt. 

That said, he does make inexplicable mistakes.  My main query is his lack of pace.  But I have no doubt he'll be better when he's stronger.  

Goody and Macca really rate him, so I don't think they'll be dropping him any time soon. 

He lumbers for sure but it is not his foot speed that is the cause of his issues; it is the lack of quickness and decisiveness in his decision making.

He dwells on the ball, he doesn't seem to give himself in to the ethos of the team at the moment; give the ball as quick as you can to a red and blue jumper until you get into some space to kick the footy.

I would prefer he make mistakes with instinctual handballs than the glacial three steps he seems to plod once he gets the footy...

But, yes, he is showing enough to be persevered with.

[old dee 23,791]

16 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I nearly put that rider into my post.

od, I just knew you would be the first to say that

Glad I did not disappoint you LH.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

10 hours ago, DemonAndrew said:

o mac is not going to be dropped.

True, but he was putrid.

Frost is a much better option although no reason they both can't be in the same team.

[Dante 2,739]

8 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

I might be one of the only ones, but I thought Bugg played well in JLT and was unlucky to miss out. Not sure Goody loves him, but he'd fill much of the hole Smith has left. If not him, Wagner or Frost if fit... and TBH, Tyson has to play, so someone might be unlucky and miss. Say a Weed, Watts type

When Max went off for 10 minutes Jack proved to be invaluable and I doubt they will leave him out of the side, the rest of his game was solid and apart from a couple of grabs he should have taken, in packs, he was good. Jack does a lot of little things that lead to scores because he doesn't panic when he has the ball and as Roos said in the commentary, he has "elite decision making".

[jnrmac 20,065]

16 hours ago, Males said:

I honestly can't understand why Omac cops so much crap on these forums? Does he make mistakes? Yes, but he's a key position player with only 18 games under his belt, mistakes are going to happen.

If you look at Supercoach points, he was actually our highest ranked back 6 player. I agree that sometimes his mistakes are frustrating, but no more than Tmac, Vince or Petraaca.

Wow where to begin with this.

Yep some of our young players make mistakes but they more than make up for it with scintillating play elsewhere, Not so OMac.

Using DT or supercoach points is seriously the worst way to compare players. Even using regular stats is poor. I just compared Daniel Talia to OMac and OMAc compares very favourably in stats terms. But there isn't one person on here that would take OMac over Talia.

OMac may well become a very good footballer. Personally I doubt it. Yes he has played 18 games but he has deep flaws that are difficult if not impossible to overcome. He has worse intensity than Watts at his worst and that is saying something.

Give me Keilty over OMac. Can't be any worse. Let OMac develop properly in the 2's.....